Comments on: Just One Victory

Just One Victory

tizzie — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 11:20:10 -0800

A Blinding Flash of the Obvious "The city is too beautiful of a city to be known around the world as the capital of exclusion and intolerance." He was right. Now, a 22-minute film documents the successful fight to repeal an anti-gay ordinance in Cincinnati last year. The campaign was successful because it was honest, and because it included people of faith.

By: wakko

wakko — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:07:03 -0800

In about 30 years, we'll all look back at this anti-gay legislation crap and reminisce about how ignorant, bigoted, and intolerant people were. Just like we do now about Jim Crow laws. It really is no different. Stories like this are evidence that the tide is turning, no matter what the "Christian" right has to say about it. I just wonder who we'll be discriminating against in 30 years. I hope it's redheads, because I fucking can't stand Carrot Top.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:23:47 -0800

Hey, my mom's a redhead, you anti-bricktopper! The thing about homophobia is that whenever I hear someone going on about gay people, I just wanna say 'Why the fuck do you even care?' But I think we're at a point in gay history roughly analogous to the period in the early sixties when the civil rights movement picked up serious momentum. More and more heterosexuals have had at least casual social interaction with queerfolk and among younger people especially, it's starting to be taken for granted and draw a 'yeah, so what?' rather than shock or titillation. At least I hope so.

By: borkingchikapa

borkingchikapa — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:24:01 -0800

Probably midgets, wakko. I mean, yeah, I find them funny too, but how is the way they're portrayed in things like The Man Show, Jackass and other vapid cultural phenomena any different from, say, minstrel shows?

By: HTuttle

HTuttle — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:36:38 -0800

'people of faith', 'people of color' I hate those exclusionary bigotted phrases. Use them around me and be a People of BootUpAss.

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:38:59 -0800

As the author of a popular minstrel show, I resemble your remarks, borkingchikapa.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:52:56 -0800

'people of faith', 'people of color' I hate those exclusionary bigotted phrases. HTuttle, there's no doubt that attempts to modify our language can result in awkward, and even a little precious, turns of phrase. But, you know, it's at least an effort.

By: smackfu

smackfu — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:00:18 -0800

To be honest, the only association I have with Cincinnati is Pete Rose. Note "exclusion and intolerance".

By: Spatch

Spatch — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:20:14 -0800

Don't forget Marge Schott, smackfu.

By: Thorzdad

Thorzdad — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:40:36 -0800

But I think we're at a point in gay history roughly analogous to the period in the early sixties when the civil rights movement picked up serious momentum. I sincerely hope you're right about this. Unfortunately, one of the prime driving forces in the success of the civil rights movement was the involvement of the black clergy. This time around, it appears that the clergy seems dead set against the rights of the minority. Sadly, this seems to be especially true among the black clergy. In fact, they seem to bristle with outright indignation whenever anyone tries to draw a parallel between the civil rights movement of the 50's and 60's and today's gay rights movement. One would think that those who had once fought for their own rights would eagerly embrace another group's fight for equality. Sadly, this does not seem to be the case.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:50:11 -0800

In fact, they seem to bristle with outright indignation whenever anyone tries to draw a parallel between the civil rights movement of the 50's and 60's and today's gay rights movement. Well, like I've often said, there's no group that's immune to posessing bigotry, and sadly, groups that are or were themselves victims of bigotry often need someone of their own to hate. Witness poor whites in the south. And yeah, the lack of involvent from liberal clergy is disheartening. But I think the increased cultural visibility of queerfolk is a big part of it this time. The boomer's attitude towards gays was a wary tolernace. My generations is almost embracing. Just about everybody i know is half-assed bisexual, and I don't travel in particularly exotic circles. Another wrinkle in this whole thing is that racial and ethnic prejudices were based much more in politics and economics, whereas homophobia is more psychologically based. Nobody ever wanted the gays out because they were gonna bring down property values. Just a theory.

By: straight

straight — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:15:13 -0800

Sadly, this seems to be especially true among the black clergy. In fact, they seem to bristle with outright indignation whenever anyone tries to draw a parallel between the civil rights movement of the 50's and 60's and today's gay rights movement. I don't deny that gays face many kinds of discrimination. And I remember with dread the interminable debatesI heard in grad school over who had been victimized the worst: blacks or women? That said, I can sympathise with a black man who believes that the discrimination gays experience today is in no way comparable to what he faced in the 50's.

By: darkstar

darkstar — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:35:16 -0800

And yeah, the lack of involvent from liberal clergy is disheartening. Then check out these folks in Arizona, for a bit of encouragement. Their Phoenix Declaration is a pretty significant step in the right direction.

By: raedyn

raedyn — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 15:12:00 -0800

This time around, it appears that the clergy seems dead set against the rights of the minority. - Thorzdad Depends which clergy you're asking. There's plenty of clergy that deride discrimination against gay people and who are working for equality. See, for example, the 350 MA clergy from various faiths that spoke out in favour of equal marriage in 2003. Or pro-gay groups like those in the United Church of Canada, the Unitarian Universalist Association, and the United Church of Christ, (which are officially recognized by the Church bodies) and like Lutherans Concerned and Dignity which aren't officially sanctioned, but are clergy and people of faith coming together in favour of what they consider to be an important cause. Just about everybody i know is half-assed bisexual, and I don't travel in particularly exotic circles. - jonmc You do, however, travel in particularly urban circles. (Being a NYCer and all). This may skew your data somewhat.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 15:21:50 -0800

You do, however, travel in particularly urban circles. (Being a NYCer and all). I'm in Queens, Not Chelsea. And it was similar when I've lived in less urban places.

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 15:26:35 -0800

I hear the Outer Burrough are the new Chelsea. Particularly Brooklyn.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 16:00:09 -0800

I hear the Outer Burrough are the new Chelsea. Particularly Brooklyn. Northeast Brooklyn, especially Williamsburg, Greenpoint, and Sunset Park have become very hipster/yuppie neighborhoods (much to the chagrin of the original residents), which means that gays and artists settled the area back in the day. Queens still remains lovably gauche, god bless it.

By: piers

piers — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 16:10:59 -0800

Thanks, raedyn. The Christian church I grew up in performed gay marriages (or commitment ceremonies, or whatever you would call them since they are not legally recognized) and had openly gay clergy. Of course, I did grow up in L.A.

By: Mick

Mick — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 16:42:07 -0800

I think P&G being so involved with the repeal effort made many in Cincinnati rethink. P&G said that discrimination would hurt their efforts to hire the best and bring them to Cincinnati. Ans this would hurt the bottom line. Since so many in Cincy own stock in P&G this got them to stop and think and decided to vote their pocket book (plus most around here do whatever P&G and/or Chiquita tell them to do)

By: tizzie

tizzie — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 17:36:57 -0800

'people of faith', 'people of color' I hate those exclusionary bigotted phrases. HTuttle, I used the author's phrase. One of the heartening things about this story, to my weary-of-the-fundies mind, is that religious moderates played a role. I thought they'd gone extinct.

By: effwerd

effwerd — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:46:58 -0800

That said, I can sympathise with a black man who believes that the discrimination gays experience today is in no way comparable to what he faced in the 50's. This is just a matter of degree and I think they get carried away with their own sense of suffering if they deny that any aspect of blatant inequality and discrimination is not worthy of empathy. Black leadership, at any level, should be ashamed of themselves if they bristle at any plea for support from the GLT community on these matters. Since I'm not gay, have been middle class all of my life, and I look caucasian, I haven't suffered discrimination to any significant degree, but it's clear even to my pampered ass that any reasonable approach to GLT issues is to stick to our principles: equal protection and opportunity under the law for all. Any manifestations of legislated discrimination is an embarrassment to this country and I'm appalled that it has come this far. Living in Utah where the Mormon leadership has been fighting against gay marriage since the 90s, I've been looking for more bright signs of legislative reason on these issues and I'm thankful for this post.

By: jiawen

jiawen — Thu, 16 Feb 2006 22:28:03 -0800

Mick, it's really cool to hear that P&G has principles. Or at least did the right thing.

By: The Mermaid

The Mermaid — Fri, 17 Feb 2006 07:29:45 -0800

I live about 25 miles from Cincinnati and they are second only to Indiana in highest concentration of bigoted, racist rednecks per capita. Indiana has the dubious honor of having the largest and most powerful number of Ku Klux Klan members in history.

By: Mick

Mick — Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:19:52 -0800

And yet these results prove you completely wrong. Looks like you're the one with prejudice issues that need to be examined