Comments on: persuasive guessing

persuasive guessing

amberglow — Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:35:07 -0800

Your Guess Is as Good as Mine --by Kurt Vonnegut (it's an excerpt from his new book)

By: Peter H

Peter H — Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:40:06 -0800

God I love that motherfucker. Thank you for the post.

By: Peter H

Peter H — Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:51:22 -0800

It must be a great blessing and a curse to be so confident and accurate so late in life, and past so many trends and generations. I liked Breakfast of Champions (the illustrations * especially) and I liked all the scifi, but am I the only one to see Vonnegut flex full Pissed Mark Twain since Bush took office? It's been really wonderful to see. The people I grew up around often listed their father's heroes as Vonnegut, Bukowski, Zappa and Dylan - Very interesting who's still in the ring, contending. Two have passed away, and one has gone flabby. Dylan is the arrogant flab, while Vonnegut has become the Muscle.

By: gunthersghost

gunthersghost — Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:04:44 -0800

I bought 'breakfast of champions' a couple months back on a recommendation, and now I'll have to read it. Thanks for the link.

By: SassHat

SassHat — Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:24:24 -0800

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I want to marry KV.

By: mediareport

mediareport — Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:29:11 -0800

The roommate brought Vonnegut's new book home and I read through some of it. It's really thin, with lots of white space on the pages and not a whole lot of content, really. It seemed a bit surface-y to me; not so much glib as bored with trying to convince anyone who's not already with him. I understand why he might want to do that, but it didn't do much for me. Certainly not as much as the sharp stuff he used to wield so well. He's done more than enough good to coast for a while, but I just thought I'd mention that if folks are looking for some primo Vonnegut, this most recent book may not be it. Although it's good "preach to the choir" inspiration, if you need more of that. Galapagos or Cat's Cradle will probably do you more long-term good, though, if you're unfamiliar with them. Side issue: You won't care, but I think this is a really thin post, amberglow. Short highly emotional op-eds? Haven't we seen enough of them?

By: Eideteker

Eideteker — Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:36:05 -0800

. Oh, wait. He's not dead yet? I remember taking some of his short-stories-on-tape to New Orleans last year and fighting not to fall asleep as he read them in his aging geezer voice. I really should give some of the stuff from the prime of his life a shot, but in the mean time I have yet to be impressed.

By: kyleg

kyleg — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:09:15 -0800

A lot of his short stories were fluff he sold to magazines to pay the bills while he was working on his novels; he admits it in the preface to Welcome to the Monkey House. Any American who somehow has not yet read Slaughterhouse 5 definitely should. And the rest of his classics are certainly beloved for a reason. But yeah, thanks for the link amberglow.

By: atrazine

atrazine — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:59:57 -0800

Eideteker, and he doesn't really have a fantastic voice. I can't imagine why they would have him read his own stories for any other reason than putting "read by the author" on the cover.

By: ClanvidHorse

ClanvidHorse — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 02:22:26 -0800

Thanks very much for the link.

By: Blip

Blip — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 04:14:05 -0800

I'm new to Vonnegut, but I enjoyed this, thanks!

By: ElvisJesus

ElvisJesus — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 04:29:41 -0800

Its easy to read Vonnegut on a surface level and see it as thin. But the genius of his writing is that he conveys complex thoughts and concepts in a deceptively simple language. He requires his reader to think, and those thoughts fill in the white space. Hi ho.

By: Alison

Alison — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 04:52:53 -0800

Thanks! Kurt Vonnegut is my literary Santa Claus. My friends and I were just talking about "Harrison Bergeron".

By: 3.2.3

3.2.3 — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 05:18:00 -0800

He's done more than enough good to coast for a while mediareport, do you realize the book was a total surprise? kv said a few years ago he would never write again. it's easy to make a case that even breakfast of champions is thin if you're not coasting with kv yourself. it's always been a glib "and so on." and man without a country is pretty short. it's easy to say he preaches to the choir. i haven't noticed fundie christians going wild for kv, no. the thing is, most people need to read something like your guess is as good as mine every day, and i'm really glad amberglow posted it. it reads kind of like one of his more famous university commencement day speeches, sure. and that's just perfect. if we want to talk about kv's ouervre, i say his best was his first, player piano. it's been all downhill after that. but that's not to disparage later work, much of which sent me reeling.

By: knave

knave — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 05:18:12 -0800

Hate to be the negative one here, because I love Vonnegut for his book Cat's Cradle. However, this article is a bit shallow. It seems to assume our government wants a free market, or that we even have one today, when we have nothing close to a free market. Whether you think the concept of a free market has merits, they certainly aren't espoused by the current admin. The term conservative no longer applies to the republican party, with the notable exception of Ron Paul. His concept of the guessing leaders is a good one, though, I think that will stick with me. Many examples come to mind of legislation that is in direct opposition to the facts, but gets pushed through because of appeals to emotion or appeals to a sense of patriotism. Creepy.

By: nofundy

nofundy — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 05:31:15 -0800

Some of the loudest, most proudly ignorant guessing in the world is going on in Washington today. Our leaders are sick of all the solid information that has been dumped on humanity by research and scholarship and investigative reporting. They think that the whole country is sick of it, and they want standards, and it isn't the gold standard. They want to put us back on the snake-oil standard. ... If you actually are an educated, thinking person, you will not be welcome in Washington, D.C. I know a couple of bright seventh graders who would not be welcomed in Washington, D.C. Unvarnished truth. The party of God don't want your sass!

By: any major dude

any major dude — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 05:51:49 -0800

This book is the very best gift you can give a friend and the world this Christmas. If for nothing else but his brilliant debunking of the common misconception behind the Karl Marx quote "religion is the opium of the masses"

By: any major dude

any major dude — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 05:56:38 -0800

knave wrote: when we have nothing close to a free market. I believe Vonnegut leans toward socialism for the exact reason that there really can be no such thing as a free market. The rich and powerful will always take over markets and run roughshod over regulations just because the can. A free market is a myth just like true communism is a myth. Neither system takes into account that those in power will instinctually want to consolidate it.

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:03:14 -0800

The masses of humanity, having no solid information to tell them otherwise, have had little choice but to believe this guesser or that one. We just kinda went over this... We very often tend to follow those with the most compelling story. This goes back to Gilgamesh. The mythos/stories reflect our will to understand what we cannot understand. I think KV has always been cynical. I love his work, but he often defines the void of meaning in his work. It's one of his central themes. And it's not surprising to see it reiterated here. This piece seems to lament though that at a time when our mythos, our human story, could be richer and more filled with meaning and understanding than any other time in history because of our ability to comprehend the world, because we have the power to endow our world with vision and meaning from an individual (non-divine/king level) those in power are working only to limit its scope and drain us of any truth but that of servitude to their illusion through distraction and fear. I suppose that makes Kurt: Enkidu or Urshanabi. He's clearly pointing out that the folks with all these plans keep forgetting human fate. Nothing lasts forever. (Particularly with hydrogen bombs around).

By: The White Hat

The White Hat — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:07:18 -0800

By: you just lost the game

you just lost the game — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:14:56 -0800

I like some of his later stuff. Hocus Pocus is a fantastic book, although fantastically depressing, even by the fantastically depressing standards set by his depressing earlier works. I hadn't expected to hear anything more from the ol' curmudgeon, so thanks for the post!

By: delmoi

delmoi — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:27:03 -0800

By: bshock

bshock — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 08:12:22 -0800

Nice little piece. Thanks.

By: fixedgear

fixedgear — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 08:26:12 -0800

it reads kind of like one of his more famous university commencement day speeches, sure. and that's just perfect. That would be the "wear sunscreen" one, right? BWAHAHAHAHA.

By: First Post

First Post — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 08:28:35 -0800

it reads kind of like one of his more famous university commencement day speeches The one about the sunscreen? ;)

By: fixedgear

fixedgear — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 08:30:45 -0800

First Post: Jinx.

By: First Post

First Post — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 08:35:07 -0800

heh fixedgear, you win...this time.. :)

By: PinkStainlessTail

PinkStainlessTail — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 08:40:05 -0800

kv said a few years ago he would never write again. In fairness, he's been saying that every few years since Breakfast of Champions was first published.

By: antifuse

antifuse — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 08:40:20 -0800

You can't jinx someone for posting something 2 minutes later! :P As for the KV article: I love his stuff, even though he has gotten progressively more curmudgeonly. I'm curious to read the transcript of the interview where he apparently lauds suicide bombers. Gotta agree with yjltg - Hocus Pocus was the first Vonnegut book I ever read, and it got me hooked.

By: tetsuo

tetsuo — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:20:08 -0800

Interview w/KV from a couple of months ago: PBS NOW. (warning: RealMedia)

By: amberglow

amberglow — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:03:17 -0800

I'd rate Player Piano and Breakfast of Champions as his best. A very long time ago, when i was in college (early 80s, we were reading Hawthorne), someone asked the professor which living author today we'd still be reading over a hundred years from now. He said Vonnegut.

By: grateful

grateful — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:17:27 -0800

I seem to recall in his new book, Vonnegut has some unpleasant opinions about online communities. Can't remember the exact quote, but it reduces Metafilter (and similar sites) to a huge waste of time.

By: tetsuo

tetsuo — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:29:34 -0800

You know, I think he may be on to something.

By: mr.marx

mr.marx — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:31:54 -0800

I'm curious to read the transcript of the interview where he apparently lauds suicide bombers. Metafilter, November 22

By: mrgrimm

mrgrimm — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:46:32 -0800

I'll chip in with a plug for the less appreciated Timequake. If you've already read the famous, "good" ones like Slaughterhouse, Cat's Cradle, and Breakfast, I highly recommend Timequake. I kinda liked Vonnegut before it, but I loved him after it.

By: jaronson

jaronson — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:41:22 -0800

Surely some day, someone will make a decent movie based one of Vonnegut's books.

By: Reto

Reto — Wed, 14 Dec 2005 04:53:12 -0800

jaronson: Indeed, someone already has. I'll add that one to the recommendation of his best books while I'm at it.

By: antifuse

antifuse — Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:59:12 -0800

I shudder to think of how badly Hollywood can mangle a film adaptation of Cat's Cradle. I envision "The Day After Tomorrow", only worse.

By: mrgrimm

mrgrimm — Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:13:19 -0800

Anybody seen Breakfast? It was star studded, but everybody hated it for some reason. I never even remember it in theaters.