WASPY is cool!

January 24, 2006 1:10 PM

Mike Jeffries, of Abercrombie and Fitch,(Salon, Premium Pass, Greasemonkey Script) comes across as an eccentric, vain, popularity-infatuated fashion industry genius you probably figured he was. "That's why we hire good-looking people in our stores. Because good-looking people attract other good-looking people, and we want to market to cool, good-looking people. We don't market to anyone other than that." An interview with the writer on Gawker. Think he'll stop at Midwestern frat boys? He's coming for you NYC (Ruehl).
posted by geoff. (111 comments total)

could care less about A&F, but that GM script sure is nice...thank ye kindly
posted by mcstayinskool at 1:16 PM on January 24, 2006

we want to market to cool, good-looking people. We don't market to anyone other than that.

Phew.
posted by jonmc at 1:17 PM on January 24, 2006

The man looks like a bleached-blonde skull. Perhaps this will happen to everyone who shops there. We can only hope.
posted by boo_radley at 1:18 PM on January 24, 2006

Phew.

That was my reaction, too. It looks like we're safe.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:18 PM on January 24, 2006

That was my reaction, too. It looks like we're safe.

Better pop some zits and stop brushing our teeth, just to be sure.
posted by jonmc at 1:20 PM on January 24, 2006

So they can deny someone employment because they aren't pretty enough? Or vain enough?

Sounds like a lovely discrimination lawsuit could be brewing.

And Mike Jeffries looks like a B-movie goon.
posted by fenriq at 1:20 PM on January 24, 2006

Jesus, is he the guy that played Beast?

posted by afx114 at 1:21 PM on January 24, 2006

The last link is broken, Reuhl. Not that there's any content on there, except store locations and good looking people.
posted by geoff. at 1:22 PM on January 24, 2006

"we want to market to cool, good-looking people. We don't market to anyone other than that."

These exact word came out of the mouth of one of the founders of Esprit in the 80's when they were the equivelent of Abercrombie.

Most of you young folks will ask: What's an Esprit?

Now you kids get out of my garden!
posted by grumpyoldman at 1:23 PM on January 24, 2006

That "dude" is creepy.
Fun game, search hotornot.com with the word "abercrombie", your soul will shrivel.
posted by muddylemon at 1:24 PM on January 24, 2006

"parks his Porsche every day at the same angle in the parking lot (keys between the seats, doors unlocked)"

Not after day, I wager.

Their clothes are really crappy and A&F brand hos always look so deliberate and studied, which is why they earn my contempt. Not because they go after a certain demographic...lots of companies do it.
posted by iconomy at 1:27 PM on January 24, 2006

my opinion of A&F was curdled the minute I heard that execreble "Summer Girls," song, lo those many years ago.
posted by jonmc at 1:27 PM on January 24, 2006

Wow, that GM script is a bit unethical. Seems as if you're bypassing their (not-so-draconian) security to get their paid content for free.

If everyone did that, Salon'd be out of business. Is that a Good Thing?

(NB: I've been a Salon Premium subscriber for three years now...)
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 1:27 PM on January 24, 2006

Walking into an A/F store is a strange experience -- has anyone done this recently? I felt like a 19th century naturalist disembarking into a bathysphere full of tight leather chokers with delightful coral beanery. A magical undersea world where everything is "distressed".

I did buy a pair of jeans tho -- which quite literally fell apart at the seams in three months. Color me a fool! I did notice however, that my jaw became more brick-like while wearing said pants.
posted by undule at 1:27 PM on January 24, 2006

That's why we hire good-looking people in our stores. Because good-looking people attract other good-looking people, and we want to market to cool, good-looking people. We don't market to anyone other than that.

Where's Zoolander when we need him? Oh, I think he's trapped in the Coal Mine thread.

AFX, I think it was Mask or possibly Sin City.
posted by Pollomacho at 1:28 PM on January 24, 2006

Holy crap... he looks like a science experiment gone horribly awry!
posted by cusack at 1:29 PM on January 24, 2006

(of course, one could make the rather obvious observation that American Apparel is the A&F of a different demographic, but I'd never be thht foolish)
posted by jonmc at 1:31 PM on January 24, 2006 [1 favorite]

fenriq Doubt it. You can hire attractive people from all ethnicities and sexes. Interesting thing, though, is I see weirdies and uglies working at AF all the time. I didn't realize "hot" was their gimmick, I just thought they were out to give everybody they could one 4 hour shift a week cuz a lot of their customer base is their workers. (discount something marked up 1500% and you only make a 750% revenue? not bad)
posted by GooseOnTheLoose at 1:31 PM on January 24, 2006

I don't know jonmc... there are some pretty obvious differences in their business models... the most obvious being sweatshop labor.
posted by cusack at 1:34 PM on January 24, 2006

what A&F has done to gay male culture is APPALLING...were i single, i would probably turn straight amidst the 20- and 30-somethings trying to look barely legal...

...and the CEO is all geared up in A&F himself...though i don't quite see where the sad-old-dyed-blond-guy-who-says-'dude' and more-face-work-than-joan-rivers crowd fits in to his target market...
posted by troybob at 1:36 PM on January 24, 2006

jonmc, I thought about that for a moment too. But then you could apply that to virtually every fashion company. I think the biggest crime is commodifying cool, or at least selling what is the antithesis of individuality: if you don't wear us you're not cool. With "us" being upper-middle class white protestants. No other fashion company comes off quite as strong as that.
posted by geoff. at 1:36 PM on January 24, 2006

(I know, cusack, and that is admirable, but AA has become as tiresome a look as A&F at this point. my beef is aesthetic, not political. and I'm also just a grumpy old guy. ignore me. and get off my lawn.)
posted by jonmc at 1:36 PM on January 24, 2006

Is A&F clothing still made in sweatshops?
posted by wakko at 1:36 PM on January 24, 2006

undule did you read the article? A&F jeans that practically fall off your body are a feature, not a bug. ;)

Good read, dude is creepy.
posted by like_neon at 1:37 PM on January 24, 2006

Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy plastic surgery and frankly I can't tell if he's had too little or too much.
posted by skallas at 1:37 PM on January 24, 2006

Interesting fact: Abercrombie and Fitch was Hiram Bingham's outfitter when he discovered Machu Picchu in 1911. How times have changed.

Seriously, though, Abercrombie & Fitch does American Casual clothing better than anyone else right now and their Ezra Fitch line of clothing is made from excellent materials. Whine all you want, but there's a reason they're so popular.

As for preferentially hiring people who are good looking, so do films, television, restaurants, and bars.
posted by driveler at 1:42 PM on January 24, 2006

Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy plastic surgery and frankly I can't tell if he's had too little or too much.

Since when did Gary Busey start running clothing companies? They should change the name to Abercrombie & Busey.
posted by spicynuts at 1:42 PM on January 24, 2006 [1 favorite]

afx114 - that's Ron Perlman!
posted by Artw at 1:43 PM on January 24, 2006

"That's why we hire good-looking people in our stores. Because good-looking people attract other good-looking people, and we want to market to cool, good-looking people. We don't market to anyone other than that."

That'll limit his market share considerably.

The man doesn't understand marketing. The whole point of marketing is to make people feel as though they'd be cooler, more attractive, happier etc. if they buy your products.
posted by orange swan at 1:46 PM on January 24, 2006

I can't tell if he's had too little or too much.

Yeah, I never thought of that, maybe he's just really unattractive and coincidentally looks like his plastic surgeon is Charles Dawson.
posted by Pollomacho at 1:47 PM on January 24, 2006

On the subject of a lawsuit, and in the interest of perpetuating unsubstantiated rumors, the sister of my coworker arrived home one day last month to find an approximately $2000 check waiting in her mailbox, as part of a settlement in a class-action lawsuit against A&F. This individual had never had a lawyer or been involved in any such lawsuit, but had merely filled out a questionaire A&F sent to current and former employees that included the question "Did you ever feel like you were being discriminated against due to your appearance?" or something to the affect. My coworker's sister, feeling appropriately snarky responded, "oh yeah, definitely... etc." So, again, this is third degree hearsay and I'm not a lawyer, just descended from them. But if it's coming through the old office rumor mill it must be true.... Anyone else heard of something similar?
posted by jrb223 at 1:51 PM on January 24, 2006

The man doesn't understand marketing. The whole point of marketing is to make people feel as though they'd be cooler, more attractive, happier etc. if they buy your products.

No, he pretty much gets it bang on, and he's got 2 billion in revenue backing him up. When he sells a pair of jeans to a regular kid, regular kid joins the upper echelon of cool kids, joining his target market. .
posted by Keith Talent at 1:53 PM on January 24, 2006

The man doesn't understand marketing. The whole point of marketing is to make people feel as though they'd be cooler, more attractive, happier etc. if they buy your products.

No, he pretty much gets it bang on, and he's got 2 billion in revenue backing him up. When he sells a pair of jeans to a regular kid, regular kid joins the upper echelon of cool kids, joining his target market. .

No, close. Regular kid feels like they are cool and attractive, part of the target market. They may still look like a pimple faced schlub, but hey, they've got the right pants at least! This guy's statements only promote this more. "I only sell to hot people" makes people who buy stuff there think they are hot, even if they clearly are not.
posted by Pollomacho at 1:57 PM on January 24, 2006

$40 Million Paid to Class Members in December 2005 in Abercrombie & Fitch Discrimination Lawsuit Settlement.
posted by ericb at 1:57 PM on January 24, 2006

He appears to be one-step away from transforming into another plastic-surgery-gone-haywaire -- Jocelyn Wildenstein:


posted by ericb at 2:01 PM on January 24, 2006

*haywire*
posted by ericb at 2:01 PM on January 24, 2006

fenriq Doubt it. You can hire attractive people from all ethnicities and sexes....

Don't forget different ages and levels of disability. The problem comes when you start defining attractive as white, young, able bodied and female, you know, like Gap employees.
posted by Pollomacho at 2:03 PM on January 24, 2006

Thanks for that Salon-Greasemonkey script.

It is true that A&F used to be an outdoor hunting-camping sort of retailer, like LL Bean?
posted by fixedgear at 2:03 PM on January 24, 2006

It looks like his real face is hiding underneath a smushy fake face. :(
posted by Optimus Chyme at 2:04 PM on January 24, 2006

No, close. Regular kid feels like they are cool and attractive, part of the target market. They may still look like a pimple faced schlub, but hey, they've got the right pants at least! This guy's statements only promote this more. "I only sell to hot people" makes people who buy stuff there think they are hot, even if they clearly are not.

Yeah, you're right. Re-reading what I wrote I realized my point was kinda lame, you nailed it.

I like how the only determinent to a potenial customers attractiveness is cash.
posted by Keith Talent at 2:04 PM on January 24, 2006

I liked A&F a whole lot better when they sold extremely expensive croquet mallets to the upper crust.
posted by ewagoner at 2:05 PM on January 24, 2006

That'll limit his market share considerably.

The man doesn't understand marketing. The whole point of marketing is to make people feel as though they'd be cooler, more attractive, happier etc. if they buy your products.

I think the man understands far more about marketing than you think, having resurrected a dead brand in the late 80's, one which used to outfit Teddy Roosevelt when he was president, and turned it into one of the most popular clothing lines out there for teens and twentysomethings. The focus on the "cool" kids simply serves to build brand influence in the real world - everyone always wants what the cool kids have, and A&F knows that. Just about every mall-oriented clothing company out there has attempted to rip-off their marketing style in one way or another, from the photography, to the sense of "privilege" they convey, to the music you hear blaring outside of the stores. They wrote the book on marketing clothes to suburban white kids.

Side-story, this Christmas my local Abercrombie and Fitch hired a ripped guy to stand outside their store without a shit on all day, everyday for three weeks leading up to the holiday. I don't often get jealous, but just thinking about the number of chicks one could pick up at that job blows my mind. Just obscene...
posted by SweetJesus at 2:06 PM on January 24, 2006

It is true that A&F used to be an outdoor hunting-camping sort of retailer, like LL Bean?

Yes.

"Abercrombie and Fitch was originally a store that outfitted wealthy businessmen for their outdoor pursuits, and it continued to sell such clothing to this demographic until it was bought by The Limited (which owns Victoria's Secret) in 1988....Abercrombie grew tremendously after establishing themselves as the clothing line of choice for the 'prep' clique in suburban high schools all across America. By 1999, they had 300 stores worldwide.

In 1998, Abercrombie and Fitch became a fully independent public company, separate from The Limited." [source]

My grandfather used to purchase hunting and fishing gear from them.
posted by ericb at 2:06 PM on January 24, 2006

we want to market to cool, good-looking people. We don't market to anyone other than that.
It sounds more like he is saying; we want our employees to moonlight our clothing line. Yes, we are paying them for their modeling services, the less (discount) purchase price on all AF appeal, as an employee.

As, I'm sure their retail employees are encouraged to wear his clothing line while at work.
PS; no cool kid would wear clothes found in most US closets...

What does the "Y" in White Anglo Saxon Protestant stand for?
posted by thomcatspike at 2:06 PM on January 24, 2006

I Harpo Speaks, Harpo tells a story about his gang urgently desiring to play croquet in Manhattan, so they ran out to A&F to buy supplies and then played on the roof of his apartment building.

I've had several circles of friends have that exact urge strike, which is why I carry my croquet set in the trunk of my car.
posted by ewagoner at 2:07 PM on January 24, 2006

I liked A&F a whole lot better when they sold extremely expensive croquet mallets to the upper crust.
posted by ewagoner at 4:05 PM CST on January 24 [!]

I'm pretty sure it's Ralph Lauren you're thinking about.

PS I just wanna say I hate these moonman sunglasses everyone is wearing.
posted by ozomatli at 2:07 PM on January 24, 2006

at that job blows my mind

I think you meant to say 'blow jobs.'
posted by ericb at 2:08 PM on January 24, 2006

As, I'm sure their retail employees are encouraged to wear his clothing line while at work.

Not encouraged, required. I've had more than a few friends who have worked there, and most of them ended up giving their paychecks right back to the store for new clothing.
posted by SweetJesus at 2:09 PM on January 24, 2006

curse you ewagoner!!!!
posted by ozomatli at 2:09 PM on January 24, 2006

Yeah, A&F used to be a high-end outdoors outfitter. I'd be interested to see where/why the shift came when it did.
posted by craven_morhead at 2:10 PM on January 24, 2006

Y = Yuppies? Youths? Yodelers? Yackey-Sax?
posted by ozomatli at 2:10 PM on January 24, 2006

.....White Anglo Saxon Protestant the posts title....
posted by thomcatspike at 2:11 PM on January 24, 2006

""In 1892 Abercrombie & Fitch began under the name David T. Abercrombie Co., a small waterfront shop and factory in downtown New York City owned by David Abercrombie....His clientele consisted mostly of professional hunters, explorers and trappers. And a man named Ezra Fitch. Ezra Fitch was a successful lawyer in Kingston, New York. Restless and thoroughly bored with his life of law, Fitch spent all of his free time trekking the slopes of the Adirondacks and casting flies into the streams of the Catskill. In his search for exceptional outdoor gear, he had come to rely upon David Abercrombie's shop, becoming one of its most devoted customers. He was so devoted, in fact, that in 1900 he had convinced David Abercrombie to let him buy into the business and become a partner. By 1904, the shop (which by now had moved to 314 Broadway) was incorporated and the name was officially changed to Abercrombie & Fitch....Abercrombie & Fitch continued to grow, with stores opening up in Chicago and San Francisco. But by the late '60s the store hit upon hard times and went bankrupt in 1977. " [source]

The "brand" name was bought by the Limited in 1988.
posted by ericb at 2:12 PM on January 24, 2006

Y = Yuppies? Youths? Yodelers? Yackey-Sax?
I'd go for yuck. Since this line of clothing is not sized for my body's shape, medium build.
posted by thomcatspike at 2:14 PM on January 24, 2006

it looks like someone glued john candy's face to val kilmer's body.
posted by stenseng at 2:17 PM on January 24, 2006

I'd go for yuck. Since this line of clothing is not sized for my body's shape, medium build.

Is it made for anybody's body except possibly some curveless, undeveloped 14 year old or an anorexic actress, take, say Marsha Barton for instance?
posted by Pollomacho at 2:19 PM on January 24, 2006

Y = Yuppies? Youths? Yodelers? Yackey-Sax?

WASPy is the adjective form of WASP, which doesn't parse out so well because it's an acronym.

As in, "Those trustfund Abercrombe douchebags are so fucking waspy"...
posted by SweetJesus at 2:20 PM on January 24, 2006

Side-story, this Christmas my local Abercrombie and Fitch hired a ripped guy to stand outside their store without a shit on all day

I guess that mall didn't have a no-shit-no-shoes-no service policy...
posted by dr_dank at 2:21 PM on January 24, 2006

I find the lower-case "y" looks weird, and "Waspy" doesn't convey the acronym sufficiently.
posted by geoff. at 2:25 PM on January 24, 2006

Jesus Fucking Christ! I've been seeing these attractive high-school age girls wearing "Hollister" T-shirts, and I've always been amazed ... "Are they really that proud of Hollister?" LMAO!

on preview: Mischa. ooh la la.
posted by mrgrimm at 2:25 PM on January 24, 2006

what i find most amazing is that the "upper crust" are buying clothes with rips in them. what up with that?

its like the joke from zoolander about homeless chic being the next thing only its not really a joke.

so sad our consumerist society
posted by hpsell at 2:38 PM on January 24, 2006

For fuck's sake, can we outlaw flipflops now?
posted by malaprohibita at 2:38 PM on January 24, 2006

I don't particularly like their clothes (I actually don't mind the look, I just find their stuff a bit too studied, when those types of clothes need to look effortless to really look good) but I do find these types of people like the CEO endlessly fascinating.

Putting aside value judgements, the people that end up driving $2 billion companies that dictate what a good chunk of the population look like often are the nuts and kooks, and I'm always curious about the role that distasteful (on a face-to-face basis) personality traits play in their "success".

Or it's just those washboard abs.....

we want to market to cool, good-looking people. We don't market to anyone other than that.

Phew.

jonmc rockin' the "I got this flannel shirt when Ned's Atomic Dustbin was on the charts" look is driving me into the arms of A&F! (not really, I kid because I love)
posted by jalexei at 2:41 PM on January 24, 2006

They used to have nice stuff until they were bought by the Limited. Now they just sell a bunch of crappy wanna-be stuff, but they sell it with attitude, enough attitude it seems that their customers don't realize how dorky they look in that stuff.
posted by caddis at 2:44 PM on January 24, 2006

>>what i find most amazing is that the "upper crust" are buying clothes with rips in them. what up with that?

I think that's the whole point here. The people he markets to have office jobs and wear predictably business casual clothing. When not at work they dress casual, but what casual clothing does a workaholic have or someone who wears business casual anyway? Maybe some old stuff from college that no longer fits. So Jeffries sells pre-packed youth clothing like:

A shirt thats bleached and messed up like you've been living on the beachfront for the past eight years making your money hustling pool and collecting cans. Suddenly you're an ex-cool guy! Or pants with holes in them so you look like you have serious hobbies and take vacations outside of family safe cruise ships and resorts. Suddenly you're Robert Fisk!

Jeffries is exactly like the people he's trying to sell to. People unable to come to terms with getting old or being uncool.
posted by skallas at 2:51 PM on January 24, 2006

A&F, circa 1950.
posted by grabbingsand at 3:02 PM on January 24, 2006

not "cynical" or "moody" two traits he finds wholly unattractive...

that explains why I never saw any boutiques in France
posted by pwedza at 3:03 PM on January 24, 2006

I just had the startling revelation that... I thought A & F's popularity had imploded and nobody rocked that gear anymore; because i haven't gone to one of those stores in 10 years. Then i realized: wait a second, i still see tons of clueless 16 year olds wearing this stuff. It didn't get uncool, i just got too old to like it. Perhaps the kids should get off MY lawn?
posted by cusack at 3:04 PM on January 24, 2006

I've never shopped at A&F, mainly because I don't see myself as the target demographic. I never realized this meant I was unattractive. I just want casual clothes that are comfortable and, at least in a sense, disposable. Any item of clothing that I own is either work related, or has had multiple beers spilled onto it. They don't sell nice, grown-up clothes, but what they do sell is too expensive to wear while getting drunk and slamming a bicycle down a muddy hill - so they have nothing for me.

On another note, at least where I live, they leave the door of the store open year round. This means that in the summer they have to pump the AC, and in the winter they have to pump the heat. I've always resented the conspicuous waste of resources.
posted by elwoodwiles at 3:23 PM on January 24, 2006

"we want to market
to cool, good-looking
people WRRAAARGHH"
posted by fire&wings at 3:34 PM on January 24, 2006

I am thoroughly amused that he went to Claremont McKenna. I went to another of the group of colleges to which it belongs (harvey mudd).

To most of the rest of people on the campuses, CMC was the domain of republican fratboys - despite the lack of frats. How fitting.
posted by flaterik at 3:38 PM on January 24, 2006

Well, I'm neither cool nor good-looking, so I'll have to forgo the enormous priviledge that is sure to come with buying tacky stuff for exhorbitant prices. I guess there's little left for me now but to pick up the shattered pieces of my life and trudge along as best I can.
posted by clevershark at 3:44 PM on January 24, 2006

Gregor Samsa worked in the fashion industry before transforming into a bug. Nothing has changed since Kafka's day...
posted by solipse at 3:46 PM on January 24, 2006

I went to another of the group of colleges to which it belongs.

Ah, the famous Conference of Colleges and Universities with Odd Double Names. I hear Randolph-Macon and Emory-Henry are rocking the league in basketball this year, too bad Hampton-Sydney is already out of the running!

I never realized this meant I was unattractive.

Well, um, elwood, um, well, we were going to surprise you but we've taken up a collection to get you on Celebrity Make-over!
posted by Pollomacho at 3:49 PM on January 24, 2006

Is it made for anybody's body except possibly some curveless,
The line is frumpy, oversized/relaxed clothing. It hides the curves - the whys for their risque catalog & Abercrombie and Fitch hired a ripped guy to stand outside their store without a shit on all day...I think you meant "shirt" - because w/o shit, he would be modeling "the nude".
posted by thomcatspike at 4:00 PM on January 24, 2006

I've earned more money from class action suits against Abercrombie then I ever earned from actually working there.

And they no longer require that you wear Abercrombie clothing, merely that you have the Abercrombie "look."

Neat trick: Instead of buying a size small or medium A&F polo shirt, go to the kids store and buy a large or extra-large. Exact same shirt, half the price.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 4:04 PM on January 24, 2006

The line is frumpy, oversized/relaxed clothing. It hides the curves

Yes, I can tell by looking at the women in this ad material, so curvy, so much like the average woman over 14 with breasts and hips.
posted by Pollomacho at 4:07 PM on January 24, 2006

remember when they were a camping outfitter? neither do i
posted by chuckforthought.com at 4:11 PM on January 24, 2006

Mike Jeffries is an ugly, flamboyant man. I used to run one of the stores in San Francisco, and boy do I have stories....hit me up via e-mail if you have any specific inquiries.
posted by Mach3avelli at 4:22 PM on January 24, 2006

Did David Foster Wallace write that? It's difficult to believe anyone could possibly be that shallow....
posted by nevercalm at 4:27 PM on January 24, 2006

Did David Foster Wallace write that?

He was so good on Frasier.
posted by Pollomacho at 4:35 PM on January 24, 2006

He looks like a peanut allergy victim who just ate a PayDay. Wow.
posted by sellout at 4:40 PM on January 24, 2006

Dunno. He looks a little like Billy Carter to me.


I still have some A&F clothes. They wear well. Of course that's before I knew these people were assholes.
posted by Smedleyman at 4:48 PM on January 24, 2006 [1 favorite]

I've always been under the impression that they market solely to middle school through college aged kids, not buisness men.
posted by Suparnova at 4:54 PM on January 24, 2006

The target demographic is 14-18 year-old girls, and 16-20 year-old young men. Abercrombie specifically.
posted by Mach3avelli at 5:05 PM on January 24, 2006

buisness men casual is the target market for of stores like Eddie Bauer, Banana Republic and Land's End.
posted by ericb at 5:08 PM on January 24, 2006

businessmen* my bad
posted by Suparnova at 5:22 PM on January 24, 2006

"Are they really that proud of Hollister?"

Especiall since when I hear 'Hollister" the first thing I think of is this.

jonmc rockin' the "I got this flannel shirt when Ned's Atomic Dustbin was on the charts" look

I was flyin' the flannel when Twisted Sister was on the charts, brothaman. ;>
posted by jonmc at 5:35 PM on January 24, 2006

Mike Jeffries is the Willie Wonka of the fashion industry. A quirky perfectionist and control freak, he guards his aspirational brands and his utopian chocolate factory with a highly effective zeal.

I always thought it was "Willy" Wonka.
I'm tired of people expressing the slavish conditions of Wonka's factory as somehow utopian. Wonka is a hermit and curmudgeon in both the movie and the book, and I've always got the impression that neither he nor the oompa loompas are very happy with their lives.
posted by Bistle at 5:35 PM on January 24, 2006 [1 favorite]

Oompa Loompa Doompadee Dah
If you're not greedy you will go far
You will live in happiness too
Like the Oompa
Oompa Loompa doompadee do

So you're saying it's all a front? I don't like the look of it.
posted by Pollomacho at 5:43 PM on January 24, 2006

Mr. Jeffries looks like the retarded brother of Gary Busey.
posted by gyc at 6:10 PM on January 24, 2006

Businessmen do not wear these clothes. Anyone over thirty who wears these clothes is ....
posted by caddis at 6:40 PM on January 24, 2006

I was flyin' the flannel when Twisted Sister was on the charts, brothaman.

Oh I don't doubt it. Honestly, I've been looking for a reason to type "Ned's Atomic Dustbin" (twice in one day!)
posted by jalexei at 6:50 PM on January 24, 2006

A&F lost all my respect about a year ago (not that I had much for the company up to that point to begin with), when I saw a fellow student wearing a pair of ripped, faded jeans, I asked him "Where did you get those pants?" "A&F" he replied. "Did they come ripped and worn out like that?" "Yes" he said, to whch I then asked him how much he paid for them, and he told me $50.00. I then just shook my head an walked away.

I think Jeffries needs to add another four letter word to his vocabulary, "Tool."
posted by slip81 at 7:09 PM on January 24, 2006

The SEC launched an informal investigation on A&F after the particularly well timed sale of about $120 million worth of stock by Jeffries.

Which totally blows, dude.
posted by crumbly at 7:27 PM on January 24, 2006

he paid for them, and he told me $50.00. I then just shook my head an walked away

Only $50.00?

Diesel Jeans
Diesel Zathan Sand Grain Jeans $139.50
Diesel Shazor 88Z Jeans $149.50
Diesel Yarik 764 Jeans $ 239.50

Paper Denim & Cloth
Paper Denim & Cloth Super Low Flare in Vanna $176.00
Paper Denim Cloth Super Low 5 Pocket Flare in Madison $193.00
Paper Denim & Cloth Super Low 5 Flare in Garbo $184.00
Paper Denim & Cloth Super Low 5 Flare in Legacy $259.00
Paper Denim & Cloth Super Low 5 Year in Presley $189.00

Etc., etc., etc. -- Hey, folks, it's just denim!
posted by ericb at 7:29 PM on January 24, 2006

$50 actually seems kinda cheap for pre-ripped designer jeans. I always thought they were more like $100 or even $200. Not that I'd ever wear them, or any pants for that matter.

On preview: ericb beats me to it. And with facts no less. Well done.
posted by Jawn at 7:42 PM on January 24, 2006

Its real easy to mock the culture and the prices, but isn't wearing some sort of costume part of American culture? How many kids right now are dressed a lot like punk/rock musicians? How many of those very same kids are able to play one chord on a guitar? How much do punk/rock star cut jeans go for nowadays? Or anything from the vintage stores?

Arguably, you could say the the rockstars stole the look for an already established counter-culture. Fine, but its not 1973 anymore.

Sure, its funnier when middle-age people get on board with some trend, but its not like we're immune to it or that its unheard of.
posted by skallas at 7:57 PM on January 24, 2006

I agree skallas, but they don't have to be so crass. I know this guy. His clothes are extremely popular is some circles, yet he still gives back to his community in fairly generous ways, and lives a pretty down to earth life. I really don't think he exploits his customers either. Pretty amazing for a guy who became a millionare from his clothing business in his twenties. A&F is just a big gooney facade, but it is possible to build a brand which is hip and real.
posted by caddis at 8:33 PM on January 24, 2006

dropped something

"i"
posted by caddis at 8:34 PM on January 24, 2006

What I can't figure out is why is Marc Ecko wearing an Idaho Vandals shirt? I LIVE in Idaho, and I'M embarrased to be associated with the vandals...
posted by stenseng at 12:16 AM on January 25, 2006

from the Salon story:

Remarkably little is known about Jeffries' personal life. There are few people who claim to know Jeffries well, and those who do wouldn't comment for this story. What is known is that Jeffries has a grown son, lives separately from his wife, and, according to Business Week, has a Herb Ritts photo of a toned male torso hanging over the fireplace in his bedroom.

in plain English: WINKWINKNUDGENUDGE FAGFAGFAGFAGGOTYFAG LOLLERSKATES

and this passes for journalism? now, I'm not crazy about A&F Hitlerjugend ads and ridiculous stores (but then, I'm not their target, and I'll soon be too old (at 36) to be part of even Ruehl's older target. also, I'm a bit too familiar with actual quality in fabric and cut to be impressed by their usually badle-made-in-sweatshops clothes. but still, they're good at what they do -- they've been kinda stealing Ralph Lauren's playbook. also poor Ralph (maybe because he's Jewish, maybe because he's simply not crass enough) has never done anything like A&F gleefully racist hiring practices and let's-make-fun-of-the-chinks T-shirts that made so much money for A&F.

also, Jeffries may be an asshole, but his choice of bedroom decoration is certainly not any of Salon's business. not to mention, if he was a straight guy with boob photos all around his apartment, we wouldn't read that in Salon. hence, fuck Salon.

and Jeffries may be an asshole, but not a bigger asshole than those who happily buy his stuff. and he's laughing all the way to the bank.
posted by matteo at 1:15 AM on January 25, 2006 [1 favorite]

I buy their stuff, matteo. What the fuck else am I supposed to buy... fuckin' Banana Republic? Gap? American Eagle? Some kind of trendy urban wear?

Their shorts pretty much rule. Simple. Plain. Durable, but decays well. Just that tiny little moose. I've been wondering why they never went on sale... now I know they never will.

I've trolled a staggering number of malls and shopping centers across this great land, and I'm not impressed with what I've seen. Where can a 30-something go these days to get plain old clothes without aggregious logos? The classics? It seems like J. Crew got kinda disinterested in guys stuff... So yeah... what are we left with? American Apparel. Urban Outfitters.

... and Abercrombie & Fitch.
posted by ph00dz at 5:53 AM on January 25, 2006

What the fuck else am I supposed to buy

I manage to get along without buying any of the stuff you mentioned.
posted by jonmc at 7:13 AM on January 25, 2006

Where can a 30-something go these days to get plain old clothes without aggregious logos?

JC Penny? Kohl's? Sears? Target? Wal-Mart? Department stores all seem to have their own house brands, and most of those don't have logos plastered all over them.

I would also note that "fuckin'" Banana Republic doesn't slap a logo on their shirts. Get the stuff when it's on sale, and it's often perfectly reasonable in price. Don't worry, nobody will know you're wearing a trendy urban polo shirt.
posted by schoolgirl report at 8:13 AM on January 25, 2006

What the fuck else am I supposed to buy

I also manage to get by and look presentable without shopping at places like A&E and A&F. I buy stuff (usually on sales) at places like Old Navy, Sears, and Target.

Also, I never had any idea how exspensive A&F's stuff was. I guess that means the friend I asked about their jeans either got them with a gift cirtificate or something, or didn't want to admit how much he actually paid.
posted by slip81 at 11:37 AM on January 25, 2006

What the fuck else am I supposed to buy

I manage to get along without buying any of the stuff you mentioned.

Well yeah, but there's this:

I was flyin' the flannel when Twisted Sister was on the charts, brothaman. ;>

I'm thinking we maybe shouldn't be taking your fashion advice, johnmc.
posted by Jawn at 12:14 PM on January 25, 2006

"Yoki Nakamuri was approved for this floor," Peyton says.
"Oh yeah?" I ask. "Approved by who?"
"Approved by, well, moi," Peyton says.
A pause. Glares targeted at Peyton and JD.
"Who the fuck is Moi?" I ask. "I have no fucking idea who this Moi is, baby."

- Glamorama

posted by rush at 1:19 PM on January 25, 2006

Before I had an American Apparel in my neighborhood, I'd stock up on the BR shirts when they'd go on sale. It's hard to see how the Banana/Gap/Old Navy empire is less objectionable than A&F in terms of overall evil, though.

Now, don't get me wrong -- I'm not really a preppie in any sense. Every day it gets cold I rock the Target Hanes hoodie, but I dunno if I'd buy my every day stuff at Target, Sears, Old Navy or Walmart. Their stuff just seems cheaply made...
posted by ph00dz at 2:35 PM on January 25, 2006

No more cheaply made than that abercrombie horseshit...

newsflash guy - those FADED GLORY walmart jeans? They're probably made in the same factory in Saipan or Maylasia as your beloved Ubercrappy & Felch.

Tell you what though - for the cost of most designer clothing, you could likely have a talented local tailor or seamstress MAKE you the clothes, out of much better material, at much higher quality.
posted by stenseng at 5:58 PM on January 25, 2006 [1 favorite]

Ummm... yeah. Presumably, that's what you do, right?

If it were up to me, of 'course I'd find someone locally to make me my clothes. There are actually a growing number of shops in the Phoenix area that do offer local, custom-made stuff. But almost all of that is aimed at either high end consumers or women.(Usually both.) If anyone knows of a person/place that'll custom make classic looking casual clothes for a reasonable price here in the valley, drop me a line.

I know where you can a sweet purse made for a reasonable price here in town...

I'm sure you're right about the cost of production ultimately being the same for all this stuff, but in terms of quality, the stuff you get at Walmart ain't the same stuff you find at other places. (Not that A&F is the leading light of quality craftsmanship, but Walmart is pretty much the bottom of the barrel in terms of fabrics, style, and comfort.)

'Sides, aren't we all supposed to hate Walmart? (Remember how they're destroying America?)

Anyway, I guess I don't get all this hostility towards what is ultimately just another chain store in a largely undifferentiated sea of chain stores. The guy who runs the place is kind of a nut, but one doesn't have to look very far for other examples of that in the business world.
posted by ph00dz at 6:54 PM on January 25, 2006