Prognosis

January 9, 2006 1:22 PM

Osama bin Laden is dead?
And, according to Iranians I trust, Osama bin Laden finally departed this world in mid-December. The al Qaeda leader died of kidney failure and was buried in Iran, where he had spent most of his time since the destruction of al Qaeda in Afghanistan.
posted by The Jesse Helms (102 comments total)

.
posted by punkbitch at 1:24 PM on January 9, 2006

.
posted by wakko at 1:25 PM on January 9, 2006

so....something must have happened to need covering up in the media.. did Cheney just eat a baby?
posted by destro at 1:26 PM on January 9, 2006

I will wait for corroboration from sources more reliable than Iranians trusted by a Contributing Editor of the National Review Online.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:27 PM on January 9, 2006

The architect of 9/11 and the creator of Palestinian terrorism are gone. The guiding lights of our terrorist enemies are sitting on cracking thrones, challenged by young men and women who look to us for support. Not just words, and, above all, not promises that the war against the terror masters will soon end with a premature abandonment of what was always a miserably limited battlefield. This should be our moment.

Yeah, and look how we've fucked it up.
posted by wakko at 1:28 PM on January 9, 2006

Looks like he's got the Iran chops, since he was a key figure in Iran-Contra.
posted by fixedgear at 1:28 PM on January 9, 2006

he died of neglect, the forgotten toy of a spoiled child. sniff.
posted by Hat Maui at 1:29 PM on January 9, 2006

Um, just because Michael Ledeen is trying to lay the groundwork for an invasion of Iran ("Look, Iran, sheltered Osama! I said so!") as well as cover for Bush's failure to capture the person responsible for 9/11 ("Look, Osama is dead! So there's no need to look for him any more!"), doesn't mean you have to assist him in disseminating his made-up stories.
posted by jellicle at 1:29 PM on January 9, 2006

The architect of 9/11 and the creator of Palestinian terrorism are gone.

Give him a chance, fella. People have recovered from strokes before.
posted by Wataki at 1:30 PM on January 9, 2006

Dig him up so we can kill him!
posted by brain_drain at 1:31 PM on January 9, 2006

He was poisoned by the Jews?
posted by HTuttle at 1:31 PM on January 9, 2006

Abramoff and Bush go way back
12 dead in helicoptor crash
28 Killed at Iraq Ministry
posted by destro at 1:32 PM on January 9, 2006

I will wait for corroboration from sources more reliable than Iranians trusted by a Contributing Editor of the National Review Online.

Google seems to think he's dead.
posted by tapeguy at 1:34 PM on January 9, 2006

Is this the fourth or fifth time he's died? I lost count.
posted by fandango_matt at 1:37 PM on January 9, 2006

Heh.
posted by fandango_matt at 1:38 PM on January 9, 2006

the creator of Palestinian terrorism

WTF?
posted by Artw at 1:39 PM on January 9, 2006

Give him a chance, fella. People have recovered from strokes before.

Zing! Nicely done.
posted by frogan at 1:39 PM on January 9, 2006

We may have to start atrributing that "the reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated" to bin Laden instead of Mark Twain. Pakistan's President Musharraf thought he was dead in January 2002. The FBI's counterterrorism chief thought he was dead in July 2002. In July 2004 a virus writer said he commited suicide. Then he popped up with a video in November 2004--unless that was a fake (uh, right). An Islamist web site said it had heard he was dead in April 2005. Some people thought he died in an earthquake in October 2005. It's all very confusing, but if President Bush still wants him dead or alive, I guess it doesn't really matter.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:42 PM on January 9, 2006

Dead or alive, I'm not sure it really makes a difference. Those who will want to, will believe he is dead. In others minds, he will undoubtedly live because they will prefer to believe that. Regardless, what irks me is how Mr. Ledeen so despicably and brazenly calls OBL the 'architect of Palestinian terrorism'. When the first Palestinian intifada was ongoing, OBL was likely to be fighting alongside his CIA friends at the time against the Soviets in Afghanistan.
posted by Azaadistani at 1:43 PM on January 9, 2006

I'm pretty sure he was talking about Arafat.
posted by billysumday at 1:43 PM on January 9, 2006

I don't see this on any major news source. So it must be true.
posted by wfc123 at 1:44 PM on January 9, 2006

DEAD ! DEAD ? Quick get embalming agents we fucking need our scarecrow alive !!
posted by elpapacito at 1:45 PM on January 9, 2006

"The architect of 9/11 and the creator of Palestinian terrorism are gone."

Well, I dunno about the second part, but Dick Cheney is still alive and kicking, bum ticker or no.
posted by stenseng at 1:45 PM on January 9, 2006

Faint of Butt writes "I will wait for corroboration from sources more reliable than Iranians trusted by a Contributing Editor of the National Review Online."

Why do you hate America so much?
posted by OmieWise at 1:47 PM on January 9, 2006

Even if this is true, it's ultimately irrelevant. Al Qaeda isn't a regular, hierarchical organization with a formal leadership structure. Members of Al Qaeda seem to work in a decentralized manner without needing to consult the top leadership, so it's not like they'd fall apart if Osama and all of his friends were to die. There's no real command structure, so there's no one person that would cause Al Qaeda to crumble if he died.
posted by unreason at 1:51 PM on January 9, 2006

according to Iranians I trust, Osama bin Laden finally departed this world in mid-December. The al Qaeda leader died of kidney failure and was buried in Iran,

OBL died in Iran => Iran harbors terrorists
OBL didn't die in Iran => even Iranians friends aren't trustworthy

Certainly a "can't lose" claim to make by someone who doesn't like Iran.
posted by DirtyCreature at 1:55 PM on January 9, 2006

Yes, with Osama Bin Laden out of the picture, there would be no one to talk Middle Eastern populations into being angry about things like US support for Israel's crimes, US-UK sanctions that killed a million Iraqis, an illegal invasion to disarm a country of WMD no one thought they had, etc. Reason will once again reign among the natives!
posted by Wataki at 1:58 PM on January 9, 2006

heh part two

dios cheated, because his name means something.
posted by shmegegge at 1:59 PM on January 9, 2006

Well, he's dead to me.
posted by gigawhat? at 2:04 PM on January 9, 2006

In other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
posted by LeLiLo at 2:07 PM on January 9, 2006

" I will wait for corroboration from sources more reliable than Iranians trusted by a Contributing Editor of the National Review Online."


In all seriousness, National Review is as reliable as any other source you are going to find. If it has Conservative spin, it comes from omitting facts, not from fabricating them.

Personally, I don't think Osama's death would mean that much. The War of Terror isn't linked to a few individuals, but an ideology that will continue on for a while. And then die, with the help of the US military killing some significant fraction of it's adherents.
posted by ParisParamus at 2:08 PM on January 9, 2006

The War of Terror

Your slip is showing.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 2:13 PM on January 9, 2006

Shenanigans. Why would Persian Shia mullahs host a filthy Arab bent on recreating the Sunni caliphate?

This would only take place in some sort of bizarro world where Pat Robertson is leading the cause to free Mumia.
posted by Pollomacho at 2:13 PM on January 9, 2006

Paris: ideologies don't die ;( they're rooted in ignorance. Look at how people believes market is panacea.
posted by elpapacito at 2:14 PM on January 9, 2006

I call shenanigans on the heh thing too.
posted by Pollomacho at 2:15 PM on January 9, 2006

It does seem odd that he has not been heard from in over a year. If it is true, good riddance. Better that he should perish as a vermin hiding from society, than at the hands of the military and become martyr.
posted by caddis at 2:17 PM on January 9, 2006

"Paris: ideologies don't die ;( they're rooted in ignorance. Look at how people believes market is panacea."

And, how many people hold this belief, seriously?
posted by ParisParamus at 2:23 PM on January 9, 2006

shmegegge, what's your fucking problem?
posted by Rothko at 2:24 PM on January 9, 2006

I liked the "UBL has achieved ambient cave temperature" line of a few years back
posted by A189Nut at 2:27 PM on January 9, 2006

Osama bin Laden announcing that Michael Ledeen had died of kidney failure, now that would have been news.

bin Laden has by now definitely beaten Jesus in the death plus resurrection department. He didn't pull it off only once. He keeps doing it all the time. For all his faults, you have to admire that kind of resilience.

Ledeen, on the other hand, is just someone for whose sleaziness words haven't yet been invented.
posted by funambulist at 2:27 PM on January 9, 2006

leilio said: " In other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead."

Abe Vigoda, on the other hand, still lives.
posted by socratic at 2:29 PM on January 9, 2006

MORTICIAN: Bring out your dead!
Bring out your dead!
[clang] Bring out your dead!
[clang] Bring out your dead!
[clang] Bring out your dead!
[clang] Bring out your dead!
CUSTOMER: Here's one
MORTICIAN: Ninepence.
BIN LADEN: I'm not dead!
MORTICIAN: What?
CUSTOMER: Nothing -- here's your nine pence.
BIN LADEN: I'm not dead!
MORTICIAN: Here -- he says he's not dead!
CUSTOMER: Yes, he is.
BIN LADEN: I'm not!
MORTICIAN: He isn't.
CUSTOMER: Well, he will be soon, he's very ill.
BIN LADEN: I'm getting better!
CUSTOMER: No, you're not -- you'll be stone dead in a moment.
MORTICIAN: Oh, I can't take him like that -- it's against
regulations.
BIN LADEN: I don't want to go on the cart!
CUSTOMER: Oh, don't be such a baby.
MORTICIAN: I can't take him...
BIN LADEN: I feel fine!
CUSTOMER: Oh, do us a favor...
MORTICIAN: I can't.
CUSTOMER: Well, can you hang around a couple of minutes? He
won't be long.
MORTICIAN: Naaah, I got to go on to Robinson's -- they've lost
nine today.
CUSTOMER: Well, when is your next round?
MORTICIAN: Thursday.
BIN LADEN: I think I'll go for a walk.
posted by spock at 2:30 PM on January 9, 2006

Osama bin Laden is either dead or alive.
(Wisdom of CNN)

Dying in a shadow would be a brilliant move. Not that I’m happy for such a tactic, but it is smart...

And of course I’d like to see the surprised look on his face when he arrives in hell.
(I suppose I’ll see him there)
posted by Smedleyman at 2:38 PM on January 9, 2006

I believe he wrote the entire article just to link Palestine, Iran and Bin Laden. That's the kind of intellectually honest person Ledeen is.
posted by cell divide at 2:38 PM on January 9, 2006

Pollomacho has it.
"Shenanigans. Why would Persian Shia mullahs host a filthy Arab bent on recreating the Sunni caliphate?"

Iran has never shown any love for OBL, and vise-versa.
This is just too fishy.
I do not believe this for a minute.
Only folks who see Muslims as a single homogenized mass, and do not appreciate the large differences and allegiances that they maintain would believe this.
posted by TheFeatheredMullet at 2:39 PM on January 9, 2006

Ledeen's shamelessness would make me laugh if he weren't such a despicable liar, Fascist (he's on the record as a Mussolini fan) and war profiteer
posted by matteo at 2:47 PM on January 9, 2006

Don't cry for me, Afghanistan. You see I never really left you.
posted by Citizen Premier at 3:01 PM on January 9, 2006

And then die, with the help of the US military killing some significant fraction of it's adherents.

Are you the same guy who suggested we cut starfish in half to kill them?
posted by Citizen Premier at 3:04 PM on January 9, 2006

The scoop of the century, and he buries it 350 words into a weekly column?

I think not.
posted by dhartung at 3:10 PM on January 9, 2006

You know, do you think the National Review contributor would be hanging out with any Iranians who would actually know bin Laden, or be close enough to hear this from a primary source?
It's just like they used to say- the King is dead, long live the King.
posted by 235w103 at 3:11 PM on January 9, 2006

"Mr. Ledeen so despicably and brazenly calls OBL the 'architect of Palestinian terrorism'."

Um, no. He's referring to the recently deceased Yasser Arafat. The article is about the deaths of a number prominent Arab leaders recently. OBL is just one of them.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 3:12 PM on January 9, 2006

His t-shirt sales are going to go through the roof.
posted by 2sheets at 3:21 PM on January 9, 2006

dhartung has it. Actually, now that I think about I'm going to go ahead and flag the whole post.
posted by elwoodwiles at 3:23 PM on January 9, 2006

Actually, now that I think about I'm going to go ahead and flag the whole post.

You just got around to that? I did it an hour ago, and I can't believe it's still here. A link to not just an op-ed, but a couple of sentences buried in an op-ed, with zero credibility... well done, TJH.
posted by languagehat at 3:29 PM on January 9, 2006

You know, do you think the National Review contributor would be hanging out with any Iranians who would actually know bin Laden

Well, CIA connections, you know. /tinfoil

For sure Michael "Cuckoo for Chalabi" Ledeen wouldn't be hanging out with any Iranians who would actually know bin Laden, but you bet he'd believe 'em if they said so.
posted by furiousthought at 3:38 PM on January 9, 2006

Oh crap. Somehow, I thought that flagging something as "fantastic post/comment" had "fantastic" in the sense of "fantasy/nonsense." My verbal flair gets the best of me.
Is it too late to change my flag?
posted by Citizen Premier at 3:44 PM on January 9, 2006

"Are you the same guy who suggested we cut starfish in half to kill them?"

Obviously we disagree on this point. But I think there's good evidence, from Mayor Guiliani's crime successes to the Israel's successes, that criminals and terorrists are not starfish.
posted by ParisParamus at 3:50 PM on January 9, 2006

"...according to Iranians I trust"

Yuh! And I know a Welshman who saw a UFO! No, really! I so trust the dude!

Come on. I don't flag posts because it's the behaviour of the wanker, but if I did flag posts, I'd flag this one. At least I would if there was an "Oh for pity's sake get a grip" flag.
posted by Decani at 3:52 PM on January 9, 2006

And then die, with the help of the US military killing some significant fraction of it's adherents.

I'm sure the Romans thought that about those annoying Christians.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:03 PM on January 9, 2006

I have got to agree with Paris - 3,000 dead Americans did a bang up job of changing the USA's ideology. It seems that by killing "a significant fraction of it's adherents", the terrorists really made a significant change to the world.

(does anyone really believe anything Paris says?)
posted by longbaugh at 4:10 PM on January 9, 2006

Civil, I think the big difference is that some ideologies are self-contradictory, like Islamofascism and Communism. Military intervention doesn't make the end of these systems any more likely; it just greatly accelerates the timetable. That's why Christianity survived: it may not make sense to you, but it isn't self-contradictory.

(In the case of Islamofascism, the self-contradiction is that it's the Evil West from which the resources for terrorism are obtained; no West, and no wealth to fund the wackos).
posted by ParisParamus at 4:11 PM on January 9, 2006

Thanks for shitting in the post longbaugh. Use the WC next time.
posted by ParisParamus at 4:12 PM on January 9, 2006

Uh huh - flag it then. Don't like it when someone else trolls fucko?
posted by longbaugh at 4:16 PM on January 9, 2006

pp: And, how many people hold this belief, seriously?

One too many, but that's not the point . You suggest the U.S. mil operations will wipe out enough of the "ideologists" and their minions, evidently by the means of attrition war ; U.S. has endless resources compared to ideologuers (or so we think) and we just need to throw more soldiers as them and eventually they'll be "pacified" at a price, be it corruption or blood.

I would agree with this outlook , except that I don't see the main problems solved : americans and american influence OUT of the area or alternatively paying an heavy price for what they want. There's little to lose for them except precious resources that could make many rich and give a less horrid future for some people, a lot to lose for U.S in term of stability and economic repercussions.

I'd say that this perspective is likey to fuel ideologuers and their financers for a long while. Additionally consider that any remaning positive perception of America is gone , I doubt there's still somebody out there not thinking americans may invade their country and they'd better do something about that.

on preview: pp you're suggesting terrorism is being financed by western countries ?
posted by elpapacito at 4:24 PM on January 9, 2006

He is resident scholar in the Freedom Chair at the American Enterprise Institute.

Ya' want fries with that?
posted by signal at 4:29 PM on January 9, 2006

With apologies to smedleyman.
posted by greatgefilte at 4:30 PM on January 9, 2006

YAY! It's time to go and bomb eye-rack! They harbor evil, fithy terrists! BOMB 'em NOW!

NOW!!

And wait: I think that North Korea plans to bring Osammy back ta life and harbor him there too!

Bombs all around! Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!
posted by eener at 4:31 PM on January 9, 2006

That line is too phunny ! Maybe it's photoshopped ?
posted by elpapacito at 4:33 PM on January 9, 2006

I dunno, ask Yossi Vardi.
posted by greatgefilte at 4:36 PM on January 9, 2006

“That's why Christianity survived: it may not make sense to you, but it isn't self-contradictory.”

Aha ha ha!

Seriously though, the first time I heard the term “Fucko” was in the movie Midnight Run. Seems like everyone’s using it now. It’s a nifty term.

Also I thought it was just the neo-cons who play “shoot the messenger”
Not that dhartung’s:“The scoop of the century, and he buries it 350 words into a weekly column?” isn’t a completely compelling argument.

al-Zawahiri (wasn’t he dead...or captured...or something?) has been making most of the statements lately. Since about Oct. 2004 no OBL.
Apparently though the terrorists agree with us that if we leave Iraq, we lose. Huh.
posted by Smedleyman at 4:38 PM on January 9, 2006

“With apologies to smedleyman.” -posted by greatgefilte

Not neccessary. I think enough folks know I’m lazy. Nice btw.
posted by Smedleyman at 4:41 PM on January 9, 2006

"on preview: pp you're suggesting terrorism is being financed by western countries?"

No. I'm suggesting the without Western oil wealth Osama and crew would just be poor, feable bedoins. Muslim cultures, at least since they went extremist, have been economic zeros.
posted by ParisParamus at 4:46 PM on January 9, 2006

Isn't there a lot of oil in... the middle east?
posted by papakwanz at 5:02 PM on January 9, 2006

"Obviously we disagree on this point. But I think there's good evidence, from Mayor Guiliani's crime successes to the Israel's successes, that criminals and terorrists are not starfish."

No, but you have to admit US actions in the middle east have made groups such as the taliban more popular. Whether or not we can burn out the fire remains to be seen, but I personally wouldn't bet on it.
posted by Citizen Premier at 5:09 PM on January 9, 2006

Maybe he's dead AND alive. Like ... like a post-911 schrodinger's cat.
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 5:27 PM on January 9, 2006

Osama's had more comebacks than the Joker at this point.
posted by iron chef morimoto at 5:29 PM on January 9, 2006

In the case of Islamofascism, the self-contradiction is that it's the Evil West from which the resources for terrorism are obtained; no West, and no wealth to fund the wackos

I'm sorry, I don't think this explanation holds water. If the wackos are indeed as wacko as some would like to think, they'll be just as terror-ific with sticks and stones as they would with C4. That is, their ability to unleash terror on a less widespread canvas than before (without the West's fancy arsenal) doesn't change their motivation one lick, and isn't a self-contradiction by any stretch of the imagination.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:52 PM on January 9, 2006

Yes, but ready and willing /= able. Its the $$$ that moves them from backwater freak to able danger.
posted by ParisParamus at 6:05 PM on January 9, 2006

iron chef morimoto: Does this mean he'll be shooting Comissioner Gordon's daughter in the spine soon?

Poor Jenna...
posted by Coda at 6:08 PM on January 9, 2006

PP: How much funding did 9/11 really require?

What non-Taleban-coattails-riding, non-Baathist-coopting Al Qaida attacks are required a serious amount of funding?

We're the ones with the billion dollar planes, they're the ones with boxcutters and plane tickets.
posted by Coda at 6:11 PM on January 9, 2006

are
posted by Coda at 6:12 PM on January 9, 2006

what does it mean when you post a single "." in a thread?
posted by mwhybark at 6:40 PM on January 9, 2006

“Yes, but ready and willing /= able. Its the $$$ that moves them from backwater freak to able danger.” - posted by ParisParamus

Paris....I could have funded the 9/11 hijackers. It cost almost nothing to do (relative to a defense budget - I’d probably have to sell my house).
That said, I cede your point that the countries sitting on the oil have had regimes propped up by that wealth. But we wouldn’t give a shit about them in the first place if they didn’t have the oil, so there wouldn’t be any motivation to tangle.

Good lord, I responded civilly. Must be more of an optimist than I thought.
posted by Smedleyman at 6:43 PM on January 9, 2006

"PP: How much funding did 9/11 really require?"

You raise a good question. My answer is that the investments needed for terorrism are back-loaded (or some term); the investments were not for the actual strike, but the training, the propaganda; the bribery associated with creating safe harbors for terrorists, etc.

Frankly, I am not satisfied with my response, but I think it's a start...
posted by ParisParamus at 7:27 PM on January 9, 2006

"(relative to a defense budget - I’d probably have to sell my house)."

Yes, terrorism is cheaper, much cheaper than prosecuting a war, and defending against it--asymetry, I think is what they call this fact?
posted by ParisParamus at 7:28 PM on January 9, 2006

“what does it mean when you post a single "." in a thread?” - posted by mwhybark

It’s been my experiance that it means you regret a loss or death and/or have no words for it. Typically.
I’m not sure what punkbitch and wakko et.al are intending (whether sarcasm, irony, straight slapstick, courtesy, knee jerk reaction, seriousness, or whatnot).

I’d like to see OBL brought to justice rather than dead. But that’s me.
posted by Smedleyman at 7:29 PM on January 9, 2006

"asymetry, I think is what they call this fact?" - posted by ParisParamus

Yup. Loosely.

I'll add they'd (that is the Muwahhidun or wahabbi if you want to snarkily describe the Salafi Dawah fan club) probably still be giving us trouble like most fantatics. Less so with the oil $.
On the other hand the association between the Al Saud and the Al ash Shaykh, as Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab and his crew wouldn’t have been as effective in mantaining political loyalty as religious obligation without the oil bucks.
Abd al-Aziz wouldn’t have been able to slowly modernize without shaking the Muwahhidun revival in the 1920’s.
They would have remained sand dwellers and we wouldn’t have to deal with their ijtihad bullshit in foreign relations.
As it is, they didn’t start exporting this stuff, we started knocking on their doors when we needed oil to fuel our machines. Particularly during the world wars, we (allies and axis) loved kissing their asses.

...seriously, did anyone read “Dune”? It’s pretty damned good in covering some of these concepts. Frank Herbert did lotsa research.
posted by Smedleyman at 7:56 PM on January 9, 2006

Know your sources. Ledeen is a well know neocon propagandist all the way back to 1980, when he penned a fabricated book called "The Terror Network" that traced all terror networks back to the Soviet Union. It turned out to be bullshit just like I'm sure this is.
posted by any major dude at 8:23 PM on January 9, 2006

No. I'm suggesting the without Western oil wealth Osama and crew would just be poor, feeble Bedouins.

Would that be before or after the US payments/training during the Russian/Afghanistan conflict? How about the construction business of the Bin Ladens? Buildings can exist w/o oil.
posted by rough ashlar at 8:25 PM on January 9, 2006

Frankly, I am not satisfied with my response,

I agree, you ARE a disappointment.
posted by rough ashlar at 8:26 PM on January 9, 2006

Would that be before or after the US payments/training during the Russian/Afghanistan conflict? How about the construction business of the Bin Ladens? Buildings can exist w/o oil.

Both; before and after. The West still provided the seed money for all the horrors.
posted by ParisParamus at 8:45 PM on January 9, 2006

“what does it mean when you post a single "." in a thread?” - posted by mwhybark

From MeFi Wiki:

"." (The Period) - The reason people place a period as the sole content of their comment is usually to denote a moment of silence. Not really a joke, but certainly a bit of MeFi slang.
posted by Capt. Bligh at 8:54 PM on January 9, 2006

Osama's had more comebacks than the Joker at this point.

Pre-Crises Joker or post?
Earth 1 or Earth 2, or the one from Batman Beyond?
posted by doctor_negative at 9:08 PM on January 9, 2006

pssst... thanks Capn but that was intended as a sort of joke, or 'humor,' as I've heard it called... sorry for the confusion...
posted by mwhybark at 10:13 PM on January 9, 2006

I just love that no matter where I go, no matter how long I'm away, I can always return to find Paris Paramus taking a poo-poo in Metafilter.
posted by Ty Webb at 10:26 PM on January 9, 2006

Since we've declared a war on terrorism, which is a tactic and not and actual opponent, we will forever be at war regardless of who the enemy of the moment is. That is, unless we change our focus and/or our policy.

As for the current conflict against Islamic fundamentalist groups who have declared war against the United States: It's hard to say what effect the death of Osama bin Laden, if it actually occurred, were to have on such organizations. By most accounts it's doubtful that he has had much operational control over the al-Qaeda for some time. At this point he seems to be more of a spiritual leader than anything else.

It's pretty clear that, historically, the death of a spiritual leader doesn't necessarily mean a weakening of his influence. So aside from the feel-good aspect of a movie villain getting his comeuppance, I'd suggest we save the party hats.

The revolution that Ledeen pines for in this article may not actually pan out to his liking. All the old bastards he mentions who are on death's door were young bastards once, and there are more than enough young bastards around to fill their shoes once they are gone.
posted by moonbiter at 2:55 AM on January 10, 2006

The Usual Suspects II

"Osama bin Laden IS Kaiser Soze!"
posted by Dunvegan at 5:09 AM on January 10, 2006

Ty Web, please go away again.
posted by ParisParamus at 6:19 AM on January 10, 2006

Azaadistani writes "Those who will want to, will believe he is dead. In others minds, he will undoubtedly live because they will prefer to believe that."

The guy is going to be like Elvis if they don't manage to have a public execution.
posted by Mitheral at 8:19 AM on January 10, 2006

feable bedoins.
posted by wakko at 8:53 AM on January 10, 2006

Ledeen is such a curious fellow. Intellectually dishonest and facile in service to the aesthetic perfection of the Neocon utopianism movement (cf. Neofuturism). He's like one of those computers that always gives the same result no matter what the data is (42?). Something to the effect of the brilliant zen-like understanding of the Bush Neocons...blah blah blah in big epic brushstrokes that would make Goering blush. The guy should stick to art history and be given about as much credence on the geopolitical stage as a stoned D & D player (with apologies to Stoned D & D Players everywhere).
posted by Skygazer at 11:47 AM on January 10, 2006

That's why Christianity survived: it may not make sense to you, but it isn't self-contradictory

Comedy gold!
posted by Decani at 5:06 PM on January 10, 2006