Comments on: The Little Buddha of Bara

The Little Buddha of Bara

adamvasco — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:07:01 -0800

A meditating teenage boy in south-central Nepal First mentioned by the BBC at the beginning of December; Ram Bahadur Bamjan is drawing the attention of scientists after attracting huge crowds in the past eight months and earning himself the name Buddha-reincarnate. No food, no water just snakebite. Is this: - holy or hoax?

By: I Love Tacos

I Love Tacos — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:10:48 -0800

hoax.

By: zeoslap

zeoslap — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:19:00 -0800

hoax

By: poppo

poppo — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:19:07 -0800

If that was not remarkable enough, on January 19, he spontaneously combusted, burning off the clothes he has worn for nine months but leaving no scars. Lest there be doubters, his followers caught that combustion on video and plan to present the footage, seen by The Age, at a news conference in Kathmandu, soon. Put up or shut up

By: poppo

poppo — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:19:31 -0800

oh, and in the tradition set forth above: hoax

By: unreason

unreason — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:20:36 -0800

xoah. (I just wanted to be contrarian)

By: unreason

unreason — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:20:59 -0800

Oops, I meant xaoh.

By: zeoslap

zeoslap — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:21:34 -0800

"At the site, a series of fenced alleys loop through the forest, directing pilgrims in a one-way stream past the open front of the peepal tree" - while bypassing the McDonalds located behind the tree.

By: mr_crash_davis

mr_crash_davis — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:21:54 -0800

Wait a minute, a religious hoax? That never happens.

By: digaman

digaman — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:29:51 -0800

The path of the historical Buddha was not starvation or other forms of asceticism. Key to the central story of Buddhism is Shakyamuni's acceptance of an offering of buttermilk (sometimes translated as yogurt) from a shepherd, contrary to the self-mortification practices popular at the time. Go ahead, Ram Bahadur Bamjan -- have a nice cup of tea.

By: cog_nate

cog_nate — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:37:35 -0800

Mmmm, snakebite.

By: cog_nate

cog_nate — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:39:33 -0800

Oh, and hoax.

By: Uther Bentrazor

Uther Bentrazor — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:39:48 -0800

However, Thing, who claims that the committee has not given a single penny to the Maoists, says both the security forces and the Maoists have been asked to accept the meditation area as a zone of peace. "Or else..." Thing continued "It's clobberin' time."

By: mecran01

mecran01 — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:39:51 -0800

Chuck Norris already did this.

By: mkultra

mkultra — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:39:53 -0800

I'm doubtful of spontaneous combustion, but why does this need to be a hoax? Being able to self-regulate body temperature in small amounts is an achievable practice. I'd be curious to see scientific documentation of the length of his fast, but the human mind is capable of pushing the body to crazy limits.

By: HTuttle

HTuttle — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:40:02 -0800

"I can think and I can fast"

By: If I Had An Anus

If I Had An Anus — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:41:25 -0800

Holy. (hey, if the naysayers don't have to back up their opinion, neither do I.) The path of the historical Buddha was not starvation or other forms of asceticism. Sure it was, digaman, he just eventually went beyond it to develop the Middle Way. Still, many in the Sangha who understood the dharma rationally could never be enlightened because they'd never mastered the discipline of yoga.

By: antifuse

antifuse — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:43:15 -0800

Yes, his followers, who of course are completely objective, have video of him spontaneously combusting. Oh, and you can't get any closer than 30m?? How do we even know that it's actually a living person, and not a dummy? I mean, if you're in the middle of a dark forest, from 30m away it's going to be hard to tell a slumped-over human from a slumped-over manequin. And the article totally contradicts itself: many have stayed overnight and not seen him eat, yet the only people who guard him at night, when "the forest is very dark" are his supporters, who, incidentally, are making a killing on "donations". Hoax hoax hoax hoax.

By: ObscureReferenceMan

ObscureReferenceMan — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:44:01 -0800

I call shenanigans! Read about this a while ago. Apparently, the boy's "handlers" will not allow people to keep an eye on him. (Links courtesy of the JREF Forum.)

By: pmbuko

pmbuko — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:47:36 -0800

holy hoax, batman!

By: insomnus

insomnus — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:50:31 -0800

Both.

By: digaman

digaman — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:51:16 -0800

An interesting point, anus.

By: C.Batt

C.Batt — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:51:31 -0800

Superstition, will it ever end?

By: Optimus Chyme

Optimus Chyme — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:58:12 -0800

I'm doubtful of spontaneous combustion, but why does this need to be a hoax? Animals need food and water to live.

By: kimdog

kimdog — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:05:18 -0800

A good friend of mine has been living in India for the last four years, and was in Nepal during December. She actually went to see the Buddha Boy and documented her journey here, here and here. Evidently the process of getting there was much more interesting than the Buddha Boy himself. If you have any interest in India, the rest of her blog is well worth perusing. It a funny, thoughtful, and insightful view of India through Western eyes.

By: three blind mice

three blind mice — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:08:12 -0800

Has his image appeared on a piece of toast yet?

By: Ynoxas

Ynoxas — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:10:40 -0800

I'm doubtful of spontaneous combustion, but why does this need to be a hoax? Animals need food and water to live. posted by Optimus Chyme at 9:58 AM CST on February 10 [!] Please repeat this 10 times every time you begin to feel the "but what if it's real?" pangs again.

By: digaman

digaman — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:14:01 -0800

"Vastness, nothing holy" -- Bodhidharma

By: Mr_Zero

Mr_Zero — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:16:32 -0800

I will be funny when someone gets a picture of him eating a chili dog and sucking down a coke.

By: qvantamon

qvantamon — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:17:34 -0800

The kid is obviously an instrument of the devil to test these buddhists/hinduists' faiths in lord Jesus. See, he courts maoist commies, he is obviously evil. Not to say anything about his gay hairstyle.

By: arcticwoman

arcticwoman — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:21:23 -0800

By: If I Had An Anus

If I Had An Anus — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:33:17 -0800

Animals need food and water to live. Usually. whether or not it is absolutely factually true is (for me) less important than how people act in consequent. Exactly.

By: dgaicun

dgaicun — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:35:27 -0800

Holy shit, what a hoax.

By: antifuse

antifuse — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:36:59 -0800

Usually Ok, let's rephrase then. HUMAN BEINGS need food and water to live.

By: Optimus Chyme

Optimus Chyme — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:43:14 -0800

Maybe I'm the only one, but I really dont think it matters if it is real or a hoax. The Thomas Theorum states that what we believe to be true is true in its consequences, so whether or not it is absolutely factually true is (for me) less important than how people act in consequent. posted by arcticwoman 14 minutes ago Okay, as a result of this obvious hoax, a lot of people are consequently wasting their time. Hooray. What I'd really like to see is people who claim they can survive without food or water locked up in a cell and supervised for a couple months. If you survive, here's a shitload of money. If you die: oh well. Let's hose out the room and toss in the next breatharian. No one has ever ever ever done this under proper supervision. Why? Because it's fucking bullshit. If you believe it is possible for a human to survive without water for an extended period of time, you are stupid.

By: sonofsamiam

sonofsamiam — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:43:48 -0800

If he emerges from his meditation with clearly useful and wise teachings, or if he starts asking for money, then you'll know which, duh.

By: unreason

unreason — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:44:05 -0800

whether or not it is absolutely factually true is (for me) less important than how people act in consequent. No it isn't. If this isn't "absolutely factually true", then it is a con, and these people are being lied to and deceived. If it is true, then it's something astonishing. Either way, it is important to know the truth.

By: antifuse

antifuse — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:53:21 -0800

sonofsamiam: If he emerges from his meditation with clearly useful and wise teachings, or if he starts asking for money, then you'll know which, duh. All those "donation" boxes set up around our little messiah seem to indicate the latter.

By: If I Had An Anus

If I Had An Anus — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:57:25 -0800

If you believe it is possible for a human to survive without water for an extended period of time, you are stupid. And if you can't see the beauty of thousands of people believing in such a wonder, of pilgrims making an "impossible" trek (see kimdog's links) just to be near something beyond comphrehension, then you have no soul which, I'm sure, matters not to the non-religious.

By: twistedonion

twistedonion — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:59:06 -0800

And if you can't see the beauty of thousands of people believing in such a wonder All I see is a beautiful scam. No, I don't have a soul.

By: antifuse

antifuse — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:01:44 -0800

A plus side of this hoax is that now "Little Buddha" by Toad the Wet Sprocket stuck in my head, and any time I get a TTWS song stuck in my head is a good time, as far as I'm concerned. Time to hunt down my copy of Coil, methinks.

By: three blind mice

three blind mice — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:05:04 -0800

And if you can't see the beauty of thousands of people believing in such a wonder I can see the gullibility of thousands of people who think Jesus walked on water - what's so beautiful about people believing in something else that cannot be true?

By: elendil71

elendil71 — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:06:08 -0800

Complete hoax - although a fascinating one. Although some ascetics, as noted above, can do some pretty amazing things. So-called Left Hand Tantric adepts as an example. I couldnt find a good link to some of the really extreme stuff, but there are several decent layman books about Tantra (not the silly Sex-Tantra nonsense) for those who are interested (scroll down to bottom of the linked page for just a small example).

By: Optimus Chyme

Optimus Chyme — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:10:26 -0800

And if you can't see the beauty of thousands of people believing in such a wonder Lies are rarely beautiful. This is no exception. just to be near something beyond comphrehension This isn't "beyond comprehension." It's a textbook breatharian scam, debunked dozens of times already. Did you have the same wonder and awe for Jim Bakker? then you have no soul Neither do you. I'm just not deluded about it.

By: longbaugh

longbaugh — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:32:17 -0800

If he was in England he'd be hanging in a see-through box drinking nutrituous fluids whilst the population of London hurled abuse and big macs at him. Ah, western society thou art fickle.

By: If I Had An Anus

If I Had An Anus — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:34:43 -0800

So, just so I understand you guys, you think this a scam pure and simple, entirely some scheme the boy's family or village or whoever dreamed up for the express purpose of making money?

By: kindall

kindall — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:37:57 -0800

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

By: sonofsamiam

sonofsamiam — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:38:51 -0800

A Hunger Artist

By: SteveInMaine

SteveInMaine — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:39:17 -0800

Superstition, will it ever end? Knock wood.

By: Optimus Chyme

Optimus Chyme — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:49:15 -0800

So, just so I understand you guys, you think this a scam pure and simple, entirely some scheme the boy's family or village or whoever dreamed up for the express purpose of making money? posted by If I Had An Anus at 9:34 AM PST on February 10 Yes, but you can add ", fame, and power" to that last bit. The kid and his handlers all know that he eats and drinks.

By: Dillenger69

Dillenger69 — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:55:54 -0800

I was just wondering about this kid yesterday. It's nice to see that he's still at it, creating hope for thousands . I think there's got to be a trick to it, but, does it really matter? I'd rather see Buddhism thrive than a more violent religion. You never see throngs of Buddhists burning down an embassy and killing people because someone half a world away drew a cartoon.

By: elendil71

elendil71 — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:59:38 -0800

So, just so I understand you guys, you think this a scam pure and simple, entirely some scheme the boy's family or village or whoever dreamed up for the express purpose of making money? Well, I rather suspect the boy really is an ascetic, and I also rather suspect a mixture of religious fervor and outright larceny from his "handlers". I agreed with "hoax" only in regards to the fantastic claims, not suggesting that the entire spectacle was a complete fabrication. Having traveled a bit in the region, such things are not unusual and are not incompatible with their cultural and social beliefs.

By: sonofsamiam

sonofsamiam — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:12:03 -0800

I'd rather see Buddhism thrive than a more violent religion. You never see throngs of Buddhists burning down an embassy and killing people because someone half a world away drew a cartoon. Maybe not that specifically, but you need to look into Buddhist history. Plenty of beheadings and cutting of noses and ears and such, and owning of slaves back in the day. There is no major religion that does not deviate wildly from its sacred teachings.

By: Blue Stone

Blue Stone — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:21:01 -0800

A religious scam? In India? I'm taking bets on what type of biscuits he's been nibbling. 10-1 Twix 5-2 Gypsy Creams 13-7 Bourbons I wonder which cunt is actually pulling the strings in this operation to scam all these terribly poor and innocent people out of what little money they have? /wrath

By: Blue Stone

Blue Stone — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:30:32 -0800

"It's nice to see that he's still at it, creating hope for thousands." HOPE??!?!?!?!?!?!?!? I vote that the most stupid thing I've ever read anywhere on the internet. Ever. Congratulations. Have you heard of the "Hope For A New World" bridge? It's just come up for sale, and I know a guy, who knows a guy who can get you a real sweet deal, my friend ...

By: If I Had An Anus

If I Had An Anus — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:39:11 -0800

Even stupider than saying Nepal is in India?

By: BrodieShadeTree

BrodieShadeTree — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:39:53 -0800

hoax. probably a twin or something as such . Nepal's answer to David Blaine.

By: Optimus Chyme

Optimus Chyme — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:46:18 -0800

I was just wondering about this kid yesterday. It's nice to see that he's still at it, creating hope for thousands. How is this creating hope? And what good is false hope? I think there's got to be a trick to it, but, does it really matter? Yes. Unless you like giving money to con men just for fun. I'd rather see Buddhism thrive than a more violent religion. Non-violence makes fraud okey-dokey! Sometimes I think you people want to be fooled, like your lives won't be complete unless your eyes are covered and your wallet snatched.

By: unreason

unreason — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:52:48 -0800

then you have no soul which, I'm sure, matters not to the non-religious. posted by If I Had An Anus at 11:57 AM EST on February 10 [!] I am religious, and I believe in the soul, and I still don't see the beauty in this. It's only beautiful if they are worshipping something true. If it is not true, then it isn't wonderful, just a sad fraud.

By: mrmojoflying

mrmojoflying — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 11:00:29 -0800

Drink water or not, if the boy is vast he will know the actions of his relatives and break his meditation to intervene. He will broker no profit. If the boy was Buddha, he would never have caused this greed to manifest in the first place.

By: Sparx

Sparx — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 11:31:28 -0800

To paraphrase: And if you can't see the beauty of thousands of people believing in such a lie, of pilgrims making an "impossible" trek (see kimdog's links) just to be near a lie, then you have no soul which, I'm sure, matters not to the truthful.

By: Blue Stone

Blue Stone — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 11:39:46 -0800

"Even stupider than saying Nepal is in India?" Yes.

By: moonbird

moonbird — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 12:49:08 -0800

It is what it is. If it is meaningful for some, let it be.

By: Optimus Chyme

Optimus Chyme — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 12:55:37 -0800

It is what it is. If it is meaningful for some, let it be. posted by moonbird at 12:49 PM PST on February 10 Do you feel the same way about John "I talk to the dead if you give me money" Edward? How about Sylvia "I can predict the future if you give me money" Browne? How about "Jim "Give me money and you will get an express pass into Heaven" Bakker? Uri "I can bend spoons when no one is looking; if you give me money I'll teach you how" Geller? Is there any lie in the name of religion or spirituality you will condemn, or are all such lies moral? Do you care that they prey on the uneducated and the poor, the hopeless? What other evils do you overlook? Disgusting.

By: zonkout

zonkout — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 13:28:00 -0800

"He, however, looks thinner." True. I went to high school with this kid and he used to be kinda chubby. Glad he's shaped up.

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 13:53:46 -0800

"They answered (Jesus), "We are Abraham's descendants[a] and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?" " Yeah. It always starts like that. I never understood idolatry. Postive or negative. Ok. Maybe it's all true and he's a Buddha. So? The best reason to let people be on this is because if you do try to free them they will try to stone you - but they'll get you one way or the other - then go on and on about how great you were and kill anyone who thinks otherwise. Do it from a secular position and you're not a believer anyway so who cares? (Plus then the killing and stoning etc.) We've seen this pattern reiterated thousands of times. They should really rent "Life of Brian." And aren't Sidhes something to be avoided anyway? Maybe the kid can levitate too. Think that will help enlighten anyone? Want to see something really impressive? Howabout a 5 billion year old gigantic ball of 5 million degree hydrostaticly balanced plasma with a mass of about 2*1030 kg delivering about 1000 watts per square meter to the earth and responsible for all life on it. I mean if we're looking for things to be amazed by, y'know, the sun

By: If I Had An Anus

If I Had An Anus — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 14:03:28 -0800

Yeah the sun is pretty hot, but my lady is almost full.

By: sonofsamiam

sonofsamiam — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 14:05:27 -0800

I do like the moon.

By: moonbird

moonbird — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 14:19:22 -0800

Do you feel the same way about John "I talk to the dead if you give me money" Edward? No. How about Sylvia "I can predict the future if you give me money" Browne? No. How about "Jim "Give me money and you will get an express pass into Heaven" Bakker? No. Uri "I can bend spoons when no one is looking; if you give me money I'll teach you how" Geller? No. Is there any lie in the name of religion or spirituality you will condemn, or are all such lies moral? Yes. Do you care that they prey on the uneducated and the poor, the hopeless? Yes. What other evils do you overlook? Probably the same ones you do by categorically refuting facets of other people's beliefs and customs. No one is immune to overlooking evil in pursuit of their own agendas... I try to overlook one less evil every day. How are you doing with that? Disgusting. Yes, it really is disgusting when people act as if they've got the truth on everything, huh?

By: Optimus Chyme

Optimus Chyme — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 14:59:57 -0800

No (x4) What's the difference? Why does this kid get a free pass every though he's as much of a charlatan as those I posted? Probably the same ones you do by categorically refuting facets of other people's beliefs and customs. No one is immune to overlooking evil in pursuit of their own agendas... I am only interested in the truth. If that makes you or any scam artists uncomfortable, too bad. I try to overlook one less evil every day. How are you doing with that? Seems to me that you overlooked a pretty hideous evil today, all to support some mushbrained claptrap like "if it is meaningful for some, let it be." I'm sure that's real nice printed on the unicorn-shaped, patchouli-scented air freshener hanging from the rear-view of your Geo, but it's a pretty shitty rationale to excuse fraud. Yes, it really is disgusting when people act as if they've got the truth on everything, huh? Far less disgusting than the moral relativist position of "well, this fraud isn't hurting anyone except for the poor and hopeless, but there's a slim chance that someone may glean some false hope from it, so let it be."

By: moonbird

moonbird — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 15:11:52 -0800

It sure is fun to put words in someone's mouth, huh? I'd love to have an intelligent conversation about this with you over a Guinness, but this obviously isn't the place. Your vitriol for my position is really baseless, since I'm only typing maybe 5% of my thoughts in the comment box. You don't know me, don't know what I've studied- nor I you. All I ask is that you not come at me with barb-filled language and just try to be civil. But, trying to have this conversation won't happen here, so happy trails for now.

By: beth

beth — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 15:17:30 -0800

I'm a skeptic but I feel I must point out there is a way for the boy to live without eating: they could be sneaking him IVs. what's so beautiful about people believing in something else that cannot be true? Because once you get them to accept one thing that cannot be true, you have proven yourself able to defeat their internal bullshit detectors, and you can then program them with whatever horseshit you like. Profit! This is how much religion works. As a bonus, make sure you spread the idea that believing in things without evidence is by definition virtuous, it really helps! Clearly the boy is in danger and he must be given the Gitmo treatment for those who refuse to eat. (Sorry, that's horrible, I just can't believe no one else said it yet....)

By: Bugbread

Bugbread — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 18:06:18 -0800

Dillenger69: "It's nice to see that he's still at it, creating hope for thousands." Blue Stone: I vote that the most stupid thing I've ever read anywhere on the internet. Ever. Congratulations. If I Had An Anus: Even stupider than saying Nepal is in India? No. Saying that he's creating hope for thousands is just about equal in stupidity to saying that Nepal is in India.

By: shoepal

shoepal — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 19:22:24 -0800

By: hoborg

hoborg — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 20:01:23 -0800

I read through that entire post and no one said if he was a virgin or not. What kind of religion is this??

By: If I Had An Anus

If I Had An Anus — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 20:04:28 -0800

Security sources say a large portion of the money and other offerings made at the meditation site and the amount collected from selling Bomjon's pictures, CDs and biography goes to the Maoists. "We have received information that 75 percent of this income reaches Maoist hands," claimed a security official on the condition of anonymity Where, bugbread, does Optimus Chyme's ranting fit into the scale of stupidity? Consider that the government believes 75% of the donations —generated, mind you, by the latest in an "evil" line of religious hucksters peddling snake oil to the poor— are being funneled to Maoist insurgents? But why are we even talking about who is stupidest? I'm a little surprised at the intolerence and anger of this discussion. Just a little.

By: Bugbread

Bugbread — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 21:13:06 -0800

Where, bugbread, does Optimus Chyme's ranting fit into the scale of stupidity? Pretty low, it seems.

By: Bugbread

Bugbread — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 21:42:48 -0800

I'm a little surprised at the intolerence and anger of this discussion. Ok, I can understand your perspective (though I don't agree with it, I do understand it). Perhaps it would help to try to give you an insight on our position: From our perspective (not that anyone elected me spokesman, so I'm somewhat guessing), this kid (and the folks who work with him) are doing the same thing as Sylvia "I can predict the future if you give me money" Browne. And, from our perspective, Sylvia Browne is doing a bad thing by taking other people's money based on a lie. True, people are giving the money of their own accord. She is not stealing it from them. But she is lying to them in order that they will give her their money, and some of the people doing this have little money to start with. This kid and his handlers are taking money from folks with even less money, based on the same lying. So, from our perspective, this is a con game, and, unsurprisingly, we consider the con to be a bad thing. Lying to people to get their money is not a good thing. You may not agree, but I hope that you can at least see the perspective we're coming from, and not be too surprised at it.

By: If I Had An Anus

If I Had An Anus — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 22:27:45 -0800

That perspective has been been made pretty clear. It has been accompanied by repeated insults and claims of absolute truth; that is what I am surprised by. As of its publication, the BBC link says $7000 was deposited in the bank (plus at site donations) from tens of thousands of pilgrims. How much do you think Nepal spends at cricket matches every year? The money isn't the only thing this phenomena is about. That's all I've been trying to say. But the trolls won't even grant that point. The pilgrims are not stupid. Their "ignorance" relative to the ignorance of science regarding the big questions is not that large, meaning the truth known by both camps is infinitesimally small. My camp just isn't deluded about that.

By: Zendogg

Zendogg — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 22:40:21 -0800

I think it's kinda funny (and by funny, I mean misplaced) to rant about the poor people being conned by kooky religious superstition. Not that religous con games should be supported. Saying that this kind of thing is okay because it gives hope to thousands of people is sort of the (initial) Oprah defense . . ."it may not be true, but it resonates with some vague principal of truth, uh, somewhere, like that people on drugs sometimes redeem themselves, or that it might be nice if we all sat under a tree for awhile and chilled out (which it would)." Still, I wonder if there are any Western superstitious beliefs that might play a much greater role in maintaining vast poverty in the third world? Also, I get a bit creeped out when the Atheists sound like Pat Robertson played backwards. Anyone who doesn't believe in god with THAT MUCH FERVOR is just espousing a reactionary zealotry of a different kind. In both cases, it seems to be some kind of discomfort with uncertainty and mystery that underlies the creased furrows of the brow. (Although, granted, an Atheist zealot is much less likely to tie you to a pole and roast you over an open flame. You might get bruised by a flung copy of Skeptic magazine or something, I guess.

By: Zendogg

Zendogg — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 22:43:46 -0800

)

By: Bugbread

Bugbread — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 22:49:18 -0800

Essentially, you believe that these things are possible. Folks with a strong scientific tilt believe these things are impossible. From your perspective, there is much that is not known about how humans can survive without nourishment, and scientists are deluded for not knowing that. From their perspective, there is much that is known on the limits of human survival without nourishment, and you are deluded by believing that little is known about said limits. Depending on the reality of the situation, both parties can equally be said to be "deluded", just about different things. A scientist would say that, given two opposite possibilities, either of which can be wrong, we have to look at evidence in order to determine which one is right and which is wrong. All evidence I've ever been exposed to, for my entire life, indicates that humans need nourishment. No convincing evidence has been provided to me that they don't. The only counterevidence that gets offered is "there's stuff we don't know", and "listen to this word of mouth". So, yeah, unsurprisingly, I'm going to side with the absoluteness of humans needing nourishment, because if I switched my standards to "well, hey, anything could happen, because we're pretty ignorant about reality", then I'd be forced to believe the possibility of silly stuff like my dad actually being a magic dragon made of twinkies sent by Cthulhu to make as many lane changes as possible in order to avoid the Sun turning into a stapler. That sounds incredibly stupid, but, for the reasons given above, so does Monsieur Zero Calorie. If I claimed, in earnest, to be the magic twinkie dragon above, I would be very unsurprised if my claim was met with insults, snarks, and claims that I am absolutely wrong. Hence I find it hard to understand that you find those same reactions about something people consider equally silly (be it right or wrong) as something surprising.

By: adamvasco

adamvasco — Sun, 05 Mar 2006 10:42:44 -0800

update pdf file - story starts page 11