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November 2nd - A day of protest
October 24, 2005 11:02 AM   Subscribe

Take this opportunity to get involved. November 2nd - A day of protest With possible indictments of senior Bush aides this week Bush has to be feeling the pressure. Reports point to a down and disillusioned president.
posted by Chris_awesome (73 comments total)

 
Bush may end up being arrested in Canada if a lawyer in Vancouver gets her way.

Initially tossed out, the case is back on again.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:13 AM on October 24, 2005


People look at all this and think of Hitler—and they are right to do so.

Wow, they Godwin out right on their main page. Things are going really well for the left at the moment, do we really have to be so shrill?
posted by gurple at 11:17 AM on October 24, 2005


"They describe him as beset but unbowed, convinced that history will vindicate the major decisions of his presidency even if they damage him and his party in the 2006 and 2008 elections."

I think the word he is looking for is "condemn." Or possibly "revile," "castigate," "denounce," etc...
posted by keswick at 11:18 AM on October 24, 2005


It took me a moment to figure out what a "wariniraq" was. It sounded like a Native American tribe to me, possibly from Canada.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:19 AM on October 24, 2005


Bush is so dismayed that "the only person escaping blame is the President himself," said a sympathetic official, who delicately termed such self-exoneration "illogical."

Aw. Poor Mr. President! Would you like a pretzel?
posted by scody at 11:20 AM on October 24, 2005


Pessimism is the best way to go here...best to not get your hopes up too much. And don't forget, the Democrats have a way of snatching defeat from the jaws of history.

Besides, what do you think the media would rather cover, an espionage case full of legal wrangling and subterfuge or the visceral impact of weatherman standing outside during a hurricane. Throw in a missing white girl and no one will even know who Valerie Plame is.

On a side note, some people need to storyboard out the whole Plame affair in something like Comic Life (website) so the people who haven't been following this can get up to speed.
posted by rzklkng at 11:21 AM on October 24, 2005


raw story says it was wurmser
who leaked plame's name to the press and to libby, who then told rove.
posted by about_time at 11:22 AM on October 24, 2005


this isn't the time to be playing the Plame game...
posted by NationalKato at 11:22 AM on October 24, 2005


I can't say that I buy into everything the main site claims. I'm not that polarized...yet. I just want truth and righteousness. For me, it's not about things going really well for the left or poorly for the right. It's about common sense decisions, and lack there of. Our leaders are smart, but they fail to surround themselves with those who are smarter, instead they rely on 'yes' men. That's their downfall in my opinion.
posted by Chris_awesome at 11:23 AM on October 24, 2005


This organization looks a bit odd to me.. the mention on the donation page that donations over $100 are tax deductable is odd...any donation to a non-profit is tax deductable...

This particular group is not a 501(c)(3), donations go through a group called Alliance for Global Justice (whose primary goal is to inform United States consumers about the conditions of women sweatshop workers) located in Washington, but they want you to send money to an office in New York, and they aren't big enough to support two offices..

And, they are, as mentioned, a bit shrill.

I would avoid this....
posted by HuronBob at 11:24 AM on October 24, 2005


My post wasn't a call to support the group, I should have been more clear, more than anything it was to get out and do something Novemver 2nd.
posted by Chris_awesome at 11:27 AM on October 24, 2005


"My post wasn't a call to support the group, I should have been more clear, more than anything it was to get out and do something Novemver 2nd."

That's contradictory... GYOB, dude.
posted by Heminator at 11:32 AM on October 24, 2005


Bush may end up being arrested in Canada if a lawyer in Vancouver gets her way.

Someone should lend her a copy of Don Quixote...

Anyway, shrill web sites such as the one above do nothing to help the progressive cause, and only serves to dilute the effectiveness of real progressive groups by allowing the Right to point to their eventual and inevitable failure to "drive out the Bush regime" through a protest march as a sign of the Left's hubris and political impotence.

But yeah, free Palestine, US out of Ohio, and all that jazz.
posted by SweetJesus at 11:33 AM on October 24, 2005


Do something on Nov. 2nd? Hmm, I'm not sure what I'm going to do that day. It is a wednesday, so I'll have to put out the trash and the recycling bin.
posted by jefbla at 11:35 AM on October 24, 2005


A Wednesday? Dude, I gotta work.
posted by smackfu at 11:37 AM on October 24, 2005


this isn't the time to be playing the Plame game...

Sure it is!

Plame, Plame, bo Blame, banana fanna fo Flame, fee fi mo Lame -- Plame!
posted by davejay at 11:44 AM on October 24, 2005


Work, smerk.
To that end, on November 2, the first anniversary of Bush's "re-election", we will take the first major step in this by organizing a truly massive day of resistance all over this country. People everywhere will walk out of school, they will take off work, they will come to the downtowns and town squares and set out from there, going through the streets and calling on many more to JOIN US. They will repudiate this criminal regime, making a powerful statement: "NO! THIS REGIME DOES NOT REPRESENT US! AND WE WILL DRIVE IT OUT!"
What is ousting Bush worth to you?
posted by wah at 11:50 AM on October 24, 2005


HuronBob writes "I would avoid this...."

But it's endorsed by Mumia Abu-Jamal!

It's a front for the RCP, right? Associating oneself with Bob Avakian is not a good way to gain political credibility.
posted by mr_roboto at 11:53 AM on October 24, 2005


Until the indictments are announced (if, indeed, any are), we need to be careful about counting our proverbial chickens.

One thing being a sports fan taught me is that there is no such thing as a sure win - and if you start celebrating too early, the disappointment of the loss is much, much worse.

When the frog marches start, I will remain quietly enjoy the spectacle. When the convictions come down, I will be pleased that our system works. When the sentences are too light, I will be a little disappointed, but not surprised. When the inevitable presidential pardons occur, I will be comforted by my cynicism.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:56 AM on October 24, 2005


What is ousting Bush worth to you?

How exactly is a shrill protest going to oust Bush? Nothing short of a military coup or being found with the skins of young children hung out to dry in the West Wing will oust Bush from office. I think you're being a bit naive.
posted by SweetJesus at 11:58 AM on October 24, 2005


"The specter of losing Rove, his only truly irreplaceable assistant, lies at the heart of Bush's distress."

I'm managing, barely, to remain dry-eyed at W's plight.

Things are going really well for the left at the moment, do we really have to be so shrill?

I won't speak to the shrillness, but it seems to me that the troubles in the current Administration do not automatically equal "things ... going really well for the left" -- merely the opportunity to suggest some sensible alternatives.
posted by alumshubby at 11:59 AM on October 24, 2005


Ask the first lady questions

http://www.whitehouse.gov/ask/question.html
posted by Chris_awesome at 12:00 PM on October 24, 2005


well, i'll be damned if that straight.com link from five fresh fish didn't give me a jrun error.
posted by quonsar at 12:04 PM on October 24, 2005


And, by the way, there won't be a "President Cheney" either — this movement is going to send Bush, Cheney and the rest of those fascists packing, and they can take their whole damn program with them.

This group thinks it will not only drive out Bush but the entire chain of presidential succession. That's cute.
posted by probablysteve at 12:09 PM on October 24, 2005


Ask the first lady questions

Was that an attempt at irony, or satire? Or was it just some didactic outburst to ponder why I furiously bathe myself with lye in a futile attempt to get the smell of dead-thread out of my skin.

Where are the intelligent, real angry liberals when you need them...
posted by SweetJesus at 12:09 PM on October 24, 2005


How exactly is a shrill protest going to oust Bush?

I have no idea. None at all.
posted by wah at 12:14 PM on October 24, 2005




I think its kind of sweet that Bush is scared of losing his beloved Turd Blossom. And then I remember that these are the asshats selling today, tomorrow and next week to creditors while they make billions for their already over-rich friends.

And then I start to daydream about chipper/shredders (man, I saw the biggest one ever on TLC this weekend!) and feeding these traitorous bastards in feet first.
posted by fenriq at 12:25 PM on October 24, 2005


My post wasn't a call to support the group, I should have been more clear, more than anything it was to get out and do something Novemver 2nd.
posted by Chris_awesome


You do realize this isn't your local democrat meetup group, right?
posted by justgary at 12:25 PM on October 24, 2005


I have no idea. None at all.

Awwwww, that's just adorable.

Too bad Americans are apathetic about politics, and no amount of "9 days till the END OF BUSH" and talks of "taking back our government" will change that. Americans have a hard enough time not paying their electric bills late, never mind toppling a system of entrenched power through formation marching...

How about you guys topple the Catholic Church next?
posted by SweetJesus at 12:26 PM on October 24, 2005


I have no idea. None at all.

Awwwww, that's just adorable. Too bad Americans are apathetic about politics


Not to mention that the situation in the US and the situation during Georgia's Rose Revolution are not really alike. But don't let that stop you! You're going to get Bush out of the White House this time! Unlike the last 73 marches and parades, which for some reason didn't seem to work...
posted by unreason at 12:36 PM on October 24, 2005


A March To Irrelevance
by Matt Taibbi

Hey, you assholes: The ‘60s are over!

I'm not talking about your white-guy fros, mutton-chops and beads. I'm not talking about your Che t-shirts or that wan, concerned, young Joanie Baez look on the faces of half of your women. I'm not even talking about skinny young potheads carrying wood puppets and joyously dancing in druid circles during a march to protest a bloody war.

I'm not harping on any of that. I could, but I won't. Because the protests of the last week in New York were more than a silly, off-key exercise in irrelevant chest-puffing. It was a colossal waste of political energy by a group of people with no sense of history, mission or tactics, a group of people so atomized and inured to its own powerlessness that it no longer even considers seeking anything beyond a fleeting helping of that worthless and disgusting media currency known as play.

I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea. I admire young people with political passion, and am enormously heartened by the sheer numbers of people who time after time turn out to protest this idiot president of ours. But at the same time, I think it is time that some responsible person in the progressive movement recognize that we have a serious problem our hands.

posted by jenleigh at 1:00 PM on October 24, 2005


You're going to get Bush out of the White House this time!

Sweet! Thanks for the vote of confidence. And here I was thinking that MeFi was full of snarky-too-cool-for-school types.
posted by wah at 1:09 PM on October 24, 2005


Call in sick on Nov. 2nd

There is no need for anyone to put their face out in public support of removing the President. There is no need for anyone to get their ass off the couch and onto the streets.

Calling in sick will achieve much the same goal: to let it be known how unhappy the population is. It is safe, it is easy, it is more or less anonymous.

If even 30% of the US workforce called in sick on a single day, it would be abundantly obvious to the politicians and public-at-large that The People Want Change.

It would motivate a helluva lot of politicians to start thinking.
posted by five fresh fish at 1:11 PM on October 24, 2005


You're going to get Bush out of the White House this time!

Sweet! Thanks for the vote of confidence. And here I was thinking that MeFi was full of snarky-too-cool-for-school types.
posted by wah at 4:09 PM EST on October 24 [!]


Sigh. Look, you can come up with all the snappy comebacks you want, but it's still not going to get Bush out of office, or even necessarily put a Democrat in office in 2008. I like your goals, I just wish you would try out new ways to reach them, instead of using the same protest tactics that have failed time after time. There is nothing rational about using methods that continue to fail every time.
posted by unreason at 1:13 PM on October 24, 2005


Next, on Geraldo: Innefectual protestors and the people who snipe at them.

Seriously, what is a bigger waste of time? Getting on the salad bar protest ("no blood for oil!", "free mumia") wagon, or shitting on the people that do? Taibbi's article is the epitome of this shit. He's detached coolness carries water for the man. He's worse than the worst degenerate yuppie sell out. The sixties were righteous man, but it can't ever happen that way again. So go home, buy some more iPods, eat some more McDonald's and STFU.
posted by psmealey at 1:19 PM on October 24, 2005


"Bush has to be feeling the pressure"

Pressure to what? Not run for another term due to constitutional limits?

Why are we even focusing on Bush anymore? He can't be President thrice. There is that whole neo-liberalism thing. War profiteering. Disaster capitalism. IMF voodoo and all that. The stinky jackbooted foot on which Bush is simply a gangrenous toenail. Maybe we could start looking to that stuff again. Or even just the atrophied state of the American political discourse. Please?
posted by poweredbybeard at 1:28 PM on October 24, 2005


Sweet! Thanks for the vote of confidence. And here I was thinking that MeFi was full of snarky-too-cool-for-school types.

Better than being full of naive, political-simpletons who think once the burning effigy count reaches a critical mass, everyone is going to pack up their shit, go home, and hand over the keys to the sandals-with-socks-crowd so they can drive the country for a whlie.

Right, I go with the cynics over the optimists every time. The cynics are usually right.
posted by SweetJesus at 1:31 PM on October 24, 2005


Oooooooh, red baiting. Fun fun yummy.

fff's got a good suggestion, too. Innovation is key.
posted by By The Grace of God at 1:36 PM on October 24, 2005


rzk - wonderful idea, more summaries are need. of this and other issues.

caddis - not sure what side your on, but you know, that man, Al Franken, was doing satire, speaking with irony . . . oh, nevermind,

re: "shrill" -- why are liberals always the shrill ones? what's not shrill about whining about gay marriage, about "legislating from the bench", about indignation and horror over blowjobs, etc.
posted by kingfisher, his musclebound cat at 1:37 PM on October 24, 2005


"shrill" -- why are liberals always the shrill ones?

They're not, but the conservatives can afford to be shrill, since they're winning. You have to show more skill when you're the underdog.
posted by unreason at 1:40 PM on October 24, 2005


mr_roboto: It's a front for the RCP, right? Associating oneself with Bob Avakian is not a good way to gain political credibility.

Exactly, which is why I was surprised to see a post for an Avakianite bunch on here. Most big protest movements have some left group or other behind them, but the Revolutionary Communist Party is, in all fairness, the one we all laugh at. (Well, them and the Spartacist League.) The November 2nd thing will be a great place to be offered copies of Revolution and not much more.
posted by graymouser at 1:42 PM on October 24, 2005


I like your goals, I just wish you would try out new ways to reach them, instead of using the same protest tactics that have failed time after time.

Which protest was it that occupied the Capital building again?
posted by wah at 1:47 PM on October 24, 2005


Uh, did you read Taibbi's WHOLE article, psmealey?

That's why the one thing that would have really shaken Middle America last week wasn't "creativity." It was something else: uniforms. Three hundred thousand people banging bongos and dressed like extras in an Oliver Stone movie scares no one in America. But 300,000 people in slacks and white button-down shirts, marching mute and angry in the direction of Your Town, would have instantly necessitated a new cabinet-level domestic security agency.

Why? Because 300,000 people who are capable of showing the unity and discipline to dress alike are also capable of doing more than just march. Which is important, because marching, as we have seen in the last few years, has been rendered basically useless. Before the war, Washington and New York saw the largest protests this country has seen since the '60s – and this not only did not stop the war, it didn't even motivate the opposition political party to nominate an anti-war candidate.

posted by foozleface at 1:49 PM on October 24, 2005


errr, Capitol, as the case may turn out to be.
posted by wah at 1:51 PM on October 24, 2005


Which protest was it that occupied the Capital building again?

Um, exactly how does occupying the Capital signify success? If you getthe guys you want in office, you're winning. If you don't, you're not. End of story. The fact is that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and company are still in office. You have failed to change this. Until this changes, your methods are not working, no matter how many marches you attend, or how many buildings you hold sit-in protests in. The goal of a protest is to change the policies of government, not to get on television.
posted by unreason at 1:55 PM on October 24, 2005


"He must know that the way he did that, relying on his own judgment and instinct, was not good," another key adviser said.

priceless.
posted by sic at 1:58 PM on October 24, 2005


true, unreason. Sad thing is we generate straw men quicker than we generate good arguments. And the right is excellent and grabbing those straw men and putting the spotlight on them.
posted by kingfisher, his musclebound cat at 2:00 PM on October 24, 2005


Seriously, what is a bigger waste of time? Getting on the salad bar protest ("no blood for oil!", "free mumia") wagon, or shitting on the people that do?

Well, obviously the first activity. Passively shitting on the protester's stated goals takes much less effort than it does to check MoveOn's meetup.com page, and haul your ass on a Greyhound down to Washington, DC to walk with the Anarcho-syndicists...

You know, it all comes down to the difference between being "right" and being "correct". You're right in principal, George Bush is bad for the country (etc), but you're ineffective and incorrect when it comes to taking action. You're just writing the talking points for them.

I don't know, or pretend to know, what an effective form of protest is against these kakistocrats, but it sure as hell isn't any of the protests I've seen on C-SPAN.
posted by SweetJesus at 2:04 PM on October 24, 2005


The fact is that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and company are still in office. You have failed to change this. Until this changes, your methods are not working,

Because dog knows Kerry would have been sooo much better.
posted by poweredbybeard at 2:05 PM on October 24, 2005


Half a million anti-war protesters descended on Washington before the war with Iraq, but he did it anyway.

He doesn't care.

He'll just trot out the "silent majority" argument that worked so well for Nixon, and continue to do as he pleases.
posted by Jatayu das at 2:12 PM on October 24, 2005


Our leaders are smart

Hmmm. You lost me there.
posted by xammerboy at 2:35 PM on October 24, 2005


Which protest was it that occupied the Capital building again?

The Black Panthers?
posted by kirkaracha at 2:38 PM on October 24, 2005


Hmm, not such a bad result, eh?
Passage of the Mulford Bill would essentially end the Panther Police Patrols, so the BPP sent a group to Sacramento, California on May 2nd, 1967 to protest. The group carried loaded rifles and shotguns, publicly displayed and entered the State Capitol building to read aloud Executive Mandate Number 1, which was in opposition to the Mulford Bill. They tried to enter the Assembly Chamber but were forced out of this public place where they then read Executive Mandate Number 1 out on the lawn.

The legislature responded by passing the bill, thus creating the Mulford Act, which was signed into law by Governor Ronald Reagan. This step by the Black Panther Party was enough to put them into national prominence and was a stimulus for growth of the party within the young Black population.
Relatively...
posted by wah at 3:08 PM on October 24, 2005


The purpose of getting Bush out of office in his second term - and having protests at all for that matter - is, supposedly, to encourage people to change a basic tenet of their political culture. Instead of being consumers of politics, these things are supposed to encourage people to be producers of politics - to engage, to make their own change, to feel and act empowered.

Part of the 30 year vertically integrated right wing media machine has been the marginalization of traditional protest tactics in achieving these aims. So we do need new methods.
posted by By The Grace of God at 3:09 PM on October 24, 2005


Phew. Where to begin with this thread. Personally I'm starting to think that the neocon movement is the best thing that ever happened to the left because maybe it isn't taking things (ideas, policy, accomplishments) for granted. It's been a massive irritant and it's made the progressive body politic stronger hopefully. (and yeah I'm writing in the past tense because shame on me, I am optimistic about this weeks upcoming "developments").

I think the left can come away stronger and smarter from these W years, if it can stop feeling so entitled and self-righteous. As crazy as it seems there are some deeply disturbed people in this country who have no problem turning it into a theocracy for there own gain. And Tiabbi is right, A new more viable/effective manner of protest needs to be found as political resistance and change is not some paisley swirly psychedelic gen X car commercial with Lenny Kravitz playing in the background.

Ask yourself qualities from the left would freak out the Christian right and the neoconservatives more then anything? Discipline and self sacrifice. A left that puts a greater good before it's own hedonistic desires and can remain focussed.

Where he's wrong is that he doesn't take into account how progressives have already been through that and are aware of how susceptible to abuse and corruption that set up can be. It's not anything to do with political bent but immutable human nature.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts abso-fucking -lutely as our history teachers thankfully never tired of reminding us, and a party that thrives on so called discipline and self sacrifice is about to witness some more of it's star players and genius architects and rock solid company men and fortunate sons in very very deep shite.

Hallelujah and Amen.
posted by Skygazer at 3:52 PM on October 24, 2005


when debt-ridden usa ends up inevitably defaulting on it's debt repayment (which is like, any day now) who the hell would have thought good old arch neocon shitebag wolfowitz would coincidentally be in exactly the right place to help out. bloody amazing.

i really must get ready for this next exciting episode of that never ending crap soap opera that is modern-day usa. it's performance comprises (apparently) a whole nation made up entirely of tv extras (or more precisely a nation of tv extra wannabe rejects).

you're all going for another ride tv extras, bus is ready and tickets prepaid. 'enjoy!' the ride
posted by rodney stewart at 4:40 PM on October 24, 2005


From the third link:
He's like the lion in winter," observed a political friend of Bush.

I was thinking he's more like a jackass in a shitstorm.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:43 PM on October 24, 2005


If the Republicans carry on the way they're going, there will eventually come a time when Bob Avakian and a Maoist revolution will start to look like a genuinely better alternative - even an alternative worth fighting for.

It's not too far away. All Bush and his successor need to do is carry on with their current batshit economic policies, and perhaps launch another pointless invasion, maybe Iran, so they need to re-introduce the draft... and ban abortion, so there's plenty of cannon fodder ready... and privatize everybody's state pension out of existence, so most people have nothing to lose, and bingo! A revolutionary situation!

All stand and salute for Chairman Bob!
posted by cleardawn at 4:43 PM on October 24, 2005


oop... wrong thread.
posted by rodney stewart at 4:47 PM on October 24, 2005


"in" is a tag? How exactly is this different than other 'change the world'-type organizations?
posted by my sock puppet account at 5:07 PM on October 24, 2005


hey check it out, Decani wrote a petition.
posted by nanojath at 5:49 PM on October 24, 2005


It's almost amusing that people think this affects the administration at all. Do you think that people who could orchestrate and pull off a coup in the most powerful nation on the planet without anyone in the world really so much as blinking an eye, are gonna be bothered by a little accusation of treason?
posted by nightchrome at 5:54 PM on October 24, 2005


nightchrome: Do you think that people who could orchestrate and pull off a coup in the most powerful nation on the planet without anyone in the world really so much as blinking an eye, are gonna be bothered by a little accusation of treason?

Your problem is that you think that the Avakianites care. This is an opportunity to sell some copies of Revolution and find some kids willing to give a lot of money to the RCP so Chairman Bob can continue to live in comfort as he is exiled in Paris, hiding from the FBI agents who are trying to kill him. (I think that's the "official" story.)
posted by graymouser at 6:10 PM on October 24, 2005


A day of protest! Wowee Kazowee. I thought the Big Day of Protest was last November, and more people protested against the protesters....
posted by ParisParamus at 6:30 PM on October 24, 2005


Truth is, the 2004 Presidential Election was likely the Left's last chance, at least in our lifetime, to influence national politics. Demographics are the deal knell for the Democrats, and people even further to the left. Sorry!
posted by ParisParamus at 6:35 PM on October 24, 2005


death knell!
posted by ParisParamus at 6:40 PM on October 24, 2005


Throw in a missing white girl and no one will even know who Valerie Plame is.

When's the last time you saw Valerie Plame? And she's white, isn't she? The media should be all over this thing.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:42 PM on October 24, 2005


Ask the first lady questions

i asked if she planned to visit george in prison and if so, how often. she ignored me.
posted by quonsar at 7:39 PM on October 24, 2005


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! It is so amusing to see yet another progresso-Demo-libera-lefty attempt to somehow bring down the President, using only shrill, meaningless rhetoric and the same discredited and idiotic spokespeople that they've used before.
posted by davidmsc at 7:47 PM on October 24, 2005


Don't look now, but the unraveling thread has now reached the Vice President.
posted by spock at 7:52 PM on October 24, 2005


Easy, big guy. The crazed "bwahaha" and "progresso-Demo-yadda-blah-blah" gambit causes you to sound more than a little panicky.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:02 PM on October 24, 2005


Maybe we could start looking to that stuff again. Or even just the atrophied state of the American political discourse.
posted by poweredbybeard at 1:28 PM PST on October 24 [!]


It's possible the atrophied state of Yankee political discourse is by design.


Hey, you assholes: The ‘60s are over!

Indeed. It's time to break out the firearms. I'm not sure this is Bush's last term.
Although even if it is, I don't see how much things will change. Erstwhile free speech afficianados and Gore supporters seemed to curiously misremember that little thing with Frank Zappa and the PMRC and Tipper Gore.

Lots of sneaky bastardy type stuff happened under Clinton. Folks who were "conservative" were howling to hang him for the blowjob crap, meanwhile laws were passed to allow the feds to get ahold of your bank records without telling you. Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc. got a lot of play, but the same type of crap happening now only gets a "they had it coming" from the right.


I think it's high time a lot more people got a lot more politically involved. Marches are an excellent way to form solidarity and make contacts.

But feel free "conservatives" on my side to ignore or belittle protest marches. Gee, they seemed to be a big hit in the Regan era (Solidarność? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?)

Ironic that Lech Walesa gets the same meaningless and discredited label in Poland. (Ran for President of Poland in 2000, got less than one percent of the vote)


I don't knee jerk deify Reagan. I think SAC-NORAD probably did a little more work maybe in their 40- 50-odd years trying to push the Soviets over than Regan did.

But he did support protest marches and dissident groups, etc. behind the Iron Curtain.

I'd think that if it worked there with people dodging machine gun fire from Soviet troops, it'd work here.


It's just that the half-assed college kids are too fat and lazy living off mom and dad to put the hacky sack down and REALLY organize and protest and strike.
That's not a snark, that's just a fact of life. People eat well in this country, even the poor - comparatively (exceptions of course for the extremely poor, who are universally starving and are exempted for this kind of duty).


Hell, I'm too comfortable myself to actually jump in the mosh. And I have a bunch of other irons in the fire that are more important to me.
But if things keep getting worse - and they're heading that way - it won't be long until there are some wolves in that crowd. They'll find and make other wolves. Pretty soon you've got a pack.


Of course people do seem to disappear when they start opposing wars.



But how is this still a left v. right or liberal v conservative thing in the face of greivances which must be addressed?
Some were started under Clinton and still haven't been addressed. Why? Because "our guy" is in office?
What the FBI is suddenly not doing anything wrong anymore?


The nebulous yet ubiquitous "they" have to smell what they're shoveling.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:06 PM on October 24, 2005


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