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November 26, 2005 3:02 PM   Subscribe

Chances are, of all the things you've heard about masturbation, most of them were absolutely false. For some reason, misinformation surrounds masturbation like virtually no other topic. Since JackinWorld's goal is to debunk misinformation, here are some of the myths commonly believed about masturbation — and the truth about each. All you ever really wanted to know about something we all already know plenty about. NSFW.
posted by ColdChef (115 comments total)

 
More at Jackin World, "The Ultimate Male Masturbation Resource."
posted by ColdChef at 3:04 PM on November 26, 2005


Masturbation Safety
1. Never insert your penis anywhere there's a chance it could get stuck.
2. Don't try to enlarge your penis using any non-medical method
3. Don't masturbate with a vacuum cleaner.

Also:
Here's another potentially dangerous technique: Masturbating while immersed in hot water, such as in a hot tub. Since masturbation raises your heart rate and causes you to sweat, doing so in a hot tub can make it impossible for your body to cool itself normally. Your body temperature can rise to dangerous levels, and you can get dizzy and even pass out — not good. The hotter the water temperature, the more dangerous this is, and if you're adding a physically strenuous element (like humping against something) it's more dangerous still. Bottom line: Don't masturbate in a hot tub. It can really get you in hot water.
posted by ColdChef at 3:08 PM on November 26, 2005


You mean.... God won't REALLY kill a kitten?
posted by jmccorm at 3:09 PM on November 26, 2005


BTW.... glad to know that, like solar power and wind power, semen is also a "fully renewable resource". LOL
posted by jmccorm at 3:11 PM on November 26, 2005


Image hosted by Photobucket.com
posted by keswick at 3:12 PM on November 26, 2005


Any of those points news to anyone?
posted by nthdegx at 3:13 PM on November 26, 2005


You mean.... God won't REALLY kill a kitten?

Well...every sperm is still sacred and every sperm is great and if a sperm gets wasted, God still does get quite irate.
posted by fixedgear at 3:14 PM on November 26, 2005


Any of those points news to anyone?

Probably news to 12 and 13 year olds. I know that when I was that age, I was terribly afraid of "running out."
posted by ColdChef at 3:16 PM on November 26, 2005


I really hope that there aren't many 12 or 13 year olds reading MetaFilter, and that, if there are, there are many posts in the future tailored specifically to them.

"One simple method is to ask yourself if the statement is also true of sexual intercourse."

Hardly a piece of logical reasoning you'd put to a 12 year old. Why do you think this is aimed at teens, exactly?
posted by nthdegx at 3:23 PM on November 26, 2005


You mean.... God won't REALLY kill a kitten?

He does that just for fun, nothing to do with you.
posted by IronLizard at 3:26 PM on November 26, 2005


I think once or twice a day is too much for most men. Maybe not most 13 year olds though I suppose.
posted by lunkfish at 3:29 PM on November 26, 2005


ColdChef writes "...I know that when I was that age, I was terribly afraid of 'running out.'"

But wouldn't that be great? After visiting the sperm bank, we could jack our way into the age of male contraception.

posted by mullacc at 3:32 PM on November 26, 2005


It would only be great if, instead of sperm, a tiny puff of smoke came out. Or if it made a burping sound.
posted by ColdChef at 3:35 PM on November 26, 2005 [1 favorite]


Some of these points seem like further misinformation. Women start at a later age? Maybe I know some wild women. Also, how the hell is the discussion supposed to turn out? Can we just start saying random stuff and posting pictures of pony vagainas now? It seems pointless to go through all the effort of talking about something we all have supreme knowledge of.
posted by panoptican at 3:37 PM on November 26, 2005


or a flag that said "Bang!"
posted by ori at 3:37 PM on November 26, 2005


It would only be great if, instead of sperm, a tiny puff of smoke came out.

It does if you're doing it right.
posted by loquacious at 3:39 PM on November 26, 2005


or a flag that said "Bang!"

At first I thought you were referring to flagging posts. "Why would I flag a post as 'bang,' I asked myself?" Then I understood, and chuckled inwardly.
posted by ludwig_van at 3:40 PM on November 26, 2005


... it's sex with someone I love.

/rimshot/
posted by bardic at 3:41 PM on November 26, 2005


Talk about misinformation:
The Self-Sucking Thing
You can injure yourself trying to suck your own penis. A lot of guys want to be able to give themselves oral pleasure — to stimulate their own penis with their mouth. Unfortunately, only a small percentage are able to do this, either because their penis is very large or because they're unusually limber. But a lot of people have injured themselves trying — we heard from one guy who once spent a couple of weeks in the hospital for a spinal injury he got while trying to do this. So, never put unusual strain on your back trying to reach your penis with your mouth. It's not worth the risk!

This may be, in fact, the only thing that IS worth risking permanent spinal injury.
posted by ColdChef at 3:42 PM on November 26, 2005


masturbation is for winners!

I am vindicated.
posted by me & my monkey at 3:49 PM on November 26, 2005


And for the ladies...Clitical: Helping you hit the right spot.
posted by ColdChef at 3:49 PM on November 26, 2005


Can we just start saying random stuff and posting pictures of pony vagainas now?

I would really wonder about someone who posted a picture of a equine vagina in a masturbation thread.

MetaFilter: random stuff and posting pictures of pony vagainas

Has anyone tried any of the simulators yet? Let us know how it turns out!
posted by IronLizard at 3:52 PM on November 26, 2005


"/rimshot/"

Now *that* requires talent.
posted by nthdegx at 3:54 PM on November 26, 2005


Also, previously discussed weirdness.
posted by IronLizard at 3:55 PM on November 26, 2005


What about losing your eyesight? Going blind? I heard that you can go blind by masturbating.
posted by j-urb at 3:56 PM on November 26, 2005


Only if you eat a duck full of birdshot.
posted by IronLizard at 3:59 PM on November 26, 2005


PRINGLES-CAN SIMULATOR
What you need: An empty can of Pringles potato chips, two latex rubber gloves, two foam sponges, two electrical-cable ties, and lube.

What am I, fucking Macgyver? Let me just say that if you have the skillz and the time to build a potato-chip fuckbox, you should really concentrate your energies on meeting members of the opposite sex.
posted by ColdChef at 3:59 PM on November 26, 2005


What am I, fucking Macgyver?

I don't know. Nor do I pry into personal relationships if I can avoid it.
posted by IronLizard at 4:01 PM on November 26, 2005


Don't know that I'd go the DIY route with these around. Mocha butt sounds like something that would be served at starbucks.
posted by IronLizard at 4:04 PM on November 26, 2005


Metafilter: All you ever really wanted to know about something we all already know plenty about.
posted by Pseudoephedrine at 4:09 PM on November 26, 2005


So it's OK for young Mormon men to masturbate?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:09 PM on November 26, 2005


"It would only be great if, instead of sperm, a tiny puff of smoke came out. Or if it made a burping sound."

My partner and I have decided that it should be confetti (with rounded edges, not square)
posted by Jikido at 4:13 PM on November 26, 2005


But what does God kill when kittens masturbate?
posted by archaic at 4:20 PM on November 26, 2005


You mean.... God won't REALLY kill a kitten?

No, but he does create Domo-kun's to chase it across the grass, and around the house. They are invisable to our eyes, but kittens are haunted in, um.. such houses.
posted by Balisong at 4:21 PM on November 26, 2005


He might fondle himself and open that release valve. This you shouldn't do, for if you do that, the little factory will speed up. You will then be tempted again and again to release it.

oh shit
posted by cmonkey at 4:23 PM on November 26, 2005


BTW; I'm masturbating RIGHT NOW!
posted by Balisong at 4:23 PM on November 26, 2005


I was wondering if they would say something about it making you last longer / less long.

That's the one that used to scare me as a young fellow.
posted by Space Coyote at 4:28 PM on November 26, 2005


What about losing your eyesight? Going blind? I heard that you can go blind by masturbating.

Have you seen Kindall's glasses ?
posted by y2karl at 4:30 PM on November 26, 2005


I'm glad to see that despite the reconstruction effort you're able to keep your hand in.
posted by atchafalaya at 4:33 PM on November 26, 2005


But what does God kill when kittens masturbate?

You.
posted by IronLizard at 4:38 PM on November 26, 2005


No Bang! signs, no puffs of smoke, no cheering, or clapping.
No, I think it would be great if gem stones, precious/semi-precious, came out instead. Although, it would beg the question: do you know where (or with whom) that gem stone has been?
posted by bat at 4:40 PM on November 26, 2005


Well, that would pretty much make the too common to be worth anything, now wouldn't it?
posted by IronLizard at 4:42 PM on November 26, 2005


Metafilter: Hardly a piece of logical reasoning you'd put to a 12 year old.
posted by furtive at 4:45 PM on November 26, 2005


Wankers.
posted by milquetoast at 4:50 PM on November 26, 2005


MYTH:

Common knowledge about masturbation is great FPP material.
posted by fire&wings at 4:58 PM on November 26, 2005


The Self-Sucking Thing
"If I can speak for every guy here... guys, if you could blow yourselves, ladies, you'd be here alone tonight... staring at an empty stage"
Bill Hicks was a wise man, and is still sorely missed.
posted by kaemaril at 4:59 PM on November 26, 2005


I had no idea that pringles cans were involved. Maybe everyone else did. I've been living a bland life while guys in flannel shirts have been getting incredible kicks with pringles cans!
posted by IronLizard at 5:01 PM on November 26, 2005



posted by kirkaracha at 5:02 PM on November 26, 2005


You know, with just a bit more effort you can have your Pringles can sex simulator double as a WiFi waveguide. It's like a Make/Wank mash-up!
posted by Nelson at 5:08 PM on November 26, 2005


If you're putting your tadger in a Pringles can, I'm guessing you've spent most of your life putting it in any vaguely cylindrical orifice, salty-snack related or otherwise.

Also, think of the injuries inflicted upon the bold, space-dog-Laika-like Pringle can prototype testers. These brave souls had no foam sponges! They were wailing away on a completely unprotected Pringle can, for the rest of us. The pain of a sour cream 'n' onion infection daunting them not a whit as they plunged ever deeper, ever deeper, and into legend.
posted by Kafkaesque at 5:13 PM on November 26, 2005


So... you can get high speed porn and your antenna doubles as the simulator. Compact virtual reality is one step closer!!! Nelson, you're a sick genius.
posted by IronLizard at 5:17 PM on November 26, 2005


I think it would be great if gem stones, precious/semi-precious, came out instead.

What, pearl neckalces aren't precious enough for you?
posted by LeeJay at 5:22 PM on November 26, 2005


This technique:
THE ICE-COLD HAND
Masturbate normally with one hand, with a bowl or pot of ice water nearby. When you feel yourself start to get close to orgasm, put your other hand in the cold water. When you are about to ejaculate, put your now-freezing hand onto your testicles. It might give you the biggest orgasm ever!

And this was a comment on it:
this was awsome it was the worst ever i got a broke penis

Comedy gold.
posted by ColdChef at 5:27 PM on November 26, 2005


Stupidest post ever.

"Hey guys, I know a bunch of 18 year old experts in "sex" who want to school you in self love."

If you are old enough to read this, it is ancient history.
posted by caddis at 5:28 PM on November 26, 2005


If that was not clear - the linked site is designed for 15 year old boys. MeFi is for adults. Don't post that juvenile crap here.
posted by caddis at 5:34 PM on November 26, 2005


Metafilter: An empty can of Pringles potato chips, two latex rubber gloves, two foam sponges, two electrical-cable ties, and lube.
posted by kosher_jenny at 5:36 PM on November 26, 2005


Metafilter: That juvenile crap.
posted by IronLizard at 5:37 PM on November 26, 2005


MYTH:
People can tell whether you masturbate by how your penis looks.

FACT:
Masturbation does not change the appearance of your penis. However, most male masterbators are easily identifiable by their tell-tale "Pop Eye" arm.


fixed
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 5:39 PM on November 26, 2005


I think this thread is pretty good, comedy-wise. Also:

MetaFilter: It might give you the biggest orgasm ever!
posted by ludwig_van at 5:47 PM on November 26, 2005


Or, MetaFilter: a bunch of 18 year old experts in "sex"
Or, MetaFilter: designed for 15 year old boys
Or, MetaFilter: i got a broke penis

Whew. Ok, it's out of my system now.
posted by ludwig_van at 5:49 PM on November 26, 2005


Don't masturbate in a hot tub

Best sex ever: in a homemade sauna/sweatlodge in The Middle of Nowhere, Alaska. Little did I know we were playing with our lives!

RE: Girls being early masturbators: GUILTY
posted by MiHail at 5:49 PM on November 26, 2005


Metafilter: your Flash masturbation resource
posted by MiHail at 5:52 PM on November 26, 2005


Previous posting. Use that overly active organ for a good cause!
posted by IronLizard at 5:56 PM on November 26, 2005


Metafilter: Whew. Ok, it's out of my system now.
posted by fire&wings at 5:57 PM on November 26, 2005


Yaaay!
posted by ludwig_van at 5:58 PM on November 26, 2005


Sadly, this lame site missed a chance at good advice. Dan Savage's point on the iron grip of death (third letter) is something that far too people know.
posted by allen.spaulding at 6:01 PM on November 26, 2005


The site may suck, but the thread is worth it.

I gawked my way through the DIY masturbation aid section, mildly horrified. What's so bad about a hand??

(Also, at one point they talk about how tightly-packed warm spaghetti feels just like a vagina. Um, no.)
posted by kalimac at 6:10 PM on November 26, 2005


(Also, at one point they talk about how tightly-packed warm spaghetti feels just like a vagina. Um, no.)

And if it tastes like one, you're definitely doing something wrong.
posted by ludwig_van at 6:14 PM on November 26, 2005


Also, at one point they talk about how tightly-packed warm spaghetti feels just like a vagina. Um, no.

You do realize that, to contradict this statement, you must have inserted your penis into tightly-packed warm spaghetti, right?
posted by me & my monkey at 6:23 PM on November 26, 2005


You do realize that, to contradict this statement, you must have inserted your penis into tightly-packed warm spaghetti, right?

Or had a very adventurous partner.
posted by allen.spaulding at 6:29 PM on November 26, 2005


Or been blown by Cthulhu.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:34 PM on November 26, 2005


I hate the way this site comes out on my Braille terminal...
posted by Samizdata at 6:43 PM on November 26, 2005


Also, at one point they talk about how tightly-packed warm spaghetti feels just like a vagina. Um, no.

Chef Boyardee? Is that you?
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 6:46 PM on November 26, 2005


Have a wet-wipe, Samiz.

Favorite line: "Available in a discrete dispenser".

For what? Sex on your desk with the boss?
posted by MiHail at 6:49 PM on November 26, 2005


I think someone is touching me.

Nope! Just me!
posted by Balisong at 6:49 PM on November 26, 2005


Holy shit! I just dreamt that I was living in 2005!

Thanks for this wake up call.
Good to back in 1952 AGAIN.

What a nightmare!
posted by HTuttle at 6:52 PM on November 26, 2005


The worst part about the Braille terminal is when the hair on my palms gets pulled out by the pins. And I hear it's a pain to keep clean too...
posted by Samizdata at 6:59 PM on November 26, 2005


Oh, yeah. Thanks for the wipe.
posted by Samizdata at 7:00 PM on November 26, 2005


If that was not clear - the linked site is designed for 15 year old boys. MeFi is for adults. Don't post that juvenile crap here.

That may be one of the funniest things I've read on MetaFilter in a while. But thanks for the advice.
posted by ColdChef at 7:04 PM on November 26, 2005


And if this thread has no other redeemable qualities, at least it brought beloved MiHail out of her self-imposed exile.

To talk about masturbation. Huzzah!
posted by ColdChef at 7:09 PM on November 26, 2005


me and my monkey - or I'm a chick who just had spaghetti for dinner?;)

Admittedly it might be a little closer than fucking some foam in a Pringles can, but I find it hard to believe that my sacred flower can be compared so completely to some lukewarm pasta.
posted by kalimac at 7:10 PM on November 26, 2005


Agreed, ColdChef, agreed.

Bravissimo!

(I feel so fresh now too!)
posted by Samizdata at 7:11 PM on November 26, 2005


kalimac -

For those of us unable to visit the sacred garden much (currently separated, BTW), our taste in foliage degrades rapidly.
posted by Samizdata at 7:13 PM on November 26, 2005


Samizdata -

I bow to your greater experience :)
posted by kalimac at 7:17 PM on November 26, 2005


Balisong -

Tell me your technique.
posted by Balisong at 7:22 PM on November 26, 2005


(PS - I'm truly sorry about the separation. I hope it all works out for the best.)
posted by kalimac at 7:22 PM on November 26, 2005


(PPS, kalimac - Cheers! Thanks for your unexpected kind wishes. Working on putting things back together if possible. Otherwise, I'm terrified of dating now that the whole greenlighting thing turned out to be a sham. (terribly overstated stage wink))
posted by Samizdata at 7:39 PM on November 26, 2005


(Besides, this topic is as much a part of life as mushrooms, or Web 2.0, or blogging, or war, or Flash on Friday. In my mind (I've been informed by reliable sources, I do in fact have one), I think it's quite fit for here.)
posted by Samizdata at 7:41 PM on November 26, 2005


Hot diggity, that's a lot of parentheses.
posted by Samizdata at 7:42 PM on November 26, 2005


This thread has become so sordid, so vile, so common, only an injection of fine art will cleanse our palates (metaphorically speaking):

posted by rob511 at 8:04 PM on November 26, 2005


Now, that's unspeakable and sordid. And vile. Sheep are one thing, but odd humanoid bird creatures? You should be ashamed.
posted by IronLizard at 8:15 PM on November 26, 2005


Hell, once you've masturbated to horse vagina, you can masturbate to anything. Conquer your fears, people!

*wank, wank, wank*
posted by graventy at 8:16 PM on November 26, 2005


"Nobody needs to give anyone a demonstration. What we need to do is stop telling them you're going to go blind, you're going to go crazy. We need to be honest and tell them, well, it's a normal part of sexuality, and if you're going to do it, do it in private."

So spoke Joycelyn Elders in 1994.

In 1995 she was flayed, quartered, and burned at the stake while America cheered. Which is another reason why we can never have nice things.
posted by maryh at 8:29 PM on November 26, 2005


I agree, except for the whole private thing...
posted by Samizdata at 8:34 PM on November 26, 2005


Also, at one point they talk about how tightly-packed warm spaghetti feels just like a vagina. Um, no.

WWFSMD?
posted by NorthernSky at 10:12 PM on November 26, 2005


Also, at one point they talk about how tightly-packed warm spaghetti feels just like a vagina. Um, no.

WWFSMD?


Or rather, WWDFSM?
posted by Samizdata at 10:20 PM on November 26, 2005


"I love myself I want you to love me
When I feel down I want you above me
I search myself I want you to find me
I forget myself I want you to remind me
I don't want anybody else
When I think about you I touch myself..."


~Divinyls
posted by moonbird at 10:52 PM on November 26, 2005


So many comments for this thread...

I've been reading metafilter for a long time but tonight I was like "hey, cool, finally - a thread I can participate in."
posted by SmileyChewtrain at 11:03 PM on November 26, 2005


This page has been around for a long time. I found it many years ago, before I had learned much about how men work, and I found it incredibly informative at the time.

Remember, those of you who say that all this stuff is common knowledge: for the female half of the population this is not common knowledge at all (except the "men sure masterbate a lot" part). Jackniworld 's enlightening, informative and entertaining.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 11:26 PM on November 26, 2005


Or rather, WWDFSM? - Samizdata

Much betterer.
posted by NorthernSky at 11:29 PM on November 26, 2005


... odd humanoid bird creatures*? -- IronLizard, above
*According to the artist, it's a chicken that our hero is, um, choking.
posted by rob511 at 11:36 PM on November 26, 2005


"Spank you Greenwood! Ssspank you very muchhhhh."

--Ace Ventura
posted by deusdiabolus at 11:47 PM on November 26, 2005


"RE: Girls being early masturbators: GUILTY"

Well sure, because girls have to get to work on time too, right?
posted by nthdegx at 12:08 AM on November 27, 2005


This one was definitely a new one on me:

Myth:

Only homosexuals masturbate.


Fact:

Another favorite among the "I don't need to masturbate, I get real sex" crowd. The truth is, most of these knock-'em-dead studs go home and masturbate, whether they have sexual partners or not. Then they feel guilty for masturbating (and maybe having a couple of gay fantasies along the way), so they try to get everyone else to feel guilty for masturbating, too. Stupid!

How does the author know that this is a myth? Is he going home and participating in circle jerks with said 'knock-'em-dead studs'? I guess that would make his comment about gay fantasies more reliable than I'm otherwise prepared to credit.

In fact, was there ever a real heterosexual man who referred to other men as 'knock-'em-dead studs' -- even ironically?

And how do we know the author isn't just some middle aged paedophile who is jerking off as he fantasizes about the actions of those teenage boys who were provoked into immediately choking the chicken after casting their eyes over his website?

I think some people in this thread may have been pwned. If you're worried, I suggest that you get your eyes straight on over to Jenna Jameson's site immediately for some safe, cleansing, honest-to-goodness commercial pron.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:30 AM on November 27, 2005


Peter:
How's that homophobia treating you? Got that goin on,yeah? Does that make you a stud to your straight pals?

I find the fact that you keyed in on the homosexual fantasy areas quite...interesting. Also interesting: Your immediate tie from the homosexual content to pedophilia. Been churchin, have ya? Ever seen any research to prove that link that wasn't generated by a PAC or somesuch?

If you would remove your rose-colored glasses for a moment and attempt to read the answer in the sarcastic tone that I think Ecker was attempting to emulate (badly), you'll see that he was knocking ALL men who believe they don't have to masturbate because they get regular sex. The "knock em dead studs" could be just about anybody who doesn't get regular sex. He was mocking them, not idolizing them, you see. I think you missed that part.

I was a member of the Jackinworld jackinsider community for a while (their message board is quite enlightening - more non-sexual "guy stuff" gets talked about than you'd think). You'd be surprised at the levelheaded discussions of how to treat the younger members of the site. It's a touchy subject (haha). Seriously, there are very strong controls on the site and its heavily moderated to keep the content on the level.

I have never seen any mention of Ecker's sexuality - even editorially as he admins the message board - on the site. He runs it very neutrally. Many young men and boys are questioning themselves and their practices - gay, straight, how to hold it, the best way to get a good nut - and the site addresses those issues. I think the site does a pretty good job of presenting its content in a very fair way.

Do we know he's not a pedophile? Well, I never asked the question of Ecker. One would hope not. And, anyone with a gracious nature would give him the benefit of the doubt. I would also think that anyone wishing to actually practice pedophilia would be smart enough not to run a site geared to teenaged sexual practices. If ever there was a red flag, that'd be it, right?

So, please continue to mislead yourself about the site and/or the need to clean your eyes of teh gayness. It seems you may need that more than most.
posted by Slap Incognito at 5:42 AM on November 27, 2005


It would only be great if, instead of sperm, a tiny puff of smoke came out.

It does, after a vasectomy. I speak from experience, by the way.
posted by Decani at 6:57 AM on November 27, 2005


Master-what now?

I dunno if everyone is up on all of this. There are just some people I can't picture jacking off.
Al Gore. Lawrence Tierney. William Howard Taft. John Houseman. Mother Theresa.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:18 AM on November 27, 2005


I can picture Mother Teresa jacking off. In fact, I often do. When I'm jacking off.
posted by Decani at 11:29 AM on November 27, 2005


I can picture Mother Teresa jacking off. In fact, I often do. When I'm jacking off.

Christopher Hitchens? You're a mefite??
posted by maryh at 11:55 AM on November 27, 2005


From the Dan Savage article: "Lesbians can and do penetrate each other with all manner of things, from strap-ons to forearms to Dodge Durangos."

Ha! I've found out how to save the auto industry -- more lesbians!
posted by dagnyscott at 12:40 PM on November 27, 2005


I never knew what "mefite" meant until today.
:-)
posted by Crabby Appleton at 1:32 PM on November 27, 2005


Christopher Hitchens? You're a mefite??

Okay, now I'm upset.
posted by Decani at 2:07 PM on November 27, 2005


maryh wins.
posted by Optamystic at 3:57 PM on November 27, 2005


"fuckbox"

--ColdChef


I finally feel like my $5 was well spent.


My partner and I have decided that it should be confetti (with rounded edges, not square)

You must not have heard of silly-string.
posted by Jon-o at 10:24 PM on November 27, 2005


I think it is hysterical that this website is "optimized" for Internet Explorer, and that it doesn't work right with Firefox.

Whether this means us Open Source folks are such practised wankers that we don't need websites, or that MS users are so clueless, they need instructions, I don't know.
posted by QIbHom at 12:47 PM on November 28, 2005


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