visas for sex or sex for visas

January 3, 2006 4:39 AM

sex for visa racketThe Home Office today announced that it is to investigate claims of a sex for visas racket at its main immigration centre in Croydon, south London. According to the Sun newspaper, a former employee at the centre, Anthony Pamnani, alleged that corrupt officials gave women leave to remain in return for sex. He claimed more attractive female applicants were given preferential treatment.
posted by Stars Kitten (38 comments total)

Yup - this is why all of the immigrants you see are young, female and attractive. Or something.
posted by Chunder at 4:46 AM on January 3, 2006

Well, I was slightly irked by the sex for visa scam in general, what really outraged me was learning that those handing out visas in exchange for sex discriminated on the basis of what they found to be sexually attractive. The outrage!
posted by [expletive deleted] at 5:02 AM on January 3, 2006

I will perform sexual favors in return for two british work visas. Female immigration officer strongly preferred.
posted by Mayor Curley at 5:24 AM on January 3, 2006

I will perform sexual favors in return for two british work visas

I will hang shelving, paint the kitchen, and mow the lawn for two british work visas.
posted by eriko at 5:30 AM on January 3, 2006

Civil servants horny and lazy! How exactly is this even qualified as news? Oh, it's sex. Never mind. Surely letting some attactive women into the UK can only be good for the country.
posted by Goofyy at 5:49 AM on January 3, 2006

Yes. Lord knows we don't have enough already. Duh.
posted by longbaugh at 5:56 AM on January 3, 2006

"Civil servants horny and lazy! How exactly is this even qualified as news?"

Because, in the US, they're only the latter? And arrogant?
posted by ParisParamus at 5:58 AM on January 3, 2006

this is no news, I mean, this happens all the time, yet I am surprised to find out that you people take this matter so lightly - (see above replies) - it is obvious that by being US citizens you do not understand the pressures of having to emigrate to a different country and how nerve wrecking this situation is, and how people exploit that....

I am disgusted not only by the fact that this behavior still goes unpunished but also to find that people just couldn't give a damn.
posted by libelula at 6:04 AM on January 3, 2006

"...more attractive female applicants were given preferential treatment."

Shocking!
posted by MikeMc at 6:08 AM on January 3, 2006

Because, in the US, they're only the latter? And arrogant?

Ahah nice. Nope in U.S. they're stupid, they could steal half the country nobody would notice, see Bush Admin, a success in the art of making other pay. The other half is already taken by these who selectively apply free market theory and turned it into a financial based religion.

But I digress : the sex part of the "scandal" is that women (or men) perceived as more beautiful have an advantage that is perceived as unfair. Actually what is unfair is that others are not allowed to offer sex in exchange of visa !

Obviously sex shouldn't be a reason to give a visa to begin with, but that's another point.
posted by elpapacito at 6:10 AM on January 3, 2006

Exploited? Bull.

These women already must have provided documentation and passed the initial standards the issuing ministry or department requested for their first visa as they're merely getting "leave to remain" in return for sex.

Usually, apart from requesting health documents for longer term stays, isn't it just a fee that they request to renew a visa?

And if so, were this to happen in a country that was a free market and where prostitution was legal, couldn't sex be considered adequate recompense for renewal? Certainly not in London though, I'm just putting forth a thought.

Anyway, the more reasons people have to go at it the better. I see no cause for moral outrage here unless your moral template is the kind that imposes on consensual sex.

And "scandal" is a term I would reserve for something that has a viable negative effect on a group of people's mortality, property, or liberties.

Prying into the consensual sex lives of others itself ought to be more of a scandal. But, I almost forgot, people have nothing better to do these days.
posted by Emotive Adamantium at 6:13 AM on January 3, 2006

Personally I'm gutted there wasnt any pictures in that link.
posted by 13twelve at 6:32 AM on January 3, 2006

emotiveadamantium: you never did face any bureocracy did you ? Both in private (yeah also in private and expecially in private were there's little or no public scrutiny) and state sectors bureocracy can grind any efficiency to zero..but I guess you want your visa renewal BEFORE you're kicked out the country don't you ? I guess some sex could ease things up...

But if there's no law saying the officier must give a recepit of the renewal demand and that the demand must be presented well before the expiry rate (say 60 days) and that the officier MUST respond before the abovesaid 60 days or face serious charges..then I guess she/he will have to put up some sex on the bargaining table.

Disgusting ? Maybe. Illegal ? Probably. A problem ? Foh shure ! Next time they'll ask money and next time another officer will ask for something else.
posted by elpapacito at 6:33 AM on January 3, 2006

These women already must have provided documentation and passed the initial standards the issuing ministry or department requested for their first visa as they're merely getting "leave to remain" in return for sex.

Usually, apart from requesting health documents for longer term stays, isn't it just a fee that they request to renew a visa?

Depends on what type of leave they're applying for - if they're applying for further or indefinite leave to remain, they have already passed a number of hurdles to get 4 or so initial years in the UK (eg as a spouse/partner, as a worker). However, they will still have to pass further checks - eg that they haven't broken the terms of their initial leave. The fee is just to cover costs. If they're applying to upgrade a visitor's visa, they will not have been through that many checks to begin with and will be asked to provide various types of evidence to support their application.

But even beyond those cases, I don't see why it isn't exploitation. The immigration system can be scary and confusing if your first language isn't English, or if you haven't experienced it before - pressure or desire to stay here could well make you vulnerable to suggestions such as are being alleged. Just visit Croydon (which is where the incidents are alleged to have occured) and stand outside Lunar House opposite the shopping centre to see queues of scared, fed-up people waiting to hear whether they have a future in the UK. Even if the women would have qualified for leave to remain under the rules, and an official approached them "off-duty", it is still dodgy. Or to put it in shorter terms, what libelula said.

On preview - if you apply for an extension of leave before your time runs out, and the immigration service don't renew it in time, your leave is automatically extended until a decision is made.
posted by greycap at 6:38 AM on January 3, 2006

Usually, apart from requesting health documents for longer term stays, isn't it just a fee that they request to renew a visa?
According to my Japanese friend, no. The fee is a part of it but there was a lot of writing back and forth between the country of origin and England. His (student) visa was running out and the situation was extremely unclear and precarious. As he is still here, the situation was obviously resolved but a month before he was due to leave he had no idea if he was going to be kicked out of the country or not.

I can only imagine how emotionally draining this must be for someone who's well-being depended on staying in England. And how easy these people would be to exploit by playing on this fear (especially from this position of perceived authority).

Call me a cynic, but I doubt that the sex was consensual or seen as "adequate recompense" by the parties involved.
posted by slimepuppy at 6:38 AM on January 3, 2006

Is this really news? I'm surprised that anyone finds this surprising!!!
posted by maxmix at 6:43 AM on January 3, 2006

From Casablanca:

OFFICER: Excuse me, Captain, another visa problem has come up.

RENAULT: Show her in.

OFFICER: Yes, sir.
posted by LondonYank at 6:44 AM on January 3, 2006

libelula
We make light of this because, by all appearences, the system is working. The whistle blower has made headlines, we're discussing it here. The guilty will likely be disciplined. The only reason for the headlines is the same reason for the humor: Its sex!

As for who knows about emigration: I'm an American, and I've been living as an expatriot for 7.5 years, in several countries (including the UK). It is, at best, a boring, time consuming matter, for those who have their papers in order.
posted by Goofyy at 6:46 AM on January 3, 2006

Civil servants horny and lazy! How exactly is this even qualified as news? Oh, it's sex. Never mind. Surely letting some attactive women into the UK can only be good for the country.

Hah, good point. Maybe we (by we, I mean the US) should fasttrack visas for hot chicks in general.
posted by delmoi at 7:00 AM on January 3, 2006

Anyway, I was going to say, hasn't this been going on forever? Of course I was thinking of having sex with citizens, and marrying them, not just fucking immigration officials. Talk about cutting out the middle man.
posted by delmoi at 7:02 AM on January 3, 2006

According to my Japanese friend, no. The fee is a part of it but there was a lot of writing back and forth between the country of origin and England. His (student) visa was running out and the situation was extremely unclear and precarious.

Don't worry; if he gets shot by the police everyone will still call him an "illegal immigrant"
posted by delmoi at 7:03 AM on January 3, 2006

Anti-male sexism.

Maybe some guys would like an opportunity to give a bj for a visa too?

Misandrists!
posted by HTuttle at 7:46 AM on January 3, 2006

I guess I picked the wrong week to stop being an immigration officer.
posted by NationalKato at 7:49 AM on January 3, 2006

I agree that in Britain, where this happened, it's clearly illegal and will get due persecu-er, prosecution.

I'm just here representing opposition to the stance that sex should be blanketly viewed as scandalous when associated with paying for something. It's only viewable as immoral to those whose moral templates are needlessly overreaching.

This is, in essence, the same kind of rationale of people who think that grotesque art should be made illegal because of the "ew" factor. Which further filters down to the age-old "is there really such a thing as victimless crime" question.

With that said, on an ideological note, I'm saying that in a sexually and commercially enlightened country, a service alternative to paying a fee could be sex.

Services can be labeled with specific monetary values, and it is logistically no different from paying with Euros or US dollars. Just a different means to account for a monetary debt. This is a basic aspect of capitalism.

But, heh, sex for a visa renewal is a special circumstance even with the most laissez-faire of ideological perspectives can't really back up.

The trouble becomes that the entity you're trying to pay or service in this scenario is the government. You can pay the government money, you can even perform a service for a government program (community service, like what civil offenders often get saddled with to "pay their debt to society"), but sex seems to be about the only exception because, regrettably, it's just not physically possible to "sex" a government agency or other unowned entities.

Choosing sex as a service option to pay a debt is a capitalistic viability; it is also, however, ethically suppressed. I agree with that only in the sense that it would be open to discrimination (like what happened in London- only hot chicks get this as an option) and thusly made unviable unless both the options to pay via fee and pay via service were available to all.

But that only means I disagree with it on a personal ethical level. In terms of punitive governing, it's only fair that it remain an option. After all, if the seller wants his roof repaired there's already a preference for payment from roof repairers. One potential buyer is offering money and another is offering roof repairs, the sale goes to the appropriate buyer. If the seller wants sex and one potential buyer is attractive, the other ugly, the sale goes, appropriately, to the one s/he finds the most appealing (which, I mean, you never know...).

But practically speaking, the above example only affects trade between individuals and small businesses. Even if we lived in that type of society, there would still be Walmarts and supermalls and so forth where everyone can go and simply pay via cash/credit. So this doesn't qualify as "exploitation" or "discrimination" in my book.

Nevertheless, I doubt there's a single modern country that has the cultural and legal tolerance and progressiveness necessary to accomplish this without discrimination. But if there were a place, I'd be there instead of here right now.
posted by Emotive Adamantium at 8:08 AM on January 3, 2006

Goofyy - you being an american are somewhat privileged as you are perceived as being a desirable immigrant. Such is not the case if you hold any latin american passport (they mention brazil in the report) or any other passport from any other third world country.....

as to your remark about "it's (just) sex", well, i do not mean to be harsh but you would certainly not see it that way if it was your wife, sister, mother or daughter the one having to give in to her boss's demands in order to keep her job.... or would you? I am terribly sorry but I see no humor in this.
posted by libelula at 8:17 AM on January 3, 2006

Emotive, as interesting as your argument is it really doesn't apply to this situation without some major changes in the relationship between the payer/payee relationship...

One can choose where to buy a roof, not where one can apply for an extension for a visa in order to keep working/staying in the country.

It ceases to be free commerce when you have to buy a roof for fear of freezing to death and the only person to buy it off of demands sex as payment. If you say "yes", it's not exactly consensual.

I find the situation truly disgusting and not exactly deserving of flippant humour.
posted by slimepuppy at 8:29 AM on January 3, 2006

Ahah nice. Nope in U.S. they're stupid, they could steal half the country nobody would notice, see Bush Admin, a success in the art of making other pay. The other half is already taken by these who selectively apply free market theory and turned it into a financial based religion.

They're so stupid they could steal...that makes no sense--it's like saying THE JEWS are stupid, and yet control everything! Besides, President Bush and his cabinet are not "civil servants." Although, they are likely smarter than you.
posted by ParisParamus at 8:35 AM on January 3, 2006

slimepuppy:
Quote [Emotive Adamantium]-->"sex for a visa renewal is a special circumstance that even the most laissez-faire of ideological perspectives can't really back up."

So yes, I DO agree with you, but for untraditional reasons that required sufficient explaining. I went off topic a bit because flat-out saying "sex for [x] is digusting" comes off as sounding narrow-minded.
posted by Emotive Adamantium at 8:41 AM on January 3, 2006

ParisParamus: I'm trying to guess which thread you were meaning to post in...?
posted by Emotive Adamantium at 8:48 AM on January 3, 2006

Ahah nice. Nope in U.S. they're stupid, they could steal half the country nobody would notice, see Bush Admin, a success in the art of making other pay. The other half is already taken by these who selectively apply free market theory and turned it into a financial based religion.

They're so stupid they could steal...that makes no sense--it's like saying THE JEWS are stupid, and yet control everything! Besides, President Bush and his cabinet are not "civil servants." Although, they are likely smarter than you.

Fuck you too, mathowie.
posted by I Love Tacos at 9:02 AM on January 3, 2006

It doesn't really matter Emo Adam - it comes out like that whatever thread it's in.
posted by longbaugh at 9:04 AM on January 3, 2006

:) Kinda like someone took a highlighter to a mess of ranty propaganda in an exotic language, babelfished the highlighted segments as a block into English and posted it onto Mefi.
posted by Emotive Adamantium at 9:24 AM on January 3, 2006

I can this happening for the pretty women visa applicants but why in the UK? Geez, it rains there almost every day.
What I'd like to know is, what are my chances of getting a visa in this manner, in Bermuda?
posted by GoodJob! at 9:49 AM on January 3, 2006

You don't need a visa to go to Bermuda.

Of course, if there was a place where US Citizens had to have sex with the immigration officers in order to get in, it would become the next hot sex-tourism spot.
posted by b1tr0t at 9:57 AM on January 3, 2006

And all this time I have been having sex in exchange for nothing.
posted by maxsparber at 10:00 AM on January 3, 2006

b1tr0t, that's just your regular tourist's visa. I was speaking of a work visa.
posted by GoodJob! at 11:14 AM on January 3, 2006

Didn't Ali G do this when he was an MP? (in his movie)
posted by rbs at 1:33 PM on January 3, 2006

Dont get me started on MP's!!
posted by maxmix at 12:30 AM on January 4, 2006