The walls are melting!
October 5, 2005 7:09 PM Subscribe
The International LSD Symposium is being held on the 100th birthday of Albert Hofmann, the first person to synthesize and dose themselves with the substance. Along with being held in the town in which it was discovered, the convention will cover topics ranging from the counterculture movements of the 60's to the LSD policies of Soviet-era Eastern Europe. Some believe that when taken correctly, LSD can be used as a form of therapy, while others contend that it induces psychosis. Whatever the reality, LSD has had a profound impact upon drug users, mainstream society and even the CIA.
The symposium should be twelve hours long, and eight hours into it you should want to leave and go to sleep, but be unable to.
posted by afroblanca at 8:27 PM on October 5, 2005
posted by afroblanca at 8:27 PM on October 5, 2005
Kablam: what lsd are you on when you write this drivel?
It doesn't have any strychnine in it that's for sure.
Dumbest urban legend ever.
posted by lalochezia at 8:56 PM on October 5, 2005
It doesn't have any strychnine in it that's for sure.
Dumbest urban legend ever.
posted by lalochezia at 8:56 PM on October 5, 2005
You just know that 3/4 of the people at the symposium are going to be DEA agents, mostly there to gather info on any Americans among the other 25%...
posted by clevershark at 9:15 PM on October 5, 2005
posted by clevershark at 9:15 PM on October 5, 2005
Is it strange that I can actually taste this article?
posted by Balisong at 9:18 PM on October 5, 2005
posted by Balisong at 9:18 PM on October 5, 2005
This article spoke to me. No, I mean, it really spoke to me!
posted by clevershark at 9:26 PM on October 5, 2005
posted by clevershark at 9:26 PM on October 5, 2005
and here's Tom - with the weather.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 10:17 PM on October 5, 2005
posted by Samuel Farrow at 10:17 PM on October 5, 2005
good timing, my husband and I were just discussing the strychnine thing over the weekend. Oddly, at age 31 and 10+ years past my last dose, it was the first time it ever occurred to me that it was an urban legend. I guess drugs do make you dumb, after all.
posted by miss tea at 4:37 AM on October 6, 2005
posted by miss tea at 4:37 AM on October 6, 2005
For anyone interested in the history of LSD and other psychedelics, and their influence on society, I recommend the book Storming Heaven by Jay Stevens.
The symposium announcement doesn't appear to mention it, but Dr. Hofmann is still living. I wonder if he plans to attend. Hofmann also worked out the synthesis of psilocybin at Sandoz.
posted by wadefranklin at 5:59 AM on October 6, 2005
The symposium announcement doesn't appear to mention it, but Dr. Hofmann is still living. I wonder if he plans to attend. Hofmann also worked out the synthesis of psilocybin at Sandoz.
posted by wadefranklin at 5:59 AM on October 6, 2005
Anybody here read the book Acid Dreams and know how much is fact and how much is bullshit? There's a lot of stuff in there that is uncited but seems plausible.
posted by afroblanca at 6:56 AM on October 6, 2005
posted by afroblanca at 6:56 AM on October 6, 2005
I really never gave it much thought. In every trip ... somewhere in hour two someone would mention the purity of the blotter. Usually everyone would have about the same symptoms and therefore we would agree that it either had a lot of strychnine or it didn't. Strychnine was considered just part of it, much the as you have good coke and stepped on coke. Some days are better than others. This was all back in the day. My drug days are long past but the one drug that I have no regets in using was LSD. You kinda have to be there.
posted by shockingbluamp at 8:45 AM on October 6, 2005
posted by shockingbluamp at 8:45 AM on October 6, 2005
I really never gave it much thought. In every trip ... somewhere in hour two someone would mention the purity of the blotter. Usually everyone would have about the same symptoms and therefore we would agree that it either had a lot of strychnine or it didn't. Strychnine was considered just part of it, much the as you have good coke and stepped on coke. Some days are better than others. This was all back in the day. My drug days are long past but the one drug that I have no regets in using was LSD. You kinda have to be there.
posted by shockingbluamp at 8:45 AM on October 6, 2005
posted by shockingbluamp at 8:45 AM on October 6, 2005
I always found that it was microdots that gave me the bites as opposed to blotter. I figured that the former may have been cut with something (speed?). It was still very good though.
posted by stinkycheese at 9:19 AM on October 6, 2005
posted by stinkycheese at 9:19 AM on October 6, 2005
RE bad acid - the only explanation I've ever heard that made any amount of sense is that LSD eventually breaks down into its precursor, ergotomine, over time. Apparently, heat also speeds up this breakdown. Ergotomine gives you all of the negative physical effects usually attributed to "strychnine."
Even this explanation, however, seems doubtful. Why is it so hard for people to believe that some acid is just weak or not properly made?
Man, I can't believe that people still think that there's strychnine in acid. I remember reading years back about how the federal lab that does all of the evidence testing for drug cases has never once found strychnine in acid.
Amazing how persistant bad information is when nobody is out there making sure that good information gets propagated.
posted by afroblanca at 10:12 AM on October 6, 2005
Even this explanation, however, seems doubtful. Why is it so hard for people to believe that some acid is just weak or not properly made?
Man, I can't believe that people still think that there's strychnine in acid. I remember reading years back about how the federal lab that does all of the evidence testing for drug cases has never once found strychnine in acid.
Amazing how persistant bad information is when nobody is out there making sure that good information gets propagated.
posted by afroblanca at 10:12 AM on October 6, 2005
lalochezia I'm not fully convinced those 2 citings put the matter to rest viz: the strychnine 'myth'.
First, they say that it's basically implausible that a significant dose of strychnine could be in hit of acid because it would have to be 10 time the amount of acid that was there. I see no logical reason as to why that in itself makes it implausible. A 100ug dose of acid on cardboard is going to way what? a gram or so. Without checking my chemistry, if the strychine is readily soluble, it's very easily plausible that both 100ug of acid AND 1000ug (1mg) of strychnine could be there at the same time.
Second...and I am a big fan of erowid as their information seems to my way of knowledge and thinking to be almost always spot on, but they are citing a review of samples from 1972-1979 as having less than 0.05% contaminant doses. That's fucking 25 years ago! Why should a study done that long ago be relevant to what people have been manufacturing and buying in the last decade or year or week. It's poor logic.
Third. My very strong recall, without looking it up, is that strychnine is the ultimate upper. More inducive of hyperexcitability (hence you die fitting from overdose) than any other substance that I've heard about. So on the face of it, if you only have a little bit of acid say and a little bit of MDMA or other amphetamine and you want to get as much buck for your bang, then as a supplier, adding a small amount of strychnine makes sense at first look.
The most observable symptom (again, from memory studying Sci) from ingestion of strychnine is stomach cramp. That would be more of a sign than any other folklore about 'bad trip' or 'bad acid' that involved headaches or nightmares or paranoia (which could themselves be induced by any number of contaminants or extraneous factors). I've had the pain, years ago - it's a burning pain that you can point to with your finger tip and not your flattened palm - it's a very specific type of discomfort, again, as I understand it.
So I'm saying 2 things here - 1. the evidence on the table so far is far from conclusive (on the table in MeFi, I mean) and 2. it makes chemical sense to the degree that I recall so maybe it shouldn't just be dismissed so offhandedly as an urban myth until further evidence is cited.
And all this is not to say that I firmly believe it. I'm on the fence. I have my own past that comes to mind but I suppose that could also be explained away and I'd be willing to adjust my thoughts if some relevant plausible studies or other evidence was brought to bear.
posted by peacay at 12:09 PM on October 6, 2005
First, they say that it's basically implausible that a significant dose of strychnine could be in hit of acid because it would have to be 10 time the amount of acid that was there. I see no logical reason as to why that in itself makes it implausible. A 100ug dose of acid on cardboard is going to way what? a gram or so. Without checking my chemistry, if the strychine is readily soluble, it's very easily plausible that both 100ug of acid AND 1000ug (1mg) of strychnine could be there at the same time.
Second...and I am a big fan of erowid as their information seems to my way of knowledge and thinking to be almost always spot on, but they are citing a review of samples from 1972-1979 as having less than 0.05% contaminant doses. That's fucking 25 years ago! Why should a study done that long ago be relevant to what people have been manufacturing and buying in the last decade or year or week. It's poor logic.
Third. My very strong recall, without looking it up, is that strychnine is the ultimate upper. More inducive of hyperexcitability (hence you die fitting from overdose) than any other substance that I've heard about. So on the face of it, if you only have a little bit of acid say and a little bit of MDMA or other amphetamine and you want to get as much buck for your bang, then as a supplier, adding a small amount of strychnine makes sense at first look.
The most observable symptom (again, from memory studying Sci) from ingestion of strychnine is stomach cramp. That would be more of a sign than any other folklore about 'bad trip' or 'bad acid' that involved headaches or nightmares or paranoia (which could themselves be induced by any number of contaminants or extraneous factors). I've had the pain, years ago - it's a burning pain that you can point to with your finger tip and not your flattened palm - it's a very specific type of discomfort, again, as I understand it.
So I'm saying 2 things here - 1. the evidence on the table so far is far from conclusive (on the table in MeFi, I mean) and 2. it makes chemical sense to the degree that I recall so maybe it shouldn't just be dismissed so offhandedly as an urban myth until further evidence is cited.
And all this is not to say that I firmly believe it. I'm on the fence. I have my own past that comes to mind but I suppose that could also be explained away and I'd be willing to adjust my thoughts if some relevant plausible studies or other evidence was brought to bear.
posted by peacay at 12:09 PM on October 6, 2005
In other news, MDMA analogues may alleviate Parkinson's Disease.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:25 PM on October 6, 2005
posted by mrgrimm at 12:25 PM on October 6, 2005
peacay : "they are citing a review of samples from 1972-1979 as having less than 0.05% contaminant doses. That's fucking 25 years ago! Why should a study done that long ago be relevant to what people have been manufacturing and buying in the last decade or year or week. It's poor logic."
The strychnine 'myth' emerged in the late 60s. If it wasn't true then, low chance of it being true later. Also, a blotter weighs not even close to a gram.
posted by Gyan at 12:55 PM on October 6, 2005
The strychnine 'myth' emerged in the late 60s. If it wasn't true then, low chance of it being true later. Also, a blotter weighs not even close to a gram.
posted by Gyan at 12:55 PM on October 6, 2005
Fair enough about the weight. But still it doesn't work as evidence. The acid/strychnine on blotter is more possible than not.
I don't follow the 'low chance of it being true later' logic either. Is there anything we're going on here other than a 70s study and hearsay. As I say, I'm just wanting a bit more because the barriers put up here don't look water tight. I would have hoped that people would come armed with literature. Anyway...it's late here so I have to toddle off. Still, I'll be interested to see if someone does the legwork when I come back later (what? me, lazy? ... mm...yes & tired).
posted by peacay at 1:03 PM on October 6, 2005
I don't follow the 'low chance of it being true later' logic either. Is there anything we're going on here other than a 70s study and hearsay. As I say, I'm just wanting a bit more because the barriers put up here don't look water tight. I would have hoped that people would come armed with literature. Anyway...it's late here so I have to toddle off. Still, I'll be interested to see if someone does the legwork when I come back later (what? me, lazy? ... mm...yes & tired).
posted by peacay at 1:03 PM on October 6, 2005
If you're looking for positive evidence of no strychnine, then you'll have to break into the DEA's offices. Besides the 70s study, there's a LA-county analysis of 84 which found blotters to be pure or blank. The myth had its genesis in the late 60s when acid use was high and the authorities wanted to discourage new users. A sample of shrooms *was* found with strychnine. Being a poison, the authorities seized upon this finding and propagated it. The legal and social prohibition atmosphere helped cement such rumors as Fact. Remember, only recently have sites like EcstasyData sprung up and the DEA still doesn't allow them to report the doses, only the compounds which are positively tested for. Even this is a recent thing, made possible by the Internet. The broader point, acknowledged by DEA intelligence, is that the LSD movement is ideological and not profit-driven, unlike most other drugs. Doesn't make much sense for them to spike the blotter knowingly. So, in a strict formal logical schema, yes, maybe there's a sea of spiked blotters out there. Practically speaking, given the lack of acid ODs over the years, despite milliion users annually in the US, there's no strychnine.
posted by Gyan at 1:18 PM on October 6, 2005
posted by Gyan at 1:18 PM on October 6, 2005
I'm just sad that the conference doesn't have scheduled times for staring at the wallpaper, the carpet patterns, the whorls on your fingertips and those of the person next to you...or a Pink Floyd Room. Poor planning, I think.
posted by dejah420 at 8:53 PM on October 6, 2005
posted by dejah420 at 8:53 PM on October 6, 2005
Hm..I'll let it go. As I said, it comes across as plausible to me. I might just avoid the DEA offices at this stage though. We don't want to escalate things.
I had a quick search. Erowid is about the only thing cited. Interestingly the spiking with strychnine goes back to at least the 19th century in relation to other pharmaceuticals. If it's a myth, then I'd say poor past history with respect to regulations in medicine manufacturing may have been brought into the 60s acid attack by the government/naysayers.
Still.. interesting.
posted by peacay at 10:28 PM on October 6, 2005
I had a quick search. Erowid is about the only thing cited. Interestingly the spiking with strychnine goes back to at least the 19th century in relation to other pharmaceuticals. If it's a myth, then I'd say poor past history with respect to regulations in medicine manufacturing may have been brought into the 60s acid attack by the government/naysayers.
Still.. interesting.
posted by peacay at 10:28 PM on October 6, 2005
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Ironically, and despite these laws, much of what passes for LSD today is common strychnine, with only afficianados able to tell for sure.
posted by kablam at 8:24 PM on October 5, 2005