Queer Eye For The Thetan Guy.

November 21, 2005 10:48 PM

There's been alot of discussion, both in the mainstream media and in a plethora of links here on MeFi, about the Christian Right's view on the issues of gay marriage and abortion. But what of The Church of Scientology? Well, as it turns out, they're not big fans. But much like Christianity, there is apparently a 'moderate' Scientology as well, and at least one ex-member argues that Scientology has no strong edicts in regards to gay marriage. An interesting insight into how a big ticket issue is considered and debated within one of the world's major cults.
posted by Effigy2000 (35 comments total)

L. Ron Hubbard tried to father the Antichrist.
posted by kuatto at 10:56 PM on November 21, 2005

A lot is two words.

Comparing Scientology to mainstream religion is stupid.

Do you know anything about Scientology?

Wikipedia is your freind.

There is a baseline here, how old are you?
posted by Mr T at 10:59 PM on November 21, 2005

Scientolgy isn't a religion. You shouldn't treat it as one or call it one.

It's a criminal organization that wears the religion mask to fleece people. Calling it a religion only assists in the fleecing.
posted by Malor at 10:59 PM on November 21, 2005

Mr T, Malor, there's no mention of Scientology being a religion in the post. Please read a bit more carefully and then condemn.
posted by item at 11:03 PM on November 21, 2005

Comparing Scientology to mainstream religion is stupid.

I agree, which is why, for the most part, I did not do so. The closest I get in doing so, and I assume this is what you are referring to, was to say that it also has degrees in its debate of major issues like homosexuality and marriage.

Scientolgy isn't a religion. You shouldn't treat it as one or call it one.

Once more I agree, which is why I expressly called it a cult in the final sentence of my post.
posted by Effigy2000 at 11:06 PM on November 21, 2005

Interesting post... the CoS is something that is easy to dismiss, but I think that is a mistake. It's a very strange organization and the more revealed about it, the better.
posted by cell divide at 11:08 PM on November 21, 2005

item: you make me laugh. Keep it up. Cause last I heard 'Church' and 'Religion' kind of go hand in hand.
posted by Mr T at 11:11 PM on November 21, 2005

Mr T: the name of the organization is the Church of Scientology. Maybe it's time to respond to the substance of the post rather than groping for vague insinuations by which to by outraged?
posted by Firas at 11:17 PM on November 21, 2005 [1 favorite]

Cause last I heard 'Church' and 'Religion' kind of go hand in hand.

That's still your inference, not his implication. He is reporting the name of the organization, not advocating a position on whether or not it is a religion.
posted by solid-one-love at 11:18 PM on November 21, 2005

WWXD?
posted by Space Coyote at 11:22 PM on November 21, 2005

I got a joke for you one-love:

Q- what's the difference between semantics and semiotics?

A- nothing, unless you'd like to argue about it.
posted by Mr T at 11:36 PM on November 21, 2005

Isn't semantics; it is an important distinction. He is not advocating a position. He is not making an implication. You are making an inference.

And the difference between semantics and semiotics is very clear; semiotics is the study of signs and symbols. Semantics is the study of their relationship to what they represent.

Jesus Marimba, it seems like only earlier today that I was complaining about people coming into discussions about religion and complaining because they didn't like the religious viewpoint under discussion.

(I am, however, stating it precisely: Scientology is a religion because it has adherents who believe in the divinity of its major figures. That it is a total scam is beside the point and does not alter the fact that it is a religion. I suspect that most religions began much the same way. Whatever. You don't like Scientology. We get that. Neither do I. Guess what? That's not what the discussion is about.)

In any case, blah blah gay marriage blah blah religion. As far as I'm concerned, people can believe in whatever gods they want as long as they don't try to legislate based on those beliefs.
posted by solid-one-love at 11:52 PM on November 21, 2005

one-love says: "coming into discussions about religion"

Aw, now you stepped in it. I thought you said we weren't talking about a religion.

Anansi taught me all about this tar-baby.
posted by Mr T at 12:03 AM on November 22, 2005

Aw, now you stepped in it. I thought you said we weren't talking about a religion. - Mr T.

Quite the opposite. Solid-one-love clearly stated in his last comment that he believes Scientology to be a religion. I quote;

"I am, however, stating it precisely: Scientology is a religion because it has adherents who believe in the divinity of its major figures." - solid-one-love.

You're missing his point which is, as I read it, that my post never explicitly defined Scientology as a religion, and that your belief that it did is an inference you are making. In doing so, you are missing the point of this thread, which is not to compare Scientology with any other established religion and their views on controversial issues, but to provide illumination upon the 'facts' as they are reported within the links I provided, and in doing so to hopefully stimulate rational thought and debate on Scientology and its views on said issues.
posted by Effigy2000 at 12:12 AM on November 22, 2005

Don't forget the Free Zone, the 'Lutherans' of Scientology ;)
posted by adzm at 12:15 AM on November 22, 2005

I thought you said we weren't talking about a religion.
At no point did I ever say that. In fact, in my previous posting, I stated the exact contrary.

You claimed that Scientology is not a religion and that "you should not call it one" -- you referring to Effigy2000. Effigy2000 did not refer to Scientology as a religion; he merely identified the organization by name, which does not imply the advocacy of any position regarding whether or not Scientology is a religion.

This is the issue upon which I initially called you out.

You never actually learned how to read, did you?
posted by solid-one-love at 12:17 AM on November 22, 2005

You know when I read the ramblings of Hubbard that make up the "sacred texts" of Scientology, I am convinced that Hubbard did this as a bet with his buddies, as has been mentioned here before. It's just so damn outlandish that he couldn't have been serious (or if he was, he was a sick, sick fucker.)

I feel sorry for dupes like Tom Cruise who, quite possibly, have no real idea what is at the core of this Ponzi scheme they call their church.

But what is it with all the Scientologist fascination on MeFi of late?
posted by teece at 1:08 AM on November 22, 2005

Did anybody see the latest South Park?
posted by gsb at 1:22 AM on November 22, 2005

Obviously the Church of Scientology loves gays, and is satanic.

After all, what is "Thetan", but Satan said with a lisp?
posted by Goofyy at 1:47 AM on November 22, 2005

I'm not sure that there is a moderate Scientology. Bernie is much smarter and more reasonable than most clams I've had dealings with, but I'm pretty sure that's why he's no longer swimming around in the chouder.

And he likes what I had to say about him sufficiently to post it on his website, so I guess my assessment wasn't that far from the truth.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 2:21 AM on November 22, 2005

ROFL, Goofyy!
posted by darkstar at 3:22 AM on November 22, 2005

Look up "religion". Go to dictionary.com. Or definition.org. Or anything you like. Please. We beg you.
posted by malusmoriendumest at 4:23 AM on November 22, 2005

It's a religion. Deal with it.
posted by malusmoriendumest at 4:24 AM on November 22, 2005

A lot is two words.
So is pretentious twat.

Comparing Scientology to mainstream religion is stupid.
There was no comparison. You are stupid.

Do you know anything about Scientology?
Probably more than you by the looks of it.

Wikipedia is your freind.
And spellcheck should be yours. Did you even read the links? There's one to Wikipedia so he is obviously already familiar with the Wiki.

There is a baseline here, how old are you?
And that is sooo grown up of you.

I have nothing to add to this thread. Just can't stand Dumbasses with ambitions to be Smartasses.
posted by twistedonion at 4:46 AM on November 22, 2005

church? meh. clearly, scientology is a political party.
posted by quonsar at 5:38 AM on November 22, 2005

There was no comparison. You are stupid.

"But much like Christianity, there is apparently a 'moderate' Scientology as well..."

buh duh.
posted by quonsar at 5:42 AM on November 22, 2005

Who cares what the scientologists think? They have no power, unlike say the Southern Baptists.
posted by caddis at 6:35 AM on November 22, 2005

WWXD?

Xanthus saves!
posted by eddydamascene at 6:58 AM on November 22, 2005

Metafilter: Calling you out on things we thought you did, but you really didn't do them. But we'll call you out anyways.
posted by blue_beetle at 8:25 AM on November 22, 2005

In all the arguments about whether or not scientology is a religion or a scam, I'd like to say that from an outsiders point of view, all religion is a scam and for anyone who says Scientology is not a religion, let me compare it to another religion:

This religion believes an alien entity that not only formed this world from clay, but seeded it with all life. Later, he got pissed off and wiped almost all life off of the planet with a huge flood, and then proceeded to engage in genocide and general prickishness for about two thousand years until he got really smitten with this one chick, got her pregnant and loved the resulting kid so much that he changed the whole deal that humanity got out of life.

Basically, the new deal was that if you simply believe that this kid was actually the son of the aforementioned alien entity, and ask for all your sins to be forgiven then you get to live in candyland forever after you die. Oh, and it would be really great if you could tithe 10% of your income FOREVER (until you're dead of course) to the Church.*

This organization has been suspected for over a thousand years of being involved in numerous shadowy world dominating conspiracies, and even today is accused of being controlled by a very creepy militant arm that engages in seriously medieval cloak and dagger type shit.

Of course, I'm talking about the Catholic Church--and I didn't even get into the systemic problems with the clergy and child molesting.

Please explain to me how the Church of Scientology differs markedly from the Catholic Church in that the latter is a valid religion and the former is not.

Is it because His Holiness The Pope really believes their story while the Scions of Hubbard do not? Or is it because we can frame Scientology as a cult with wacky beliefs, while it would be impolite to describe the Catholic Church in the same terms--even though they hold some fairly implausible ideas themselves?



* My grandparents' parish not only actively pressured every working class family to tithe as much as possible, but they put up weekly lists of how much each family was tithing. Noble, huh?
posted by illovich at 8:43 AM on November 22, 2005

I thought Mr. T pitied fools, as opposed to being one.

Did anybody see the latest South Park?

Yup, after it was recommended in another recent Scientology-related thread. Funny, but nowhere near as good as the episode about Mormons.

It's kind of surprising that they don't have strong edicts against homosexuality, isn't it? Part of their schtick is luring unhappy queers (Cruise, Travolta) and offering them a chance to 'cure' themselves through expensice auditing. (NB, I believe every celebrity rumour to be true, even those that contradict each other.)
posted by jack_mo at 8:58 AM on November 22, 2005

MetaFilter: Please read carefully and then condemn.
posted by QuietDesperation at 10:40 AM on November 22, 2005

Scientology is awfull!! Its followers use the founders teaching to justify torturing and burning people to death, throwing people off land they have owned for centuries with tanks, and blowing themselves up with suicide bombs....oh wait thats Chrisitanity, Judaism, and Islam. Nevermind
posted by Megafly at 10:51 AM on November 22, 2005

Metafilter: HOW DARE YOU!
posted by darkstar at 4:26 PM on November 22, 2005

Here's one reason why catholicism/any mainstream religion is far more legit than scientology: THEY WILL TELL YOU ALL THE STUFF THEY BELIEVE RIGHT UPFRONT, FOR FREE.

Scientology makes people waste thousands on useless courses over a span of years before they tell you the whole story.
posted by skjønn at 1:04 AM on November 23, 2005