Comments on: Bring it on

Bring it on

allen.spaulding — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:45:34 -0800

"Because I publicly humiliated this lick-spittle senator Norman Coleman..." Storming Norm Coleman just doesn't know when to stop. He has aired new claims against George Galloway. Galloway, not surprisingly, has fought back, begging to be charged with perjury. Earlier was certainly entertaining, get some popcorn for this round. And get ready for even more uses of the word lickspittle.

By: Pollomacho

Pollomacho — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:57:47 -0800

Does keeping this "story" alive benefit Galloway or Coleman's political future more?

By: unreason

unreason — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:01:47 -0800

Does keeping this "story" alive benefit Galloway or Coleman's political future more? posted by Pollomacho at 10:57 AM EST on October 25 [!] Both. Incidentally, does anyone have any info on the substance, or lack thereof, of these new claims?

By: alumshubby

alumshubby — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:02:07 -0800

To hyphenate or not to hyphenate: that is the question.

By: SteveInMaine

SteveInMaine — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:03:03 -0800

It benefits the word lickspittle. When I heard this story and Galloway spewing forth on the radio this morning, it made me wonder if either side has nothing better to do than get into a pissing match. I guess it helps distract from real issues.

By: allen.spaulding

allen.spaulding — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:08:20 -0800

I mean, the transatlantic love is really showing these days. (I've sort of had enough of Phelps, so I kept this one out of the post)

By: By The Grace of God

By The Grace of God — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:16:52 -0800

We need ten more just like Galloway - playing hardball, holding forth magnificently against the war, and beating the Right at its own vicious game. What's more, Galloway's done more against terrorism than Tony Blair or anybody else, by encouraging disenfranchised Muslims to vote against the war.

By: johnny novak

johnny novak — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:23:19 -0800

Galloway is a nasty wee shyster, who'll jump on any bandwagon to serve his own ends. What we need is honest decent people to make the case against war. Not George Galloway.

By: planetkyoto

planetkyoto — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:25:51 -0800

Lickspittle. Awesome! (previously).

By: unreason

unreason — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:26:49 -0800

I know nothing about Galloway's truth or innocence. But because of his stances, there seems to be an odd dichotomy about him. The Right insists on his guilt, because they hate him. The Left insists on his innocence, because he's on their side. What I'd like to know is whether, putting politics aside, the accusations are true or not.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:27:27 -0800

MetaFilter: it benefits the word lickspittle.

By: OmieWise

OmieWise — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:30:45 -0800

unreason writes "I know nothing about Galloway's truth or innocence. But because of his stances, there seems to be an odd dichotomy about him. The Right insists on his guilt, because they hate him. The Left insists on his innocence, because he's on their side. What I'd like to know is whether, putting politics aside, the accusations are true or not." Me too!

By: OmieWise

OmieWise — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:31:26 -0800

Oh, but what I meant to add was that I see that kind of knowledge as pretty hard to come by in this current political climate.

By: By The Grace of God

By The Grace of God — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:33:52 -0800

The various accusations have been rebutted over and over again, and Galloway has won libel suits against British papers over them. When Galloway was invited to Congress to testify about the accusations, he rebutted them and used the stand as a bully pulpit to criticize the war.

By: unreason

unreason — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:36:01 -0800

The various accusations have been rebutted over and over again, and Galloway has won libel suits against British papers over them I know. If you read the articles, you will see that Mr. Galloway's opponents claim to have new evidence. It was regarding this that I was asking my question.

By: By The Grace of God

By The Grace of God — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:47:32 -0800

Well I can't find the report on the committee's report page, but Galloway seems to be begging them to bring a prosecution against him. Coleman claimed to introduce new evidence in the May hearing, and what he had were English translations of documents supposedly seized by GIs when they entered Saddam's palaces. Galloway questioned the translations and cited a Christian Science Monitor retraction of Iraqi documents on Galloway that they had cited, because the CSM discovered they were forgeries. I would love to read the report if anybody can find it - to see what sort of evidence Coleman claims to have uncovered.

By: 2sheets

2sheets — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:48:11 -0800

"you will see that Mr. Galloway's opponents claim to have new evidence." These are the same people who had "evidence" that there were WMD's leading up to the war, "evidence" that John Kerry wasn't really a war hero, "evidence" that Hillary Clinton was involved in the death of Vince Foster, and "evidence" that Bill Clinton was running a cocaine smuggling operation out of an Arkansas airport. Norm Coleman is a lying piece of shit. His minions and his aplogists here on mefi are the lowest form of scum. Bring it on, indeed.

By: twistedonion

twistedonion — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:51:31 -0800

I know. If you read the articles, you will see that Mr. Galloway's opponents claim to have new evidence. It was regarding this that I was asking my question. Galloway would be a complete idiot to refute these charges as voraciously as he does, were he not confident that he was innocent of any charges. That's what I reckon anyway. i find it very hard to like the man but I also find it hard not to admire him for stirring the shit when it needs stirred the most. Looking forward to seeing him at the Belfast Festival next week. Really hope these new events don't prompt him to cancel.

By: kickingtheground

kickingtheground — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:58:00 -0800

As far as I'm concerned, Coleman and Galloway can saw off one another's limbs with cheese graters.

By: fluffycreature

fluffycreature — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:10:51 -0800

To hyphenate or not to hyphenate: that is the question OED has a hyphen BTW. I lovin' this word...

By: insomnia_lj

insomnia_lj — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:19:32 -0800

From what I can tell, these new claims aren't particularly noteworthy. Galloway previously admitted that his astranged wife was a paid employee of the Miriam appeal, and that they paid her salary, covered their travel expenses on behalf of the group, etc. Galloway also admitted that the fund spent £200,000 on a Big Ben-to-Baghdad double decker bus publicity trip and £60,000 on a sanctions-busting flight to Baghdad, as well as visits by Galloway and his staff to the region. While you may disagree with the need for such expenses, what isn't seen in all of this is clear evidence of any great profit paid for by 23,000,000 barrels of Iraqi oil. Sounds more like a lot of political activist work, frankly. It's interesting that the same Republicans that want to bust Galloway for perjury for supposedly knowing his wife profited from money that was indirectly from Iraq despite any real proof, are the same ones saying that perjury charges against Rove, Libby, etc. would just be "technicalities".

By: troutfishing

troutfishing — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:21:22 -0800

I was going to say something, but the "cheese grater" quip sucked the words right out of me. Even though I disagree I also think that's one of the best one liners I've heard in a long time.

By: Busithoth

Busithoth — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:23:58 -0800

Galloway is a nasty wee shyster, who'll jump on any bandwagon to serve his own ends. What we need is honest decent people to make the case against war. Not George Galloway. posted by johnny novak at 11:23 AM EST on October 25 [!] We need a decent honest person to use Galloway's vocabulary. The same vim and verve would help a hell of lot, too.

By: deanc

deanc — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:28:05 -0800

What we need is honest decent people to make the case against war. Not George Galloway. Galloway's purpose isn't to make the case against the war. An honest person like that would be ground down by people trying to invent accusations of treason. Amateur grandstanders like Coleman need to be taken down by professionals like Galloway. And when it happens, it's a thing of beauty.

By: hortense

hortense — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:51:16 -0800

The documents were found by a "journalist" with the Telegraph. Richard Perle, was on the board of the paper,the documents are forgeries,TheTelegraph was sued.The Niger documents were also forgeries,welcome to the Neocon State of America,creating reality for you.

By: blacklite

blacklite — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:24:32 -0800

Galloway wields the English language like no one else who's graced a Senate courtroom in a very long time. I think this is great -- regardless of the motivations, having Coleman & Co shut down so handily and with such class is absolutely beautiful to watch. Even so, I don't suspect Galloway's motivations that much. I certainly haven't heard him tell a lie yet. (Of course, I'm a Canadian in the US, so I'm bound to love everyone who criticizes America.)

By: edgeways

edgeways — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:30:51 -0800

Coleman is the Senator of the state I live in. And while I know nothing about Galloway I do know Coleman is a jerk of the highest order. He is one of the "family values" candidates about whom it is a widely known "secret" in St. Paul, that he carries on with a mistress and who's family tends to stay out-of-state. Having an affair should not immediately disqualify you from public office. but espousing the sanctity of marriage and having a mistress, well there is a nice H word for that.

By: bardic

bardic — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:40:46 -0800

Weird that the Repubs would keep the oil for food thing alive, given how many American businessmen and likely party donors were involved, and now being busted.

By: Busithoth

Busithoth — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:46:42 -0800

bardoc, the details of that whole narrative will be the albatross around Coleman's campaign for re-election. That and getting handed your balls in front of your commission is kind of damaging, too. If you're vulnerable to external stimuli.

By: nkyad

nkyad — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:35:55 -0800

I distinctly remember Mr. Galloway performance at the US Senate as one of the funniest videos of the year. On that occasion, Mr. Coleman proved beyond reasonable doubt to be dumb as a door. That he chooses to pursue the matter even further make me wonder if he has some masochistic tendencies. We can only hope the next episodes are as good as the first one.

By: Pollomacho

Pollomacho — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:43:42 -0800

By: By The Grace of God

By The Grace of God — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:47:32 -0800

If Norm does invite George again, I'm going to DC again to watch, and let's have a MeFi meetup.

By: bobbyelliott

bobbyelliott — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:48:45 -0800

What I'd like to know is whether, putting politics aside, the accusations are true or not. What does Galloway have to do to prove his innocence? He has proven it time and time again (in and out of court), refuted every charge, received damages against newspapers, challenged anyone who says otherwise to take him to court - and still people like you ask if he is innocent.

By: unreason

unreason — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:58:18 -0800

He has proven it time and time again (in and out of court) No, as I read the accounts what he proved was that some of the news stories about him were libelous. That does not necessarily prove him innocent, nor does it cast guilt. refuted every charge These are new charges. They have not been disproven. and still people like you ask if he is innocent. I ask if he is innocent, because unlike most here, I don't care what his political positions are, I want to know what he did or did not do. If wanting to know the truth displeases you, then I find no reason not to incurr your displeasure.

By: Edame

Edame — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:02:53 -0800

I thought the Channel 4 report and interview tonight was pretty hostile.

By: nofundy

nofundy — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:13:39 -0800

These are new charges. They have not been disproven. Shouldn't have to be "disproven." Innocent until proven guilty and all that. Unless you want to "disprove" that you beat your spouse/whomever regularly to all us here at MeFi. In that case, we're waiting anxiously.

By: unreason

unreason — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:20:21 -0800

Innocent until proven guilty and all that. I didn't say that they did have to be disproven. I was responding to bobbyelliott, who had said that Galloway had proven his innocence. As for me, I just would like to be able to ask what the truth of the matter is without getting jumped on and accused of being a neo-con. Being against Bush doesn't mean ignoring any controversies surrounding his opponents. The fact that Bush and friends are corrupt does not mean that his opponents are pure as the driven snow. And it would be the height of hypocracy to investigate corruption in our enemies while ignoring it in our friends.

By: unreason

unreason — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:22:28 -0800

By: unreason

unreason — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:22:49 -0800

Ouch. Sorry about the double post.

By: COBRA!

COBRA! — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:50:31 -0800

Your accusation, edgeways, is interesting. Politically I may think he's a douche, but my wife grew up and was friends with with his daughter here in the Virginia suburban public schools and thus I have come to know the family. I have never heard or seen any evidence of this at all. True or not, maybe, but I've never seen or heard anything of the kind. I can't really verify edgeways' statement, but it's certainly one that you hear a lot in the Twin Cities-- might be totally untrue, but it's very widespread. A friend of mine has seen Big Norm pretty shamelessly hitting on women at a fancy bar in St. Paul.

By: nofundy

nofundy — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:05:16 -0800

Again, the burden of proof lies with Coleman and his cronies, not with Galloway to disprove spurious charges. Until then, it would be the height of hypocrisy to assume Galloway is guilty just because he tilts to the left very steeply. See how your argument goes both ways you evil righty?

By: unreason

unreason — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:10:04 -0800

Sigh. Nofundy, I'm only going to say this once more, since it's obvious that you'd prefer not to listen. I am not accusing Galloway. I neither believe nor disbelieve in his guilt or innocence. I just want to know what the truth is. If you can't accept that, fine. But you might as well cut it out with the Bush-esque "if you're not with me, you're against me" rhetoric.

By: jadepearl

jadepearl — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:43:17 -0800

On the Norm Coleman mistress thing: Garrison Keillor on Salon (sorry no link) had a pretty scathing essay about him and his "hobbies" and living arrangements with his wife. There are other stories floating around him and "young" women so even apolitical me has heard about them. On a different note, Coleman has a very good staff who respond quickly and make sure that their man is always available to the media. Unlike Mark Dayton and his staff who could not be bothered to reply to letters or get their man in the press in a positive way.

By: bobbyelliott

bobbyelliott — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:32:30 -0800

I neither believe nor disbelieve in his guilt or innocence. And that's why some people have a problem with your views. There are lots of reasons to presume him innocent (his successful court case, his performance at the Senate, his continual challenge to everyone to produce evidence against him etc etc etc) but absolutely no reason to believe him guilty. So why your ambivalence? Is it fair of me to accuse you of something without a shred of evidence and for someone to then say that they "neither believe nor disbelieve" your guilt?

By: lumpenprole

lumpenprole — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:31:08 -0800

boy that clip with Galloway clip just reminds us how much the british press loves to hold politicians feet to the fire. I certainly don't think the UK is some happy land of decent politicians because of it, but jesus wouldn't it be great if somebody with that kind of attitude would interview tom delay....

By: ParisParamus

ParisParamus — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:14:50 -0800

lumpenprole, that will never happen, because by American standards, doing so is MEAN. Which doesn't mean the Galloway isn't a RAT FINK; just that in the US, you only catch wind of someone blowing up later in the process. Go Norm, Go!

By: my sock puppet account

my sock puppet account — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:46:57 -0800

I can guarantee you that the average Minnesota voter, or even the active Minnesota voter doesn't give two fucks about George Galloway or even knows who he is or how he fits into the UN. But, the average Minnesota voter sure does like to see Norman pounding the gavel on television and giving it to the the UN.

By: troutfishing

troutfishing — Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:11:42 -0800

The average US family has what now : 1.27 kids or something like that ?

By: dhartung

dhartung — Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:25:05 -0800

Quite unfair to unreason. He asked whether there was more information on the new charges, and received only multiple responses that the prior charges had been disproven. I, too, am highly skeptical of this new "evidence", but I would also like to see it. Hitchens, for one, relished reading the report [here]. It appears that there is a money trail, although whether Galloway knowingly participated or was a dupe in a money-laundering scheme is less clear. It is, of course, probably interesting to certain people in this thread that Chalabi was up to his elbows in this whole thing, too.

By: dhartung

dhartung — Wed, 26 Oct 2005 02:19:45 -0800

(Whoops. Wrong Chalabi. There are so many of them.)

By: insomnia_lj

insomnia_lj — Wed, 26 Oct 2005 02:46:43 -0800

Hitchens is significantly offbase when he says flatout that Galloway solicited money, and that those who gave him a platform should admit that Galloway was bribed. By Hitchens' own admission, the evidence is primarily from a former Saddam official turned U.S. detainee, who faces a potential death penalty if he doesn't make a deal. Since when did Tariq Aziz regain his credibility, anyway? Really, Hitchens seems to think that the assumption of innocence only applies to the Bush administration. He should have the decency to wait until Galloway is actually charged with a crime before passing sentence. If Galloway gets legal donations to his charity from a businessman who does business with some shady characters, that's a crime. If other politicians do the same, that's lobbying.

By: By The Grace of God

By The Grace of God — Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:18:35 -0800

Yay dhartung for finding the report :)

By: COBRA!

COBRA! — Wed, 26 Oct 2005 06:49:28 -0800