God Talks to Bush

October 6, 2005 3:33 PM

BBC confirms the story That box on his back, that earpiece? He's never said exactly how God talks to him, only that He does ....
posted by hank (133 comments total)

why do crazy people always contend that god speaks to them ?
posted by mishaco at 3:37 PM on October 6, 2005

Cool, a blurb.
posted by Wolfdog at 3:39 PM on October 6, 2005

Was that before or after he had given up drinking?
posted by homodigitalis at 3:40 PM on October 6, 2005

Bush isn't crazy. He's stupid.
posted by banished at 3:40 PM on October 6, 2005

Why does Bush's God hate America?
posted by Hildegarde at 3:41 PM on October 6, 2005

No, he's dangerous.
posted by muppetboy at 3:41 PM on October 6, 2005

Are the conversations brief or long?
posted by allen.spaulding at 3:42 PM on October 6, 2005

See, its easier to send other people's children to Iraq to get blown up if someone else told him to do it, its called delegaterating. Of course, we can't hold God responsible for Bush's actions so the whole things moot and Bush is still responsible for the absolute clusterfuck that is Iraq and the "pursuit" of Osama (four years and counting, Georgie, four years and counting and you have yet to capture him, Mission Accomplished!).
posted by fenriq at 3:42 PM on October 6, 2005

I had just finished reading that here.

Sometimes I wonder if Bush knows that God, Allah, Jehovah (Yah-weh, Elohim, Adonai, etc.) are all the same god?

I doubt it.
posted by Balisong at 3:44 PM on October 6, 2005

Sometimes I wonder if Bush knows that God doesn't exist?
posted by I Foody at 3:46 PM on October 6, 2005

He doesn't believe that God told him to do these things. That's just for the hoi polloi.

That's not to say his stupid plans aren't utterly irrational. I just don't believe he's really any kind of Christian.

Balisong: actually there is some difference between elohim and the rest, "elohim" are often seen as emanations or "angels" that reflect the unified god. /religio-wonk
posted by sonofsamiam at 3:47 PM on October 6, 2005

Best of the Web. Not Best of the Dweeb.
posted by srboisvert at 3:47 PM on October 6, 2005

Does anyone else find it odd that bbc issues press releases?

Other then that... uh who cares? You think his not being a raving fundy would make him a better prez or something?
posted by delmoi at 3:50 PM on October 6, 2005

My God.
posted by sveskemus at 3:51 PM on October 6, 2005

yeah, this is real big news. right. . . huh, i never would have guessed (etc.)
posted by punkbitch at 3:58 PM on October 6, 2005

God told me Bush is gullible
posted by fatbobsmith at 3:59 PM on October 6, 2005

there's a dutch word that describes him perfectly:

knettergek
posted by Substrata at 3:59 PM on October 6, 2005

why do crazy people always contend that god speaks to them ?

I don't get crazy people either. For what it's worth, I can assure you I haven't been talking to them.
posted by Goblindegook at 4:00 PM on October 6, 2005

Bush is dyslexic. It was his dog talking.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:02 PM on October 6, 2005

I imagine Cheney every morning, helping Bush on with the radio box he wears under his coat, tucking the earplug in, patting George and sending him out with the reassurance that whatever God wants him to hear, it'll be picked up and directed to his attention by the radio.

Then going back behind the curtain, picking up the microphone, and starting his whispering day.

"George -- it's me, God. Our plan for today is ...."
posted by hank at 4:05 PM on October 6, 2005

Wait a minute, doesn't the existence of a Palestinian state set back the timetable for the rapture? This is going to disappoint some of the fringier nuts in his base. (As if he needs 'em anymore.)
posted by maryh at 4:07 PM on October 6, 2005

Let’s knock the rust off of Occam’s Razor:

Which is more likely: a) God telling Bush to invade Afghanistan and Iraq or b) Bush is bat shit fucking crazy?
posted by wfrgms at 4:08 PM on October 6, 2005

Somewhere in the world, Conor Oberst is smiling.
posted by nathan_teske at 4:12 PM on October 6, 2005

Bush is dyslexic. It was his dog talking.

Score!
posted by ericb at 4:12 PM on October 6, 2005

I doubt he meant it. He's got the reputation of a man who can speak to religious people in thier own terms, and I think he (rather patronizingly) uses this kind of language a rhetorical device.
posted by maryh at 4:19 PM on October 6, 2005

This FPP is suboptimal.
posted by recurve at 4:21 PM on October 6, 2005

Sometimes I wonder if Bush knows that God, Allah, Jehovah (Yah-weh, Elohim, Adonai, etc.) are all the same god?

Evangelicals outraged over Bush's "same god" remark.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 4:22 PM on October 6, 2005

Bush: So what do the test results show?

Doctor: Ummmm.... that is not god you have been hearing, you seem to be afflicted with Schizophrenia. I am going to prescribe this antipsychotic medication and I suggest you start writing apology letters.
posted by Mr_Zero at 4:23 PM on October 6, 2005

I doubt he meant it. He's got the reputation of a man who can speak to religious people in thier own terms, and I think he (rather patronizingly) uses this kind of language a rhetorical device.

Yup. Of course, the PA leadership isn't all that religious and probably thought he was insane. Hamas would've gone for it, though.
posted by cell divide at 4:23 PM on October 6, 2005

"there's a dutch word that describes him perfectly:

knettergek"

what does that mean?
posted by muppetboy at 4:23 PM on October 6, 2005

I imagine Cheney every morning, helping Bush on with the radio box he wears under his coat, tucking the earplug in, patting George and sending him out with the reassurance that whatever God wants him to hear, it'll be picked up and directed to his attention by the radio.

Then going back behind the curtain, picking up the microphone, and starting his whispering day.

"George -- it's me, God. Our plan for today is ...."

hank, thanks for that, best laugh I've had all day.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain..."
posted by jokeefe at 4:30 PM on October 6, 2005

>Sometimes I wonder if Bush knows that God, Allah, Jehovah (Yah-weh, Elohim, Adonai, etc.) are all the same god?

Maybe someone should tell you that if that was true then there would be a consistent world religion through history. If we're going to draw conclusions here then the safest one is that the evidence for god is seriously lacking and most likely does not exist.
posted by skallas at 4:32 PM on October 6, 2005

From Heywood Mogroot's link:

The Rev. Ted Haggard, president of the National Association of Evangelicals, also contradicted the president in a press statement, reported the Post. "The Christian God encourages freedom, love, forgiveness, prosperity and health," said Haggard. "The Muslim god appears to value the opposite. The personalities of each god are evident in the cultures, civilizations and dispositions of the peoples that serve them. Muhammad's central message was submission; Jesus' central message was love. They seem to be very different personalities."

Does anyone else find this quote extremely odd? If Rev. Ted refered to Allah as Satan, or as a false god, I might understand it. But he seems to be acknowledging Allah as another diety, like God's jerky crosstown rival. Is this a typical fundamentalist stance or am I misreading him?
posted by maryh at 4:37 PM on October 6, 2005

I doubt he meant it. He's got the reputation of a man who can speak to religious people in thier own terms, and I think he (rather patronizingly) uses this kind of language a rhetorical device.

Sssh, stop thinking rationally, mary. It ain't fashionable. Why approach this with a brain when it's easier to make tired, trite one-liners. Hey, I've got some Xtian co-workers who think you're all "dicks"!

As I said in the other thread, the quote reads like misinterpreted, mistranslated, paraphrased bullshit, just exactly the kind of juicy tidbit the press loves. On the other hand, if he said anything resembling that, it's likely he was being, you know, figurative and not literal about God "talking" in his ear. IE, "I'm going to describe my Iraq intentions in a language you wingnuts can understand: God willed me to do it".
posted by dhoyt at 4:39 PM on October 6, 2005

So just to reiterate, God tells him what to do, but God doesn't tell him that the levees will break?

Here's a hint: if some voice is telling you to do things but doesn't have anything to offer in the way of actual omniscience, there's a pretty good chance that the voice isn't God.
posted by George_Spiggott at 4:41 PM on October 6, 2005

there would be a consistent world religion through history

nah, humans love tailoring religion to their own cultural prejudices.

People with strong faith already believe they have the "evidence for [their] god". They see it in the breaks they catch, the good people they associate with, the tingly emotional feelings that come with devout practice, and the gaping hole their life would have without their faith in more.

As I quoted above, Evangelicals disagree with Bush's pronouncement "I think we all worship the same god". They consider Islam to be a idolatrous religion and that their god can beat up Allah (cf. the fundie SF General Boykin).

Actually Bush made that comment in the UK, and was most likely talking out of his ass, as usual.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 4:41 PM on October 6, 2005

wfrgms: you forgot c) he's lying.
posted by ulotrichous at 4:42 PM on October 6, 2005

The Bush quote is perfect junkfood for those with a pre-exisiting mistrust of Bush. It's easy to believe because you want to believe it. It bolsters all of your derision of Christianity and those who practice it, and it makes the President look dumb and stuff. A two-fer.

Granted, if a Native American chief said the same thing about invading another tribe's territory ("UmmaGumma told me to do it"), some here would think it was interesting, and spiritual, and somehow different and just part of the ancient, anima-human impulse to compete through violence. It'd be discussed thoughtfully in grad-school classes. But there'd be no FPP ridiculing it.
posted by dhoyt at 4:51 PM on October 6, 2005

dhoyt: If it were a Native American who also happened to be the Leader of the Free World I'm pretty sure it would be ridiculed in the same way as this is. And rightly so.
posted by sveskemus at 4:53 PM on October 6, 2005

That's a nice strawman you've got there, dhoyt.
posted by ludwig_van at 4:54 PM on October 6, 2005

On the other hand, if he said anything resembling that, it's likely he was being, you know, figurative and not literal about God "talking" in his ear. IE, "I'm going to describe my Iraq intentions in a language you wingnuts can understand: God willed me to do it".

I fail to see how that would make the comment any less stupid. If the President of the United States is describing his reasons to invade another country, wouldn't some, you know, "facts" be more appropriate than a bunch of mumbo jumbo?
posted by Armitage Shanks at 4:57 PM on October 6, 2005

Blair avoided answering the same question, replying with a general statement about freedom.

It really isn't considered polite to talk about one's religon in Europe, is it? It's nobody's buisiness.
I can't seem to understand why Bush would pile on the religous aspect of it in Europe. No wonder he looks just as looney and twice as dangerous as the Islamic nutjobs.
posted by Balisong at 5:00 PM on October 6, 2005

Na, dhoyt...I hate to set your straw man aflame...but really, anyone who tells me that the reason my friends, my kids, my husband need to go die is some foreign land because "God told me so", is pretty much on my list of people too damn spooky to be given the red button codes.
posted by dejah420 at 5:00 PM on October 6, 2005

If the President of the United States is describing his reasons to invade another country, wouldn't some, you know, "facts" be more appropriate than a bunch of mumbo jumbo?

Facts don't play with MidEast leaders. You know that. They need the influences of Allah/God/Spaghetti Monsters to provide context.
posted by dhoyt at 5:01 PM on October 6, 2005

dhoyt: Facts don't play with MidEast leaders. You know that. They need the influences of Allah/God/Spaghetti Monsters to provide context.

I assume you're being sarcastic but I can't really tell.
posted by sveskemus at 5:05 PM on October 6, 2005

"God told me to skin you alive"

Am I the only person who thinks of the Dead Kennedys whenever someone starts talking about how God told them to do something?

(Especially something like "Start a war...")
posted by dersins at 5:06 PM on October 6, 2005

I don't find it odd
that Bush talks to God.
It’s only perverse
to believe the reverse.

And unless God’s a tease,
or his eyesight is iffy,
those WMDs
would be found in a jiffy.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 5:07 PM on October 6, 2005

The Bush quote is perfect junkfood for those with a pre-exisiting mistrust of Bush. It's easy to believe because you want to believe it. It bolsters all of your derision of Christianity and those who practice it, and it makes the President look dumb and stuff. A two-fer. posted by dhoyt

Exactly. This press release is full of trans fatty acids.
posted by recurve at 5:09 PM on October 6, 2005

I think Bush is cracking under the weight of his own B.S. In photos of him since his "mission accomplished" on that aircraft carrier, he really looks like shit and that in spite of his having taken so much vacation time.

He might be the first U.S. prez to commit suicide while in office.
posted by snsranch at 5:20 PM on October 6, 2005

It bolsters all of your derision of Christianity

The problem is that Bush's -- and the Evangelical's --Christianity is far from my own. Their interpretation of Christ's teachings and the application of their faith is the polar opposite of mine and the denomination in which I was raised. It's not that I deride it, it's that I abhor it.
posted by ericb at 5:21 PM on October 6, 2005

If this is the same god that the biblelovers say was responsible for Katrina and Rita, I'd say it's time ol' George considered atheism.
posted by runningdogofcapitalism at 5:22 PM on October 6, 2005

It is stupid to call Bush crazy or insane. Bush hasn't heard God tell him anything about the middle east, because Bush was lying (big surprise there!) And not only that but God told me that he hasn't talked with Bush since college!
posted by TwelveTwo at 5:24 PM on October 6, 2005

Um, hey dhoyt, there are people who are as "oversensitive" to such remarks about Native Americans as some are to such remarks about Jews. That no pre-Conquest North American (i.e. not Aztec) Native Americans had written scriptures where they're told e.g., "Go into the land of Ohio and kill all the Shawnee there, every man, woman and child", only makes it harder to prove you have not made an anti-Native-American remark.

Personally I think you might be correct, but that has more to do with the left-over reverence "western" culture has for "the Judeo-Christian tradition" -- and with the overcompensation "multiculturalists" do over those "outside the mainstream" regardless of the content of those "non-Judeo-Christian" religio-cultural views. But then to me that "divine revelation" stuff is all hooey regardless of the skin color of most of its practicioners.
posted by davy at 5:26 PM on October 6, 2005

ericb, what is your denomination then? And how aware are you of the class differentiations between American Protestant denominations?
posted by davy at 5:32 PM on October 6, 2005

People who act based on what the little voices tell them to do are called insane. If someone dies or gets hurt as a result of this, they are called criminally insane. Fill in the blanks.
posted by clevershark at 5:34 PM on October 6, 2005

The Bush quote is perfect junkfood for those with a pre-exisiting mistrust of Bush. It's easy to believe because you want to believe it. It bolsters all of your derision of Christianity and those who practice it, and it makes the President look dumb and stuff. A two-fer.
posted by dhoyt at 7:51 PM EST on October 6 [!]

Wait, wait, back up. You're saying that BBC is misquoting or misrepresenting a corroborated statement?
posted by Rothko at 5:35 PM on October 6, 2005

...Native American chief said the same thing about invading another tribe's territory ("UmmaGumma told me to do it")...

I think you dropped something, dhoyt.
posted by Suck Poppet at 5:36 PM on October 6, 2005

That's a damn weak link there. I think we discussed God telling George Bush to invade Iraq years ago.

He talks to God, OK. You know what? Nobody cares.
posted by mrgrimm at 5:43 PM on October 6, 2005

ericb, what is your denomination then?

Congregationalist -- United Church of Christ -- a denomination based on teachings of love and inclusion, not those of hate and exclusion.
posted by ericb at 5:51 PM on October 6, 2005

United Church of Christ ad highlighting Jesus' extravagant welcome called 'too controversial' versus Fred Phelps' God Hates Fags. Compare and contrast.
posted by ericb at 5:54 PM on October 6, 2005

And how aware are you of the class differentiations between American Protestant denominations?

Oh, very aware...and also aware that the Bush clan -- while originating in Ohio -- was firmly trenched here in New England -- Milton, MA, Greenwich, CT and Kennebunkport ME -- with George I and George II having been raised here and schooled at the finest private educational establishments. George W.'s pretense of "good ol' Texas" boy is just that -- pretense and an act.
posted by ericb at 5:57 PM on October 6, 2005

*firmly entrenched here in New England for a number of the past generations*
posted by ericb at 5:58 PM on October 6, 2005

"It bolsters all of your derision of Christianity"

Which is well deserved, god boy.
posted by 2sheets at 5:59 PM on October 6, 2005

As a catholic, this stuff is just stupid. I can pray to saints and ghosts and stuff, and God might even talk to me, but he would NEVER tell me to go and kill anyone in his name. (Unless I was on crank or having DTs.)
posted by snsranch at 5:59 PM on October 6, 2005

dhoyt writes "Facts don't play with MidEast leaders. You know that. They need the influences of Allah/God/Spaghetti Monsters to provide context."

Well, now that the US effectively "owns" Iraq, Bush is indeed a de facto MidEast leader. As it turns out you may be more observant than I gave you credit for.
posted by clevershark at 6:01 PM on October 6, 2005

Congregationalist -- United Church of Christ -- a denomination based on teachings of love and inclusion, not those of hate and exclusion.

As the son of a UCC minister, I can vouch for the fact that the Congregational Church / UCC is as far from the rabid conservativism inherent to much (not all, but much) evangelical christianity as it is possible to be while still being a denomination of the same religion.

(Remember their "Bouncer" advertisement?)

The UCC is inclusive and progressive, and, yes, Christian. It is a pity that so many other Christian denominations have allowed the theology and politics of hate, rather than of love, to dominate their discourse.
posted by dersins at 6:03 PM on October 6, 2005

is pretty much on my list of people too damn spooky to be given the red button codes.


posted by Heywood Mogroot at 6:17 PM on October 6, 2005

I gotta confess, if a native American chief invaded another tribe's land based on a Pink Floyd album, I would in fact find that interesting and potentially worthy of discussion in grad school. I'm just saying, is all. You know, like Manson and the Beatles.
posted by kimota at 6:18 PM on October 6, 2005

"It bolsters all of your derision of Christianity"
Which is well deserved, god boy.

I assume you deride, say, Islam with the same glib attitude - right? Only if it was fashionable amongst friends.

I don't expect a response.

I'm an atheist, by the way.
posted by dhoyt at 6:20 PM on October 6, 2005

oh man, if you combine the threads from the recent posts you get a masterful piece of flame-out by our pal dhoyt. keep going, please. "true colors" isn't even on the birth certificate.
posted by mr.marx at 6:23 PM on October 6, 2005

The ironic thing, at least it seems to me, is that God doesn't actually exist! Isn't that something?
posted by Pretty_Generic at 6:24 PM on October 6, 2005

God Talks to Bush

No man, God talks via a bush.
posted by Pretty_Generic at 6:41 PM on October 6, 2005

I assume you deride, say, Islam with the same glib attitude - right? Only if it was fashionable amongst friends.

Personally, I deride all religions equally viciously. I respect dhoyt's desire to make friends with all peoples, but fortunately my immense charisma allows me to do that AND constantly rip on their most cherished superstitions. "That's our PG!" they say, backslapping me, little recognising the steady water-torture of rationality that I cause to impinge upon their subconscious, to one day burst forth in a nervous-breakdown, a painful epiphany of clarity and insight into the opium that has for so long clouded their senses and their ability to live life truly freely, sans the grinding paranoia of being watched by omnipotent forces never truly understood. And so, I am at peace.
posted by Pretty_Generic at 6:53 PM on October 6, 2005

That's funny, your head is still on.
posted by Krrrlson at 6:55 PM on October 6, 2005

The Christian Paradox, from Harper's Magazine:

America is simultaneously the most professedly Christian of the developed nations and the least Christian in its behavior. That paradox--more important, perhaps, than the much touted ability of French women to stay thin on a diet of chocolate and cheese--illuminates the hollow at the core of our boastful, careening culture.
...
The more troubling explanation for this disconnect between belief and action, I think, is that most Americans--which means most believers--have replaced the Christianity of the Bible, with its call for deep sharing and personal sacrifice, with a competing creed.

Bush is dyslexic. It was his dog talking.

Wow, maybe he really is crazy.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:57 PM on October 6, 2005

I thought the bush had to burn for it to work.
posted by dabitch at 6:59 PM on October 6, 2005

Didn't anyone ever teach God to say "Please"?
posted by notmydesk at 7:21 PM on October 6, 2005

Personally, I deride all religions equally viciously.

That's what they all say.

Til it's time to deride The Other/Noble Savage/Underdog/Enemy-of-My-Enemy/Perceived "Exotic Religion".

Then suddenly everyone's shuffling their feet, glancing around awkwardly, and making tired jokes about Bush's resemblence to a monkey. Anything to avoid condemning the most outspokenly violent perversion of a religion in our lifetime. Keep on fiddlin'.
posted by dhoyt at 7:35 PM on October 6, 2005

Anything to avoid condemning the most outspokenly violent perversion of a religion in our lifetime. Keep on fiddlin'.

I don't understand, you don't think people here condemn terrorism?
posted by Edible Energy at 7:40 PM on October 6, 2005

Facts don't play with MidEast leaders. You know that. They need the influences of Allah/God/Spaghetti Monsters to provide context.

yeah, they're obviously not as sophisticated and well-read as you (and Bush) are.
posted by matteo at 7:41 PM on October 6, 2005

I assume you deride, say, Islam with the same glib attitude

no, that's your job here.
posted by matteo at 7:43 PM on October 6, 2005

Bush's resemblence to a monkey

no, that would be sinful, it implies that Darwin had a point, which he didn't, because earth is 4 thousand years old. you know, Bush (and his fundamentalist fans) are too sophisticated for that Darwin superstition.
posted by matteo at 7:45 PM on October 6, 2005

Anything to avoid condemning the most outspokenly violent perversion of a religion in our lifetime.

I honestly don't know what you mean. I have no problem saying that fundamentalist Islamic beliefs are evil stupid irrational a tad silly a valued part of our global community.

Oh, fuck it.
posted by Pretty_Generic at 7:45 PM on October 6, 2005

Till it's time to deride the Underdog?

No. Religion is bad for the planet. Period. It's also a dangerous amount of wilful ignorance.

Just many more times dangerous when the man in charge of all those nukes believes in the Rapture.
posted by dreamsign at 7:49 PM on October 6, 2005

Dhoyt, we get it. We get it. Everyone who disses on Christianity is secretly an Islamist. Okay? We admit it. The game's up. Every day, after I go about my business arguing with creationists and exposing greed and moral corruption in Christian churches, I drag my old prayer mat down to the mosque for some Allah-lovin'. Sometimes PG comes with me, and we discuss how best to defeat the Vile Western Infidels (VWI to those in the know). That's why you don't hear any condemnation of Islam in this threat. It has nothing to do with the fact that Bush is a Christian not a Muslim at all, although we hope to change that soon.
posted by Jimbob at 7:52 PM on October 6, 2005

I miss ham. :(
posted by Pretty_Generic at 7:54 PM on October 6, 2005

matteo, just fyi: MeFi's functionality actually allows you to put all three comments into one BIG comment. IE, you don't have to post three times...

Now watch this...

I honestly don't know what you mean. I have no problem saying that fundamentalist Islamic beliefs are evil stupid irrational a tad silly a valued part of our global community.

And yet, despite your claims of even-handed bravado, you are nowhere to be found in any thread about the latest blow-myself-up-for-allah disaster because saying aloud "something needs to be done about these people [jihadists]" is tantamount to siding with Bush on an issue. That concept, of course, could cause enough cognitive dissonance for so many MeFites, their poor heads would explode like some jihadist's knapsack. To condemn, or not to condemn. To find solutions, or to blame Bush for it all. You think Bush & Co. suffer from cognitive dissonance? Diagnose thyself. Civilian bombings, plane hijackings, celebratory waving of AK-47s, kidnappings and beheadings in the name of Allah were around long before Bush took office.
posted by dhoyt at 7:59 PM on October 6, 2005

Speaking for myself, dhoyt, it's because I don't actually care. I'm not afraid of the terrorists. I don't have to jump around and cry every time a bomb goes off because there are more pressing issues in my life, like falling down stairs or losing my dog. Osama can wave his AK-47 around all he likes, I've given up worrying.
posted by Jimbob at 8:03 PM on October 6, 2005

The Rev. Ted Haggard, president of the National Association of Evangelicals, also contradicted the president in a press statement, reported the Post. "The Christian God encourages freedom, love, forgiveness, prosperity and health," said Haggard.

Freedom - Check - support for USA PATRIOT act and providing Freedom to people in various jails so they can be stacked in naked pyramids.

Love - Check - See naked pyramids.

Forgiveness - Check - execution of prisoners

Prosperity - Check - Tax brakes for the well off and increased government spending in no-bid contracts.

Health - Check - using toxic heavy metals when shooting at people who don't appreciate the Freedom you are bringing them.


"The Muslim god appears to value the opposite."

Well then. Glad that's all sorted out.
posted by rough ashlar at 8:06 PM on October 6, 2005

God Talks to Bush

No man, God talks via a bush.

Errr, doesn't the bush have to be burning?
posted by rough ashlar at 8:06 PM on October 6, 2005

I hate Islamic terrorists. I am ashamed that my country could produce them. I wish there were fewer of them.

Attacking their spiritual homeland in the name of an equally fictitious god will not reduce their number. It will increase their number. This, we have learnt. Some of us knew it from day one. We are pragmatists. We know that if any solution is to be found, it is not through the method of making these men poorer and angrier and more outcast until they vanish away on rainbow unicorns; it can only be found through removing their motives.

We don't spend all day condemning terrorists because a) it's fucking obvious and b) they tend not to be democratically accountable elected officials or to attend shareholder's meetings, so our complaints would seem somewhat fruitless.

The Republicans gave Osama his power, and now they are giving him his troops. We don't like that.
posted by Pretty_Generic at 8:13 PM on October 6, 2005

MeFi's functionality actually allows you to put all three comments into one BIG comment. IE, you don't have to post three times...

I just try to spell things out more clearly when I'm talking to a special needs child, see?
posted by matteo at 8:15 PM on October 6, 2005

I don't have to jump around and cry every time a bomb goes off because there are more pressing issues in my life, like falling down stairs or losing my dog. Osama can wave his AK-47 around all he likes, I've given up worrying.

Easy for you to say. Tell it to the Londoners. Or the Spanish. Or the tourists in Bali. Or in Egypt. Or the mothers of children in Beslan. Or the Afghans who lived under the Taliban, or those who lived under Hussein. It's a global problem whether you want to acknowledge it—or can be bothered to care—or not. Your falling down the steps is a less pressing issue for our global neighbors.

For the record, I don't walk around each day worrying about, or even thinking about, the radical Islamists in question. When they blow themselves up in crowds of people all over the world—among people and cultures I've loved, and who don't deserve it—I've got no trouble saying it's of great concern. Next time the water system is poisoned, planes are hijacked or stadiums are imploded, I won't be looking over my shoulder for Billy Graham. I'll be looking for jihadists.

/kinda sorta Chris Rock
posted by dhoyt at 8:16 PM on October 6, 2005

What will Bush's Christian supporters think now that he's denied that God speaks to him?

Is this a case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't"?

Has anyone checked the translation? Perhaps the Palestinian ministers mean to say that Allah, not Jehovah, was the one Bush claims to be listening to?

It's reminding me of the old story about an earlier famous Texan: " .... asked his outraged campaign manager; “you know he doesn’t fuck pigs.” “Of course,” drawled LBJ. “But I’d sure as hell like to hear him deny it.” ...
posted by hank at 8:18 PM on October 6, 2005

ericb said: "Congregationalist -- United Church of Christ -- a denomination based on teachings of love and inclusion, not those of hate and exclusion."

Which explains why you abhor the evangelicals and their brand of Christianity. I see.

Isn't the UCC up there with Episcopalians, Friends and Unitarians in the "socioeconomic status" of its practicioners? As opposed to say the Assembly of God and Fire-Baptised Holiness denominations, which tend to draw from a more peasant-prole strata, I mean. My parent's United Methodist Church traditionally drew from the middling middle class, respectable but not fancy: we were the poorest members in our church except for the preacher's family.
posted by davy at 8:19 PM on October 6, 2005

dhoyt writes "Easy for you to say. Tell it to the Londoners. Or the Spanish. Or the tourists in Bali. Or in Egypt. Or the mothers of children in Beslan. Or the Afghans who lived under the Taliban, or those who lived under Hussein."

You forgot the estimated 15,000 civilian deaths in Iraq attributed to Operation Iraqi Freedom. I'm sure it's just an oversight though.

dhoyt writes "For the record, I don't walk around each day worrying about, or even thinking about, the radical Islamists in question."

You are not alone, no siree, you are not alone. (see the 3/13/02 quotes).
posted by clevershark at 8:22 PM on October 6, 2005

When they blow themselves up in crowds of people all over the world—among people and cultures I've loved, and who don't deserve it—I've got no trouble saying it's of great concern.

Oh it is of great concern. But so are other things. The terrorists can only harm us in three possible ways.

1. Take over our government. Sorry, it ain't gonna happen. The west held off communism for fourty years - a much stronger and more popularly acceptable ideology. A few thousand jihadists in balaklavas are not going to stage a coup in the Whitehouse. Don't Panic!

2. Harm us. Kill us. At this they've been pretty successful, because of a few very notable attacks. But for the average person, it's not a risk worth worrying about. If you are worried about that sort of probability, you would be better off locking yourself in your house and wearing a rubber jump suit, because statistically the risk is still minute. Cancer. Aids. Car crashes. Climate change. Bird flu. Famine. Energy shortage. These are the sort of things that will harm us, but I don't see Fox news putting up a little colour-coded graphic about them. Don't Panic!

3. Fear. On this front, the terrorists are way ahead. They've got us changing our laws. They've got us airing all their home videos on our evening news. They've turned Metafilter into a daily bitch session. They've got people vandalising mosques and spitting in the face of guys wearing turbans. People are afraid to catch planes or trains. We're doing Osama's work for him, nowdays, and people who dare to speak out against it are labelled as appeasers. Panic! This is the front in the "War on Terrorism" in which we can fight the good fight and preserve the democracy that we're told the terrorists hate so much. As your own fear reveals, they've got you too.
posted by Jimbob at 8:30 PM on October 6, 2005

Just for the record, I haven't talked to Bush since he begged me to help him kick the bottle. That guy was a mess; I tried to be a friend, I really did, but he refused to help himself. One night after slapping Laura following some heavy drinking, he told me to "butt out and mind my own fucking business". Fine, fuck that shit, I was outta there.

I actually ran in to him one last time on the campaign trail before the 2000 election. He was still bitter and cockier than ever; told me he found a "new god", one that wasn't afraid to scratch his back a little; not such a "total pussy". Whatever.

Anyway, thought I'd try and unmuddy the water a little; these things tend to spread themselves into established wisdom.
posted by God at 8:31 PM on October 6, 2005

Errr, doesn't the bush have to be burning?


And the Bush was not consumed.
posted by kosem at 8:31 PM on October 6, 2005

Can you guys please shut the fuck up for one second so we can find out what a knettergek is?

This is killing me, man.
posted by mkultra at 8:33 PM on October 6, 2005

I don't walk around each day worrying about, or even thinking about, the radical Islamists in question

BUT WHY?? THEY ARE A GLOBAL THREAT!!!
posted by mr.marx at 8:34 PM on October 6, 2005

Can we trust the Palestinian Prime Minister and his Foreign Minister? Or have they bit the hand that feeds them by making up lies? After all, Bush has said he is committed to a Palestinian state, why would the Prime Minister make up lies to hurt Bush? Or has Bush reniged on his promises and Palestine is stirring up a "holy war" in response..
posted by stbalbach at 8:35 PM on October 6, 2005

knettergek
posted by mr.marx at 8:37 PM on October 6, 2005

What will Bush's Christian supporters think now that he's denied that God speaks to him?

They'll probably think what they always thought: Bush, like them, is a moderate on religious matters. What "fundamentalist" worth his salt would DENY saying the bit about God speaking to him?? "Fanatics" aren't embarassed about such things.

I refer you to my previous comment, which is looking pretty accurate right now.

"The quote reads like misinterpreted, mistranslated, paraphrased bullshit, just exactly the kind of juicy tidbit the press loves."
posted by dhoyt at 8:38 PM on October 6, 2005

mkultra writes "Can you guys please shut the fuck up for one second so we can find out what a knettergek is?"

According to this video's title, I would guess it means "crazy" as in "Goofy is crazy about football."
posted by clevershark at 8:41 PM on October 6, 2005

No, knettergek.
posted by kosem at 8:41 PM on October 6, 2005

What "fundamentalist" worth his salt would DENY saying the bit about God speaking to him??

A fundamentalist who is also a politician?
posted by Jimbob at 8:43 PM on October 6, 2005

dhoyt writes "What 'fundamentalist' worth his salt would DENY saying the bit about God speaking to him??"

Give it up dude. Read your own fucking link. Bush denied nothing; McClellan did. I just don't believe that your reading skills are that bad -- your reality-denying skills, OTOH, have grown by leaps and bounds during the Bush II era.
posted by clevershark at 8:48 PM on October 6, 2005

I'm doubt Bush's own press secretary would deliberately undermine him if Bush really believed God spoke to him. And as president, he no doubt has bigger fish to fry than a dubious quote.

This entire scenario is sounding more and more wishful. You want badly for it to be true to affirm your own mistrust of Bush.
posted by dhoyt at 8:53 PM on October 6, 2005

This seems on par with a former Canadian Prime Minster who used to consult his dead mother on policy matters. Fortunately Mrs. King wasn't interested in world domination and couldn't have done much harm with the resources available to the Canadians of the day.

The US president being advised by the same guy that ran things in the old testament is somewhat scarier.
posted by missbossy at 9:04 PM on October 6, 2005

Bush denied nothing; McClellan did

Ah, yes ... the hapless front-man Scotty -- the same person who assured the world that "It's simply not true that [Rove] was involved in leaking classified information" relating to the Valerie Plame outing as a CIA covert agent. Yeah -- he's the voice of "fact," the voice of "reason."
posted by ericb at 9:10 PM on October 6, 2005

Bush is toast!
posted by ericb at 9:11 PM on October 6, 2005

My invisible friend told me to invade you and kick your ass.
posted by bigbigdog at 9:13 PM on October 6, 2005

Oops - wrong link for "assured the world" ... proper link here.
posted by ericb at 9:16 PM on October 6, 2005

I want to know if his god said "Simon says...".
posted by bouncebounce at 11:13 PM on October 6, 2005

See, I've been wondering something. If Bush (and I guess God) is so convinced that Hussein had to be removed from power... why is it that there's constant suicide bombings inside Iraq right now, but when Hussein and his son's "reign of terror" was happening, the bombings hardly ever happened?

There's a few possible explanations.

a) they did happen, but somehow all news was supressed
b) Hussein's security forces were immensely more effective than the combined efforts of Iraqi and American
c) they didn't happen, with all that implies

So yeah, something that's been bothering me.
posted by Talanvor at 12:05 AM on October 7, 2005

To knetter (v): to spark (as in fire, or perhaps, neurons)

Gek (n, adj.): crazy.

Literally: so crazy he sends off sparks.
posted by NekulturnY at 12:06 AM on October 7, 2005

And unless God’s a tease,
or his eyesight is iffy,
those WMDs
would be found in a jiffy.

I can't read that out loud without saying 'W' as dubya.
Which really amuses me.
posted by blacklite at 1:05 AM on October 7, 2005

I don't think the BBC would bring this story unless there was some truth to it. The BBC is one of the, if not the, world's most reputable news sources IMNSHO.

I don't hate Christians, Jews or Muslims. I do hate people who kill other people, though, and Bush has a lot of blood on his hands.

The fact that he says "God told me to do it" instead of "I did it for world peace" or something to that effect makes me sick.

Now The White House denies that Bush has ever said that. Fine with me. Whatever. Maybe he didn't say it. Maybe the BBC journalists have the story all wrong. I personally don't think so (see above) but maybe. Maybe we will never know the truth.

Your argument that I should hate every Jihadist with the same passion with which I hate Bush doesn't hold, though, dhoyt. Why? Because no Jihadist has the same amount of power Bush has.

The second that any Islamist, Spaghetti-Monster-worshipper or whatever takes office and starts sending people to war for any random reason such as "God told me to do it" you will be sure to find me in threads condemning that just as much as I am condemning this.
posted by sveskemus at 1:59 AM on October 7, 2005

Hooray! Open thread! Lets go crazy!
posted by Joeforking at 2:39 AM on October 7, 2005

Knettergek in my vocabulary would be "Stark raving mad" (and I'd have to agree)
posted by stFire at 3:51 AM on October 7, 2005

I wish God would've just told him to have another pretzel.
posted by alumshubby at 4:43 AM on October 7, 2005

dhoyt writes "I'm doubt Bush's own press secretary would deliberately undermine him if Bush really believed God spoke to him."

Hmm... let's see what you said before:

dhoyt writes "What 'fundamentalist' worth his salt would DENY saying the bit about God speaking to him??"

Bush undermines himself every time he opens his goddamn mouth. People like McClellan are around to spin and lie and desperately try to paint the image of a man who's not been overwhelmed by the Presidency from day one, and especially to paint the image of a man who doesn't listen to the little voices inside his own head. For fuck's sake, McClellan would say that he himself was the son of a Kenyan prostitute and a Japanese travelling salesman if Rove thought it was expedient for him to say so, and he would stick by what he said. It's his job.

Meantime Bush can turn to the loony Xian right and in effect send the message "I'm not denying this personally, if you catch my meaning."

This administration gets away with the shit it does precisely because it can play the American populace like goddamned fools.
posted by clevershark at 5:50 AM on October 7, 2005

Errr, doesn't the bush have to be burning?

Or singing.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:49 AM on October 7, 2005

clevershark: “This administration gets away with the shit it does precisely because it can play the American populace like goddamned fools.”

The thing is that it takes two to tango and willing victims are by no means blameless.
posted by bouncebounce at 7:50 AM on October 7, 2005

Anything to avoid condemning the most outspokenly violent perversion of a religion in our lifetime.

You mean Bush's perverse "Christian" bombings? Because, you know, those have killed many more innocent people than the scary Islamic terrorists. Tally it off in the "collateral damage" column, I guess. If a strategy violates common sense, I guess we should defer to the authorities... lord knows the intellectual classes of history have never fooled themselves into believing the most ridiculous claptrap...

You are living in a made-up world, dhoyt, populated by made-up people. You could not possibly misunderstand the criticisms of this pseudo-religious talk any more. I'm a Christian, and it makes me want to puke when I hear that lying, theiving, murdering SOB pulling the wool over sincere people's eyes. But I don't think you'll listen to any argument I could make. You'll pretend I'm just fetishizing the "other", regardless.

A rhertorical strawman is one thing. When you start believing the (obvious) strawmen are real, you have a serious problem.

There's no arguing with a true believer.

You want badly for it to be true to affirm your own mistrust of Bush.

I guess your argument is that this is probably a false anecdote? Look at what you're doing. You automatically deny anything that threatens your worldview, you believe anything that affirms it. You are losing your shit.
posted by sonofsamiam at 9:06 AM on October 7, 2005

a native American chief invaded another tribe's land based on a Pink Floyd album

Yes! Bopping down I-86 in the black '77 Trans-Am with his brother and nephew, and a two-four in the trunk. And when they arrive it's like "check out this album man, we're totally invading." And they all hang out around a campfire listening to Pink Floyd and have a barbecue.

I refuse to come back to reality, it's got to meet me halfway - at its' senses.
posted by CynicalKnight at 9:07 AM on October 7, 2005

"Knettergek" == electro-insane! cool
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 12:01 PM on October 7, 2005

"Errr, doesn't the bush have to be burning?"

Not necessarily:


posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:36 PM on October 7, 2005

matteo: I just try to spell things out more clearly when I'm talking to a special needs child, see?

Meoooooow, my Italian Lion. Meow! Hee.

A few thousand jihadists in balaklavas are not going to stage a coup in the Whitehouse.

I read that as "jihadists in baklava", and I thought to myself, why are the terrorists dipping themselves in honey and rolling in flaky filo dough? Although, truth be told, if I'm going have to worry about terrorists, I'd really prefer the honey dipped crunchy kind, please. ;)

God: Just for the record, I haven't talked to Bush since he begged me to help him kick the bottle.

Priceless!
posted by dejah420 at 9:17 PM on October 7, 2005

This administration gets away with the shit it does precisely because it can play the American populace like goddamned fools.
posted by clevershark at 5:50 AM PST on October 7 [!]

I'd be willing to say it's because the perceived pain of change is greater than the perceived pain of stick'n with the plan.
posted by rough ashlar at 11:16 AM on October 8, 2005

Funniest thread ever. Thanks for the laughs all.

and dhoyt, give it up man, you're definitely losing your shit trying to defend your bush god
posted by nofundy at 5:18 PM on October 8, 2005

Did Bush really say it? Skimmed thru the 132 comments. May have missed it.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 1:21 AM on October 9, 2005