You say potato, I say potato; you say tomato, I say tomato.

November 17, 2005 7:31 PM

This year “some people wanted the word ‘brainstorming’ replaced by ‘thought shower’ so as not to offend people with brain disorders, and they also wanted ‘deferred success’ to replace ‘failure’ so as not to embarrass those who don’t succeed.” These words and phrases are just a couple cited by Global Language Monitor as the year’s most politically correct words and phrases.

The phrase that topped this year’s list was ‘misguided criminals,’ one of several terms the British Broadcasting Corp. used so as not to use the word ‘terrorist’ in describing those who carried out train and bus bombings in London this summer.

Ninth on the top 10 list were words and phrases that de-Christianize the Christian holidays – such as “Seasons Greetings” replacing “Merry Christmas” – a practice that has upset some American Catholics, demanding that customers of Wal-Mart boycott the retail chain until they drop the phrase “Happy Holidays” and return to using “Merry Christmas.”
posted by ericb (65 comments total)

OMG the politically correct are trying to take over the world! Soon, we will be forced to live in gulags if we refuse to refer to short people as being "vertically challenged".

I was waiting for the annual "libruls are trying to steal Christmas" meme to show up again, and it came later than usual this year - I thought we might have gotten away without it, but no such luck.

demanding that customers of Wal-Mart boycott the retail chain until they drop the phrase “Happy Holidays” and return to using “Merry Christmas.”

I would suggest they boycott Wal-Mart anyway because if Christmas is a real Christian festival, I'd wager it has nothing to do with buying garish decorations and presents at low-low prices.
posted by Jimbob at 7:49 PM on November 17, 2005

And with that, I raise you a homicide bomber.
posted by Jimbob at 7:49 PM on November 17, 2005

That Merry Christmas v. Happy Holidays thing drives me up the fucking wall. I have conservative relatives (not religious, mind you) who, thanks to O'Reilly's fear-mongering, say they're afraid of saying Merry Christmas for fear of P.C. retribution.

I, as an atheist who celebrates Christmas because of family tradition, am afraid of saying Happy Holidays for fear that some Holy Roller, hopped up on Fox News and a sense of victimhood, will tear my head off. This is nonsense. You'd think that conservatives, ostensibly capitalists, would realize that Wal-Mart's decision to switch to Season's Greetings is a good move. It doesn't alienate non-Christians/potential customers. P.C. is a two way street, and it's ridiculous both ways.
posted by brundlefly at 7:53 PM on November 17, 2005

“some people wanted the word ‘brainstorming’ replaced by ‘thought shower’ so as not to offend people with brain disorders" and they ended up offending people that have thoughts. It's like the Mitch Headberg joke about not waving because people without hands might think you're being cocky.
posted by I Foody at 7:55 PM on November 17, 2005

Anything that gets people to boycott Wal-Mart isn't such a bad thing in my book. Merry X-mas everyone!
posted by fenriq at 8:00 PM on November 17, 2005

...people without hands might think you're being cocky.
And there you go offending women again.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 8:02 PM on November 17, 2005

The only thing more annoying than the PC-police: the PC-police-police.
posted by signal at 8:03 PM on November 17, 2005

politcal correctness is for faggots.
posted by keswick at 8:05 PM on November 17, 2005

...the PC-police-police.
Now with enhanced interrogation techniques!
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 8:06 PM on November 17, 2005

Seriously, say whatever the fuck you want. Or don't.
Just shut up about it.
posted by signal at 8:06 PM on November 17, 2005

Wow, that link to lifesitenet is pretty odd. Here's the alleged email they got from a Wal-Mart employee:

"[...] The majority of the world still has different practices other than 'christmas' which is an ancient tradition that has its roots in Siberian shamanism. The colors associated with 'christmas' red and white are actually a representation of the aminita mascera mushroom. Santa is also borrowed from the Caucuses, mistletoe from the Celts, yule log from the Goths, the time from the Visigoth and the tree from the worship of Baal. It is a wide wide world."

In this case I would have to agree that if this email was actually sent to someone, the sender was most likely drunk.

Side note: I ate a lot of amanita mascera back in college, but in the end I just couldn't handle the streaks
posted by whir at 8:08 PM on November 17, 2005

There's something so crusty about complaining about PC terms. If terms are truly ridiculous (as some of these are), they just don't last, and their adeherents stop trying to promote them. There's no need to stomp them down as though they're a growing scourge.

This sort of thing just gets used to try and rile up the reactionaries so they'll be even more encouraged to assume their own supremacy. For the most part, what gets termed 'PC' is what I would simply call respect and invlusiveness.

And the Global Language Monitor? An interesting site, but teetering on the edge of legit. I see that the "worldwide assemblage of linguists, professional wordsmiths, and bibliophiles" are frequently cited on major news outlets, but some poking around quickly reveals that this vile piece of web design appears to have two reasons to exist: 1) to drum up business for the dude's language consulting firm, and 2) to communicate its support for the U.S. Republican agenda.
posted by Miko at 8:08 PM on November 17, 2005

adherents. Damn.
posted by Miko at 8:09 PM on November 17, 2005

And inclusiveness, damn again.
posted by Miko at 8:10 PM on November 17, 2005

jesus christ, if you're so anal that you feel compelled to correct yourself not once but TWICE, why not proofread it BEFORE YOU SUBMIT IT, FOR FUCK'S SAKE?
posted by keswick at 8:12 PM on November 17, 2005

It's so weird that so many live in fear of speaking.
posted by nightchrome at 8:13 PM on November 17, 2005

I think it's kind of redundant to make fun of the overly-PC crowd. People can go around referring to "delayed success" and "thought showers" all they want - that doesn't mean those phrases are actually going to catch on.

Language is a pretty fluid thing, but one thing I've noticed is that heavy-handed attempts to change it are usually met with resentment and derision.
posted by afroblanca at 8:14 PM on November 17, 2005

Happy festival of the harvest, happy Solstice! May the light rise soon, and take us into a new, more peaceful year. May Jesus, buried in India, where he lived to a ripe old age, and had several sons with Mary Of Magdala, rest peacefully in spite of our many attempts to subvert time, past and future. May the liars that sought to obscure this fact, be brought to counts ultimately, and may this world go on, every mosquito, and frog, bird, and whale, human, and monkey, elephant, dog, and dolphin. May God's child turn this world over, and watch it like bag of sea monkeys, while all the bridges we didn't yet demolish, hang upside down, spilling cars.
Here's to those we shall sadly miss in the year to come...the hunter that didn't come home from the hill, and the sailor that didn't come home from the sea, the sparrow that fell, and the ringing bell blown to us in the wind, but lost to the local penetents.
The rest of the whole commercial process well, just come to me in the quiet and cold evening, blot out some stars, and remind me of why I love the winter, and wait, faithfully for the first signs of spring.
posted by Oyéah at 8:14 PM on November 17, 2005

That was kind of beautiful, in a crackpot sort of way.
posted by nightchrome at 8:18 PM on November 17, 2005

jesus christ, if you're so anal that you feel compelled to correct yourself not once but TWICE, why not proofread it BEFORE YOU SUBMIT IT, FOR FUCK'S SAKE?


Well, I've got to do it before someone else does. Take a deep breath.
posted by Miko at 8:25 PM on November 17, 2005

Oh yeah, and I forgot, talk is cheap, even politically correct talk. Political correctness is no substitute for taking a moment to see to who is in front of you, or audit what is about to exit your mouth, in fact, PC is the ultimate cheap suit, in my crackpot, but kind of beautiful opinion.
posted by Oyéah at 8:40 PM on November 17, 2005

resentment and derision.

And then I saw the Congo,
Creeping through the black,
Cutting through the jungle
With a golden track.

Jungle bells, jungle bells
Jungle all the way...
Oh what fun!
posted by Oyéah at 8:43 PM on November 17, 2005

May God's child turn this world over, and watch it like bag of sea monkeys, while all the bridges we didn't yet demolish, hang upside down, spilling cars.

Wow. That made my MeFi day. Happy Solstice to you too, Oyéah.
posted by ottereroticist at 8:46 PM on November 17, 2005

Language is a pretty fluid thing, but one thing I've noticed is that heavy-handed attempts to change it are usually met with resentment and derision.

Everything is met with resentment and derision. First, people said words like "failure". Then some people met that with resentment and derision, and decided we should say "deferred success". Then some more people met that with resentment and derision, and made lists on the internet linked to on Mefi at top. Then some people read those lists, and met them with resentment and derision. At some point, were just talking about the "PC Police Police Police Police Police Police Police
posted by Bugbread at 10:05 PM on November 17, 2005

Everything is met with resentment and derision.

True. However, I'm speaking of particularly heavy handed attempts to change the language. I mean, it's obvious that people aren't going to start going around saying "deferred success." It's just a ridiculous idea. It obviously represents the attempts by one or a few to singlehandedly change the language. We laugh at such things.

Language does change, but it does so slowly over time, and usually in response to some sort of need or shortfall. For example, the phrase "African-American" caught on because enough people thought that we needed a bias-free, non-loaded way to refer to Americans of African origin. However, the word "womyn" has never caught on - even though I have seen many "gender neutral" dictionaries over the years. One can only assume that, to most people, the word "woman" having the word "man" in it is just not a big deal.
posted by afroblanca at 10:51 PM on November 17, 2005

African-American is a bad example, because it is starting to become a prime case of excessive PC usage. There were silly cases of people on CNN referring to people in the Paris riots as African-American. There's also the anecdote about Jay Leno's wife grasping at how to differentiate between whites and blacks in Africa, and how she settled on using the term "African American Africans". Whenever you start forcing language into artificial shapes, it eventually becomes something stupid.
posted by nightchrome at 11:00 PM on November 17, 2005

Did you know that the word "team" used to have the letter "I" in it? Big government, the corporations, and the illuminati eliminated it through a massive Chomskyite propaganda campaign.

It's true.
posted by moonbiter at 11:13 PM on November 17, 2005

And while Western feminists were campaigning to purge language of hurtful and insensitive words, half the women in the world were living in, or being herded into lifestyles of practical slavery. But I guess it's politically incorrect to make value judgements about other cultures.
posted by slatternus at 11:19 PM on November 17, 2005

moonbiter: there may no longer be an "i" in team, but there's still and "m" and "e" :)
posted by keswick at 11:21 PM on November 17, 2005

African-American is a bad example

Possibly. However, there's no doubt that loaded words like "colored" and "negro" have all but died out, and the famous "n word" is far less socially acceptable then it used to be.
posted by afroblanca at 11:24 PM on November 17, 2005

Gledelig midvintersblòt, everyone!
posted by spazzm at 11:27 PM on November 17, 2005

misguided criminals? What a load of nonsense. That's just a lie. Typical right-wing BBC bashing.
posted by winjer at 11:34 PM on November 17, 2005

However, there's no doubt that loaded words like "colored" and "negro" have all but died out...

Yep. You left out the obvious BLACK.

"Black" is some-what more accurate, easier to say, and has a more cool retro cache than African American. When I was a kid "Black" was cool.

C'mon. "Black" Power. That is way cooler than "African American Empowerment".
posted by tkchrist at 11:42 PM on November 17, 2005

What is with "empowerment" anyway? When you're talking about a feeling of being in control of your life, why use a passive word? Why receive power from somewhere/someone else, rather than rightfully taking what is yours? Bizarre.
posted by nightchrome at 12:05 AM on November 18, 2005

Re: Thread title - the "you say to-may-toe, I say to-mah-toe, you say po-tay-to, I say..."

Is there any accent, anywhere, that really says "po-tah-toe"? Or was it just crowbarred into the song, a-la "a note to follow so"?
posted by Jon Mitchell at 12:16 AM on November 18, 2005

Being a regular BBC news 24 viewer I struggle to remember a single time they have ever used the work misguided criminals to describe terrorists. They may have possibly used it once, but it is certainly not 'homicide bombers'.
posted by Meccabilly at 12:20 AM on November 18, 2005

keswick: they were left in so that the corporations could sell Product to a self-interested public. duh! ;)
posted by moonbiter at 1:11 AM on November 18, 2005

I'm with Meccabilly, I never heard the term "misguided criminals" before reading this, and I see from the link that it was used in John Simpson's online column, which I don't believe is/was broadcast (on TV/radio/print). I certainly didn't hear it, and I hear and see a lot of BBC output. So one journalist used it in a rational, thought-provoking piece - the Corporation did not "adopt" the term and avoid "terror" words, as the link suggests. In context, it was certainly not an example of PC-ness, and the BBC regularly use the terms terror, terrorist and -ism as a quick search on their website confirms - 222 hits for terror in the two weeks after 7th July
posted by magpie68 at 1:21 AM on November 18, 2005

"Any sufficiently advanced political correctness is indistinguishable
from irony." -- Erik Naggum
posted by Pliskie at 2:56 AM on November 18, 2005

PC speech falls victim to the Law of Unintended Consequences because it creates a gnawing anxiety in the speaker that (s)he might utter the current "Oops-de-jour", while the speakee gains an everpresent indignant surliness worrying what some un-PC oaf might say.

Unless that's what Politically Correct Speech is supposed to do - sepaprate people into even more artificially contentious groups, rather than make them realize how much they have in common.
posted by Enron Hubbard at 3:02 AM on November 18, 2005

I'm not evil. I'm differently moral.
posted by EarBucket at 3:12 AM on November 18, 2005

"I'm not conservative, I'm ass-for-brains enhanced."
posted by Deathalicious at 3:23 AM on November 18, 2005

THEY TERK OUR GOD!!!
posted by psmealey at 4:09 AM on November 18, 2005

Let me join Meccabilly and magpie68 in saying the "misguided criminals" thing is a bad callout. Pay attention, Global Language Monitor.
posted by Joeforking at 4:18 AM on November 18, 2005

I think these people are differently enabled.
posted by caddis at 4:20 AM on November 18, 2005

You ever get the feeling that some folks go around preset to 'offended', just looking for something to set them off?
posted by JB71 at 4:45 AM on November 18, 2005

That Merry Christmas v. Happy Holidays thing drives me up the fucking wall.

I just say "Bah! Humbug!" and leave it at that.
posted by mkhall at 4:46 AM on November 18, 2005

I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I'm certainly not, and I'm sick and tired of being told that I am.
posted by Opposite George at 4:47 AM on November 18, 2005

The use of CE and BCE instead of AD and BC is common in certain professional circles such as archeology and anthropology. But I've never seen it used by "laymen".
posted by Slothrup at 4:50 AM on November 18, 2005

You ever get the feeling that some folks go around preset to 'offended', just looking for something to set them off?
For a while know, I've been saying that what pisses me off most* is "People who should know better, choosing to be offended on behalf of others".

*after misuse of apostrophe's of course.
posted by magpie68 at 5:00 AM on November 18, 2005

..and writing "know" instead of "now". Duh!
posted by magpie68 at 5:01 AM on November 18, 2005

Merry Christmas wasn't replaced with Happy Holidays (or more accurately Seasons Greetings) because of liberalism or political correctness. It was replaced because of capitalism around the same time that "Greed is Good" became the theme for the holiday. Believe it or not the aisles and aisles of Christmas Crap in your home improvement store such as inflatable Santa's, dancing menorah's or light up nativity displays weren't part of the festivities whether you call yourself a Christian, Jew, Druid or atheist.

As for greetings I accept it with the intention behind it. If you wish me Merry Christmas and you mean "Merry Christmas" then that's the way I'll take it. If you wish me a "Merry Christmas" with the intention that you'll get a rise out of me then I'm not going to take the bait. I'll wish it back too bu
posted by substrate at 5:48 AM on November 18, 2005

I'll wish it back too but I'm going to ignore your intent mercilessly.
posted by substrate at 5:50 AM on November 18, 2005

Did you know that the word "team" used to have the letter "I" in it? Big government, the corporations, and the illuminati eliminated it through a massive Chomskyite propaganda campaign.

It's true.
posted by moonbiter at 2:13 AM EST on November 18

Yes, and there used to be no "u" or "me" in assume.

Next time someone says, "Let's put the 'Christ' back in 'Christmas' I'm going to say, "Merry Jesusmas!"
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:35 AM on November 18, 2005

I won't rest until Christmas is called secular present fest.
posted by I Foody at 7:02 AM on November 18, 2005

Well I for oe am glad there ‘deferred success’ propsal met with ‘deferred success’.

afroblanca writes "For example, the phrase 'African-American' caught on because enough people thought that we needed a bias-free, non-loaded way to refer to Americans of African origin. "

Only problem is African-American doesn't mean Americian of African origin, it means black. No one calls a Libyan an African-American. Course it swings the other way too, your ancestors may not have set a foot in Africa for 300 years and your a Canadian citizen but if your black your still "African- American".

tkchrist writes "C'mon. 'Black' Power. That is way cooler than 'African American Empowerment'."

We still have black people in Canada.
posted by Mitheral at 7:44 AM on November 18, 2005

How about, as an example of a successful-because-sufficiently-necessary PC term, "Asian" instead of "Oriental," which places the emphasis on the continent itself rather than the region's position relative to Europe?

That change seems to have been pretty well adopted without too much anti-PC groaning.
posted by tentacle at 8:16 AM on November 18, 2005

George W. Bush is actually a miserable deferred success? We'd better get started on the new Google bomb.
posted by Soliloquy at 11:22 AM on November 18, 2005

How about, as an example of a successful-because-sufficiently-necessary PC term, "Asian" instead of "Oriental," which places the emphasis on the continent itself rather than the region's position relative to Europe?

Good call.
posted by afroblanca at 11:32 AM on November 18, 2005

Anything that gets people to boycott Wal-Mart isn't such a bad thing in my book.

Although it leads one to wonder about the effectiveness of boycotts. How does Wal-Mart seperate the people who boycott them for saying Happy Holidays from the ones who boycott them for labor conditions from the ones who just plain don't want to go there because it sucks (which honestly probably includes 95% of the first two categories who just love getting gold stars for not doing what they weren't doing to begin with).
posted by dagnyscott at 11:54 AM on November 18, 2005

Here's something interesting: 15 years ago I was taught in California that "Hispanic" was incorrect / regressive ... but find that on the East Coast, Hispanic is and remains a perfectly polite usage, even among quite politically correct circles.
posted by MattD at 12:58 PM on November 18, 2005

Only problem is African-American doesn't mean Americian of African origin, it means black. No one calls a Libyan an African-American. Course it swings the other way too, your ancestors may not have set a foot in Africa for 300 years and your a Canadian citizen but if your black your still 'African- American'.

This applies to one of my friends. He's black, and he's Canadian. I just call him "Mark."
posted by kirkaracha at 1:14 PM on November 18, 2005

Let's put the X back in Xmas!
posted by troybob at 2:02 PM on November 18, 2005

Could they remake Blazing Saddles today?
posted by kirkaracha at 4:28 PM on November 18, 2005

What's the problem? Don't we think that people who deliberately kill civilians are both misguided and criminal? I certainly do.
posted by Decani at 6:47 AM on November 19, 2005