Blackballed?
October 25, 2005 4:32 PM   Subscribe

Until now, the last World Series team without a black player was the 1953 New York Yankees. (via SpoFi)
posted by mr_crash_davis (85 comments total)
 
The thing is, I doubt it's deliberate racism. The Astros would put a one-eyed midget on the field if he could hit .300.

Then again, it's yet another reason to root for the White Sox.
posted by jonmc at 4:37 PM on October 25, 2005


". . . buy me some peanuts and CRACKER jacks . . . "
posted by Rawhide at 4:37 PM on October 25, 2005


I only need one reason to root for the White Sox and his name is Roger Clemens.

If Jeff Kent were still on the Astros that would be another reason.

By the way, Crash, how do you pronounce SpoFi? 'Cause it looks like it should be Spoofy and that's just plain wrong.
posted by fenriq at 4:42 PM on October 25, 2005


The Houston Astros don't care about black people.
posted by billysumday at 4:42 PM on October 25, 2005


13% of the population is black. 9% of the Major League Baseball players are. Close enough.
posted by smackfu at 4:42 PM on October 25, 2005


That is so racist! Why no story about the last time a team fielded an Eskimo player - ohhh of course, because this isn't a story either, just a sport fact dragged out for 300 words.
posted by DrDoberman at 4:42 PM on October 25, 2005


Interesting.


...you know the Sox are going to roll right over them, right?
posted by Smedleyman at 4:45 PM on October 25, 2005


"Crash, how do you pronounce SpoFi?"

I'd say "SPO-fye", but that's just me.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:47 PM on October 25, 2005


Baseball is totally a dying sport, so this is just one more death knell.

And there has still never been a female Major Leaguer.
posted by amberglow at 4:47 PM on October 25, 2005



Baseball is totally a dying sport, so this is just one more death knell.


Ba ha ha ha...oh that is a good one. Compared to what? Hockey? The NBA? Attendance has been up for most teams every year for the last few years. Doesn't look like dying to me.
posted by spicynuts at 4:52 PM on October 25, 2005


No black guys, or token black guy?
posted by fire&wings at 4:57 PM on October 25, 2005


So when 50% of NBA players and 44% of NFL players are black, there's no problem, but when only 6% of MLB players are black, it's a "huge, huge problem?" How does that work? In my mind, modern professional sports are the quintessence of the merit-based selection process, so there are only two significant factors in the racial makeup of professional sports teams 1) the racial makeup of the population pool as a whole, and 2) the personal decisions of each individual candidate of what sport to go into. If less black players are interested in getting very very good at baseball as in the past, how is this a problem for baseball? Is anyone really suggesting that there is some unjustified racial discrimination going on here? If so, what does that say about the racial composition of NFL and NBA teams? As a footnote, I think the whole concept of race is arbitrary and preposterous anyway, as the difficulty of racially "classifying" Derek Jeter exemplifies.
posted by banishedimmortal at 4:57 PM on October 25, 2005


And there has still never been a female Major Leaguer.

What the hell does that have to do with anything?
posted by tweak at 5:08 PM on October 25, 2005


"What the hell does that have to do with anything?"

amberglow throws like a girl.

KIDDING! JUST KIDDING!
posted by mr_crash_davis at 5:09 PM on October 25, 2005


What do you mean there's never been female major leaguers? Didn't you see the movie they made about them?
posted by fenriq at 5:15 PM on October 25, 2005


Unfortunately, the only correct answer someone connected with baseball can give is "this is a huge, huge problem." Why would you even bother to speak your mind when you'll just be pilloried for it and no real public debate will ensure?
posted by mullacc at 5:16 PM on October 25, 2005


What's weird to me is how international baseball has become. It's weird seeing players who aren't US citizens play the quintessential American sport. I don't get that same feeling when foreign players try out for the NBA or the NFL.

I think baseballs big problem is the lack of pick-up ability. You can throw a football around and even run posts. You can easily play any number for basketball. To get anything competitive going with baseball requires a significant amount of people, equipment and space.
posted by geoff. at 5:23 PM on October 25, 2005


An interesting tidbit. It's only a 'huge, huge problem' for baseball in respect to the game slowly losing a very important population demographic. Major League Baseball is still the mostly richly diverse major sport in the US and it's not even close.

In the battle for the black audience, it appears that Football and Basketball won the marketing war over baseball.
posted by my sock puppet account at 5:39 PM on October 25, 2005


Baseball is big business. It wants to attract people from all segments of society and if there are less black players, there will be less kids going to games, buying the products advertised during games, and becoming baseball players themselves. This is the current cycle. This is hardly an issue of racism (at least not at the player level).

As for baseball being a dying sport, well, it's actually doing quite well, thanks. I would love to have a piece of that pie. Hell, I'll take the crumbs that fall to the floor.
posted by a_day_late at 5:40 PM on October 25, 2005


Nine percent of baseball players in general are black, and not one person on Houston's twenty five man roster is black? What are the odds of that? Really, what are the odds? I aced statistics in college, but forgot everything even prior to graduation. Boy did I dislike that subject. Does anyone know the odds? My guess is they are really slim.
posted by caddis at 5:59 PM on October 25, 2005


Joe Morgan (about a similar issue on the Oakland A's this season): "'In this country, baseball has become an aristocratic sport,' said Morgan, speaking at a media event to spotlight tomorrow’s opening of the Hall of Fame exhibit at the Oakland Museum. 'I live in Danville, and 12-year-old kids have batting instructors. What black inner-city kid is going to have a batting instructor?'"

Morgan has been pushing for change for years.
posted by tpl1212 at 5:59 PM on October 25, 2005


And conversely, here's an interesting article (albeit from 1998) discussing whether athletics are "damaging the black community."
posted by tpl1212 at 6:05 PM on October 25, 2005


"Nine percent of baseball players in general are black, and not one person on Houston's twenty five man roster is black? What are the odds of that? Really, what are the odds?"

Making lots of unjustified assumptions of probabilistic independence, the chance that a random player is non-black is 91%, so the chance that 25 such players are all non-black is (91%)^25, which is about 9.5%.

So the chance that an individual team has a black player would be 90.5%; which means that, given 30 teams, the chance that all of them would have at least one black player is (90.5%)^30, or about 5%. So with 9% of players black and distributed randomly around the league, there's a 95% chance of there being one all-non-black team.

Um, more than you wanted and not really relevant to the article, right?
posted by escabeche at 6:05 PM on October 25, 2005


"...there's a 95% chance of there being one all-non-black team."

And a 100% chance of that team being from Texas.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:06 PM on October 25, 2005


Well, hey, let's consider that blacks aren't the only minority in America. Baseball is roughly 25% hispanic. This is almost double the 13% of the general population that is hispanic.

Combined MLB actually over represents the two largest minority groups when compared to the general population: 33% in mlb to 26% overall. (Asians, the next largest minority clock in at 4%, just FYI.) So unless you think hispanics aren't a real minority or our somehow not worth worrying about, I'd tone down the cries that their is some racism/classism in baseball.
posted by oddman at 6:08 PM on October 25, 2005


As a lifelong Boston Red Sox fan, I have to say that the Red Sox were the last major league team to have a black player (Pumpsie Green, 1960). Now the two greatest stars for the Red Sox are of African ancestry--but by way of the Dominican Republic. Does it concern me that David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez are "latinos" and not "gringos?" Not a bit. I revel in the fact that they are the greatest teammate sluggers since Irish Ruth and Kraut Gehrig. And they follow in the footsteps on the basepaths of many great Carribean major leaguers, from all of the Spanish-speaking countries where the National Pastime was exported.

I hate to say that I hadn't noticed that the Astros have no black players--I am rooting for the team with the mestizo Venezuelan manager and the Japanese second baseman and the tall black right fielder--and the Polish catcher! One of the greatest pleasures of baseball today is the international "rainbow coalition" that plays the game. If the Astros are the outlier of the trend, too bad for them.
posted by rdone at 6:08 PM on October 25, 2005


Don't worry, the Dominicans are coming. And then there will be black players--black players who speak Spanish!
posted by dame at 6:10 PM on October 25, 2005


escabeche: Cool, and quick. Thanks.

Relevant because it does not seem that strange given those odds that any given team has no black players.
posted by caddis at 6:11 PM on October 25, 2005


"As a lifelong Boston Red Sox fan, I have to say that the Red Sox were the last major league team to have a black player (Pumpsie Green, 1960). "

I don't think you said what you meant.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:14 PM on October 25, 2005


Ooo! And the team is from Texas! This obviously makes the President look bad!
posted by ParisParamus at 6:16 PM on October 25, 2005


Don't worry, the Dominicans are coming. And then there will be black players--black players who speak Spanish!

That ship sailed a long time ago. A Dominican buddy of mine from my bakery days told me that theres a town in the DR that only produces two kinds of notables: baseball players and dope smugglers.
posted by jonmc at 6:23 PM on October 25, 2005


The last time the White Sox won the World Series they were the infamous Black Sox. So this is all symmetrical as the universe purges its list of losers, the Red Sox, the White Sox and the Cubs. Next year, the Cubs opponents will have no bears on their team.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:23 PM on October 25, 2005


That ship sailed a long time ago.

If that were so, there would be more Dominicans than there are. The Dominican Deluge is coming, I say.
posted by dame at 6:25 PM on October 25, 2005


Anyway...

Joe Morgan played for the Astros for a number of years early in his career.

I don't agree with him about the 'aristocratic' comments. Look at most of the top players in the league, ARod, Tejada, Johan Santana, Dontrelle Willis (black) and none of those players have an aristocratic background. None. Sure, 14 year-olds with batting coaches will help them get into the little league world series, but when those kids lose interest, get sidetracked or something else, then it's the players with raw talent and desire (and for some a cocktail of drugs) that will make it into the stars. Baseball is not the new polo.
posted by my sock puppet account at 6:25 PM on October 25, 2005


[chiding] Paaaariiiis, you said you were going to be less inflamatory.
[/chiding]
posted by shmegegge at 6:30 PM on October 25, 2005


I thought that was interesting too - i noticed it in the ALCS. But it is only an odd chance. As for baseball being a dying sport. That is very wrong! Baseball is surging and America luvs it.
posted by flowfeel at 6:33 PM on October 25, 2005


"Ooo! And the team is from Texas! This obviously makes the President look bad!"

I suppose if the President wasn't a Harvard east-coast blue-blood that might be true.

Next strawman?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:41 PM on October 25, 2005


mr_crash_davis: " (quoting escabeche: "...there's a 95% chance of there being one all-non-black team."

And a 100% chance of that team being from Texas.
"



And you have the chutzpah to criticize ParisParamus? Bigun's you got, Crash.
posted by John Smallberries at 6:49 PM on October 25, 2005


Also, without a trace of snark, can someone explain to me why the fact that Willy Taveras was born in the Dominican Republic removes his African heritage from consideration? Note that the FPP speaks of the Astros lacking any black players, not African-Americans, which is at least debatable. Is being born in the Caribbean a disqualifier for being considered black?
posted by John Smallberries at 6:55 PM on October 25, 2005


"And you have the chutzpah to criticize ParisParamus?"

Yes, I do, because my tongue was lodged firmly in my cheek, and Paris' was lodged ... well, elsewhere, as usual.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:57 PM on October 25, 2005


So your sarcastic strawman is ironic humor, and Paris' sarcastic strawman is... not?

Wow, I sure am confused.
posted by John Smallberries at 6:59 PM on October 25, 2005


I hear ya dame, and they are going to make the Mets great next year!
posted by caddis at 7:00 PM on October 25, 2005


The White Sox have a disproportionate amount of men with funny-sounding names. So?
posted by WolfDaddy at 7:02 PM on October 25, 2005


"Wow, I sure am confused."

That's OK. Hang around a while longer and you might catch on.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 7:02 PM on October 25, 2005


Sorry, it's just been "no blacks on the Astros" and "RoofGate" all day long on the radio. If we're going to talk about the World Series in these contexts, I'd much rather talk about a fund-raiser with dios and rothko
posted by WolfDaddy at 7:06 PM on October 25, 2005


I had no idea that basketball and football were in such desperate need of an affirmative action program for white men.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 7:08 PM on October 25, 2005


"If we're going to talk about the World Series in these contexts, I'd much rather talk about a fund-raiser with dios and rothko"

Exactly what should be expected from a lily-white Houstonian.






(oh, and for those who aren't paying attention THAT WAS SARCASM.)
posted by mr_crash_davis at 7:10 PM on October 25, 2005


Ooo! And the team is from Texas! This obviously makes the President look bad!

I don't get it, pee pee. Either you're crying because people are dragging Bush into (arguably) irrelevant threads, or you're out there doing it yourself. Make up your mind already.
posted by joe lisboa at 7:12 PM on October 25, 2005


This is so stupid.
posted by es_de_bah at 7:13 PM on October 25, 2005


Lily-white? I'm more lo-fat milky thank you.
posted by WolfDaddy at 7:15 PM on October 25, 2005


To follow on to what John Smallberries said, Ezequiel Astacio is not exactly white either.
posted by smackfu at 7:19 PM on October 25, 2005


so what?
posted by blastrid at 7:32 PM on October 25, 2005


White....black....Chicago is the team with the guns. (Pitching)

Fron the link:
There are two or three teams that didn't have any African-American players this year....Black players accounted for just about 9 percent of big league rosters this season.

Kinda settles that racism = bad = Astros = bad = Bush = bad.


....folks do read the links right?


I mean someone wouldn't comment immediately without know what the hell they were talking about....right?
posted by Smedleyman at 7:44 PM on October 25, 2005


Never mind.
I misstyped "from" as "fron".

Crap, that invalidates my entire comment.
posted by Smedleyman at 7:45 PM on October 25, 2005


Yeah, it's creepy how white the Astros (and their fans) are. But, having gone to my share of Sox games, I also have to say that it's a bit sad to see that the Sox fan demographic is firmly pre-white flight southside. Meaning lots of working class white people coming into a majority black neighborhood, not very many of whom attend the games.

That said, seeing the diversity of that team gives me real joy. Even if black folks don't go to the games in any significant numbers, the makeup of the team matches the city. Same for Houston, I suppose.
posted by felix betachat at 7:46 PM on October 25, 2005


Oh, and GO VENEZUELA!
posted by felix betachat at 7:47 PM on October 25, 2005


we can't be absolutely sure about the reasons the astros don't have any black players, but i have to say that those of you who think any major league sports team (nfl, nba, nhl, mls, mlb) leaves *anything* to "random chance," might want to reconsider your position.

the whole point of statistical analysis (moneyball), game film, scouts all across the country and internationally, general managers, assistant coaches, rotations, line-ups, gamebooks, signals, and all that other crap is to render things so that chance has a little effect on their operation as possible.

that said, i find this tidbit interesting: in a recent feature in sports illustrated, craig biggio was asked what song in particular he hates. his reply was: "rap music. all of it." the man, of course, has a right to hate whatever music he wants -- i listened to rap damn near exclusively growing up, but i've grown tired of its emphasis on crass consumerism, pointless violence, and predatory sexuality -- but i find that quote quite telling. many, though by no means all, black players like to have hip hop music in the dugout or as their at bat music. clubhouse chemistry is very important for team success, so maybe big's attitude is shared by others on the team, and that influences personnel decisions.

we'll never know, but i must say i find myself disliking the astros a little bit b/c of their makeup. (please spare me the "that says more about you than the astros, you're a racist!!!!" posts. yes, i'm a racist. so are you, punchy.)
posted by lord_wolf at 8:20 PM on October 25, 2005


Charlton Jimerson is on their 40-man, but not on their World Series Roster. He got into a game as a late season call up in September. They also have at least 6 black American, non-latin players on their AAA team, the Round Rock Express. They'll be getting blacker soon, unless they trade them all away. Also, black rappers compose songs just for the Astros, so they must not be all bad (actually, I'm not sure Paul Wall is black. Depends on the photo). And they just had a moment of silence for Rosa Parks in Houston. Whatever that means.
posted by loquax at 8:27 PM on October 25, 2005


Don't forget Aaron Neville, loquax!
posted by felix betachat at 8:29 PM on October 25, 2005


Oh yeah! That was something. What I'm not sure, but something.
posted by loquax at 8:35 PM on October 25, 2005


This post reminds me of people who can't rest without finding some horrendous sign of racism in some aspect of society once a day. There is no white cabal (except in the White House) that is acting to keep black players out of baseball. Yeesh.

Tomorrow, lets discuss the absence of black performers in the country music genre. We all know they're out there, but being unfairly denied the chance to do the Grand Ol' Opry.

The day after that, lets discuss the absence of hispanics in badminton. Something MUST be done.
posted by Atreides at 8:44 PM on October 25, 2005


White....black....Chicago is the team with the guns. (Pitching)

What are you smoking, and where can I get some? Clemens, Pettitte, and Oswalt are some of the best pitchers in the game.
posted by TheSpook at 9:17 PM on October 25, 2005


oddman makes an excellent observation, one which I would have forewarded if he had not.

So what? Is the point of the post saying that the owner Drayton McLane Jr. is a bigot (he did go to Baylor) or is Tim Purpura a bigot? Or did the players that made sense (financially, and chemistry-ist [chemically?]) happened to not include any players with African ancestry?

Bah. Tempest in a teapot.

Others have made excellent points - it's not statistically aberent, and that phenotype can proportionally induce people to identify/join different social groups (nothing to do with economics - just the social) - and those different social groups have different favourite sports.

Ice hockey, anyone? Cricket? Oooh... there are way greater percentage of people from the Indian subcontinent in professional cricket than subcontinential Indians as a percentage of the world population (Atreides - I'd love to say something about badminton, but - yeah, it is mostly [us/me] yellow people, at least in Vancouver, CA)
posted by PurplePorpoise at 9:23 PM on October 25, 2005


The Mariners had one. "This phenomenon is hardly unique to Strong, or the Mariners. Five teams — the Boston Red Sox, Baltimore Orioles, Houston Astros, Atlanta Braves and Colorado Rockies — had no African-American players on their active rosters as of Monday [August 22], while several other teams had just one or two."
posted by milkrate at 9:50 PM on October 25, 2005


There is no white cabal (except in the White House) that is acting to keep black players out of baseball. Yeesh.

I think it's an interesting question, this segregation by sport. No blacks on a championship basketball team would be unthinkable.

Is there a color line? Perhaps. The segregation starts early, from T-ball on up. I'm not going to bother to read this thread but a quick search for the words 'suburb' and 'urban' yielded nothing.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 10:03 PM on October 25, 2005




We're in the 14th inning. It's been a wild game. Why are you people still talking?
posted by WolfDaddy at 10:51 PM on October 25, 2005


Who's talking?
posted by felix betachat at 10:59 PM on October 25, 2005


WolfDaddy
= ( Gaah....the game was indeed wild, but it's so depressing. We (the Astros) had so many chances...

posted by Sangermaine at 12:15 AM on October 26, 2005


And...forgot to close that bold tag. ::sigh::
posted by Sangermaine at 12:15 AM on October 26, 2005


Ah, the race card...I think the dark-skinned Hispanic players are playing violins now for sports. Yay sports, that microcosm of our society.


May Joe "King Of The Obvious" Morgan die a long, painful death from prostate cancer. Jesus Christ he is a fucking savante douchbag. We get it Joe...we get it....when YOU played, you had to hit it 800 feet for it to be even considered a home run. Please die, asshole.
posted by mrblondemang at 2:56 AM on October 26, 2005


mrblondemang: May Joe "King Of The Obvious" Morgan die a long, painful death from prostate cancer...Please die, asshole.

Charitable of you.
posted by tpl1212 at 3:31 AM on October 26, 2005


Someone seems to relish the thoughts of others dying. Sad.
posted by caddis at 4:51 AM on October 26, 2005


I'm just glad I went to bed when it went into overtime; had I been an Astros fan, I'd have stayed up till 2:30 AM and seen my team lose. (Actually, the Astros are reminiscent of my very own Mets in their inability to score guys from third.) What I want to know is, where does the "commissioner" get off telling the Astros what to do with their roof?
posted by languagehat at 5:48 AM on October 26, 2005


Heh, languagehat and sangermaine ... I'm long accustomed to the Astros--Houston teams in general, it seems--having to claw and fight for every step of the way. Let's not forget that this team was 15-30 at the end of May. That they're in the Series now is nothing short of amazing.

However, the Sox aren't rattled. The Astros are. Whatever psychological edge we had when we had what it took to beat the Cards is gone.

And as for "Roofgate" ... well, that only contributes to the psychological factor. Garner pooh-poohed the whole thing for the most part, but there were some players that were very pissed off and it got to them. My feeling is that the commish's decision shows inconsistency--the room was closed for all prior playoff games regardless of weather--but what can you do at this point? We gotta bite down and focus.

...god I don't want to be swept in our own town...
posted by WolfDaddy at 6:04 AM on October 26, 2005


Clemens, Pettitte, and Oswalt are some of the best pitchers in the game.

That's true, but to me it's looked like all of them have been off in the games they've pitched so far in the series. Oswalt totally shut down the Cardinals, but he wasn't the same against the White Sox and the manager left them in too long after they figured out how to hit him. You can't let the other team bat around in a must-win game in the World Series.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:19 AM on October 26, 2005


Clemens and Petitte have been on/off pitchers for the last few years now. They're no longer the guaranteed aces they used to be.

As for the roof issue, poor Astros...
posted by Atreides at 8:33 AM on October 26, 2005


Screw the roof! Can we get a consistent strike zone? :-) The 'stros and the Sox would appreciate it.
posted by WolfDaddy at 9:23 AM on October 26, 2005


What about the hispanics on the team especiall Willy Talveras LINK:

or Ezequiel F. Astacio LINK: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7516

or Jose Vizcaino LINK: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4428

They are dominican so technically they are hispanic but can anyone here tell me he doen't look like he came from some African ancestry... maybe the person who wrote that article just read names never actually whatched an Astros' game before... that seems pretty classic of a yankee journalist... like when Chris Mathews asked Gov. Perry (of Texas) how he got the Astros to give up the Astrodome for the Katrina evacuees and Perry doesn't know what to because Houston built them a new stadium four or five years ago...

I think this is also intersting bc the hispanic population is growing so quickly in the U.S.... maybe it isn't an "invaision" like Lou Dobbs and others want to make it out to be... but that more and more people are asociating with hispanic culture bc one of their parents is full or half hispanic and they are thus exposed from a young age to that culture...

Of coure one could say that the exception proves the rule and that pointing these guys out just make the rest of the team even more white... but the tilte of the article is "Astros Roster Has No Black Players" so one would expect not to find ANY black players... but of course like almost all media these days ABC is trying to make a story where there is none.
posted by graham1881 at 9:30 AM on October 26, 2005


here is the talveras link http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7269
posted by graham1881 at 9:31 AM on October 26, 2005


Christ, some of you think the Astros did this on purpose?

lord_wolf, in particular, spouting off about Biggio and presumed clubhouse chemistry, without knowing a thing about the man. My word.

Worst of Metafilter.
posted by deadfather at 9:39 AM on October 26, 2005


Is each baseball team now required to have at least one black player? What tripe. What pablum. God bless the Astros and God bless America.
posted by kjh at 1:29 PM on October 26, 2005


craig biggio was asked what song in particular he hates. his reply was: "rap music. all of it." the man, of course, has a right to hate whatever music he wants but i find that quote quite telling. many, though by no means all, black players like to have hip hop music in the dugout or as their at bat music.

I can't stand Golden Oldies, does that mean I hate my parents?
posted by my sock puppet account at 3:33 PM on October 26, 2005


Yes, yes it does.

Nice to see that a couple of people tried to right this conversation back to what's interesting: the decline of a major American demographic's participation in the sport.
posted by klangklangston at 5:13 PM on October 26, 2005


Baseball is totally a dying sport, so this is just one more death knell.
posted by amberglow


Major League Baseball set a new attendance record this year as ballparks around the league drew nearly 75 million fans. The official number from MLB’s press release is 74,915,268, which was a 2.6 percent increase over last year's 73,022,969, also a previous record. On average, 30.970 fans went to each and every baseball game this season.
posted by justgary at 7:56 PM on October 28, 2005


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