Truman Show?

November 21, 2005 8:30 AM

A Dutch television producer, who previously brought you Big Brother, now produces a show for British commercial television were you witness the training of three lucky guys to become astronauts and their subsequent launch into earth's orbit for 4 days. They are trained in a Russian facility and are launched with a Russian rocket. There is only one catch: it's all fake. When they leave their orbiter to make a space walk they will be welcomed by their family and friends, and find out they never left England.
If I were one of the contestants I'd go postal after this. But of course these contestants were specially selected to be prone to suggestion, so they will probably just forever hide in corner so they won't hear the constant mockery..
posted by kika (69 comments total)

Reality shows = reality + (cruelty)

Big Brother = Reality + Cruelty

Strange dutch sadism show = Cruelty. CRUELTY!

Big Brother affects you for years. This may haunt them for their entire life. I can sense some possible freakouts here.
posted by malusmoriendumest at 8:34 AM on November 21, 2005

Doesn't this already exist?
posted by The White Hat at 8:36 AM on November 21, 2005

This is pure genius!

The one thing the programme-makers will not be able to simulate, of course, is microgravity. Instead, the crew will be told that they will be soaring to an altitude of some 100 kilometres, which is enough to qualify for astronaut status, but not to induce weightlessness.

And:

The craft's interior, modified from the set used by Clint Eastwood in Space Cowboys, will feature windows that give super-high-resolution images of Earth, including a simulated hurricane over Mexico. (Hopefully none of the adventurers will remember that the Atlantic hurricane season usually ends in November.)

What would make this better, would be to have the mission control people start talking about an engine explosion or some other sort of catastrophic event, simulate the spacecraft breaking down -- then shine some spot lights through the windows and immediately stop all the effects. Just nothing but silence until they eventually step out in to a pristine hanger that's all white and nothing else. Cue the father figure in the suit who comes in and goes "Welcome to heaven!", watch as they get really emotional and then the same guy (named Peter to boot!) informs one of them they actually will be going to hell instead and have two burley men in suits with angel wings take that person away. Yes then it would be the mother of all practical jokes.
posted by geoff. at 8:39 AM on November 21, 2005

[Sorry, last link seems to be subscription only. Mea culpa. Please remove]
posted by kika at 8:39 AM on November 21, 2005

I'd sue on the wasted time alone, not to mention personal feelings coming from being duped on a national scale.
posted by uni verse at 8:42 AM on November 21, 2005

It would be great if one of them figured it out and when they did the space walk, just screamed "I knew it, I knew it, Mom and Dad you were aliens the whole time."

But they are going to have to get real dummies if they are going to fall for this, even "with the it's not high enough in orbit for freefall" ("So I'm not in freefall and the engines aren't running and it's been several days, which is longer than the longest unpowered parabolic flight I've ever heard of by, well, several days, why are not all kinds of crashed on the ground right now?")

So this is probably going to really fuck up some poor stupid person. On PreviewL: I like geoff's version better, if only because you might as well go all the way.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:43 AM on November 21, 2005

In the old days, it was considered poor form to mock the afflicted. Now it's a spectator sport. How far we've come.
posted by veedubya at 8:44 AM on November 21, 2005

The one thing the programme-makers will not be able to simulate, of course, is microgravity. Instead, the crew will be told that they will be soaring to an altitude of some 100 kilometres, which is enough to qualify for astronaut status, but not to induce weightlessness.

One hundred km isn't a stable orbit, though: there'd be no way to "spacewalk" at such a height. Why wouldn't our faux-astronauts know this?
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:46 AM on November 21, 2005

Just as long as their families greet them wearing ape suits.
posted by Dipsomaniac at 8:47 AM on November 21, 2005

Haha.. i think some of you are crueler and funnier than that show's producers. the heaven bit would be classic.. same for them landing and everyone is dressed like an ape.. Maybe even some Alien vs Predator thing going on.. or have some Star Wars character float by the window.. haha..
posted by pez_LPhiE at 8:52 AM on November 21, 2005

If you're going to do cruel, do cruel. Fakeshots of a nuclear holocaust on earth, cut communication and leave them there for a week.

now that's television.
posted by quarsan at 8:53 AM on November 21, 2005

One hundred km isn't a stable orbit, though: there'd be no way to "spacewalk" at such a height. Why wouldn't our faux-astronauts know this?

Because they're a bunch of shit-for-brains dullards whose only interest in life is attaining minor celebrity?
posted by biffa at 8:53 AM on November 21, 2005

This is absolutely hilarious and absolutely brilliant. I certainly hope they go all the way - fake a shuttle disaster, natural disaster on earth... the whole afterlife simulation bit is great, landing and having people dressed as apes or aliens... there's no limit to what you can do, and if they really picked "imaginative" (i.e., misinformed, gullible people - easy to find) folks, there's no telling what you could get away with.

Because they're a bunch of shit-for-brains dullards whose only interest in life is attaining minor celebrity?

Exactly. You could do this with the cast of The Real World and it would be just as believable.
posted by aerify at 9:03 AM on November 21, 2005

Because they're a bunch of shit-for-brains dullards . . . ?

I think that is the target audience you are talking about.
posted by caddis at 9:04 AM on November 21, 2005

If Nasa can convince much of the world that they landed a man on the moon, I imagine it'll be a piece of cake for a Dutch tv company...

*ducks*
posted by ceri richard at 9:05 AM on November 21, 2005

This brings to mind two references, both of which my mind can't seem to recall important details like titles:

1)There was a Japanese reality show where they put a guy in a closed room for a year, and he had to survive on mail-away free sample coupons that he found in magazines. At the end of the show, they put him under and moved him to a replica of his room in a soundstage complete with audience. Then they dropped the walls and had everybody scream at him. Or something.

2)There was a sci-fi book from the mid-eighties I'm guessing where the Soviet Union had put up a massive rotating space station in Earth orbit and filled it with colonists. But the whole thing was a hoax, and the people on the colony ship were all actually in an underground bunker complex and tricked into thinking they were in space.
posted by thecjm at 9:10 AM on November 21, 2005

The thing that bothers me here is that while the contestants in Big Brother knew what they were in for (so they were publicity-hungry crazies), presumably the guys in Space Cadets think that they're in one of the 'serious' reality TV shows. That makes me a lot more sympathetic to the poor, imaginative guys.
posted by adrianhon at 9:11 AM on November 21, 2005

Spiegel (a German news magazine) says that there are going to be actors among the candidates, and their job is to dispel doubts. One of the actors is even going to be among the four candidates who "fly into space".

"Um auf Nummer sicher zu gehen, hat Endemol zudem Schauspieler in das Freiwilligen-Team eingeschleust, die bei Bedarf aufkommende Zweifel zerstreuen sollen.
Tatsächlich ins All "fliegen" sollen schließlich nur vier Personen, davon ein Schauspieler. "

posted by amf at 9:19 AM on November 21, 2005

With shows like these I often wonder if the person is actually in on the scam, and its the audience that the hoax is played on.

I just hope the winner has read The Martian Chronicles before hand and thinks his family are just Martians playing with his mind.
posted by Razzle Bathbone at 9:22 AM on November 21, 2005

It reminds me of some of the social psychology studies that they did in the 60s and 70s - like those done by Stanley Milgram and Philip Zimbardo. These were interesting but sufficiently traumatic and manupulative that they sparked an outcry and led to a set of ethical and procedural guidelines being drawn up for psychological experiments. I think reality shows could do with something similar before they kill somebody. Alas we wiil probably get it only afterwards.
posted by rongorongo at 9:28 AM on November 21, 2005

"around safe to go, end mol besides actors into the teamteam team transferred, who are to zerstreuen if necessary arising doubts. Actually to the universe "fly" are finally only four persons, of it an actor "

Still loving Google translate...
posted by i_cola at 9:29 AM on November 21, 2005

God Warriors... in space!
posted by Artw at 9:29 AM on November 21, 2005

You hit it on the head, Razzle... its much smarter to let them know beforehand, but then they would have to be actors or you could tell the difference in facial expressions.
posted by uni verse at 9:31 AM on November 21, 2005

The problem with a 100 km orbit is the atmosphere, it forces parabolic only trajectories. And you can achieve weightlessness at 100 km just as you can anywhere. You just only achieve it for a short time at the top of the parabola.

For evidence see this 4.5 MB Mpeg from the makers of Rocket Cams. It shows weightlessness with M&Ms for a few moments.
posted by Phantomx at 9:31 AM on November 21, 2005

it shows weightlessness at 100 km that is....
posted by Phantomx at 9:33 AM on November 21, 2005

I can imagine people being fooled by a fake launch and some treknobabble about why they won't be weightless. But I don't see how even super-high-def TVs can replicate the experience of looking out of a window at the earth. Whatever resolution you use, they're still going to be focusing at something a couple of inches away, rather than miles and miles away.

It seems like a minor point compared to everything else they're faking, but it'll be one of the few things in the charade that the 'contestants' have direct previous experience of (i.e. looking out of the window of an aeroplane, as opposed to staring into a computer screen). I'm betting that it'll be the first real giveaway.
posted by chrismear at 9:47 AM on November 21, 2005

This smacks of geocentrism.
posted by nervousfritz at 10:05 AM on November 21, 2005

One hundred km isn't a stable orbit, though: there'd be no way to "spacewalk" at such a height. Why wouldn't our faux-astronauts know this?

Because they're a bunch of shit-for-brains dullards whose only interest in life is attaining minor celebrity?

No, it's because they've certainly been screened for precisely this ignorance. This doesn't make them stupid. They are people who simply don't have much knowledge of physics and space travel. To boot, as noted in one of the articles and above, they've been screened for high levels of suggestibility. Again, I think it's unfair to mistake this for stupidity.
posted by nobody at 10:07 AM on November 21, 2005

1)There was a Japanese reality show where they put a guy in a closed room for a year, and he had to survive on mail-away free sample coupons that he found in magazines. At the end of the show, they put him under and moved him to a replica of his room in a soundstage complete with audience. Then they dropped the walls and had everybody scream at him. Or something.

I totally read about that show. It's the most extreme version of the Japanese cruel game show tradition I ever heard of. They pulled all kinds of tricks on him along the way. For much of the year he befriended a stuffed bear and had long conversations with it...
posted by TunnelArmr at 10:10 AM on November 21, 2005

chrismear, fog up the screen or make it somewhat unclear, and anything better than a TV will look real enough.
posted by cleverusername at 10:12 AM on November 21, 2005

I personally find that suggestibility is nothing more than

1. The replacement of real truth by authoritarian dictum

2. The humble acquiescence that one has no authority of his own.

Zaniness insues. #2 is eventually replaced by an understanding that one's will is the only moral authority possible, and that it's certainly good enough, however, this is the kind of thing that people with degrees in Philosophy can think about while standing in the bread line.
posted by nervousfritz at 10:16 AM on November 21, 2005

i_cola, amf provided a good summarized translation himself. My quick & dirty one:

"In order to play safe, Endemol has planted actors among the contestants, whose job it is to disspell any doubts that may arise. Only four persons will actually 'fly' into space, one of them an actor."
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 10:16 AM on November 21, 2005

nervoustritz: You just go right on thinkin' that....
posted by lodurr at 10:20 AM on November 21, 2005

Here's the really fun part: Even if all three "real" space cadets figure it out during the flight, they're not likely to speak out at the time that they do. Which means that anything they do say, later, will bear the stench of 20:20 hindsight....

The thing that used to most annoy me about 'reality' TV was the way that the producers manipulated conditions to get the desired outcome. I figured, sure, it's cruel, but they sign up for it.

Then I watched a little of it. Crap. This shit's cruel.

'Amazing Race' seems to be mostly OK, though. I can almost stand to watch that for more than two minutes at a stretch.
posted by lodurr at 10:24 AM on November 21, 2005

Nobody,


They are people who simply don't have much knowledge of physics and space travel.


You make it sound like knowing about gravity is some ivory tower occult phenominon that only super educated Hawking types can wrap their heads around.

I don't think they are "shit-for-brains dullards" but I do think that a basic (really basic, like really really basic, like throw a ball up in the air, does it stay there? No it comes back down, because there is nothing pushing against it) understanding of physics is something that should be expected of adults. It's not string theory or anything.

In the abstract I am starting to think this might be a just punishment for the many many people who walk the earth believing in fairies, angels, aliens and Captain Kirk, against all available evidence. I am no longer mean or angry enough to want it actually put into practice, however.
posted by Divine_Wino at 10:25 AM on November 21, 2005

This is a cruel joke. Please shoot them into space.

In Florida, I had a teacher who though we should do away with the death penalty, and instead just shoot the condemned into space. That way, he said, we could just say we lost them. "Nah, they ain't dead, we don't know that. We just lost them! They're lost! heh heh." At the time I thought he was joking. Now as I have learned more about Florida, I believe he might have been serious.
posted by kingfisher, his musclebound cat at 10:34 AM on November 21, 2005

Highly suggestible People . . . In Spaaaaace!
posted by Outlawyr at 10:58 AM on November 21, 2005

Presumably they are also screening out people who haven't seen the swarm of press coverage of this thing. Or of course the entire premise is a hoax to get the press talking about this Dutch television producer.
posted by theonetruebix at 11:11 AM on November 21, 2005

Divine_Wino writes "I don't think they are 'shit-for-brains dullards' but I do think that a basic (really basic, like really really basic, like throw a ball up in the air, does it stay there? No it comes back down, because there is nothing pushing against it) understanding of physics is something that should be expected of adults. It's not string theory or anything. "

If the local egghead says it's going to work there are a lot of people who are going to just believe it, if only because that person obviously knows more than them.
posted by Mitheral at 11:14 AM on November 21, 2005

thecjm and TunnelArmr: I think you're talking about this show.
posted by you just lost the game at 11:23 AM on November 21, 2005

You're one twisted mofo, geoff. I think we'd get along well.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 11:24 AM on November 21, 2005

If the local egghead says it's going to work there are a lot of people who are going to just believe it, if only because that person obviously knows more than them.

Well I want to smack those people. Then I can put on a white coat and say "I didn't just slap your big sweaty stupid face so hard that you got a glimpse of your own ass, what happened was because of a localized disturbance in the space time continuum an anti-pi-meson just crashed into your head and left a big welty red handprint."
posted by Divine_Wino at 11:33 AM on November 21, 2005

Divine_Wino: You make it sound like knowing about gravity is some ivory tower occult phenominon that only super educated Hawking types can wrap their heads around.

There's a big difference between

(a) knowing that a ball will eventually fall if you throw it up, and
(b) knowing that a 100km orbit is unrealistic.

For a lot of people, the latter kind of science knowledge is ivory tower stuff that only a few super-educated folks understand.
posted by chrismear at 12:05 PM on November 21, 2005

If I were one of the contestants I'd go postal after this.

I believe that the correct expression in this case would be: "I'd go ballistic after this"...
posted by fairmettle at 12:17 PM on November 21, 2005

I was shocked to find out one of my coworkers who had gone to college thought Mars was made of fire only after a few minutes did she remember "oh that's the sun". I am always shocked when I start talking about areas of science I assume are common knowledge and discovering how little a lot of people actually know.
posted by Phantomx at 12:25 PM on November 21, 2005

Presumably they are also screening out people who haven't seen the swarm of press coverage of this thing. Or of course the entire premise is a hoax to get the press talking about this Dutch television producer.

It's already been cast and shot.
posted by evilgenius at 12:41 PM on November 21, 2005

There's a big difference between

(a) knowing that a ball will eventually fall if you throw it up, and
(b) knowing that a 100km orbit is unrealistic.

For a lot of people, the latter kind of science knowledge is ivory tower stuff that only a few super-educated folks understand.

a and b are the same thing friend. Really they are. You cannot be in orbit, without being in freefall. If you subject to the earths' gravity to the point that you yourself are not weightless, then you are not in orbit, you would therefore have to be accelerating constantly or dipping in and out of parabolic flight (I'm floating, I'm sinking), which would be noisy, and would involve an expenditure of fuel that anyone who has ever seen a shuttle launch on tv would know would be impossible. All of this is actually quite intuitive and is possible merely difficult for me to explain, think about if for a few minutes.

chrissmear, what I am trying to say here, is that there are going to be a million cues, that even a minimally intelligent person, with just the tiniest bit of common sense and exposure to the last 100 years of media history is instantly going to call bullshit on.
posted by Divine_Wino at 12:54 PM on November 21, 2005

If they can fake the alien-popping-out-of-the-stomach thing as well, I'm sold.
posted by bardic at 1:04 PM on November 21, 2005

thecjm, TunnelArmr: more Nasubi.
posted by hototogisu at 1:10 PM on November 21, 2005

I could totally see one of the duped assassinating the producer eventually. Does he have a bodyguard? Maybe he should.
posted by beth at 1:18 PM on November 21, 2005

There's a big difference between

(a) knowing that a ball will eventually fall if you throw it up, and
(b) knowing that a 100km orbit is unrealistic.

For a lot of people, the latter kind of science knowledge is ivory tower stuff that only a few super-educated folks understand.

Quite. I have no idea what a 'parabolic flight' might be, nor had I heard the term 'microgravity' before today. In fact, I have no way of knowing whether all the snooty science people in this thread are talking raw truth or total nonsense. How would you all do in an exam on, I dunno, Renaissance revenge drama? Just because you know some stuff, doesn't mean the folk who don't know it are thickos...

That said, if someone was offering me the chance to be an astronaut, I'd probably read up on this science lark a bit.

Or of course the entire premise is a hoax to get the press talking about this Dutch television producer.

It's not some random Dutch bloke, it's Endemol. They kind of invented all the crap telly you've watched or avoided over the last decade, the bastards. Any new programme they come up with is, ugh, a 'news event'. (Though Space Cadets is by Zeppotron, the Endemol-owned British comedy producers behind TVGoHome and Nathan Barley.)
posted by jack_mo at 1:31 PM on November 21, 2005

Wow, here I am walking around thinking I have at best a basic grasp of science and it turns out I'm a freakin' rocket scientist.
posted by Divine_Wino at 1:34 PM on November 21, 2005

Yeah, Divine_Wino, I think you're really overestimating the average level of science knowledge. It's intuitive to you and me, because we've learned some of this stuff, and are interested in it. But I bet you any money: street poll, "Why are astronauts in orbit weightless?" and at least 90% will give you an answer like "Because they're far away from the Earth's gravity", not something involving freefall.

To pre-empt any accusations of elitism or intellectual snobbery: I don't think the man-in-the-street is dumb, and I'm certain that anyone could understand these concepts, if they'd been taught them well at school. I think it's tragic that they're not. But the current state of affairs is that few people are.
posted by chrismear at 1:59 PM on November 21, 2005

You are probably right, chrismear, I can't get far enough outside my own head to really see how this might not be totally obvious.

It sucks that it isn't.

jack_mo: It's hardly "snooty science", it's very straightforward. Now I'm a liberal arts type, but knowing about "Renaissance revenge drama" is fairly snooty and (outside of academia) impractical, whereas knowing just a little bit of physics, chemistry and biology is totally useful and should be compulsory in a way that it sadly isn't.
posted by Divine_Wino at 2:12 PM on November 21, 2005

Divine_Wino: I do think that a basic (really basic, like really really basic, like throw a ball up in the air, does it stay there? No it comes back down, because there is nothing pushing against it) understanding of physics is something that should be expected of adults.

Reminds me of this classic Usenet post:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jcdverha/scijokes/2_7.html#0720_3

"We called about 30 people [at the University of
Wisconsin] and asked each this question:

1. If you're standing on the Moon holding a pen, and you let go, will it a) float away, b) float where it is, or c) fall to the ground?

About 47 percent got this question correct. Of the ones who got it wrong, we asked the obvious follow-up question:

2. You've seen films of the APOLLO astronauts walking around on the Moon, why didn't they fall off?

About 20 percent of the people changed their answer to the first question when they heard this one! But the most amazing part was that about half of them confidently answered, 'Because they were wearing heavy boots.'"
posted by martinrebas at 3:08 PM on November 21, 2005

I wonder if they get suspicious that when they land they can still hear the Chimes of Big Ben
posted by papakwanz at 3:26 PM on November 21, 2005

"Here we are millions of miles from earth, and we can still send out for pizza. "
posted by Smart Dalek at 3:55 PM on November 21, 2005

It hasn't been shot yet. It's going to be on live during December. The contestants have been sequestered away where they have no access to the media. Right now they are probably undergoing the first stages of their "training".
posted by salmacis at 4:18 PM on November 21, 2005

martinrebas: That thread is truly scary and, if I hadn't noted the ".edu.au" addresses, I'd start getting all high-and-mighty about the state of American vs Australian education. Speaking as an Arts graduate with only high-school level physics, it boggles my mind that people can have such a weak grasp on (what seems to me to be) the simple concept of gravity.

Note: I know gravity is more complex than "everything attracts everything else, with a force relative to their sizes" but c'mon -- surely they teach that in high school everywhere?
posted by coriolisdave at 4:43 PM on November 21, 2005

Yeah, they surely do. But again, it's one thing to learn a fact about gravity, and another thing to be able to think scientifically and make deductions from it.
posted by chrismear at 4:49 PM on November 21, 2005

2)There was a sci-fi book from the mid-eighties I'm guessing where the Soviet Union had put up a massive rotating space station in Earth orbit and filled it with colonists. But the whole thing was a hoax, and the people on the colony ship were all actually in an underground bunker complex and tricked into thinking they were in space.

This sounds very similar to this book which is full of soviet dystopic fun though it isn't quite science fiction. It's somewhat disturbing that a critique of life in soviet russia and a reality television show are so similar--but at least we get to watch and laugh.
posted by sixtoes at 5:59 PM on November 21, 2005

This thread makes me think of the gender-bending reality show There's Something About Miriam, wherein six red-blooded British blokes were sequestered with gorgeous pre-op transsexual Miriam, each vying for her affection. (In this case, misery adored company: once the cat was out of the thong, they banded together to sue the producers, and were each awarded about $300,000.)

Can't help but think that for most American males, compared to having your manhood questioned, having your ignorance exposed to millions would be a breeze....
posted by rob511 at 8:02 PM on November 21, 2005

they banded together to sue the producers, and were each awarded about $300,000

In related news -- Arizona Man Sues for Gay 'Wife Swap'

A participant on the reality show 'Wife Swap' is seeking $10 million in damages because the television show's producers swapped his wife with a gay man. "As a result of intentional infliction of mental distress he has incurred medical bills, public humiliation, embarrassment and undue grief. He seeks $5 million for that distress and punitive damages of $5 million." The show's agreement specifically stated that a swapped spouse could be either male or female.

posted by ericb at 8:14 PM on November 21, 2005

I was shocked to find out one of my coworkers who had gone to college thought Mars was made of fire only after a few minutes did she remember "oh that's the sun".

I once saw a college graduate wonder aloud to a table of friends if ducks were birds or fish.
posted by Opposite George at 12:07 AM on November 22, 2005

On reflection I think they are missing a trick here; it would be far more fun to convince people that they were just in a crappy old space flight simulator when they were actually in orbit - they would only discover the hoax when they landed and opend the door to find themselves floating in the pacific ocean.
posted by rongorongo at 1:39 AM on November 22, 2005

No, it's because they've certainly been screened for precisely this ignorance. This doesn't make them stupid. They are people who simply don't have much knowledge of physics and space travel. To boot, as noted in one of the articles and above, they've been screened for high levels of suggestibility. Again, I think it's unfair to mistake this for stupidity.

Well they seem to use shit-for-brains dullards for most of the other reality tv shows so why should this be any different?
posted by biffa at 2:11 AM on November 22, 2005

jack_mo: It's hardly "snooty science", it's very straightforward. Now I'm a liberal arts type, but knowing about "Renaissance revenge drama" is fairly snooty and (outside of academia) impractical, whereas knowing just a little bit of physics, chemistry and biology is totally useful and should be compulsory in a way that it sadly isn't.

Yeah, I was mostly joking with that example, but some of the folk in this thread were talking as if this stuff is knowledge only a complete dullard would lack, and it definitely isn't. I ditched all science subjects at the earliest opportunity (3rd year of secondary school) except for one compulsory science GCSE, which I just managed to pass (quite proudly - it took me three goes to get my Maths GCSE), and in my life so far, a working knowledge of Renaissance revenge drama has come in pretty handy (I'm not an academic either), but I've never once needed to know even the most basic physics. As long as I stay stuck to the floor, I'm not all that fussed as to why.

But I bet you any money: street poll, "Why are astronauts in orbit weightless?" and at least 90% will give you an answer like "Because they're far away from the Earth's gravity", not something involving freefall.

Yup, that's what I'd have said. Though astronauts being in some sort of permanent state of falling is a much more beautiful idea. Perhaps the universe is poking fun at man's hubris there, or making reference to Icarus, or punning on the Christian tradition ;-)
posted by jack_mo at 3:04 AM on November 22, 2005

I just don't understand why people can't and/or don't want both?
I could give you a long list of examples of how knowing about the scientific method improves your life, how knowing basic physics improves your life, how knowing basic chemistry and biology can SAVE your life, but it would probably benefit both of us nothing.

I don't understand knowknothingism and it bothers me, but life goes on I guess.

Perhaps the universe is poking fun at man's hubris there, or making reference to Icarus, or punning on the Christian tradition...

It is doing all of the above and from a position of non-conciousness no less, amazing!
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:23 AM on November 22, 2005

More evidence of the general ignorance of physics in this thread.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 10:09 AM on November 22, 2005