Try not to make any more sequels on your way through the parking lot
January 10, 2006 3:30 PM   Subscribe

The follow-up to Clerks, the imaginatively-titled Clerks 2. After trying to kill off Jay and Silent Bob with the poorly received Jersey Girl, director Kevin Smith relented (more here) and has made a follow-up to his debut, Clerks. Clerks 2 (still about 8 months away) sees a lot of the old cast reunite for no-doubt weed, dick and gay jokes along with numerous Star Wars references. There's a trailer with Anthrax's "Among The Living" blasting nicely over the top and, as is the norm with Smith, loads of other web "stuff". Oh, and he also has his own blog. Snoogans, etc...
posted by TheDonF (127 comments total)

 
kevin smith sucks! FIRST!
posted by Hat Maui at 3:43 PM on January 10, 2006 [1 favorite]


I really enjoyed the original clerks, but I have enjoyed each Kevin Smith movie less than the last one. To be honest, I really don't see why he deserves the fanboy devotion he gets. I'll check this one out if it looks to be funny, but the trailer really offer any information either way.
posted by phatboy at 3:54 PM on January 10, 2006


This one looks pretty good though. I think Kevin Smith's movies can suck the farther he gets from what he really knows, but this looks close to his heart.

Did anyone spy "wheelieblog.org" in the trailer? It was already registered to view askew last summer.
posted by mathowie at 3:57 PM on January 10, 2006


His comics suck too...
posted by Artw at 3:58 PM on January 10, 2006


Among! Among! Among!
Nice post title
posted by Wolfdog at 4:00 PM on January 10, 2006


is it cool to dislike Kevin Smith here?

or are you all too *grown-up* to like Kevin Smith?

The films rock, Jason Mewes is a god and I'm gonna play the "you clearly dont get it" card if you think otherwise.
posted by 13twelve at 4:03 PM on January 10, 2006


phatboy is basically right.
posted by StrasbourgSecaucus at 4:03 PM on January 10, 2006


Good: Clerks, Dogma
Mediocre: Chasing Amy, Mallrats
Bad: Jersey Girl, Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back

Not that each one doesn't possess certain points from each category; it's just the overall feel.
posted by mystyk at 4:05 PM on January 10, 2006


I used to love Kevin Smith. I think I started to feel differently not because I "growed up" but because I started listening to the commentary tracks on his movies (and especially the cartoon show) and realized what a whiner he is. Waaaaahhh, Gramercy fucked up Mallrats, waaaaaahhh, ABC "didn't get" my brilliant cartoon show. Not that those aren't perfectly legitimate complaints, I'm sure there's more than a little truth to them, but damn, what a whiner.

And despite the unparallelled brilliance of putting Eliza Dushku into a latex catsuit, I just couldn't deal with Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back. It wasn't trying to be anything more than a "valentine to the fans" (I believe that's what he called it), but I still thought it sucked.
posted by Gator at 4:10 PM on January 10, 2006


How far can one man stretch one iota of talent?
posted by fire&wings at 4:11 PM on January 10, 2006


Well, he is inconsistent, but that trailer did make me laugh in more than a few spots.
posted by Relay at 4:15 PM on January 10, 2006


How far can one man stretch one iota of talent?

who knows, but perhaps we should ask kevin federline before kevin smith, given the size of their respective iotas.
posted by Hat Maui at 4:25 PM on January 10, 2006 [1 favorite]


I thought Jay & Silent Bob rocked, myself. YMMV, an' all that, I guess.
posted by kaemaril at 4:29 PM on January 10, 2006


fire&wings: I've seen many stretch none a lot further. Too often in "Hollywood" it's not the talent it's the hype.

The great thing about Smith is he says over and over that he is simply a guy making movies for himself. He doesn't boast he is making "art." You may not like his humor, dialogue, or directoral style, but you can't say he's pretending to be Kieslowski, Capra, or Kubrick. I'd rather see an honest Kevin Smith film any day over an "American Beauty," "Dances With Wolves" or "La Pianiste."
posted by ?! at 4:33 PM on January 10, 2006


I think the geeky fanboys dig Smith because he's an unabashed geeky fanboy himself. So I never understood the whole Kevin Smith backlash. He's not a great filmmaker in the Scorcese sense, but his films have a personal point of view that don't pander to the lowest common denominator. (Possibly save for Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back, though it did have its moments) I'll admit that I dug seeing characters from the other Jersey films (Such as Holden and Brodie) turn up in the trailer.

You can't say that about the lastest Jerry Bruckheimer 100 million dollar crapfest that has 10 screenwriting credits and has been focus grouped to death.

Give me a low budget Kevin Smith film anytime.
posted by bawanaal at 4:34 PM on January 10, 2006


I was pretty excited about this until I saw Affleck
posted by saraswati at 4:35 PM on January 10, 2006


It's not the size of the iota....
posted by SweetIceT at 4:41 PM on January 10, 2006


So if you actually enjoyed Jersey Girl, you won't get past the velvet rope? If so, color me ostracized from the smart set!
posted by ed at 4:44 PM on January 10, 2006


If you look at this mini-scene involving the Clerks characters that really could be seen as a preview of a sequel to clerks and understand how bad it is.....I would have to state that either: Smith needs to quit going to such characters OR if any semblance of a post-9/11 effect on culture really does exist, you could see that this stuff just is not so funny anymore (ok, you're stuck in traffic -- so what?).

Oh -- Jersey Girl, while ham-fisted and starring Affleck was actually a good movie. Liv Tyler and Carlin are great in it and, well, I love movies that end having that cheesy but good last line.

But, yikes, he needs to get rid of the Clerks guys fast. They're just annoying.
posted by narebuc at 4:45 PM on January 10, 2006


If you haven't already, watch his collection of campus lectures/visits An Evening with Kevin Smith. His humor comes through much better than in most of his movies. It has a great segment about Prince that is worth it alone.
posted by formless at 4:48 PM on January 10, 2006


Kevin Smith is my hero. And Clerks is the reason why. He portrayed my world honestly. And yeah, he's made a few shit movies since, but I'm kinda curious what Dante & Randal have been up to. And the Anthrax is a nice touch.
posted by jonmc at 4:50 PM on January 10, 2006


If you haven't already, watch his collection of campus lectures/visits

yeah, no thanks. but i appreciate the invite!
posted by Hat Maui at 4:52 PM on January 10, 2006 [1 favorite]


Never liked any of Smith's work, but different strokes for different folks. What always gets me is the fanaticism of some of his fans. A few times I've mentioned that I don't dig his movies and people have looked at me like I shat in the middle of the dinner table or something.
posted by brundlefly at 4:53 PM on January 10, 2006


What always gets me is the fanaticism of some of his fans.

Well, I can't speak for all Smith fans, but I think a lot of it comes from first of all, intense identification. Most films about young adults lean hard on either soap-opera or bohemian fantasies. Clerks just showed a funnier version of the way it actually was, at least for me and most people I knew. Plus there's the admiration of his gumtion in just getting the damn thing made.
posted by jonmc at 5:00 PM on January 10, 2006


Kevin Smith has never been an accomplished writer or director, but he scraped enough funny crap into Clerks and Mallrats to justify their release. I loved Mallrats, he hit his stride. While Chasing Amy was watchable, he should not have attempted it. Everything since then has been a disaster. Not only was Jay and Silent Bob not funny, it didn't even look like a film, watching it is like watching a blooper reel. Funny in very short periods, with acres of WTF thrown in for no reason. Throw in the clunky dialogue, supreme acting skills of Jason Lee, Jason Mewes and Ben Affleck and you have comedy turd.
posted by fire&wings at 5:01 PM on January 10, 2006


Clerks was classic and incredibly funny. Jay and Silent Bob, not so much. Jay is like the guy who used to sit behind you in class and kick your chair and then pretend to not know what you were talking about when you told him to stop. And then he'd do it again. Jay sucks balls.
posted by fenriq at 5:04 PM on January 10, 2006


and oh yeah: suck it, haters!
posted by jonmc at 5:05 PM on January 10, 2006


"How far can one man stretch one iota of talent?"

I give you Exhibit A: William Fucking Shatner.
posted by zoogleplex at 5:07 PM on January 10, 2006


formless : "If you haven't already, watch his collection of campus lectures/visits An Evening with Kevin Smith."

I second that. Funny stuff.
posted by graventy at 5:10 PM on January 10, 2006


I thought it was gonna be called "Passion of the Clerks"?

But then everybody bagged on him about it when he posted on AICN, so I guess he caved, I dunno.

And hey, let's not drag the genius of Shatner into this.

Denny Crane.
posted by First Post at 5:25 PM on January 10, 2006


I've been watching his films since 'Clerks' first saw the light of day. No matter what some say, the guy has recognizable and marketable talent.
Look at his friggin' wife fer chrisake!
That is not the kind of woman who jumps into bed with a talentless schmoe. She saw something there. Money! Mirth! Sex toys!
I can understand some people may not 'get it', but then again there are some out there who find him and his movies pretty amusing and thoughtful. One aspect of Smith's movies is dialogue and some of it is pretty insightful, 'Chasing Amy' being the best example of that. I don't think there are many out there in the biz who can nail numor, angst, and raw human emotions like he can. Yes there are some 'poopy jokes' thrown in there but that's part of the magic.
Another example of a good Kevin Smith movie is 'Dogma', that one had a lot of religious types up in arms; not because he didn't know what he was talking about but because he clearly did and presented it in a thoughtful and humorous manner.
So don't dog Kevin Smith, just go out there, rent a movie or two and let it sink into your brain. You won't be sorry you did. Might even put a smile on your face and a laugh in your belly.
posted by mk1gti at 5:34 PM on January 10, 2006


If you haven't already, watch his collection of campus lectures/visits An Evening with Kevin Smith.

Thirded. I am in no way a Kevin Smith fan, but An Evening With Kevin Smith is one of the most honest, interesting and amusing things I've seen (the story of his first date with his wife is hilarious, and it's worth watching just to hear the Prince story). Well worth watching, no matter what you think of his movies, he's an endearing, unpretentious and very entertaining speaker.
posted by biscotti at 5:38 PM on January 10, 2006


Looking back, I feel like Randal made that movie. And all the movies since then have suffered for not having him.
posted by spiderwire at 5:45 PM on January 10, 2006


I would have nore forgiveness for him if he learned how to frame a shot, how to write and shoot action, how to edit his own numbing wordieness, how to write dialogue so that everybody doesn't speak in the exact same rhythms as everybody else, how to direct real performances from secondary characters, and, more than anything, how to take criticism without turning into a pouty infant.

Sure, people liked him because they identified with his take on adolesence. However, he's still in his infancy, and shows no signs of artistic maturity. And don't point me to Dogma -- his didn't have the basic filmmaking competence to pull of what he wanted to attempt in that film.

Or pehaps I jsut don't get it.

PS: I do get it.
posted by Astro Zombie at 5:46 PM on January 10, 2006


David (All the Real Girls, Undertow) Gordon Green said it best about Smith:

"He kind of created a Special Olympics for film. They just kind of lowered the standard. I'm sure their parents are proud; it's just nothing I care to buy a ticket for."

That's it. Smith is, was, and always will be a hack - the rich kid from your junior year of high school who's parents were rich enough to buy him his own video camera & editing equipment. His films, besides having the aesthetics of something made by a high-schooler, show no understanding of the human condition and completely fail to reach outside his narrow little world of pop culture jokes and stiff bedsheets.

To further sum up his entire body of work - including
Clerks:
Hack. Hack hack hack hack hackity hack hack.
posted by item at 5:47 PM on January 10, 2006


The guy who played Dante turned into Brian Peppers.
posted by Falconetti at 5:49 PM on January 10, 2006


oh yeah: and I see where I'm supposed to 'get it'; it's just not fucking worth getting.
posted by item at 5:49 PM on January 10, 2006


Don't sugarcoat it item, tell uys how you really feel. But then again you dissed the Replacements, too, so I shouldn't be surprised.
posted by jonmc at 5:51 PM on January 10, 2006


item, I'm pretty sure clerks was shot on film.
posted by delmoi at 5:52 PM on January 10, 2006


i'm with the "suck it haters" crowd. i've always found Smith to be clever.

Amusingly, i think his best stuff is the ones people typically hate;

Mallrats: "That kid is back on the elevator!"

and Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back: Scene where Shannon Elizabeth walks into Moobies and Run DMC's Tougher than Leather starts playing.
posted by quin at 5:53 PM on January 10, 2006


Did I dis the Replacements? Weird: sounds like something I'd do, but I don't remember doing it.

Coming from such a stronghold of subtleness such as yourself, jonmc, that's grand advice.
posted by item at 5:54 PM on January 10, 2006


I didn't say it wasn't shot on film, delmoi, though I'm kind of surprised it was given the way it looks.
posted by item at 5:55 PM on January 10, 2006


I saw a thing on one of the pay-for-it movie channels that was clips of Kevin Smith speaking at colleges. It was hilarious! If you can ever see him speak, try to do it.
posted by k8t at 5:57 PM on January 10, 2006


subtlety is overrated. if it's worth saying it's worth saying loud. and like I said before, I'll always be grateful for Smith showing young adulthood the way it actually is rather than offering up some stupid fantasy.

(of course we're arguing about taste here, ultimately, which is in the end subjective and pointless)

but yeah, you did diss the Replacements. There was a link to some vintage videos and you said "ugh. bar rock." I responded that you obviously weren't spending enough time in bars.

But I digress. Smith and the Replacements have a lot in common: a grubby aesthetic, a fairly populist veiwpoint,an affection for vulgaity and crass pop culture. That attracts some people and repels others. That's not a value judgement, merely an observation.
posted by jonmc at 6:01 PM on January 10, 2006


item writes "...the rich kid from your junior year of high school who's parents were rich enough to buy him his own video camera & editing equipment."

No, that would be M. Night Shyamalan. Other than that, I pretty much agree with you.
posted by brundlefly at 6:02 PM on January 10, 2006 [1 favorite]


I can understand some people may not 'get it', but then again there are some out there who find him and his movies pretty amusing and thoughtful. ... So don't dog Kevin Smith, just go out there, rent a movie or two and let it sink into your brain.

mk1gti, that kind of comment is exactly why it's often frustrating to have a conversation with hardcore Smith fans. Some of us have seen the films more than once, let them sink into our brains, "get it" just fine to the extent that it can be "gotten," and decided ultimately that we just didn't care for it, for various reasons. Smith himself may not make any outright claims to be making great art, but when the inevitable response (by himself or his legions of fans) to any criticism is, "You just don't get it," it's both dismissive and petulant.

He's had some great ideas, but he needs to work on the execution. And on how to take criticism, as Astro Zombie pointed out.
posted by Gator at 6:02 PM on January 10, 2006


jonmc writes "a grubby aesthetic, a fairly populist veiwpoint,an affection for vulgaity and crass pop culture. That attracts some people and repels others. That's not a value judgement, merely an observation."

Actually, I'm attracted to all those things... but I still don't like Smith's work. Like Gator, it's the execution that ruins it for me.
posted by brundlefly at 6:07 PM on January 10, 2006


Actually, I'm attracted to all those things... but I still don't like Smith's work.

well, like I said, taste is ultimately subjective, and I'm not claiming that he's Orson Welles or anything. he's merely a guy who made a couple of films* that resonated deeply with me and a lot of people I know. Maybe if you're not a part of that demographic it dosen't resonate as much. There's plenty of stuff a lot of people like that I hate, too.

*Clerks and Chasing Amy.And agian that had a lot to do with having lived in the culture he portrays and having had similar experiences. Dogma had its moments, I haven't seen Jersey Girl and even I'll admit that J&SBSB sucked.
posted by jonmc at 6:12 PM on January 10, 2006


I loved Clerks. I liked Chasing Amy, but it doesn't age well. Mall Rats was somewhat amusing in parts.

The main problem Kevin Smith has is that he's good at one thing, which is creating characters which are something like real people, except with funnier lines.

Somewhere along the line, he lost the ability to write good dialogue or funny scenes.

Clerks 2 is a last gasp, and I have little doubt it will suck.
posted by cell divide at 6:17 PM on January 10, 2006


I think Clerks II is all about Kevin Smith making a movie he wants to make as well as making a movie for his fans.

So in other words, if you don't like Kevin Smith, big deal. Don't go see the movie.

I'm totally looking forward to Clerks II and love the movies and work of Kevin Smith, even more today than I did when I first saw Clerks years and years ago.

Was at "An Evening w/Kevin Smith" in Toronto last year and it made me respect him even more. After 4 1/2 hours of listening to him talk I could have stayed for 4 more....
posted by punkrockrat at 6:19 PM on January 10, 2006


jonmc writes "well, like I said, taste is ultimately subjective, and I'm not claiming that he's Orson Welles or anything. he's merely a guy who made a couple of films* that resonated deeply with me and a lot of people I know. Maybe if you're not a part of that demographic it dosen't resonate as much."

Actually, I'm pretty sure I'm part of Smith's typical demographic but, like you say, it's subjective. Hell, who am I to judge: my favorite director is John Carpenter. I get tons of funny looks for that.
posted by brundlefly at 6:20 PM on January 10, 2006


Hey, Brundle, I loved Escape from New York and even Escape From LA. I liked The Thing, too, even.
posted by jonmc at 6:27 PM on January 10, 2006


Ah, the yearly Metafilter Kevin Smith thread. He is a truly shitty film director, irrespective of my demographic.
posted by dydecker at 6:29 PM on January 10, 2006


Gator has it.

"You don't understand it" is the last bastion of someone defending a pile of crap.
posted by fire&wings at 6:30 PM on January 10, 2006


I'm curious, this is the first time I've heard Kevin Smith is 'thin skinned', any examples available? From what I've seen on the monologues he's pretty self-critical, in a humorous way.

As far as the 'you don't understand it', that could apply to just about anything so big whoop . . .
posted by mk1gti at 6:43 PM on January 10, 2006


Hey, I have yet to use the "you just don't get it." I'm trying to explain my admiration of the man honestly. I fully accept that YMMV.
posted by jonmc at 6:47 PM on January 10, 2006


One of the many reasons to love ya, jon.
posted by Gator at 6:49 PM on January 10, 2006


if you don't like Kevin Smith, big deal. Don't go see the movie.

I don't like Kevin Smith, I won't go see the movie. This is fine with me.

What isn't fine is how he keeps popping up in my newspapers and TV as some sort of filmic genius. This befuddles me.

I guess I should just be happy for him, but I can't. This is my shame.
posted by fungible at 6:53 PM on January 10, 2006


One aspect of Smith's movies is dialogue...

Yeah, and it's shitty. The dialogue always struck me as incredibly unnatural, as if Kevin Smith were using his films as a vehicle for letting everyone know just how clever he was. It is really insufferable at times.

That being said, I am a fan of Mallrats, but I honestly think that the only thing saving it from mediocrity is Jason Lee's charm.
posted by Tullius at 6:56 PM on January 10, 2006


I think that should have been "vehicles."
posted by Tullius at 6:57 PM on January 10, 2006


Among the Living is a good song.
posted by effwerd at 6:59 PM on January 10, 2006


I like some Kevin Smith movies, and then others not so much. Clerks was good because it was all scraped together and stuff, and it looks like it, so you make allowances. I think Smith is pretty good at writing dialogue, but holy hell, he can't get his actors to deliver it well. His movies are just littered with actors who don't sound convincing as people with emotions. I don't think it's a good sign that someone who (regardless whether you agree with this ascertation) is known for his dialogue-writing skills has put together a teaser with like 4 lines of dialogue in it.
posted by 23skidoo at 7:00 PM on January 10, 2006


Clerks can still make me laugh (Though the understandably atrocious acting seems to get worse with each viewing), but speaking as a once hardcore Smith fan who is now fairly ambivalent towards his films, I can say that the key to his popularity is his attitude and personality.
The guy comes across as someone you could bullshit with in your basement all weekend; self-deprecating, sharp, and an asshole in the best way.
For the people who hold him in such high regard, supporting his films is the same as the anti-globalist vegan who shops only at the small eco-friendly market that's across the street from the Wal-Mart.
(But the whole cult of Jay & Silent Bob pisses me off - I hated Jason Mewes in Clerks, and that's the best he's ever been.)
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:14 PM on January 10, 2006


Those who like Kevin Smith's films like ice cream. And can at least smirk at Chris Elliott, Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure or Joe vs. the Volcano.

Those who don't are big fans of Brussels sprouts, wouldn't touch ice cream because they're on a low-carb diet, probably the type who would be horrified by a hickey because it would seriously uproot their skin care regiment.

So long as we're making generalizations here. :)
posted by ed at 7:21 PM on January 10, 2006


I think it's very, very important that everybody who doesn't like somebody else's work make a point of expressing it constantly at every opportunity. Ideally the word 'suck', 'balls' or some other reference to the male sexual organs shoudl be included.
Please inform us as to what other things you like or dislike, as well.
Thank you.
posted by signal at 7:21 PM on January 10, 2006


The requisite Penny Arcade comic posting when Kevin Smith and "You don't get it" comes into play.
posted by tittergrrl at 7:23 PM on January 10, 2006


Oh, and may I say, if you look at the Clerks 2 site and the whole "Mooby Funployee" graphic. Funployee. May not be copywrighted, but I wouldn't be surprised if Smith stole that from Mr. Show.

Just have a feelin'. This makes me annoyed.
posted by tittergrrl at 7:26 PM on January 10, 2006


Smith and his hit and miss oevure aside, one of the links on the clerks2 site is a video of Tarantino, R. Rodriguez, and the bearded one discussing the screening of Clerks2 he just showed them.

Watching it - It's like two "cool" kids who sort of tolerate the not so cool one, but don't hesitate to subtly remind him of his place - it's very highschool.

It also reminds me what a douche Tarantino is, lest I ever forget for even a moment.
posted by stenseng at 7:30 PM on January 10, 2006


I wouldn't hate on his films so much if their existence was not constantly shoved in my face on the Internet. Just because geeks like something doesn't make it any good or important or worthy of attention.
posted by dydecker at 7:33 PM on January 10, 2006


More like Terminator 3, am I rite
posted by cellphone at 7:35 PM on January 10, 2006


I mean this post is not even about a movie on release yet, it's like 8 months till it opens. Reality check to Kevin Smith fans: you grossly overestimate the importance of this stuff.
posted by dydecker at 7:39 PM on January 10, 2006


I'm disappointed. I was hoping he'd go through with the proposed re-shoot/re-edit of Jersey Girl a la Firestarter where the little kid has superpowers. BOOooooOOO WOOOoooOOOP!
posted by carsonb at 7:40 PM on January 10, 2006


i'm glad stenseng brought up Tarantino and Rodriguez, in my mind they are probably the best people to compare Smith to in terms of shooting style and fanbase. All three got started making movies on the cheap which went on to get some critical acclaim, though that's really Rodriguez and Smith's true claim to fame.

Their fan base all is pretty rabid about them as well, as are their detractors. It's interesting to me that all three seem to generate more love from fans and hate from haters than other directors. Though i suppose Michael Bay does catch some flack as well.

i like all three for different reasons, though Tarantino can wear thin pretty quick. They all have a distinct style, they all seem to like writing for characters, and most importantly they all really seem to like making movies. when ever i watch a Rodriguez commentary (hey, they are really informative...) i always get the impression that this guy is just as happy as can be, doing what he's doing. Smith seems to be the same way, and i feel that translates into his films.

//derail: i got the same vibe from the kids who made the first Saw film. i watched the movie and thought 'wow, whoever made this was a pretty effed up individual' and when i heard the commentary i was surprised that it was these two goofy Australian kids who had made the movie for next to nothing and who spent most of the commentary making fun of themselves. i like people like that.
posted by quin at 8:04 PM on January 10, 2006


I think quin nailed it pretty nicely, I don't think Kevin Smith fans are down for some pole-gargeling fun, just that they like someone who enjoys making a movie because it was fun and it shows.
Everyone's welcome to agree or disagree and I really don't care one way or the other if you do or don't like his films. Everyone has their own opinion, mine is I enjoy watching a film that has a 'homemade' quality to it rather than a 'billion dollar hollywood extravaganza' that is so bright and shiny and cheap it makes my eyes bleed. Give me a few dick and fart jokes and a laugh and a giggle it's all good.
Another aspect about Kevin's films I like is that one feels invited into the experience, other films just don't have that quality.
posted by mk1gti at 8:26 PM on January 10, 2006


I think quin nailed it pretty nicely, I don't think Kevin Smith fans are down for some pole-gargeling fun, just that they like someone who enjoys making a movie because it was fun and it shows.
Everyone's welcome to agree or disagree and I really don't care one way or the other if you do or don't like his films. Everyone has their own opinion, mine is I enjoy watching a film that has a 'homemade' quality to it rather than a 'billion dollar hollywood extravaganza' that is so bright and shiny and cheap it makes my eyes bleed. Give me a few dick and fart jokes and a laugh and a giggle it's all good.
Another aspect about Kevin's films I like is that one feels invited into the experience, other films just don't have that quality.
posted by mk1gti at 8:26 PM on January 10, 2006


stupid double posting blurgargah . . .
posted by mk1gti at 8:27 PM on January 10, 2006


i can't wait until kevin smith makes a vampire movie, because then he can blame all the sucking on the plot.
posted by Hat Maui at 8:57 PM on January 10, 2006 [1 favorite]


Kevin Smith is proof of my theiry that people will forgive you multiple personal and artistic failings if you make them laugh once in a while.
posted by Astro Zombie at 9:23 PM on January 10, 2006


Theory.
posted by Astro Zombie at 9:24 PM on January 10, 2006


i've always liked kevin smith, but since jay and silent bob strike back his work has been subpar... though i DID like the bongsaber scene.
posted by Doorstop at 9:39 PM on January 10, 2006


Astro, it's more that people will forgive you multiple personal artistic failings if you coddle them mercilessly and bury them in nostalgia. Still, you can't but respect a man who puts in a hard day's work. Smith is one of the few guys out there who's earned every cent. And hey, I liked Chasing Amy, though it was partly for personal reasons.
posted by nixerman at 9:40 PM on January 10, 2006


I enjoy his movies, but I suspect I would enjoy them a lot more without Ben Affleck. His presence in any movie makes me instinctively react as if someone just dropped a big turd into my cheerios.
posted by Meredith at 9:45 PM on January 10, 2006


Fuggit. I'll see it. I probably quote "Mallrats" almost as much as "Raising Arizona" and "Dead Man."

So...uh, suck it, haters?!
posted by black8 at 9:59 PM on January 10, 2006


"You don't understand it" is the last bastion of someone defending a pile of crap.

And saying that is the last bastion of someone who thinks their pile of crap is better than your pile of crap.

How did this thread get so many comments? Those who like Smith and his films I could see posting here, but why do the rest of you bother? Do you seriously believe you'll convert a Smith fan through your impeccable taste?
posted by ?! at 10:33 PM on January 10, 2006


Yes.

Actually, I just like complaining about him. Why do atheists post in religious-themed threads? Same reason, I presume.
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:35 PM on January 10, 2006


I enjoy his movies, but I suspect I would enjoy them a lot more without Ben Affleck. His presence in any movie makes me instinctively react as if someone just dropped a big turd into my cheerios.

I'll second that. And I really like my cheerios.
posted by pkingdesign at 11:34 PM on January 10, 2006


Why all the comments? It's all because Kevin Smith is a fat person.
posted by ed at 11:35 PM on January 10, 2006


Well, Smith tries to impress the public with his impeccable taste, constantly lobbing oh-so-cool (if it were still 1993 and I was still 16) pop culture references at us in every other film mag and 'connoisseur' cable channel. He's hard to avoid, and since we can't get revenge upon him in person (like pantsing him - or maybe by pointing out a big chunk of last night's meal lodged in that shitty little sculpted beard of his) then where else but the internet?
posted by item at 11:37 PM on January 10, 2006


Was there a memo I missed? Threads should be mutual agreement societies? Where's the fun in that? Oh, well. OK, everyone... If you don't like Kevin Smith, stop posting... NOW.
posted by brundlefly at 11:37 PM on January 10, 2006


I grew up within walking distance of the Quik Stop, and Smith is something of a local hero in my town. I used to shop there with my mom when he was an employee, and I remember what a big deal it was when they were filming (and the shock to everybody's parents when it turned out to be so raunchy). In Red Bank there's now a yearly Kevin Smith film festival (Vulgarthon) that brings out all kinds of geekery.

Clerks is a good movie, and its success is well-deserved. His other movies havn't been so lucky. Smith himself, in my very brief encounters with him, seems like an ok guy, if a little bit self important. Jason Mewes, on the other hand, is a legendary train wreck.

My parents kept me up on the local news while Clerks 2 was being filmed. I'm not particularly hopeful for it.
posted by deafmute at 11:38 PM on January 10, 2006


Meh.
posted by Radio7 at 11:39 PM on January 10, 2006


Clerks + Amy == fantastic, Mallrats was pretty good, Jersey Girl was better than the critics said (although Affleck stank) and JASBSB was pretty poor. I'm with saraswati - I was pretty up about this until Affleck's noggin appeared in the trailer. I can't see it doing any more business than his other films and getting him a whole legion of new fans. Smith is, I guess, like that small band that you either love and wish more people would be into or deride as "they're small and unpopular because they're shite".

Glad to see Smith used the version of Among from The Greater Of Two Evils; this whole Anthrax reunion thing sucks huge balls. Among, among, among...
posted by TheDonF at 12:04 AM on January 11, 2006


Kevin Smith should remake the Django films starring Dolph Lundgren.

There. I said it. It's in the open. Have at it.
posted by longbaugh at 1:33 AM on January 11, 2006


I actually liked Kevin Smith movies better before I saw An Evening With Kevin Smith. He came across as being perpetually in awe of his own cleverness and not terrifically intelligent or articulate. Not that I'd ever thought he was a great director, but his movies were sort of low-key charming until I found out how incredibly brilliant and important he thinks they are.

And, yeah, "it's not for you" sucks as a defense of art, whether it's your own or someone else's.
posted by EarBucket at 3:22 AM on January 11, 2006


I'm hungry , anyone fancy a lotus ?
posted by sgt.serenity at 3:25 AM on January 11, 2006


"How far can one man stretch one iota of talent?"

Almost as far as he can stretch a pair of pants.
posted by MarkC at 3:52 AM on January 11, 2006


I couldn't stand Clerks, but I liked the rest of his films (Jersey Girl included), so I'll be interested to see how this turns out...two questions though:

At one point, Jason Lee is in the trailer, with a moustache - does he play Earl from My Name is Earl?

At the end, is that Sam from Lord of the Rings, or just a guy that looks like him?
posted by Orange Goblin at 4:00 AM on January 11, 2006


Those who like Smith and his films I could see posting here, but why do the rest of you bother? Do you seriously believe you'll convert a Smith fan through your impeccable taste?

Why on earth do some people seem to take it so personally whenever someone else says they don't like something that you like? What on earth is wrong with a conversation in which some people say, "This rocks," and other people say, "I don't like it much, I think xyz"?
posted by Gator at 4:18 AM on January 11, 2006


Joss Whedon's 'Buffy-esque' signature repartee seems to have some simularities to the Smith ability to create

cell divide writes "characters which are something like real people, except with funnier lines."

It's all so gen Y. We'll be watching the sodcast on our video bipods via wifi.

Anyway, take a pull on your blunt and sit back and enjoy the ride. It aint American Pie 4 - cAnal Invasion - Dentistry School
posted by asok at 4:25 AM on January 11, 2006


Kevin Smith would love this thread.
posted by Jimbob at 4:41 AM on January 11, 2006


I couldn't stand Clerks, but I liked the rest of his films (Jersey Girl included)

That's funny, I'm the exact opposite. I loved Clerks, saw it multiple times, bought the T-shirt, DVD and action figures. I've been mildly indifferent to every film of his since then. I felt the same way about Slacker, which I loved, and Richard Linklater. Before Sunrise actually made me want to throw things at the screen.

I'm not even supposed to be here today.
posted by Otis at 5:36 AM on January 11, 2006


"Threads should be mutual agreement societies?"

No, of course not. I never even hinted at that.


"What on earth is wrong with a conversation in which some people say, "This rocks," and other people say, "I don't like it much, I think xyz"?

If only that's what this was. The thread above looks like a poo-throwing fesitival.


"Actually, I just like complaining about him. Why do atheists post in religious-themed threads? Same reason, I presume."

Now that is an answer. Thank you. I guess I just didn't see that. I could see arguing which political system would most benefit a society. I could see arguing how best to paint a 1970 Chevelle Malibu to ensure a long lasting finish. I just don't see why you try to insist someone else's faith or taste is inferior to your own.
posted by ?! at 5:59 AM on January 11, 2006


The thread above looks like a poo-throwing fesitival.

Throwing poo at Smith and his oeuvre, maybe. But I simply don't see where anyone said that liking Smith's work means you have inferior taste. Sure, you could infer that, if you wanted to: "If you think Smith's movies suck then you must think I'm stupid for liking them." Why make that inference, though? Hell, even if someone explicitly said, "Kevin Smith fans are morons whose taste is on a par with that of carrion-eaters," which no one has said, why rise to it?

Hell, I'm a Family Guy fan and whenever that subject comes up there are always people ragging on Seth McFarlane and how shitty Family Guy is and how juvenile Family Guy fans must be if they like that crap. I don't take it personally, I don't try to convert people to my vision of Family Guy's brilliance, and I don't say, "You haters don't get it" or "Why do you haters even come in these threads?" If I say anything at all, I say what I like about Family Guy and leave it at that. Why take it personally when someone else hates what you love?
posted by Gator at 6:15 AM on January 11, 2006


I remember reading somewhere a gossip item about Smith trying unsucessfully to pick up a stripper, and he then wrote a sad, pathetic letter to the newspaper/magazine/whatever to try to explain what had happened.

and I just thought, what a loser.
posted by matteo at 6:30 AM on January 11, 2006


I never really noticed how attractive Rosario Dawson is until this trailer.
posted by patgas at 6:57 AM on January 11, 2006


isn't that kind of the point, matteo?

His characters are clueless boneheads at best, I agree but so are most people in their twenties. It's refreshing to see that portrayed. Nice slice of reality pie.
posted by jonmc at 6:57 AM on January 11, 2006


Why take it personally when someone else hates what you love?

I have a theory. Taste in music and films often involves intense identification with the creator or characters. So if somebody says "such and such is a piece of shit," it's sort of a natural leap to assume that the unspoken implication is "and if you are moved/amused/indentify with it, you are a piece of shit, too," even if that's not what was intended.

But to have conversations about music & movies, you have to live with that, I guess.
posted by jonmc at 7:03 AM on January 11, 2006


jonmc, don't forget the awesomeness that is "They Live".
the original Fog terrified the shit out of me, to the point I haven't watched it since. Halloween is still one of the best horror flicks out there, and christ, nobody can deny Big Trouble in Little China is a triumph.
John Carpenter was a great director for a long stretch.
what the hell happened to that talent is a little lost on me.
and I don't think it's related to his composing his own soundtracks/themes.

I look forward to this long-awaited sequel of Smith's. Even if Rosario Dawson stands out a little compared to the original crew. (not criticisizing, just saying)
It could be a swan song, but hey, sometimes the swan song is the best of a career. I think his forte is conversation (and I'd agree, populist voice, too).

I thought the Clerks animated show was pretty great, if irregular in quality from episode to episode.

I skipped Jersey Girl because it looked awful. Everyone I knew who saw it agreed with that opinion. My biggest complaint about Smith is lack of consistency, even within a single movie. Snippets I love, snippets I'm bored with, and scene by scene I seem to parse the movie as if it was a collection of shorts, rather than a comprehensive work.

But that could be his editing, no?
posted by Busithoth at 7:58 AM on January 11, 2006


We need a John Carpenter thread. Assault of Precinct 13 is just beyond awesome.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:36 AM on January 11, 2006


deafmute, yo. I'm from Red Bank.

I'm with the crowd that says Clerks was an inspired work, while just about everything else has been downhill from there. Not terrible, but not masterful. Just mildly amusing, like most SNL skits nowadays.

But Clerks...that defined what it means to be someone of my generation from New Jersey. ....Not the "37" part, mind you, but everything else.
posted by Miko at 8:37 AM on January 11, 2006


Merchandising! Merchandising! Merchandising! Jesus H Christ. Kevin Smith's web sites have less commercial restraint than a Korean Viagra spammer.
posted by StarForce5 at 9:01 AM on January 11, 2006


Mallrats: "That kid is back on the elevator!"

Thats,"That kid is back on the escalator!"

The geek within honors any director who references Star Wars.
posted by Atreides at 9:13 AM on January 11, 2006


Atreides: Ugh! Damn right it's escalator. That was pure brain rot on my part. Good catch.
posted by quin at 9:34 AM on January 11, 2006


At the end, is that Sam from Lord of the Rings, or just a guy that looks like him?

That's Kevin Weisman, best known as Marshall Flinkman from "Alias".
posted by Bluecoat93 at 9:37 AM on January 11, 2006


How in the fuck does this hack continue to get projects greenlit?

Sure, he is an alternative to the utterly unimaginative crapfests that comes out of Hollywood, but, that is akin to "THIS glass of rotten milk is better than THAT one cuz it is geeky."
posted by mrblondemang at 11:10 AM on January 11, 2006


Astro Zombie writes "We need a John Carpenter thread. Assault of Precinct 13 is just beyond awesome."

Amen. My personal favorite is The Thing, though. We just need Carpenter to do something interesting to justify the thread...
posted by brundlefly at 11:41 AM on January 11, 2006


Well, I don't know. There seems to be this genre of films out there that attempt to be the neurotic voice of a generation coming to grips with how silly, stupid, narcisisstic, and petty its members are while they whine about the existential difficulties of life as reasonably affluent urban Americans. At their best, you get films like "Annie Hall," "The Big Chill," and perhaps even "The Breakfast Club." I think the problem is that while it is funny the first time around, saying the same thing in movie after movie gets old after a while. I can't stand sitting through Woody Allen movies where he casts himself as a protagonist for example.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 11:45 AM on January 11, 2006


gator: In my case, I didn't take it personally. This is a thread about movies, not something important like baseball. But the back and forth caused me to question the dynamic. In your example you choose to ignore those who said they didn't like Family Guy. I truly wondered why anyone even bothers to say such things. Astro Zombie's response seemed to sum it up pretty well. Now I know. Thanks for sharing your viewpoint.
posted by ?! at 11:57 AM on January 11, 2006


"How in the fuck does this hack continue to get projects greenlit?"

Because every movie he has made has earned more than it cost to produce. That's the key to success in Hollywood.
posted by Tenuki at 11:57 AM on January 11, 2006


If you haven't already, watch his collection of campus lectures/visits An Evening with Kevin Smith. His humor comes through much better than in most of his movies. It has a great segment about Prince that is worth it alone.
posted by formless at 4:48 PM PST on January 10 [!]


I fifth or sixth that sentiment. His films do not blow my dress up, but in person that dude is funny as shit.
posted by hatchetjack at 12:14 PM on January 11, 2006


i read his blog and i watch his movies.. am i dumb?
posted by suni at 1:12 PM on January 11, 2006


kaemaril writes "I thought Jay & Silent Bob rocked, myself. "

Me too, I can watch it over and over again. Mallrats was weak but I still enjoyed it. I liked Jersey Girl too once there was no fear of J-Lo ruining it. Chasing Amy and Dogma I've got to be in the mood for but Dogma especially is excellent.

mk1gti writes "the guy has recognizable and marketable talent.
"Look at his friggin' wife fer chrisake!"


This is the pic (NSFW) of Jennifer you were looking for.
posted by Mitheral at 1:58 PM on January 11, 2006


tittergrrl: Thanks for reminding me of that Penny Arcade strip, heh. Whenever I read PA, I can't help but imagine Gabe with Dante's voice and Tycho with Randal's, even if it doesn't quite match with their personalities.
posted by JHarris at 2:23 PM on January 11, 2006


mk1gti writes "the guy has recognizable and marketable talent.
"Look at his friggin' wife fer chrisake!"

This is the pic (NSFW) of Jennifer you were looking for.
posted by Mitheral at 1:58 PM PST on January 11 [!]
-------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, I don't care how many times I am required to have hot, wild sex with Kevin Smith's wife, I'll still think the most of him, his movies and Jason Mewes, and even *gulp* Ben Affleck.
I don't care if I am reguired to tie her to the bed and spank her with all manner of sex toys, satisfy her in every possible way known to humankind (sexually), I still love the man and his movies.
posted by mk1gti at 5:25 PM on January 11, 2006


I am the C.L.I.T master.

mrblondemang writes "Sure, he is an alternative to the utterly unimaginative crapfests that comes out of Hollywood, but, that is akin to 'THIS glass of rotten milk is better than THAT one cuz it is geeky.'"

That's what I said, but in coherent.
posted by asok at 2:57 AM on January 12, 2006


There's some truth in this NOT FOR THE CRITICS crap. In fact, speculate that for the majority of people who dislike Smith, it's simply just not their thing.

Did you at one point in high school or college really "get" the movies, only to later lose some interest? Or maybe it just made no sense at all, since the dialogue is so over-the-top and the characters so slapstick. That's the point: most of Kevin Smith's work is written directly to this mindset, and it's pretty damn funny if you live in that world.

It's even marginally funny if you're willing to accept that you're going to get some marginally-scripted, medicorely-directed film with some pretty funny scenes that appeal to your... well, lower social functions. That's cool, I went a few years not branching above that level. Some people live there and don't see any reason why you'd leave.

As a whole, as critical works of art? Not so much. Not even so great as comedy movies that everyone will love. But there's a niche.
posted by mikeh at 2:21 PM on January 12, 2006


True dat. I love Ed Wood films, which also have their niche. But, then, I also recognize that they're crap as do most Ed Wood fans.
posted by Astro Zombie at 3:00 PM on January 12, 2006


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