Comments on: So much "faith", so little time.

So much "faith", so little time.

troutfishing — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:08:58 -0800

"Faith-Based Homeland Security" ? - the "Stealth Presidency" To scant media coverage, George W. Bush has signed an executiver order establishing a "Faith-Based" office within the DHC. The Washington Post depicted this as relating mainly to the Katrina relief effort. But is this The Stealth Presidency" ?: Jim Towey, director of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives, "confirmed [ to Esther Kaplan, author of "With God on Their side..." ] that no direct federal grants from his program had gone to a non-Christian religious group" . Prior to 2000, many Christian right groups were on the skids, says Kaplan, but many are now riding high on wave of [ largely unaudited and untracked ] faith based federal and state $. How much ? Bill Berkowitz ventures an asessment. TheocracyWatch has a compendium of all things "Faith Based". Prisons, science, sex ed....

By: troutfishing

troutfishing — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:21:03 -0800

I couldn't link to it on the front page, but I covered a recent related story - which I depicted rather bluntly : $500 Million for federal "bigotry based" initiative ? [ 365gay.com titled the story Millions In Federal Funds Handed To Anti-Gay Groups" ] Further, the lack of attention paid to to the sheer scale of the burgeoning "faith based" quasi governmental realm [ that some would call "theocratic" ] is bizarre given that the pool of federal funds open - in theory - to grant applications from religious groups ranges as high as $100 billion dollars. I seem to be one of the few besides Esther Kaplan and Bill Berkowitz who has attempted to asess the possible monetary scope of the new "faith based realm. But, that was a relatively cursory effort on my part. Basically, nobody really knows. Jim Towey says his office doesn't keep records of how much "faith-based" federal cash it shovels out....

By: dbiedny

dbiedny — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:24:17 -0800

I have Faith that the situation in the US is gonna get a lot weirder before it gets any better. This is, in a word, heinous.

By: troutfishing

troutfishing — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:25:06 -0800

Also, DefCon, "The campaign to defend the Constitution", has just launched an add campaign - both TV and print - to highlight A "faith based" gambling initiative of sorts.

By: I Foody

I Foody — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:27:12 -0800

No religous based charity should get anything from the government no matter what. I don't care if you pulled a baby from a well and nursed him back to health, not one thin dime! I'm serious I see no compelling reason why, every dollar that is allocated to faith based relief is a dollar removed from secular relief. And people of this country should have the right not to finance other people's religions.

By: Joey Michaels

Joey Michaels — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:27:28 -0800

troutfishing: Basically, nobody really knows. Jim Towey says his office doesn't keep records of how much "faith-based" federal cash it shovels out.... This sounds like a book keeping issue of massive proportions. The government is spending out money and doesn't even know how much of it they are spending? The church and state mix is offensive and likely goes against the Constitution, but the lack of proper accounting is, IMO, even more infuriating. Does believing in God absolve the Federal Government of proper accounting procedures?

By: troutfishing

troutfishing — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:29:37 -0800

"Jack Ambramoff's Accidental Faith Based Gambling Initiative ?"

Click on image, above, for full size print ad

Play DefCon TV ad with Windows Media >>
Play DefCon TV ad with Quick Time >>

By: troutfishing

troutfishing — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:30:56 -0800

Joey Michaels - Well, nobody has been paying much attention.

By: teece

teece — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:37:34 -0800

This country just makes me sad, any more. I remember when Gore caved in 2000, thinking to myself, crestfallen, "It's no big deal, so we get 4 or 8 years of another Bush..." Holy shit, was I wrong. Bush has made this country someplace I don't even want to live in any more. Every week, there is at least one thing that this government does that completely disgusts me, and that is utterly corrupt and against core American principles. *sigh* I guess we had a good run.

By: bardic

bardic — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:41:04 -0800

You guys just don't remember the part of the gospels where Jesus ran around organizing charities based on Roman donations, and gave himself and his apostles healthy six-figure salaries.

By: billysumday

billysumday — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:41:36 -0800

These fiscal contributions help offset some of the emotional damage suffered by Christians during the last War on the Christmas; surely some of this money will help assuage the pain they will feel in the upcoming campaign, as well.

By: I Foody

I Foody — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:49:09 -0800

God! I hate Christ, somone should kill that guy.

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:03:11 -0800

If I wasn't already so furious, I would be furious.

By: mrbill

mrbill — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:12:40 -0800

For a minute I was hoping it was this DefCon that was involved...

By: mr_crash_davis

mr_crash_davis — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:15:07 -0800

Towey: "I just throw all the money up in the air, and whatever God catches, I report."

By: hincandenza

hincandenza — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:16:06 -0800

And i yet again iterate that you have two responses to this: you either start blowing shit up in response and shooting people, or do like me just sink into a state of futile anger and rage, impotent to do anything at all. The country has been threadjacked to almost biblical proportions. Every other "choice" is not a choice at all, it's something little kiddies delude themselves into thinking before they've actually grown up- shit like "we can still fix this!" or "we can make a difference!". No actually- you cannot. This is a runaway train, and it's not getting fixed.

By: slatternus

slatternus — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:17:31 -0800

You guys are fucked down there, unless you can make some serious progress in the November elections. By the way, have I mentioned recently that Canada's immigration system fast-tracks political refugees?

By: Dillenger69

Dillenger69 — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:27:22 -0800

Is there a legalese Gubmint definition of "Faith Based" anywhere? As long as they don't limit things to christians and jews I can't see the harm in this. Somehow I doubt "religious diversity and tolerance" will be their watchwords though.

By: Skorgu

Skorgu — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:30:22 -0800

Situations like this are conflicting to me: I don't know whether to be vindicated that my judgements of the party in power and the system it belongs to were accurate or to despair of the direction the nation is taking. I'm leaning towards despair. Despair and substantial foreign investment. Despair and foreign investment and an up-to-date passport. Despair and...I'll come in again.

By: Joey Michaels

Joey Michaels — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:32:31 -0800

The harm in this is that every dollar that goes to a faith based initiative frees up a dollar that church was previously spending on charity to spend on politics. There is a reason the Christian Churches of the U.S. have been so much more effectivly getting out the vote lately, and part of that reason is that they have a lot more money available to them than they did six years ago.

By: solipse

solipse — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:33:15 -0800

If you want to "do" something about it, start moving money out of the country. You'll be setting yourself up for some level of expatriate retirement, and more importantly, hurting the Feds in the only place it matters: tax revenue.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:38:21 -0800

Remarkable. Essentially, the US Admin is forcing its citizens to tithe. What's next, crucifying the non-believers? Take back your country already, dammit!

By: BillyElmore

BillyElmore — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:39:52 -0800

Your Faith Based tax dollars at work: A right-wing organization, posing as a Christians, has somehow found 20 million dollars to purchase and silence Air America in Phoenix. Air America had rocketed for a zero rating to third in the Phoenix market in one year. It appears the liberal talk station is more a victim of success than failure. Now Phoenix listeners will have eighth religious stations and no progressive voice. Air America is fighting back.

By: chunking express

chunking express — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:43:56 -0800

Canada is so fucking awesome.

By: Pollomacho

Pollomacho — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:44:37 -0800

To translate the document into English: the Salvation Army will be able to get FEMA money for helping disaster victims.

By: wakko

wakko — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:46:36 -0800

America sucks more every day.

By: slatternus

slatternus — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:54:31 -0800

Seriously, America does seem hell bent on proving Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" hypothesis - that a social policy that drives the brains away will lead inevitably to social collapse.

By: psmealey

psmealey — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:55:42 -0800

I had faith on 9/10/2001 that the federal government and armed forces that they would do everything they could to prevent (or limit) the possibility of a heinous terrorist attack on American soil. Since 9/11, I have had no faith.

By: Pollomacho

Pollomacho — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:56:31 -0800

Canada is so fucking awesome. Why because they have been funding faith-based groups with federal funds all along?

By: MikeKD

MikeKD — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:58:37 -0800

slatternus: The thing is, when the shit truly hits the fan in the US, I worry that Canada will end up as collateral damage of some sort. Now New Zealand...that might be far enough away to be safe (for awhile, at least)

By: CynicalKnight

CynicalKnight — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:59:26 -0800

Canada's immigration system fast-tracks political refugees Don't be running up here like the Tories did. Stay and fight to fix your country.

By: slatternus

slatternus — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:04:05 -0800

MikeKD: It's true. When the Elephant goes down, the mouse gets crushed. And then there's our supply of fresh water - largest in the world. I don't want to think about what's going to happen when America starts getting thirsty.

By: chunking express

chunking express — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:12:43 -0800

Why because they have been funding faith-based groups with federal funds all along? Nope, for all sorts of other reasons.

By: Farengast

Farengast — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:47:44 -0800

From the whitehouse.gov link: "The purpose of the Center shall be to coordinate agency efforts to eliminate regulatory, contracting, and other programmatic obstacles to the participation of faith-based and other community organizations in the provision of social and community services." So basically, the purpose of this office is to circumvent the separation of church and state (read: circumvent the constitution)? Does anybody else find this disturbingly brazen? To setup an office whose documented purpose is the removal of church and state separations. Damn I hate W.

By: elpapacito

elpapacito — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 13:57:27 -0800

Sec. 2. Purpose of Center. The purpose of the Center shall be to coordinate agency efforts to eliminate regulatory, contracting, and other programmatic obstacles to the participation of faith-based and other community organizations in the provision of social and community services. Obviously overlooking : WHY were the "obstacles" there in first place, maybe because most religious people wouldn't accept compromise with their religion ? I recall the pharmacists not wanting to give abortion pills, the doctors not wanting to practice abortion , but the example list is probably a lot longer then this. Yet something is far more dangerous then a few alleged "church leader" stealing some money from the government : religious indoctrination. Well financed religious indoctrination is DANGEROUS, human values are used as hostages and proclaimed as if they were the property of some religion. I resisted it throught my life living in Rome and I don't want any of my childs and the childs of others to suffer what I suffered and the damages my relatives and parents suffered from indoctrination. So if you see a child near a pastor of any confession, remove the kid from the pastor attention. Don't EVER bring a kid to a church and watch out for pastor activites in school. You want your kid to become a modern Taliban or a sexually repressed person, afraid of invisible Sky Gods and afraid of fictionary Hell and Paradise ?

By: troutfishing

troutfishing — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 14:23:24 -0800

Why yes, and more ! ( just kidding )

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 14:51:07 -0800

I don't know that these people are seriously believers. Remember the warden from "The Shawshank Redemption"? Kinda like that guy. ....shot himself didn't he?

By: quonsar

quonsar — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 14:55:26 -0800

the real question is, have i reported this post to the Department of Faith-based Gratuitous Spaces Before Question Marks ?

By: troutfishing

troutfishing — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 17:08:50 -0800

Hey, in matters of taste there is no judgement..... Metafilter is a weird space, hence the charm - Hi quonsar.

By: InnocentBystander

InnocentBystander — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 19:18:08 -0800

Ok, get your minds off accounting for a moment and read the entire thing. This could be a LOT more than just a matter of funnelling money into oppressing the gays. (that's really just a side bonus) From Section 3: Sec. 3. Responsibilities of the Center for Faith-Based and Community Initiatives. In carrying out the purpose set forth in section 2 of this order, the Center shall: ... (b) coordinate a comprehensive departmental effort to incorporate faith-based and other community organizations in Department programs and initiatives to the greatest extent possible; ... (d) propose the development of innovative pilot and demonstration programs to increase the participation of faith-based and other community organizations in Federal as well as State and local initiatives; and (e) develop and coordinate Departmental outreach efforts to disseminate information more effectively to faith-based and other community organizations with respect to programming changes, contracting opportunities, and other agency initiatives, including but not limited to Web and Internet resources. Did we catch that? NOWHERE in this document does it spell out what exact "social and community services" it's talking about. Strictly speaking, this document *could* authorize the creation of neighborhood spying rings. "Have you been disloyal, neighbor?" Or just start directly using churches to disseminate government propaganda. I mean, it's probably intended just to funnel money to the churches... but it could be abused. Easily.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:49:15 -0800

They'll pray those hurricanes away, and throw holy water on those terrorists, and call for Jesus to turn that anthrax into wine...it'll be fine--you don't need competent people or competent government when God's around, right? and what the hell is an "anti-person"??? (scroll down, 3rd from bottom)

By: amberglow

amberglow — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:53:58 -0800

Innocent, many states and local places already have faith-based offices set up.

By: Goofyy

Goofyy — Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:59:11 -0800

Nehimiah Scudder, anyone? Mota, save us! St. Robert, pray for us! St. Ginny, pray for us!