MTA

October 6, 2005 3:01 PM

NYC Subway WarningThe New York Police Department is investigating what it deems a credible tip that 19 operatives have been deployed to the city to place bombs in the subway, and security in the subways will be increased, sources told ABC News. Also here.
posted by R. Mutt (112 comments total)

On the same day as Bush's speech, no less. That shit is uncanny.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 3:02 PM on October 6, 2005

Right in the article it says

"While the police department is taking the threat seriously, it is also urging the public not to be alarmed because – while the source is credible – the information has not been verified."

Why the fuck would you print something if it has not been verified. simply to alarm people.


Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

Nice followup to GW's speech.
posted by Mr_Zero at 3:05 PM on October 6, 2005

I'm not cynical enough to believe that there is no credible threat, and that it's all government planned. And yet I'm not trusting enough to believe that there is no government planning, and that it's a credible threat. It's just kind of a tossup for me.
posted by Bugbread at 3:05 PM on October 6, 2005

Ok everyone, any guesses on what the next scare of the day is going to be?
posted by Mr_Zero at 3:08 PM on October 6, 2005

what Sen. Helms said
posted by matteo at 3:11 PM on October 6, 2005

Ok everyone, any guesses on what the next scare of the day is going to be?

Oh, that's easy -- the fearmongering started with Bush's mention yesterday of "avian flu!" Oh, noes!!!
posted by ericb at 3:11 PM on October 6, 2005

Yellow! WAIT, no - Orange! AAAAAAaaaaauuugh...
posted by dragstroke at 3:12 PM on October 6, 2005

the SOURCE is credible see, but the INFORMATION is unverified. Oh, cool. No worries.
posted by punkbitch at 3:14 PM on October 6, 2005

"While the police department is taking the threat seriously, it is also urging the public not to be alarmed because – while the source is credible – the information has not been verified."

A simple case of wanting to have it both ways, which if you think about, might suggest a non-coincidence.
posted by scheptech at 3:14 PM on October 6, 2005

Department of Homeland Security sources told ABC News they are very doubtful the threat information is credible, though NYPD sources said the information continues to come in and is disturbing.
this is comforting. How are us common folk suppose to process this?
posted by hellbient at 3:15 PM on October 6, 2005

> Ok everyone, any guesses on what the next scare of the day is going to be?

Bush could, for instance, tell us that he takes all his orders from God or something. Oh, wait.
posted by NewBornHippy at 3:17 PM on October 6, 2005

Note that it seems to be the NYPD pushing the alert, not the Feds. Some people think the NYPD anti-terror squad is better than Homeland Security in terms of intelligence and analysis.

So, I wouldn't chalk this up as the same as one of Ashcroft's duct tape warnings.
posted by Mid at 3:20 PM on October 6, 2005

I'm resigned to the fact that the odds are very high that I will drown with thousands of other people in a subway train in a tunnel under the East River halfway between Queens and Manhattan because someone has left under a seat a bomb with a detonator triggered by a change in atmospheric pressure. The odds of succeeding on the first attempt at this are almost 1:1.
posted by Mo Nickels at 3:24 PM on October 6, 2005

(Those odds ass-timated by comparing the number of times I've seen police at my morning subway station--2-- with the number of times I've had my bag searched or have seen ANY bag searched--zero--plus the number of police I have seen on the platform at Queens Plaza--zero.)
posted by Mo Nickels at 3:26 PM on October 6, 2005

Mo Nickels:

chill. The odds are very very low. Although if it does happen many of us will go down with you.
posted by hackly_fracture at 3:26 PM on October 6, 2005

What kind of operatives? Al-Qaeda? KGB? CIA? Mossad?
posted by keswick at 3:26 PM on October 6, 2005

You know, Bush's Fear Soup is just too damned oily for my taste.

hellbient, be glad if you're not in New York City? Or, if you are, consider hiring a cab instead of taking the subway?

mo nickels, how awful a resignation to have.
posted by fenriq at 3:26 PM on October 6, 2005

Well, maybe now the NYPD can take a break from stealing bikes.
posted by drezdn at 3:26 PM on October 6, 2005

Ah-ha. This explains why Bloomberg is skipping out on the mayoral debate tonight. I'm staying away from the A stop at 125th tonight.
posted by eatitlive at 3:27 PM on October 6, 2005

Hey, ya think this means no one will notice Bloomberg skipping the debate?
posted by hackly_fracture at 3:28 PM on October 6, 2005

d'oh.
posted by hackly_fracture at 3:28 PM on October 6, 2005

fenriq - I'm riding my bike back home. On preview - provided it's still where I locked it.
posted by hellbient at 3:30 PM on October 6, 2005

BREAKING NEWS...

...IRAN HAS HIRED FROM TRAINING CAMPS IN SYRIA MARRIED GAY INSURGENTS WHO DON'T SUPPORT THE TROOPS TO BLOW UP ABORTED FETUSES CARRYING AVIAN FLU ON THE NY SUBWAY, WHICH WILL BE BLOWN OVER ALL RED STATES USING DIRTY BOMBS, CROP SPRAYERS AND A GENETICALLY MODIFIED HURRICANE TAMMY. ANYONE WHO TRIES TO LET'S ROLL WILL BE TORTURED AND BEHEADED WITH NUCLEAR BOX CUTTERS AND A VIDEO WILL BE POSTED ON AN ISLAMIST WEBSITE, THUS WORKING THEIR WAY AROUND THE DIGITAL MILLENNIUM COPYRIGHT ACT AND NYPD SHOOT-TO-KILL ORDERS. ALSO, SADDAM HUSSEIN DID IT...

DEVELOPING...
posted by tapeguy at 3:31 PM on October 6, 2005

Here is a great article about the NYPD antiterror squad. How great is the New Yorker for putting so much great stuff on line for free?
posted by Mid at 3:31 PM on October 6, 2005

Radio just told me that the FBI has "partially disrupted the threat." Whatever that means.
posted by eatitlive at 3:31 PM on October 6, 2005

Oh, déjà vu.

Remember in August 2004 when arrests in Pakistan led to Tom Ridge raising the "color alert level" to orange and "highest security" was implemented at various financial institutions in New York and New Jersey?

Remember that very soon after the intelligence was deemed "old" as it was based on "dated" photos and maps found on the laptop of Muhammad Naeem Noor Khan?

Remember how pissed-off intelligence agencies were with the fact that Muhammad Naeem Noor Khan's cover as a CIA mole had thus been blown without coordination by the Bush administration with them -- something which they had supposedly worked-out post-9/11?

Remember when the BBC (amongst many) reported at the time:

"Some have suggested that the timing of the latest US government warning is designed to knock presidential challenger John Kerry off the front pages after his nomination as the Democratic Party's candidate last week."

Call me jaded.
posted by ericb at 3:33 PM on October 6, 2005

This should distract people from Rove.
posted by hyperizer at 3:34 PM on October 6, 2005

cover as a CIA mole

*cover as an Al Qaeda mole*
posted by ericb at 3:34 PM on October 6, 2005

Department of Homeland Security sources told ABC News they are very doubtful the threat information is credible, though NYPD sources said the information continues to come in and is disturbing.
this is comforting. How are us common folk suppose to process this?

Easy, poor coordination and an example of a turf battle between city and federal authorities.

After 9/11 and the widespread loss of confidence in the feds to prevent stuff like that, state & city police agencies pushed to have access to raw, unprocessed intel. Previously, the FBI/CIA would screen their intel first, and any credible threats would be passed on to the relevant authorities. Problem is, 99.999 of the information is crap, and the feds know it.

Now, those city & state authorities want more raw information so they can make these judgments themselves. The logic is that in the time it would take the feds to screen the info, the attack may have already happened, with the cities left to pick up the pieces. The NYPD accordingly beefed up its Intelligence division, hired counterterrorism analysts, set up fancy-pants command centers, etc.

As much confidence as I have in the NYPD (which is probably more than a lot of people on MeFi) I just don't think they have the expertise of the feds in this matter, and this results in the story we're reading today. The feds, which probably have access to the broader picture, don't find this threat credible (it seems to have come from a busted terrorist in Iraq, probably trying to scare the pants off his captors), while the NYPD is looking for any excuse to flex its counterterrorism muscle, show the city it's on top of things before an election, and, perhaps a constant motive of any federal agency, justify its budget.

That said, you won't hear me bitching about bag searches one bit.
posted by Brian James at 3:35 PM on October 6, 2005

This should distract people from Rove.

Hardly, likely... "Rove to testify" again in the CIA case -- 214 related articles posted in the past few hours.
posted by ericb at 3:35 PM on October 6, 2005

Look, if someone wants to blow up the subway, they're gonna blow up the subway. Anyone who takes it has got to know that. Short of posting a cop at every entrance and strip searching everyone, it is very unlikely you will stop a subway bomber once he straps that bomb on.

Despite what fenriq may think, resigning yourself to the fact that you may die in subway bombing while remembering that it is very unlikely (you're probably more likely to die in the cab) is the only way to live a normal life. I think it's much better than moving away or revamping your whole life. And being scared the whole time is no way to live either.

I'd like the cops to work to find the bombers, and I'd like our government to stop creating conditions ripe for the gestation of more, but I'm going to ride my damn subway and not be afraid. No matter what the NYPD may think of today.
posted by dame at 3:44 PM on October 6, 2005

fo·ment ( P ) Pronunciation Key (f-mnt)
tr.v. fo·ment·ed, fo·ment·ing, fo·ments
To promote the growth of; incite.
To treat (the skin, for example) by fomentation.
----------------------------
[Middle English fomenten, to apply warm liquids to the skin, from Old French fomenter, from Late Latin fmentre, from Latin fmentum, poultice, from fovre, to warm. See dhegwh- in Indo-European Roots.]
----------------------------

Do we need this?

A few years ago, I saw the second plane go in. I saw the fireball with my bare eyes. I saw a couple of sticks fall down. It still bothers me a great deal. It scares me that it could happen again.

However.......

Is Metafilter the place where alarmists chew their cud? I am not saying that is not important, but maybe there are better places for this. I think there are better links out there and I would like to see them. I do not think that this qualifies as the "best of the web". I think it qualifies as "let's scream about what is being said on CBS".

Maybe I should just make this a MeTa thread.

Ahhhh.....whatever.... You get the point....I hope.
posted by lampshade at 3:47 PM on October 6, 2005

This should distract people from Rove.

I'm watching NBC Nightly News (delayed vieiwng on TiVo) right now ... and Brian Williams just said that the Rove story is yet another repeat of bad news for the Bush administration, so much so, that it is his lead story tonight, bumping the story of President Bush's speech today to later in the broadcast.
posted by ericb at 3:53 PM on October 6, 2005

How come nobody is talking about the SPY found int the damned Whitehouse?
posted by tkchrist at 3:56 PM on October 6, 2005

that is not important

er...ahh...that this is not important....



(typos annoy me)
posted by lampshade at 3:56 PM on October 6, 2005

Terror! Terror! Terror!
posted by eriko at 4:04 PM on October 6, 2005

Thank you R. Mutt. Personally, I come here for the Best of the Web, cool flash thingies, nice art links, political discussion, and my news commentary. I appriciate links like this.
I get more information and points of view by reading a the posts in a link like this, from people who are really there, than watching any channel on TV, or flipping through my news links.

All you newsfilter haters need to Coooool Out! ;-)

But really, this is just a lot of misdirection from bad news in Washington comming from all sides from reaching headlines.

Unless it isn't.
posted by Balisong at 4:07 PM on October 6, 2005

This is such a crock of shit, and i just got off the subway 5 minutes ago and did not see any increased police at either Times Sq, or 34th/7th.

I guess Rove figured no one would buy it if they said the DC subways?


(all that said, we're definitely going to be attacked either on the street or in the subways--there won't be any threat beforehand tho)
posted by amberglow at 4:11 PM on October 6, 2005

dame, are you trying to say that you know the risks in taking the subway, you accept those risks and are going to continue living your life however you choose to live it regardless of threats or inflated threats?

Good.

That said, I'm not living just for me. I don't have the luxury of sticking to my guns and staying on my routine regardless of threats. I have to try and keep myself whole and healthy to provide for my family. If I were in NYC today, I'd be taking a cab home.

More power to you for not bowing to a likely bogus threat. I don't have that luxury.
posted by fenriq at 4:33 PM on October 6, 2005

Ok everyone, any guesses on what the next scare of the day is going to be?

I heard on the teev this morning that Melbourne might be next because it is our "Jewish capital." I never knew that.

And just now, when Googling for arguably Melbourne's most famous Jew, I found this War on Tuhr-related article.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 4:54 PM on October 6, 2005

But you're more likely to die in the cab.
posted by dame at 4:55 PM on October 6, 2005

I hope swerdloff's pizza joint is safe.
posted by fandango_matt at 5:02 PM on October 6, 2005

19 iraqis, in contrast to 19 saudis... yeah, that would be a great message for the "keep you safe" administration to put out there.

anybody bombing the subway when I ride isn't planning things right
posted by arialblack at 5:03 PM on October 6, 2005

I have never really understood the government's obsession with telling us about "attacks that didn't happen," or "attacks that might happen."

The gov can't ever give us any of the real facts, since that could potentially compromise our intelligence apparatus. Since we don't have any facts, we can't act based on the information. For example, we never get anything like, "hey guys, avoid the Astor Place stop today." If we did, there would be a clear course of action.

Instead, we get a bunch of really vauge reports of things that may happen or didn't happen, we get no specific facts, and we get no real information about the credibility of the sources. All we can sensibly do is ignore this stuff. Even if we wanted to act based on the information, we don't have enough information to do so.
posted by afroblanca at 5:03 PM on October 6, 2005

SCARED YET?
posted by Balisong at 5:05 PM on October 6, 2005

Actually, you know, thinking on it more, fenriq, I just don't think this warning means anything. Everyone who lives here has to know that the subway is so open and so pervasive that it's impossible to practically defend. And it's a target every day. One day may be the day and no one but the bomber can control what will happen. So I'm not going to get bent out of shape about it. Something is going to kill me someday. Even if I never left my house, I could be electrocuted. There could be a fire.

You do dangerous things every day. You get on the freeway. You go into a store where there could be a robbery. You fly. We all do. And we generally don't think about it, because everything carries some risk. But all of a sudden it's TERRORISM and OMG I COULD DIE. It just doesn't make any sense.

Also, assuming that because I'm not married and haven't had kids means there aren't people who would be devestated by my death is rather insulting.
posted by dame at 5:07 PM on October 6, 2005

I thought there were 20 hijackers, and one was arrested or late or some such, so he missed the flight. So, like, whoa dude, 19 Mystery Subway Bombers...where's #20?!
posted by fandango_matt at 5:09 PM on October 6, 2005

Alright assholes, my cousin is NYPD.

i just txt him to see if i should be concerned (i take the subway 40 minutes each day through manhattan and bklyn) He just wrote back:

"I would be concerned at least for all of october. Details are not available even to us. Please, please be very aware. I love you. Stay safe."

/very seriously...for reals.

/not scared...there is nothing i can do about my commute...but what the assfuckingcunt shit is going on in this cockgobbling assgrandma vaginaass cumslinging world?!
posted by naxosaxur at 5:18 PM on October 6, 2005

naxosaxur: Nothing to impugn on your brother or on police in general, but:
1) If it was just a rumor that started among folks (like the "I gave an arabic looking guy change at a store, and he told me to avoid Queens on Tuesday" ilk), the authorities would not tell the police that there was real cause for alarm, and your cousin would not be very concerned.
2) If there is real cause for alarm, the authorities would tell the police that there was real cause for alarm, and your cousin would be very concerned.
3) If there is no real cause for alarm, and it's just an admin publicity thing, the authorities would tell the police that there was real cause for alarm, and your cousin would be very concerned.

The debate here is whether it's pattern 2 or 3. Either way, your cousin would say the same thing, because the same info would be available to him, so it doesn't particularly weigh in on the issue either way.
posted by Bugbread at 5:24 PM on October 6, 2005

WHY BUSH SERIOUSLY NEEDS THIS TO HAPPEN.

george is indisputably facing the worse crisis of his lifetime - it's all very evidently happening right now. the recent odd changes in appearance and behavior belies the fact that there's a huge crisis going on behind that face and he's very little clue how to hide it (other than to numb his expression with a drink or two).

given the circumstances, a monumental act of mass distraction would be the very precise miracle he's long been praying for. the timing would be impeccable. it's 100% not a case of if, it's very simply a case of when

AND IF IT DOES, YOU'LL KNOW WHY
posted by rodney stewart at 5:25 PM on October 6, 2005

I'm going to move to New York, and I'm going to sell gas masks at the entrances to subways. I'll also sell prepackaged "Terrornoia Relief Kits" with plastic sheeting and a roll of duct tape. I'm gonna be rich!
posted by fandango_matt at 5:25 PM on October 6, 2005

rodney stewart : "AND IF IT DOES, YOU'LL KNOW WHY"

I will?
posted by Bugbread at 5:25 PM on October 6, 2005

and don't forget this: After leaving his position at Homeland Security, Tom Ridge acknowledged that the post 9/11 terror alerts were often based on "flimsy evidence" and that he had been pressured by the CIA to raise the threat level:
...

They have to change the subject--they're falling back on their old tricks.
posted by amberglow at 5:30 PM on October 6, 2005

Eventually somebody WILL bomb the NY Subway.

-and-

Eventually you will die.

What can you do about these things?

My advice? Keep taking the subway but cut back on fatty foods, eat right and get plenty of sleep and excercise. Don't smoke. Don't drive too fast. Get laid when you can BUT be responsible and don't hurt anybodies feelings. Call your mom at least once a week. Be freindly to stangers. Oh. And be nice to animals.

There. Take my advice. It will do you more good than worring about The Terrorists.
posted by tkchrist at 5:30 PM on October 6, 2005

Fandago_matt, good luck, but I bet you end up working as a waiter or bartender.
posted by R. Mutt at 5:32 PM on October 6, 2005

Everyone who lives here has to know that the subway is so open and so pervasive that it's impossible to practically defend.

Thank you for making this point, Dame.

You can't acheive security by defending the targets. There are simply too many targets, and once you defend one, your attackers will just find another that is more vulnerable.

The only way to acheive security is to FIND THE ATTACKERS. Got the attackers? Great! Now all of your targets are more safe.

Everyone in this world needs to go out and read Beyond Fear.
posted by afroblanca at 5:32 PM on October 6, 2005

and what rodney said--Rove is definitely going to be indicted (with others), and the Miers thing is not at all going well, whether it's a fake or not. There's still massive fallout and massive work to be done about Katrina, and Iraq is beyond debacle status right now.
posted by amberglow at 5:34 PM on October 6, 2005

FUCK YOU BUSH, GIVE ME MY RIGHTS BACK TO RIDE THE SUBWAY AFRAID OF BEING MUGGED OR RAPED OR STALKED OR PUSHED DOWN THE TRACKS TIA
posted by naxosaxur at 5:38 PM on October 6, 2005

afroblanca writes "The only way to acheive security is to FIND THE ATTACKERS. Got the attackers? Great! Now all of your targets are more safe."

That works out great, until those people in Iraq whose families were "collateral damage" in operation "Iraqi Freedom" start telling themselves the same thing. And then it's your problem again.
posted by clevershark at 5:39 PM on October 6, 2005

clevershark - thanks. The only way to acheive security is to FIND THE ATTACKERS and NOT CREATE NEW ONES.
posted by afroblanca at 5:52 PM on October 6, 2005

for context i should say i'm also a downtown new yorker (albiet ex-pat brit). apologies for the paranoid outburst earlier but bush's spontaneously acquired nervous twitch have done wonders to my sense of comfort lately.
posted by rodney stewart at 6:03 PM on October 6, 2005

NASDAQ: BIKE

BUY! BUY! BUY!
posted by HTuttle at 6:16 PM on October 6, 2005

But what if they blow up critical mass?

SELL! SELL! SELL!
posted by hackly_fracture at 6:18 PM on October 6, 2005

*Yawn*. What the fuck EVER. Ignore it. That is; be sensible, if you see unattended bags, report them. If you see suicide bombers, oh dear, you're fucked, never mind. Meanwhile, get on with your life and don't be a whining pussy.

This message brought to you courtesy of someone who lived in London throughout the IRA years and who really refuses to give these subhumans the minor recognition of acknowledgement. On the world scale, New York is still a really safe place to live.Move on. Next.
posted by Decani at 6:23 PM on October 6, 2005

Hey decani, there's nothing wimpy about pussies. Don't be a dick.
/derail

And until the NYPD starts picking me up at my house and driving me to work, it's the subways or unemployment. But when I used to drive, I risked icy overpasses, a car that burst into flames right in front of me, and a truck carrying massive concrete pillars that overturned shortly after I passed it...30 minutes later and it would have flattened me. So, terrorists. They'll get you or they won't.
posted by emjaybee at 6:34 PM on October 6, 2005

I've modified and repurposed the MTA logo to better reflect the times. Tshirts! Getcher Terror-Tees here!

Before:


After:

posted by fandango_matt at 6:34 PM on October 6, 2005

fandango: fantastic

Me? I'ma gonna walk to and from work tomorrow. But then, I do that most every day when the weather's decent. I'm just going to feel a little safer tomorrow while I do it.

And maybe I'll dance down the street while listening to my iPod. I almost did today.
posted by papercake at 6:58 PM on October 6, 2005

there's nothing wimpy about pussies

You clearly haven't met my cats.
posted by Decani at 6:59 PM on October 6, 2005

i want that on a tshirt, fandango--you'll make big bucks too--get to cafepress!
posted by amberglow at 7:01 PM on October 6, 2005

oh, it's always a good time to remind everyone of this little gem, oft repeated: "We're taking the fight to the terrorists abroad so we do not have to face them here at home." (and many other quotes just like it)
posted by amberglow at 7:08 PM on October 6, 2005

I remember that when Katrina hit more than one person suggested dispatching the Army Corps of Engineers in Iowa, so they could fight the hurricanes there rather than in New Orleans...
posted by clevershark at 7:11 PM on October 6, 2005

Decani. you really are quite a brave hero. you think 3,000 vapourized civillians is equivalent to an IRA bag of semtex stuck under a army bandstand? the IRA in london didn't even nearly come close to the scale of what happened here.

the stakes here are completely different. everybody lives and works on top of everybody else and security is absolutely invisible or non-existent. it's a joke and it's nothing like london. come here and try it, wanker. it's an entirely different league. no fucking wonder you're feeling so smug.
posted by rodney stewart at 7:14 PM on October 6, 2005

amberglow,

think Bush considers NYC the home front?

"Well, OK, we'll keep 'em out of the heartland, anyway . . . "
posted by hackly_fracture at 7:17 PM on October 6, 2005

i want that on a tshirt, fandango--you'll make big bucks too--get to cafepress!

Agreed. Just don't wear in when boarding a Southwest Airline flight!
posted by ericb at 7:20 PM on October 6, 2005

* wear it *

On preview -- fandango_matt that is very clever!
posted by ericb at 7:22 PM on October 6, 2005

Well, maybe now the NYPD can take a break from stealing bikes.

they're doing this in cambridge, mass too. what's up with that?
posted by brandz at 7:27 PM on October 6, 2005

rodney stewart : "you think 3,000 vapourized civillians is equivalent to an IRA bag of semtex stuck under a army bandstand? the IRA in london didn't even nearly come close to the scale of what happened here. "

Keep in mind that you have to adjust for population differences. For the IRA to have equalled the WTC would not require 3,000 dead civilians, but 638.
posted by Bugbread at 7:31 PM on October 6, 2005

hackly, he hates NY, except when he's using us for political gain, of course. The Bush administration has treated New York City like a battered wife who still gets displayed for photo-ops and state dinners. ...
posted by amberglow at 7:44 PM on October 6, 2005

I am not worried about tomorrow or Saturday. Why? Because it is going to rain and rain some more. If 9/11 taught Al Quaeda anything it is that television media matters and the sight of two burning towers against a bright blue sky is much better for them than mucky, murky, rainy video of whatever their next attack might be.
posted by camworld at 7:45 PM on October 6, 2005

Exactly, Amberglow:On a per-capita basis, New York State ranks 49th among the states in antiterrorist funding, far below rural, sparsely populated Wyoming, Montana and North Dakota.
posted by R. Mutt at 7:47 PM on October 6, 2005

And about this "credible threat"? ... "the intelligence community has concluded this information to be of doubtful credibility. We shared this information early on with state and local authorities in New York." Knocke did not elaborate.
A counter terror official, who was briefed about the threat by Homeland Security authorities, said the intelligence was considered doubtful because it did not reflect "on-the-ground, detailed" information. Rather, the official, who also insisted on anonymity, said the intelligence was similar to "what can be found on the Internet and a map of New York City." ...
posted by amberglow at 7:53 PM on October 6, 2005

Most of the sources I saw on the news shows tonight at least hinted that the NYPD was aware of this threat for a couple of days already. So, why pick tonight -- and at rush hour, of all times -- to go public with it?
posted by clevershark at 8:16 PM on October 6, 2005

tapeguy you're my hero.
posted by Krrrlson at 8:25 PM on October 6, 2005

Terror T-Shirts! Getcher MTA Terror T-Shirts Here! Don't let the Terrorists win!
posted by fandango_matt at 8:41 PM on October 6, 2005

maybe the NYPD'll just ram a few toilet plungers up terrahist asses and everybody will be safe
posted by matteo at 8:46 PM on October 6, 2005

except the terrahist asses of course
posted by matteo at 8:47 PM on October 6, 2005

When I ride the subway tomorrow I hope it’s not with people blinded by political antagonisms or head down in fatalistic resignation. I hope it’s with the regular New Yorker’s I usually ride with who are alert, and ready to notify the authorities if they see something unusual.

A warning gives people the chance to be more alert, and an aware populace is a chance to prevent or deter an attack. As helpless as some may feel, or as skeptical as others may be about “ulterior motivations”, for the majority of New Yorkers, I’m sure this warning is seen as nothing more than what it is: a sensible and pragmatic response to the grim realities of our time.
posted by extrabox at 9:13 PM on October 6, 2005

everyday is a warning, extra. it can happen at any time, and tomorrow is no less or more dangerous than today was, or last Tuesday, or a week from Wednesday will be.

woot, fandango--done!
posted by amberglow at 9:42 PM on October 6, 2005

assgrandma?
posted by aaronetc at 9:59 PM on October 6, 2005

Snakes on a Train!
posted by Dukebloo at 10:56 PM on October 6, 2005

This government is not a credible source on terrorist threats. Best to ignore them.
posted by raaka at 12:04 AM on October 7, 2005

I’m sure this warning is seen as nothing more than what it is: a sensible and pragmatic response to the grim realities of our time.

Why must you be George Bush's monkey? Dance, Monkey, Dance!
posted by cytherea at 12:37 AM on October 7, 2005

i was gonna say, at least it's not SNAKES ON A PLANE but as Dukebloo points out, who knows what could happen.
posted by Marquis at 5:21 AM on October 7, 2005

You realize, of course, that all they have to do now is place a few more "credible tips" and soon most of the country will either be "all securitied up" or flat out under Martial Law.
posted by deusdiabolus at 5:52 AM on October 7, 2005

Speaking of Tuesday: Jonathan Dienst, a reporter for Ch. 4 news, realized on Tuesday that he might be on to an important story about a possible terrorist threat to New York City.

But as the 13-year veteran of New York broadcast journalism tried to ferret out details, he found that public officials were calling him with an unusual request: Hold the story. ... Dienst said the calls asking him to hold the story came from "high-ranking federal officials in New York and Washington" and from one local official. Ultimately, he said, he chose to trust the officials. ...
posted by amberglow at 6:40 AM on October 7, 2005

rodney stewart writes "the IRA in London didn't even nearly come close to the scale of what happened here. "

As a distant observer of both the IRA bombings and the WTC event I'd say the IRA stuff was a lot more terrifying. The duration and randomness of the London bombings and the on going day to day impact seemed much greater. For example is there still litter everywhere in London because of a lack of public waste containers?

R. Mutt writes "On a per-capita basis, New York State ranks 49th among the states in anti terrorist funding, far below rural, sparsely populated Wyoming, Montana and North Dakota."

Per capita seems like a bizarre way to rank/compare security funding. Many terrorist targets and controls are far away from people. Stuff like like the cost of securing airports probably has little to do with the surrounding population density. For example it appears from a quick glance at a map that Montana probably has the 3rd longest stretch of international border of any state.
posted by Mitheral at 7:06 AM on October 7, 2005

You can't live your life cowering in fear.
posted by bshort at 7:45 AM on October 7, 2005

Mitheral: Terror requires people. Not many of those to terrorize in Montana.

NYC is a fat, juicy, densely populated place. Great for terror. It is the American hub for finance, fashion, entertainment, and broadcasting, as well as a major shipping port. JFK International Airport is a huge port of entry. Two other huge airports service the region. Oh, and then there's the United Nations headquarters.

The dense and diverse population create an especially difficult to police environment, which makes it more costly to guard. Add to this the bridges and tunnels, which make nice targets.

A long border with Canada, where strangers are real exceptions, can begin to compare.
posted by Goofyy at 8:06 AM on October 7, 2005

Mitheral: No matter how you slice it, NY is not getting an appropriate share of security funding. We have 2 major and several minor airports, and a couple of hundred miles of coastline. Manhattan alone has more potential terrorist targets than all the rocky mountain states combined.
That said, maybe per-capita is not the best way to compare spending, unless you were talking about the number of people being protected per dollar spent.
posted by bashos_frog at 8:39 AM on October 7, 2005

Decani. you really are quite a brave hero.

Oh good gracious no. Just not a snivelling coward who jumps at shadows, that's all.

you think 3,000 vapourized civillians is equivalent to an IRA bag of semtex stuck under a army bandstand?

Ummm... no. Did I say I did?

the IRA in london didn't even nearly come close to the scale of what happened here.

No, but their actions and threats resulted in precisely the sort of warnings and subway scares being discussed on this thread. And that's what my response was about.

the stakes here are completely different.

I reject that assertion. The stakes are the lives of people working and travelling in NYC. A subway attack in NYC is likely to be similar to the one that actually happened recently in London. Remember that?

come here and try it, wanker.

I've been living in New York for almost four years, wanker. 'kay?
posted by Decani at 8:47 AM on October 7, 2005

By the way Rodders old chap, I do wish you'd work on your grammar a bit; learn to use capital letters, that sort of number. You're embarrassing us. By "us" I'm referring to Brits in NYC, of course.
posted by Decani at 9:08 AM on October 7, 2005

That said, I'm not living just for me. I don't have the luxury of sticking to my guns and staying on my routine regardless of threats. I have to try and keep myself whole and healthy to provide for my family. If I were in NYC today, I'd be taking a cab home.

More power to you for not bowing to a likely bogus threat. I don't have that luxury.

Stop being such a coward.

Unless you're staying in your bed 24/7 and never riding in a car / eating red meat / crossing the street / catching a cold then you're obviously not doing everything you can to keep yourself safe.
posted by bshort at 9:11 AM on October 7, 2005

I have to try and keep myself whole and healthy to provide for my family.

Yeesh. Like EVERYONE ELSE, you mean?!
posted by sonofsamiam at 9:24 AM on October 7, 2005

Ride in to Manhattan was a bit tense this morning. People keeping an eye on one another. I guess that's good, but you know what? I think New Yorkers have just about had it. Fuck Osama Bin Laden and Al Queda and fuck the contradictory Federal and local officials and Fuck George Bush for doing every mother fuckin' thing that he could do to make this situation worse at every turn, because he and his cronies had to hi-jack a national tragedy for their own agenda of a Christian Neocon vision of a utopian "New American Century". (Q: What does nazi germany, communist russia, the charles mansion family and the neocons have in common? A: They're all utopianists.)

Think about what this country was able to accomplish during WWII between 1941 and 1945 to rid the world of Hitler and the Japanese threat. Now think about what it's accomplished between 2001 and 2005. Ponder that for a second. I'm aware that fighting nations and fighting an extreme religious ideology is a vastly different thing, but that doesn't mean we don't or can't have the tools and means, ideas and solutions to effectively deal with this situation. It just takes some honest, clear eyed brain power goddamn it.

But the ongoing heartbreaking and criminal incompotence we see from this President and the congress (both the slavish GOP and the passively complicit spineless democrats) is what you get, when you try to fit the problem to a fixed solution (i.e., nonconservatism) as opposed to putting the country first (no we can't have that can we?!!) and finding a effective solution to fix a goddamn problem.

Wyoming (and it's higher per capita terrorist funding) can kiss my ass.
posted by Skygazer at 9:32 AM on October 7, 2005

I think it's the president's approval rating that is actually bombing.
posted by bshort at 10:24 AM on October 7, 2005

Goofyy writes "Terror requires people. Not many of those to terrorize in Montana"

Up here there has been a lot of noise from down south about "securing the border" including annoyances like biometric passports. I'm just guessing that if your going to the trouble of fingerprinting big swaths of visitors there might be significant funds spent in places like Montana and North Dakota patroling and other wise attempting to control bad guys from wet backing it over the Canadian border and heading for New York. So despite the local population of 1 human and 1000 cows per section a lot of funds would need to be expended.
posted by Mitheral at 10:56 AM on October 7, 2005

bashos_frog: That said, maybe per-capita is not the best way to compare spending, unless you were talking about the number of people being protected per dollar spent.

Funny, I remember getting slammed for this for saying the same thing.

Althogh the per capita figures look scary, the gand total is $20Million. It is also important to remember that DHS was a major reorganization of Federal agencies gobbling up Immigration, Secret Service, and FEMA, so you can't assume that all of those grants are centered on terrorism.

Is there some pork going on, certainly, can we spot the pork by looking at per-capita spending? Certainly not.

In terms of terrorism, even in high-risk cities a person is much more likely to die in a cab wreck than in a subway bombing.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 12:12 PM on October 7, 2005

Now they're saying it was all a political thing by Bloomberg? (he skipped on the debate and needs to appear strong and in charge and "Giuliani-esque", i guess?)
posted by amberglow at 6:29 PM on October 7, 2005

A Department of Homeland Security memo obtained by The Associated Press said the attack was reportedly scheduled to take place on or around Sunday--AP

No terrorist is going to attack on a Sunday--it's the lowest ridership day, with no rush hours.
posted by amberglow at 9:47 AM on October 8, 2005

U.S. Authorities Have All but Discounted Threat to New York.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 3:38 PM on October 10, 2005

The Nexus of Politics and Terror

"Last Thursday on Countdown, I referred to the latest terror threat - the reported bomb plot against the New York City subway system - in terms of its timing. President Bush’s speech about the war on terror had come earlier the same day, as had the breaking news of the possible indictment of Karl Rove in the CIA leak investigation.

I suggested that in the last three years there had been about 13 similar coincidences - a political downturn for the administration, followed by a 'terror event' - a change in alert status, an arrest, a warning." ... more ...

posted by ericb at 6:52 PM on October 12, 2005

Feds to probe e-mails in N.Y. terror alert

"Federal authorities on Thursday opened a criminal investigation into who wrote e-mails that warned private citizens of a possible terror threat to New York City subways days in advance of a city government decision to issue a public alert last week.

News of the probe followed a report Thursday in the New York Daily News that a 'select crowd of business and arts executives' received e-mails tipping them off to a potential threat days before most New Yorkers heard about it from local officials."
[NBC News | Oct. 13, 2005]

posted by ericb at 12:56 PM on October 13, 2005