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Rest in peace Besty
November 25, 2005 5:28 AM   Subscribe

George Best dies at 59. Footballer George Best has died today from an infection after a protracted iillness due to ill health following his battles with alcoholism. A great talent he was famous for his good looks, ability and love of the ladies.

"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars - the rest I just squandered."

Rest in peace Besty.
posted by ClanvidHorse (70 comments total)

 
R.I.P.

.
posted by psychomedia at 5:33 AM on November 25, 2005


Real shame.
posted by Frasermoo at 5:40 AM on November 25, 2005


Terrible.

The Cromwell Hospital is a few minutes from where I live. I've stopped by there on my way home a few times. There's no way I'd be allowed in, but it was good to just wait outside for a while. There always seemed to be a few other people (besides the scumbag journalists) there, too. Never a big crowd, just a few silent folk.

To my family, George Best was God whilst I was growing up. Like a true Ulsterman, he put up a good fight, right to the very end.
posted by veedubya at 5:47 AM on November 25, 2005


I drank with George on more than one occasion in The Pineapple south of the King's Road. A gentleman he was not, a footballer he most certainly was... Bye mate.
posted by benzo8 at 6:01 AM on November 25, 2005


@benzo8 - so you're partly to blame, then?

Also, why do I keep reading "Besty" as "Betsy"??


.
posted by Chunder at 6:21 AM on November 25, 2005


I'm sad for his family and fans, but have been a bit baffled by the enormous amount of coverage his gradual demise has received on the BBC recently - daily updates for about two weeks. It's like the Prime Minister and Queen Mum were simultaneously on their death beds. Ah well. Commiserations to those who feel otherwise.
posted by penguin pie at 6:28 AM on November 25, 2005


.
posted by docgonzo at 6:30 AM on November 25, 2005


I have to say that while his name rings no bells, having two FPPs within 120 seconds to announce his death, I'm intrigued.
Anybody who's got a death-knell entourage has got to be worth reading about.
posted by Busithoth at 6:31 AM on November 25, 2005


Chunder:
1) " ..bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe".

2) "Betsy" is a lot more common than "Besty" (approx. 75 times).

Your mind will have you believe that "Besty" is "Betsy".
posted by psychomedia at 6:34 AM on November 25, 2005


There are about a hundred variants on this story -

Room service came up to his hotel room with breakfast sometime in the early 1970s. Seeing Best in bed with the current Miss World, a magnum of champagne and several thousand pounds of cash won from a night's gambling, the youth exclaimed, "George, George. Where did it all go wrong?"

but then it is a great story, and so apt. I lost an uncle to the booze earlier this year, and seeing those pictures of Best lying there yellow brought it all to the front of my mind again. RIP you daft bugger.
posted by handee at 6:37 AM on November 25, 2005


.
Magical football player.
posted by peacay at 6:44 AM on November 25, 2005


Ah well, I don't feel sorry for the guy, I mean he had it all didn't he, in his prime. He couldn't possibly have any complaints, he brought his problems on himself I think, and I think he probably caused problems for other people too. In fact I'm glad he's dead really because I don't think he deserved what he had. But I really can't wait for Gary Glitter to get executed though, that is going to be the greatest thing ever when that happens.
posted by mokey at 6:45 AM on November 25, 2005


He was a great player. I posted some videos in the deleted thread for anyone who hasn't seen him.
posted by fire&wings at 6:45 AM on November 25, 2005


I started a post on this yesterday and tried to mix in some Wedding Present tunes (for their great George Best album). I thought the "Favorite Dress" line "I can't be drunk at five, oh I guess I surely can" worked well for a man who once said that he spent all his money on women, booze, and cars and that the rest he squandered.

.

(never did find "My Favorite Dress" online for a link)
posted by kingfisher, his musclebound cat at 6:50 AM on November 25, 2005


In fact I'm glad he's dead really

Classy.
posted by docgonzo at 6:51 AM on November 25, 2005


hmm, somehow did not see the "squandered" line quoted in FPP.

and how do I get to the deleted thread to see the videos? google video for "George Best" comes up empty . . .
posted by kingfisher, his musclebound cat at 6:54 AM on November 25, 2005


kingfisher - try this.
posted by mattr at 6:56 AM on November 25, 2005


Link to it, fire&wings.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 6:57 AM on November 25, 2005


Oooh, beat to the punch. Thanks, mattr.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 6:57 AM on November 25, 2005


Yeah - http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/46973#1118506
posted by fire&wings at 6:57 AM on November 25, 2005


I have to say that while his name rings no bells, having two FPPs within 120 seconds to announce his death, I'm intrigued.

He was "widely regarded as one of the greatest players to have graced the British and world game." If Michael Jordan died, especially after his doctors gave everyone a 24-hour warning that he was definitely on his way out, don't you think you would get at least a couple of people writing obituaries early and then waiting to click Post? I more than a few people wrote better posts but were beaten to the button when the news came out.
posted by pracowity at 7:01 AM on November 25, 2005


He was "widely regarded as being a total alcoholic, who kept drinking after a liver transplant" round this way. He's famous for being a twat, essentially.

Although I couldn't possibly give less of a shit about football, I wonder if Best would still be famous *at all* if it wasn't for the fact that he spent the majority of his time drowning himself in booze.

if Michael Jordan died in 2040, having not played basketball at all in the time between now and then, would he stilll have those trigger-happy posts.
posted by bonaldi at 7:10 AM on November 25, 2005


I wonder if Best would still be famous *at all* if it wasn't for the fact that he spent the majority of his time drowning himself in booze.


Stupid...he was famous for being one of the greatest players ever to walk the pitch - agreed he wasted his talent, but theres no denying he had the talent.

a couple of people writing obituaries early and then waiting to click Post?

Just to be clear - I wrote my post on the fly after hearing about his death on the TV at lunchtime...not trigger happy, just sad to hear one of my personal heroes dying.

I know that George Best was only really a notable character in Association Football circles - but he was respected there for his skill & grace, and not just for his post-game and post-career antics.
posted by mattr at 7:15 AM on November 25, 2005


Pracowity, I wasnt lurking, waiting for the news to come out with some preformed obituary post. I just happened to be at the computer when the news was announced and put it up as soon as I knew (as I said in the other thread).

If you are going to post something obscure as a FPP then by all means spend a lot of time drafting it and pulling in the links for the post, however, if it is a ongoing news story (first item on the radio news in the UK at the moment) then I dont see why someone can't just post something up for other people to add things to and brighten up with new links.
posted by ClanvidHorse at 7:15 AM on November 25, 2005


mokey - no - the best thing ever will be Margaret Thatcher pegging it.

As for Besty, he was a wife beating alcoholic. A great footballer he may have been but let's not forget the other side of his personality.
posted by longbaugh at 7:17 AM on November 25, 2005


Although I couldn't possibly give less of a shit about football, I wonder if Best would still be famous *at all* if it wasn't for the fact that he spent the majority of his time drowning himself in booze.

He would be. According to my Football fan mates, Best was an absolute blinder of a sportsman. Up there with Pele, or so I'm told.

Of course, they could all be biased seeing as he was a fellow countryman and all.

At the same time I see your point... would Jim Morrison still be famous? What about Jimi Hendrix or Ian Curtis?

i think at the end of the day they would have... no matter the tragic circumstances of their deaths through addiction (or stupidity as some smallminded people seem to suggest), these people were top of their league. Talent oozing out of the lot of them.

At least let those who admired the man have their space to pay their respects.
posted by twistedonion at 7:18 AM on November 25, 2005


longbaugh - no-one is forgetting it - in my FPP, I even linked to an article about his spiral downwards since the height of his playing days.
posted by mattr at 7:19 AM on November 25, 2005


he was famous for being one of the greatest players ever to walk the pitch

Nah, he's known by football fans as partly that. He's known by everyone else (and hence is famous as) a booze hound.

I wonder how many posts/comments Gordon Banks will get when he dies.
posted by bonaldi at 7:21 AM on November 25, 2005


I wonder if Best would still be famous *at all* if it wasn't for the fact that he spent the majority of his time drowning himself in booze

Understandable if you don't give a shit about football.

However, by wide consensus he was the greatest footballer the UK ever produced. A unique talent up there with Cruyff, Pele and Maradona. It's for this reason he's still famous.
posted by the cuban at 7:23 AM on November 25, 2005 [1 favorite]


Gordon Banks isn't George Best. Please take your agenda and ignorance of football and cultural matters elsewhere. Cheers!
posted by fire&wings at 7:29 AM on November 25, 2005


Bonaldi I head down to Bairds in the Gallowgate or the Louden Tavern tonight and voice these opinions.
posted by the cuban at 7:32 AM on November 25, 2005


Agreed with the Cuban. Bonaldi is talking shit here.
posted by ClanvidHorse at 7:33 AM on November 25, 2005


I think Bonaldi is at least partly right. Best's life as a whole is what gathered attention. If he'd retired quietly, and died of natural causes, there wouldn't have been such a reaction, I don't think.

Which isn't to denigrate Best's achievements, but when I was growing up, I know only that he was supposed to be a good footballer once, and I knew far more about the less salubrious side of his life. That's what kept him in the public eye, and fuelled the media (and some of the public).
posted by Swandive at 7:39 AM on November 25, 2005


Well, I searched for the "greatest footballer ever" and Gordon Banks was all over the place. Number 2 after Maradonna. On one list, Besty is number 15, well after Bobby Charlton. link.

I haven't heard of Gordon Banks, but I have heard of Bobby Charlton. I reckon that makes Charlton famous for being a footballer. But Best? Hardly. In my life to date, I've never read a story about Best-the-footballer. They're all about Best-the-twat.

If Iain Curtis had stopped making records, and publicly drank himself to death for the next 30 years, you'd struggle to say he was famous for Joy Division. It would be for the drink. Same case here.

Oh, and the_cuban: if I went to those places and said that Catholics and Protestants were all people, I'd probably get the reaction you're hoping I'll get over Best. Do you really want me to take a leaf from their book? Are you a Tim or a Hun?
posted by bonaldi at 7:43 AM on November 25, 2005


Of course, they could all be biased seeing as he was a fellow countryman and all

No, it's always been well established also outside the UK that Best was one of the greats.

Anyone who has to google that for confirmation shouldn't even be bothering talking about football in the first place.

Of course I guess after he quit all the rest is what attracted more attention but that doesn't affect the recognition as a football talent.
posted by funambulist at 8:01 AM on November 25, 2005


Well...even Pele (who many regard as the greatest ever), referred to Best as the greatest...
posted by mattr at 8:02 AM on November 25, 2005


if Michael Jordan died in 2040, having not played basketball at all in the time between now and then, would he stilll have those trigger-happy posts.

Ask Babe Ruth.
posted by jonmc at 8:10 AM on November 25, 2005


actually, let's play with google news:

Argentina / Spain / Mexico: George Best, uno de los iconos del fútbol - George Best, uno de los más grandes - Muere George Best, simplemente el mejor - Muere el mítico jugador británico George Best

Brasil: Morre George Best, um dos maiores ídolos do futebol britânico em todos os tempos - o rei do drible - Best, um dos melhores da história

Italy: genio del pallone - immortale del calcio - fuoriclasse del calcio - campione

France: icône des Sixties et plus grand joueur de football britannique de tous les temps - L’alcool tue même le meilleur - l'un des meilleurs footballeurs britanniques de tous les temps - l'un des plus grands joueurs de tous les temps - George Best : la mort d'une légende - la star britannique du football

etc...
posted by funambulist at 8:29 AM on November 25, 2005


I cried for George today...
posted by Stars Kitten at 9:00 AM on November 25, 2005


You've got to pick some people up , You've got to let some people go.

.
posted by sgt.serenity at 9:02 AM on November 25, 2005


Understandable if you don't give a shit about football.

I don't give a shit about football.

I've never been to a match, I've never watched a match on the TV, and although we were forced to play at school, I did so very much under duress. When the teams were being picked, they'd leave the fat kid until next to last (at least they could put him in goal where his bulk might accidentally stop a few balls), and then they'd pick me.

However, I could watch George Best until the cows come home, because what you were seeing is someone who was the best in the world at what he did. He was like poetry in motion -- particularly back in the sixties, when the game seemed to be much more leaden than it is today.

So yeah, even someone who doesn't give a shit about football could appreciate Besty, and take pleasure in watching him play. And as somebody who actually wasn't a football fan, I could also take a kind of vicarious pleasure in him pissing that talent away, and deciding that the pursuit of a hedonistic lifestyle was more important to him than living up to the expectations of his fan base.

In some ways, it's hard to mourn his death. He was very close to it prior to his liver transplant, which he obviously only got because of his role as national cultural icon. If Joe Bloggs had needed a liver transplant, but drank like George Best did, his chances of getting one would have been absolutely zilch.

But then he gets that second chance, and goes on doing what he always did -- boozing like a maniac, slapping his wife about, womanizing, etc. I've no doubt he was warned that his behaviour would kill him sooner rather than later, but he never seemed able -- or willing -- to change his behaviour.

And while I'm all for people taking responsibility for their actions, it's definitely easier for some people than it is for others. We've all known people diagnosed with cancer who are desperately unable to stop smoking. I don't think it's about will power or self-control -- it's as though some people have switches that are just set that much higher than other people, so not only can they not turn it off, they can't even reach the goddamned switch.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 9:06 AM on November 25, 2005


Best was, without a doubt, a genius on the pitch and will go down in history as such. Anyone with a half decent knowledge of football will recognise this. But it's the story of his drinking, the eternal tale of the fall from grace and greatness, that resulted in the slightly morbid, fortnight long countdown to his death and subsequent coverage on a Pope / Princess Di like scale by the British press today and no doubt for the next week or so. We can expect documentaries, minute silences, the 100 best Best Moments etc to dominate our media for the forthcoming month too. The tabloids will sensationalise his life, the broadsheets will piously analyse his tragedy and the rest of us will simply acknowledge a supremely talented man who lived his life to the full but succumbed to it's excesses and then get on with our day to day.

RIP George.
posted by brautigan at 9:07 AM on November 25, 2005


Obviously there is much controversy surrounding George Best.

This moment and time, however, is not the right one to voice that.

A man, and a legend to many, has just died. At a time like this, all you give is either nothing or respect (voiced or silent). Some of you obvisouly lack the capability and decency of shutting yer fecking mouths when there's nothing but garbage coming out of them. It's plain disgusting.
posted by psychomedia at 9:27 AM on November 25, 2005


his moment and time, however, is not the right one to voice that.

i second that. this thread really should be for condolences. probably better to leave the side issues for another day.
posted by rodney stewart at 9:44 AM on November 25, 2005


Greatest footballer ever According to some...

I also live just down the road from The Cromwell Hospital - there have been reporters camped outside for ages.

RIP
posted by iso_bars at 9:47 AM on November 25, 2005


He was a sublime natural talent. I almost posted my first FPP about this last night before he died - decline of a legend, tasteful i know. As for waiting for him to die before posting, the Tabloids in the UK this morning had what can only be described as full pre-death obituraries - around twelve pages in The Sun for example, six hours before he passed away. So i guess two FPP's is understandable, though a little surprising to me given the large American membership of this site and what i perceive as the general US complacency to 'soccer'. But you guys aren't doing too bad in the 'soccer' world. You're ranked in the FIFA top ten above, ahem, England, and you've qualified for the world cup next year in Germany.

For those non-football fans posting, understand that football in the UK in the 1960's, and especially the 1970's was a brutal world compared to today - there were some big hard characters who thought nothing of chopping your legs away, and in that climate they could often get away with it. there was no protection of players by referee's like there is today, and football in the UK is usually much faster and physical than in say mainland Europe (one of the reasons for it's global popularity). Also, if you look at some of his video clips, look at the state of the pitch on some of them and how many challenges he avoids. He was a fucking awesome gifted player, full stop. So if you do not appreciate the game, don't be a twat. He should not ultimately be judged on his alcoholism and tabloid notoriety, but his footballing talent.

He's certainly controversial, particularly regarding the debate of giving a liver transplant to an alcoholic. But hard, heavy drinking was a big part of player's lifestyle's well into the 1980's in the UK. And don't forget he was the first football 'super star' attracting tabloid attention previously exclusive to movie stars, called the 'fifth Beatle' in the late sixties after storming onto the European and ultimately World stage. And he's had to live his life and deal with his addiction to alcohol under the tabloid microscope.

Such a shame he couldn't grace the World Cup in 1982 when Northern Ireland qualified and famously beat host nation Spain. Though he was well past his prime, it's all that's missing in a short, glorious sporting career.

So all in all, flawed genius. RIP.

Pele called me the greatest footballer in the world. That is the ultimate salute to my life.
posted by too much soma at 10:26 AM on November 25, 2005


.

It seems as though Mr. Best might be called the Mickey Mantle of football (or Mantle the Best of baseball), right down to the controversal liver transplant near the end of Mantle's life.
posted by you just lost the game at 10:31 AM on November 25, 2005


Gordon Banks was a goalkeeper apparently. Sorry to demean goalkeepers everywhere, but people (rightly) get a lot more excited about a beautifully executed goal than a great save. Shouldn't even be putting goalkeepers in that list. That said, what about Gazza? From the clips I've seen, he had at least as much talent as George Best (and possibly even less brains).
posted by snoktruix at 11:22 AM on November 25, 2005


cf. 'Slim' Jim Baxter for another controverial liver transplant/genius sportsman story.
posted by the cuban at 11:28 AM on November 25, 2005


George was the best.

Only those who've not see him play could question it.

That from a Liverpool fan.

Oh. And never criticise a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes.

RIP George. You'll never walk alone.
posted by walrus at 11:33 AM on November 25, 2005


.
posted by keijo at 12:07 PM on November 25, 2005


"This moment and time, however, is not the right one to voice that."

Bullshit! Your attitude is just as 'disrespectful' as you feel they are for voicing their opinion.
posted by mischief at 1:01 PM on November 25, 2005


"This moment and time, however, is not the right one to voice that."

Bullshit! Your attitude is just as 'disrespectful' as you feel they are for voicing their opinion.
posted by mischief at 1:03 PM on November 25, 2005


Bullshit! Your attitude is just as 'disrespectful' as you feel they are for voicing their opinion.

Bravo! Diversion attempt. Clever.
posted by psychomedia at 1:39 PM on November 25, 2005


That said, what about Gazza?

That bit's a joke right?
posted by mattr at 2:37 PM on November 25, 2005


Well said, too much soma. The reason why the world is talking about George Best is that he was the first player to become a huge star and household name even amongst the people who didn't give a shit about football. When Best became a star whose fame rivalled that of the Rolling Stones and the Beatles, it was at a time when professional footballers were not glamorous over-paid celebrities in the way that they are today. Best was not the David Beckham of his day; he was a phenomenon who became bigger than the team, or even the sport, that he graced. As a limey, I can't easily think of an equivalent in American sports, but we're talking Muhammed Ali or Babe Ruth or someone at that kind of level. This from another Liverpool fan.
posted by nowonmai at 3:49 PM on November 25, 2005


A great football player he may have been (only hearsay to me, have no interest in the sport) but the media pulled out all the tasteless stops on this one and his decline played out like the latest reality TV show. I had started to call it 'celebrity death watch' with all the running commentary over the last few weeks. Personally, I had no time for the man who wasted the 2nd chance he was given by having a liver donated and continued to drink.
posted by floanna at 4:16 PM on November 25, 2005


"I know there is a lot of publicity surrounding the reason why he was ill but us football people, who know what he was about and were lucky enough to have seen him play, know a little bit more."

and

Simon Barnes, Brian Glanville on Best.
posted by fire&wings at 4:30 PM on November 25, 2005


- Well, I searched for the "greatest footballer ever" and Gordon Banks was all over the place. Number 2 after Maradonna. On one list, Besty is number 15, well after Bobby Charlton. link.

Google search for "greatest footballer ever." Gordon Banks sadly nowhere over the place.

But Best? Hardly. In my life to date, I've never read a story about Best-the-footballer. They're all about Best-the-twat.

Stop reading tabloid newspapers.

Oh, and the_cuban: if I went to those places and said that Catholics and Protestants were all people, I'd probably get the reaction you're hoping I'll get over Best. Do you really want me to take a leaf from their book? Are you a Tim or a Hun?


.
posted by fire&wings at 4:39 PM on November 25, 2005


maybe we just need another post about whether we'd hate an alcoholic who kept drinking after they got a liver transplant. Then people could be nasty there instead of here.
I'd like to think though that this thread could be more of a celebration of the man, and his football skills, instead of an embarrassing pile on. He was an awesome footballer, and its sad he's gone.
posted by kev23f at 4:39 PM on November 25, 2005


George Best was a genius at football, and he did what he wanted with the rest of his life. Great guy, fuck anyone who thinks otherwise.
posted by Joeforking at 4:41 PM on November 25, 2005


Anybody who's ever wondered why people call football "the beautiful game" - just watch some old footage of Best in his prime. You can't do anything but smile.
posted by flashboy at 4:59 PM on November 25, 2005


a great footballer yes, but with the amount of coverage his life and impending death has had over the last number of weeks and months, it was like God himself was about to kick the bucket.

I'm sorry to say it, but this mans demise was largely down to his own inability to control his impulses. He also received someone else's liver only to pour more alcohol on it which I think is a disgrace in itself.

Sad to see anyone pass away, but I think this was exaggerated by the media for their own benefit.
posted by superfurry at 4:48 AM on November 26, 2005


Soccer loves self-destructive working-class hero narratives. My uncle, Jackie Jameson, was one of Ireland's great soccer players and was also killed early by alcoholism and despair. He kept a lower profile than Best. Clubs should put more resources into helping their wunderkinder wards learn to relate successfully to celebrity.
posted by meehawl at 10:13 AM on November 26, 2005


fire and wings: try clicking the top hit on your google search link, then scroll down a bit. And I do read rather more than tabloid newspapers, although I see we both get Ad Hominem Daily.
posted by bonaldi at 11:43 AM on November 26, 2005


I'm sorry to say it, but this mans demise was largely down to his own inability to control his impulses. He also received someone else's liver only to pour more alcohol on it which I think is a disgrace in itself.

that's true. but i guess you're maybe one of those who don't see addiction as a disease, or understand it fully. if lacking control of one's impulses means giving up all self respect, cutting a potentially supreme career short, getting arrested multiple times and dying of organ failure as a result of chronic alcohol abuse under the full gaze of the world's press, testing out your second liver, you've hit the nail on the head, he has completely fucking nailed it - and it's a job well done. and he's had a marvellous time doing it - as one of my friends said - fuck it, he's had a good life - how many people would swap lives and experience what he's experienced and what he;s had? i don't know too much about transplantaion - if he was ahead of somebody else for a liver because of his celebrity, then yes, I'd have issues. i also have concerns about giving drug/alcohol patients transplants and have a lot of experience working with addiction. but to put it down to 'inability to control his impulses' is a little flippant. we know he's pissed it up the wall, but if you're one of the very few who who doesn't have any personal obsession, compulsion or even mild addiction to anything, then maybe you can say this
posted by too much soma at 2:25 PM on November 26, 2005


Does anyone have a link to the picture published by the News of the World of George Best on his deathbed, with the caption "Don't Die Like Me?"

From what I have read it is quite harrowing.
posted by davem at 4:42 PM on November 26, 2005


"When he walks onto the field, he carries with him the constant threat of the incredible.

Yes, the most amazing talent I've ever seen (in videos), though Maradona compares. Both simply boggle the mind. The hero worship is stupid, but Richard Nixon got a grand sendoff in America, so who are we to judge?

fuck it, he's had a good life

It's all relative, I suppose. From the man himself:

"It's been a hell of a life and sometimes, when I divide my life into two halves, I think 'The first 27 years were sheer bliss and the last 27 have been a disaster.'"

I can't believe no one's mentioned The Wedding Present yet. Great fucking album.

Does anyone have a link to the picture published by the News of the World ...

Um, it's only the first Google result for "don't die like me" ... but I'll forgive you since it might not have been 3 days ago ...
posted by mrgrimm at 10:27 AM on November 29, 2005


mrgrimm, yes I did search for the pic on Nov 27, but it wasn't available then.

However, your link is not the pic I was looking for either. I was looking for the actual pic from the front page of the News of the World mid last week, which supposedly shows Best on his deathbed weighing 44 kilos. The headline was "Don't Die Like Me"

All the searches I have done refer to this headline, so yes the actual text turns up in search results, but not the pic.
posted by davem at 1:18 AM on November 30, 2005


davem, I haven't searched for it on English pages, just came across it on photo galleries in Italian news sites - here is the pic of the whole News Of The World spread, and here is the actual photo closeup.
(No need to warn it's a very painful sight...)
posted by funambulist at 6:16 AM on November 30, 2005


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