Don't take your guns to town, son

March 10, 2006 8:49 AM

When Gregg Revell packed his bags for a trip to Pennsylvania last April, he had no idea how far he'd be traveling.Before the week was out, the 57-year-old suburban real estate agent and grandfather would be arrested, thrown into one of the country's most notorious jails, strip searched and inoculated against his will. The soft-spoken Utah native would be on his way to becoming a poster child for the National Rifle Association in a $3 million lawsuit.
posted by mr_crash_davis (84 comments total)

I hope he wins. This is some bullshit that happened to him.
posted by wakko at 8:56 AM on March 10, 2006

I want to hear the version of this story that involves a black guy from California.
posted by rxrfrx at 8:57 AM on March 10, 2006

Wow...sounds pretty clear cut from the article, if it's being represented accurately.
posted by darkstar at 8:58 AM on March 10, 2006

Damn, that sucks.

But was I the only one who found his account of the prison kind of . . . Amusing?

"I was in a hardened prison! Full of black people! With tattoos! Despite their 'jive' language barrier, I learned to blend in--they even gave me a nickname, and I became a, what-do-you-callit, a 'homeboy'!"
posted by schroedinger at 9:00 AM on March 10, 2006

Yeah. "They all talked jive. It was hard for me to understand." I'm sorry, but: Heh. No heh for the rest of the story, very shitty, but definitely heh on that part.
posted by Gator at 9:02 AM on March 10, 2006

"They all talked jive. It was hard for me to understand," Revell says

Oh, Utah.
posted by jonson at 9:03 AM on March 10, 2006

Gator!
posted by jonson at 9:03 AM on March 10, 2006

"and I will never forget them, those homeboys in the mist."

I never thought I would agree with the NRA on anything.
posted by bondcliff at 9:07 AM on March 10, 2006

"I could have given some people some ideas."

white butts being, um, more attractive????
posted by haikuku at 9:08 AM on March 10, 2006

Or at least shinier.

Are people from Utah really called Utahns? That's ridiculous.
posted by nebulawindphone at 9:11 AM on March 10, 2006

so many issues, so little time. Although I would argue against anyone carrying hollow-point ammunition and a handgun generally, the fact that it is in fact legal to do so means that NJ fucked up. Big time. OTOH, More of "white America" needs to see what it is like behind bars. Maybe some of his prejudices were reinforced, but it sounds like he learned some, too.
posted by klangklangston at 9:15 AM on March 10, 2006

I am very sorry about what happened to this gentleman. It would be horrible to have to spend nearly five days in jail, accused of a crime that you didn't commit.

In a somewhat related note, here is a list of 123 gentlemen that have been convicted and sentenced to death in this country since 1973, and have subsequently been released after being found innocent*, after having spent as much as 33 years in jail.

Here are the details of how they were determined to be innocent. Here is a list of people that have been executed, despite the fact that there were extreme doubts about their guilt.

I repeat that I am sorry that this gentleman had to go through this, and I don't mean to derail this discussion. This is just more information on those that have been incarcerated (or executed) despite being innocent, in case anyone is interested.

*Either their conviction was overturned and they were acquitted at a re-trial, or all charges were dismissed; or they were given an absolute pardon by the governor based on new evidence of innocence.

posted by ND¢ at 9:17 AM on March 10, 2006

white butts being, um, more attractive????

I assume he meant out of novelty.

"I sure am tired of forcibly sodomizing the same shade of butt... *sigh* Say! What's that over there?"
posted by brundlefly at 9:18 AM on March 10, 2006

While I sympathize with the guy for being jailed illegally, I have to say: $3 million? For 5 days in jail? Dayam. I hate these "suing for a frivolous amount to get some attention" lawsuits, and I hope the judge awards him something a bit more reasonable.
posted by antifuse at 9:19 AM on March 10, 2006

Doesn't this law pertain only to the firearm and not to the ammunition?
posted by bshort at 9:20 AM on March 10, 2006

"They all talked jive. It was hard for me to understand," Revell says.

Where is Barbara Billingsley when you need her?
posted by jrossi4r at 9:22 AM on March 10, 2006

(On the one hand, I would complain about my dad using my login, since he has his own. On the other hand, I did leave myself logged in on his computer, and he's likely to make me look more cogent and reasonable than I actually am. That was him previous).
posted by klangklangston at 9:22 AM on March 10, 2006

is that Bountiful, like the one in BC Canada, that the Utah AG is all after?
posted by imaswinger at 9:26 AM on March 10, 2006

I think you call people from Utah Mormons.

**former mormon and utahn**

$3 million is a bit steep for nearly 5, I mean nearly 4 days in jail.

It sucks what happened to him, but why does anyone need hollow point bullets?

And derail over.
posted by nadawi at 9:29 AM on March 10, 2006

white butts being, um, more attractive????

Unfortunately, in that context, yes.

"Past studies have documented the prevalence of black on white sexual aggression in prison.(213) These findings are further confirmed by Human Rights Watch's own research. Overall, our correspondence and interviews with white, black, and Hispanic inmates convince us that white inmates are disproportionately targeted for abuse.(214) Although many whites reported being raped by white inmates, black on white abuse appears to be more common. To a much lesser extent, non-Hispanic whites also reported being victimized by Hispanic inmates."
(from the link above)
posted by ducksauce at 9:31 AM on March 10, 2006

"Are people from Utah really called Utahns? That's ridiculous."

You should hear what people from Tampa are called.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:31 AM on March 10, 2006

It sucks what happened to him, but why does anyone need hollow point bullets?

Well, hunters for one, it is generally illegal to use non-expanding ammo for hunting.

But in this case, if you shoot someone in self defense, it is to prevent them from continuing doing what they are doing. Small surgical holes will often kill after several days, but don't tend to stop a motivated opponent.
posted by 445supermag at 9:39 AM on March 10, 2006

Generally, a gunshot wound (unless it's to the head) isn't going to stop a motivated opponent at all, whether you're using hollow-point bullets or not.
posted by bshort at 9:42 AM on March 10, 2006

If he was jailed illegally -- and it sounds like he was -- then I certainly sympathize. But why on earth was he carrying hollow-point bullets? "Protection" against what, exactly?
posted by littleme at 9:43 AM on March 10, 2006

Some things about this guy's story don't quite add up for me. Such as,

It started as a trip to pick up a BMW in Allentown, Pa., for a relaxing road trip back to Utah. "I fix them up and sell them," Revell says. "Sometimes I make a profit. It's something I do for fun." Revell, who has a Utah concealed weapon permit, usually takes a handgun with him for protection on his car trips.

And this guy is not already an NRA member? He's carrying his little gun everywhere he goes - loaded with hollowpoints. If Bin Laden pops out of a rice bowl, he'll be there to pop a cap in him. I'm not buying that this is a totally innocent guy being harassed by the man. This guy sounds like he was looking for trouble. Funny how trouble usually finds those people.

He probably mouthed off at some North Jersey cops and they just showed the hillbilly a little North Jersey hospitality.
posted by three blind mice at 9:43 AM on March 10, 2006

He's carrying his little gun everywhere he goes - loaded with hollowpoints.

Actually, not loaded; the gun and ammo were packed in two separate locked hard cases.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 9:53 AM on March 10, 2006

Wait, you're saying his story doesn't add up because he's not an NRA member? I know plenty of handgun owners who aren't NRA members. What does that prove?
posted by nebulawindphone at 9:55 AM on March 10, 2006

(Er, that was directed at three blind mice.)
posted by nebulawindphone at 9:55 AM on March 10, 2006

On the one hand, I'm sorry this happened to him, and it sounds unbelievably fucked up.

On the other hand, much worse happens to much more people all the time.
posted by empath at 10:00 AM on March 10, 2006

He needs to be Fully supported in his action by the ACLU, THEn once that is over Mocked for his comments about Blacks in prison.
posted by Elim at 10:13 AM on March 10, 2006

$3 million? For 5 days in jail?

$3 million is a bit steep for nearly 5, I mean nearly 4 days in jail.

In the SL Tribune article it says:

The $3 million damage figure was set to make sure the case gets the attention of airports across the country

I presume that if the lawsuit was a realistic amount then if the PA lost, who would bother reporting it? At least now there is some coverage and discussion going on.

Not USian, don't understand the gun mentality, but can see that this is a pretty crappy thing to go through - reminds me of that movie with Tom Selleck and evil Sledge Hammer.
posted by bruzie at 10:13 AM on March 10, 2006

I can't believe some of you turkeys are making such a big deal over the fact that the guy had hollow point ammo. Total non issue.
The guy has a concealed weapons permit in Utah (although PA doesn't honor it) and he wasn't even carrying it concealed. The .45 was in a locked case, and the ammo in a separate case.

He did absolutely nothing wrong. The PD shook down an innocent person. Did you read the whole article? "Revell never got his .45 back; Essex County never responded to his lawyers' requests."
Not only did they toss him in jail for 4~5 days on a totally bogus charge (which was dropped) but they also confiscated and refused to return his lawfully purchased property. It's sad to see that anyone is ok with that. Pathetic.

$3 million isn't frivolous at all. $30 million, yes. But $3 million? Not at all.
posted by drstein at 10:14 AM on March 10, 2006

Why is $3 million too much? It amazes me that on the one hand, people are very anxious to ascribe malevolence or gross incompetence to the government at the slightest provocation and fret about what's to be done, but on the other hand, when the error is clear cut, wish the punishment (and that's what a $3 million dollar payment would be) to be reduced. Punitive damages exist to modify the behaviour of the defendant, not to enrich the plaintiff.
posted by loquax at 10:20 AM on March 10, 2006

You're thinking of An Innocent Man, bruzie. A pretty dreadful movie, even for Tom Selleck. Always liked David Raische though. Seems he pretty much plays Sledge in some aspect or another.
posted by elendil71 at 10:21 AM on March 10, 2006

I can't believe some of you turkeys are making such a big deal over the fact that the guy had hollow point ammo. Total non issue.

Uh, not if it's illegal in the jurisdiction he was arrested in.
posted by bshort at 10:30 AM on March 10, 2006

Uh, not if it's illegal in the jurisdiction he was arrested in.

Uh, that's not important... perhaps RTFA eh?
posted by rxrfrx at 10:32 AM on March 10, 2006

Is he suing for $3 million dollars, or "$3 million dollars and my damn gun back, ya thievin' bastards"?
posted by madajb at 10:33 AM on March 10, 2006

Metafilter: They all talked jive. It was hard for me to understand
posted by Outlawyr at 10:36 AM on March 10, 2006

Uh, that's not important... perhaps RTFA eh?

Not important? The interstate transportation section of the law appears to apply only to persons who are carrying their firearm through a state with more restrictive gun laws than either the jurisdiction they're coming from or the one they're going to.

That's not what this guy did. He stayed in New Jersey for a couple of days, where he didn't have a permit for the gun and where the ammunition he was carrying was specifically prohibited. It's also not entirely clear that FOPA applies to the ammunition as well as the firearm.

RTFL:

§ 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

The law only appears to apply to cases where the firearm doesn't leave the vehicle. As soon as he took the gun out of the vehicle he was breaking NJ state law.
posted by bshort at 10:41 AM on March 10, 2006

Actually, not loaded; the gun and ammo were packed in two separate locked hard cases.

Under transit, monju. When he gets to his destination, I assume he upacks both and loads his magazine.

Wait, you're saying his story doesn't add up because he's not an NRA member? I know plenty of handgun owners who aren't NRA members. What does that prove?

This isn't your average handgun owner. This is a rube from rural Utah who keeps himself heeled at all times for "protection." C'mon. He had done the airline thing dozens of times which suggests that he never leaves home without it.
posted by three blind mice at 10:51 AM on March 10, 2006

This is why you don't go to New Jersey.
posted by cribcage at 10:51 AM on March 10, 2006

bshort, if that holds true, why were charges dropped?
posted by Mach3avelli at 10:52 AM on March 10, 2006

I never thought I would agree with the NRA on anything.

He needs to be Fully supported in his action by the ACLU

"Full faith and credit" between states baby! That's why the NRA should file amicus briefs in favor of legalizing gay marriage; exactly the same legal principles apply.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 10:55 AM on March 10, 2006

bshort, if that holds true, why were charges dropped?

Charges are dropped for lots of reasons. I'm quoting from the actual law, here.
posted by bshort at 10:55 AM on March 10, 2006

Guy does not have permit needed and he is jailed "illegally"? Even I know enough (and I don't own guns) that you can not simply go from state to state with a gun, concealed or otherwise without a permit from the state you are going into.
posted by Postroad at 11:05 AM on March 10, 2006

This guy sounds like he was looking for trouble. [...] He probably mouthed off at some North Jersey cops and they just showed the hillbilly a little North Jersey hospitality. [...] This is a rube from rural Utah who keeps himself heeled at all times for "protection."


three blind mice, you seem to know a lot more about the situation than the Trib reporter. Care to share your sources?
posted by oncogenesis at 11:09 AM on March 10, 2006

He stayed in New Jersey for a couple of days, where he didn't have a permit for the gun and where the ammunition he was carrying was specifically prohibited.

He stayed overnight in NJ (the first night) only because he missed his flight. The "couple of days" in NJ were spent in jail. He absolutely intended to carry the gun (and ammo) through NJ, not to it.
posted by MrMoonPie at 11:11 AM on March 10, 2006

Unfortunately, for Revell, his Allentown trip required a change of planes in Newark, N.J.
His plane was late arriving in Newark Liberty Airport and he missed his connection. Five hours later, he found himself boarding an airline chartered bus for Allentown, 90 miles away.
Revell also discovered his luggage had not made the connection. Northwest Airline agents apologized that his bags had been mismarked to stop in Newark. By the time he tracked the bags down, his bus had left and he was stuck overnight in New Jersey.
When he returned to the airport the next morning, April Fools' Day, and rechecked his bags - again declaring his handgun and ammunition - he was stopped by security officers of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

What was the guy supposed to do? I guess leave his luggage at the airport..?
posted by Mach3avelli at 11:18 AM on March 10, 2006

Revell soon found himself in Newark's Essex County Jail. "It is the lowest, it is the worst and it has the most hardened criminals of any correctional facility in the nation," says Bach. "It is horrific."

Well that's some exaggeratin' Uthan. I have never been myself, but my dad, an attorney who has done a fair bit of pro bono stuff where clients of his have spent some time there, not to mention that he bailed out some (distantly related) family members from there. Essex County Jail, like Riker's Island is a basic urban holding tank. Definitely no walk in the park and no place anyone would ever want to spend more than a couple of minutes in, but it's no Rahway or San Quentin, the crown jewels of our national and state punishment by gang rapecorrectional systems.

The guy got railroaded, pure and simple. I hope he wins his case (though, maybe for a few hundred grand and not 3 mil.).
posted by psmealey at 11:18 AM on March 10, 2006

Postraod, that is incorrect. You can, by federal law, pass through any jurisdiction, as long as what you're carrying is legal at your departure and destination points.
posted by MrMoonPie at 11:18 AM on March 10, 2006

His departure point was Newark.
posted by bshort at 11:20 AM on March 10, 2006

His departure point was Utah. The intermediate stop in Newark is not a departure nor destination point. Check your tickets with connection details sometime. It's a stop, but not a destination nor point of departure.
posted by dwivian at 11:46 AM on March 10, 2006

From TFL:

You can transport the firearm if:

1) during such transportation the firearm is unloaded
done
2) and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle

Done. It was checked baggage that was mismarked by the airline. Had he made his connection, his bags would have been in Newark, retransported to Pennsylvania, and he'd have them a day late. Either way, this is not readily accessible from the flight concourses nor the passenger cabin.

3) Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

Does not apply.

So, the problem he had was taking possession of his bags in Newark. The entire case hangs on the fact that the airline made his firearm available to him, outside his travel plan. Would they have re-marked his bags and checked them along to his final destination? Usually, no, as that's a risk under DHS guidelines. So, he was obligated under the new laws to take the gun, and arrested for doing so.

Bad luck, that.
posted by dwivian at 11:51 AM on March 10, 2006

But why on earth was he carrying hollow-point bullets?

To protect the lives of innocent bystanders. If you carry a gun for personal protection and load it with FMJ (non-hollowpoint) ammo, you are putting the lives of everyone around you at risk.

A non-hollowpoint bullet has the potential to go straight through like ten people if you line them up right. If you're on the street at night and someone comes at you with a bat, you shoot them, and the bullet goes through them, through a neighbor's window, and though someone's whole family, not only are they all dead or badly wounded, but you're often legally liable.

That's why the military only uses FMJ, where creating wounded enemy soldiers is often more effective at slowing down the enemy -- you can wound several people with a single shot with FMJ. (that, and the geneva convention.)

Hollowpoints are designed to stop when they hit people. Yes, that's going to do more physical damage per shot. But you will avoid shooting people you don't mean to shoot, and won't have to fire ten times to stop them. Whether one big hole or ten little ones is better is a matter personal preference, I suppose, but most police, who have a duty to protect bystanders, also carry hollowpoints.


"Generally, a gunshot wound (unless it's to the head) isn't going to stop a motivated opponent at all, whether you're using hollow-point bullets or not."

That's true. With most guns carried for defense, it typically takes two shots to stop an attacker.
posted by crabintheocean at 12:05 PM on March 10, 2006

nebulawindphone writes "Are people from Utah really called Utahns? That's ridiculous."

Yeah, that made it kind of hard to concentrate on the story.
posted by OmieWise at 12:23 PM on March 10, 2006

Are people from Utah really called Utahns? That's ridiculous.

You can always call them "Utahans" if you prefer, or even "Utahians" if desparate, but the natives definitely prefer "Utahns" . . . .
posted by flug at 12:25 PM on March 10, 2006

"Are people from Utah really called Utahns? That's ridiculous."

You should hear what people from Tampa are called.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:31 AM PST on March 10 [!]

Mr Crash Davis, I cannot prove it, but I sincerely believe you started this thread with the specific intention of telling this joke.

Well played, sir. Well played.
posted by davejay at 12:26 PM on March 10, 2006

This never would have happened with a Republican in the White House.
posted by Smedleyman at 12:26 PM on March 10, 2006

ffs, people, regardless your opinions on gun ownership, the guy was following the laws exactly. How on earth can any of you support it, justify it, or excuse it?

This is a very dangerous path you are heading down: a blasé attitude toward over-policing just encourages your governments to invade your privacy more, deny your rights more, and basically fuck you over at whim.

IMO any sensible person should be some pissed about what goes on in this Utahn's story, and should be making some waves about it.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:42 PM on March 10, 2006

A non-hollowpoint bullet has the potential to go straight through like ten people if you line them up right. If you're on the street at night and someone comes at you with a bat, you shoot them, and the bullet goes through them, through a neighbor's window, and though someone's whole family, not only are they all dead or badly wounded, but you're often legally liable.

I told them that the "Standing In A Line Before An Open Window" contest shouldn't be held next to Crime Alley, but those crazy, beautiful dead bastards wouldn't listen!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:58 PM on March 10, 2006

I'm no fan of the NRA, but this was fucked up. He never intended to get stuck in Jersey with contraband. If anything he should have been arrested when he took possession (of course there was no inspection at that point), rather than at the point when he was placing it in custody for transportation elsewhere.

At some small level I can't fault the authorities for checking him out to make sure he wasn't gun-running. The urbanized cities (Chicago, for instance) consider this one of the greatest contributors to violence in their cities. But he was leaving for Pennsylvania, sort of against the normal flow (which is generally from the South). Tossing him in the hoosegaw for five days is, really, out of line, if only because of the wasted law enforcement resources. I mean, lawful permit in another state, easily verified transportation arrangements and hiccups, and no criminal record whatsoever? These are not the droids you're looking for. Terrible judgement by the cops, DA and judge.

And putting the $3 million in perspective -- the other hospitality lawsuit in the news this week was $20 million for five days in a bedbug-infested hotel. Um, sounds bad, but they could, y'know, leave at any time (and apparently came back later!). Anyway $1M is the minimum to get a lawsuit walking most places, and I'm not even sure that it still sends the "I'm serious" message intended.

All that said, reading this story just makes me think this is one more nail in the coffin of getting Utahns (what? you've got a better word?) to vote for anybody from a blue state. And yes, I know that's something the Perfesser would say.
posted by dhartung at 1:06 PM on March 10, 2006

I can't figure out if bshort is hinging his argument on technicalities, or if he hasn't read the article. He says Revell "stayed in New Jersey for a couple of days," and that "His departure point was Newark." Now, I suppose one could argue that both of these statements are technically true (since the guy was in jail in NJ for a couple of days, and since he left the airport with his baggage for a few hours), but I suspect that bshort hasn't read the article.

Revell seems like a paranoid, racist gun freak to me, but that doesn't mean he should have been arrested. Sure, the charges were dropped, but only after he spent several days in jail. The fact that some innocent people have been held for longer, for less reason, is an argument in support of Revell's lawsuit, not against it.
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:14 PM on March 10, 2006

I don't know anything about this subject but I don't like guns (or the NRA for that matter) so he must have done something wrong and he deserved it.
posted by smackfu at 1:17 PM on March 10, 2006

nadawi writes "It sucks what happened to him, but why does anyone need hollow point bullets?"

Why does anyone need a Porche, bottled tap water, an Excursion, a 6000sq ft house or a ski cabin? What difference does it make if he "needs" it or not?

three blind mice writes "And this guy is not already an NRA member? He's carrying his little gun everywhere he goes - loaded with hollowpoints."

Except of course when travelling as proscribed by law between two locations.

elendil71 writes "You're thinking of An Innocent Man, bruzie. A pretty dreadful movie, even for Tom Selleck."

Shitty or no that movie kept me a wake for days and still freaks me out.
posted by Mitheral at 1:20 PM on March 10, 2006

Now, I suppose one could argue that both of these statements are technically true (since the guy was in jail in NJ for a couple of days, and since he left the airport with his baggage for a few hours), but I suspect that bshort hasn't read the article.

Yes, I've read the article, and the relevant law.

Have you read the law? It's talking about traveling through an intervening state, not hanging out for a couple of days and then retrieving your gun-filled bags to go to god-knows-where.

For a little perspective, since I'm not sure you know where Newark is, it's right across the river from NYC, and is certainly staffed by very paranoid Port Authority employees who are very very much on edge and who aren't going to let shit like this slide.
posted by bshort at 1:22 PM on March 10, 2006

He didn't hang out for a couple of days, bshort. Where did you get that impression?
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:25 PM on March 10, 2006

He missed his flight, stayed overnight, and then went back to the airport the next day.

That's a two days, which, in the parlance of our time, is "a couple."
posted by bshort at 1:28 PM on March 10, 2006

a
posted by bshort at 1:32 PM on March 10, 2006

Yeah, due to an airport screw up. They should arrest the pilots, not this guy.
posted by OmieWise at 1:36 PM on March 10, 2006

Right:

His plane was late arriving in Newark Liberty Airport and he missed his connection. Five hours later, he found himself boarding an airline chartered bus for Allentown, 90 miles away.

Revell also discovered his luggage had not made the connection. Northwest Airline agents apologized that his bags had been mismarked to stop in Newark. By the time he tracked the bags down, his bus had left and he was stuck overnight in New Jersey.

It was entirely not his fault that he had to stay in Jersey.
posted by Gator at 1:38 PM on March 10, 2006

Stranded overnight = hanging out for a couple of days? Gotcha.
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:39 PM on March 10, 2006

While he is on a crusade against injustice and facism he could also help out the victims of the Utah
dance party gestapo raid
posted by zog at 1:47 PM on March 10, 2006

staffed by very paranoid Port Authority employees who are very very much on edge and who aren't going to let shit like this slide.

Because we all know the greatest threat to our national security is someone smuggling a handgun into NYC.
posted by wabashbdw at 1:50 PM on March 10, 2006

The actual complaint (.pdf) includes more specific details about the whole delay and events surrounding the arrest.
posted by Gator at 1:59 PM on March 10, 2006

wabashbdw, 9/11 changed everything, you know. Why do you hate America?
posted by MrMoonPie at 2:20 PM on March 10, 2006

>three blind mice:
>Some things about this guy's story don't quite add up for >me. ... I'm not buying that this is a totally innocent guy >being harassed by the man. This guy sounds like he was >looking for trouble. Funny how trouble usually finds those >people.

He's a semi-retired realitor who has just bought a beemer and has come to drive it home. In what way is this a trouble maker?

>He probably mouthed off at some North Jersey cops and >they just showed the hillbilly a little North Jersey
>hospitality.

He deals with people, total strangers, for a living. If he flies around the country buying BMWs as a hobby, he's probably good at it. Even if he did say something "off" how much prison time should that warrant?

>empath:
>On the one hand, I'm sorry this happened to him, and it >sounds unbelievably fucked up. On the other hand, much >worse happens to much more people all the time.

So this makes it OK then?

>Postroad:
>Guy does not have permit needed and he is
>jailed "illegally"?

He had done this a number of times before. He had filled out the proper paperwork and was in full compliance. The officers didn't like what he was doing so they just made it a "crime" on the spot. Usually this doesn't happen to white people, which makes it news.

>MrMoonPie:
>Revell seems like a paranoid, racist gun freak to me,

(Paranoid)
Err, you're suggesting that a well-to-do stranger traveling through alien parts of the country, will never have the slightest need to defend themself or others?

(Racist)
I didn't quite get how it was racist of him to state in a plain and non-judgemental way that he was a minority in a hostile place and it made him nervous?

(Gun freak)
it's just one of his rights as a citizen. If he clamps a crew-served weapon to the hood of his new car, you can get back to me.

>bshort:
>Have you read the law? It's talking about traveling
>through an intervening state, not hanging out
>for a couple of days

He was forced to stop and sleep overnight. Maybe he was "hanging out" on his way to the ice machine in the motel lobby?

>and then retrieving your gun-filled bags
>to go to god-knows-where.

The article isn't explicit, but I think they only knew what was in the bags because he had filed papers saying, "Yo, a gun is in this bag". How many gun-runners do you know who fly their stuff around one .45 at a time? If he had a SAM or something I could see carrying them one at a time, but a pistol? a single pistol and some ammo?

>Newark ...is ... staffed by very paranoid Port Authority >employees who are very very much on edge and
>who aren't going to let shit like this slide.

Shit like passing out of towners who are in full compliance with the law, but you arrest them for, uh, being some kind of foreigner??
posted by Ken McE at 8:47 PM on March 10, 2006

This all seems straightforward. Regardless of whether one agrees or disagrees with gun-control laws, the law allowed for movement through other jurisdictions of properly secured weapons provided paperwork was adequate for the origin and destination of the weapons. Who cares what he needs hollowpoint ammo for? It's legal where he started; it's legal where he was going. Laws exist on the books that allow for unmolested transit (not use, just transit) even through places where the weapons and ammunition are illegal or require further permits.

Honestly, I'm very much in favor of more stringent gun control than less, but this guy does not seem to have been afoul of the law--and just as I get crazy nuts when Joe Bubba decides to throw the book at a Northern city slicker, I'm gonna get crazy nuts here with authoritarian city types violating a man's rights contrary to laws specifically on the books.
posted by trigonometry at 10:18 PM on March 10, 2006

Why does anyone need a Porche, bottled tap water, an Excursion, a 6000sq ft house or a ski cabin?

You know. I ask myself that sort of question every day, but i think my opinions of the expressions of wealth people choose would be an actual derail as opposed to my comments up thread. Furthermore, unless we're talking about diamonds, fur, or designer clothes, the metephor doesn't really apply as the effect that tap water has on the world vs the effect of hollow point bullets is a bit of a stretch.

Lastly, well played crabintheocean
posted by nadawi at 10:55 PM on March 10, 2006

What I find troubling about this situation - and nobody yet pointed out - is the US prison-system-as-cage-match system. If the guy is a suspect and honestly fears for his life and health in custody, it is enough to give me pause. Custody should keep people safe and secure, not scar them for life.
posted by Harald74 at 11:35 PM on March 10, 2006

If the guy is a suspect and honestly fears for his life and health in custody, it is enough to give me pause.

Arm the prisoners. Flintlocks only.
posted by ryoshu at 1:40 AM on March 11, 2006

"...during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle:"

So what's the point of bringing a gun with you "for protection" when much of the time during the road trip it's unavailable?
posted by sluglicker at 8:16 AM on March 11, 2006

What does "what's the point" have to do with anything? What he was doing was legal. That is the only salient fact regarding his actions.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:56 AM on March 11, 2006

It has to do with my curious nature. I'm curious about the reason why people do things for little or no apparent reason, especially when it involves a firearm. The fact that it is legal doesn't satisfy my curiousity nor answer my question.
posted by sluglicker at 4:40 PM on March 11, 2006

So I guess the conversation he overheard went something like this:

First Jive Dude: Shit man, that honky mus' be messin' my old lady... got to be runnin' cold upside down his head. You know?
Second Jive Dude: Hey home, I can dig it. You know he ain't gonna lay no mo' big rap up on you man.
First Jive Dude: I say hey sky, s'other s'ay I wan say?
Second Jive Dude: UH...
First Jive Dude: Pray to J I get the same ol' same ol'.
Second Jive Dude: Eh. Yo knock yourself a pro slick, gray matter live performas down now take TCB'in man.
First Jive Dude: Hey, you know what they say... See a broad, to get that booty yak 'em.
First Jive Dude, Second Jive Dude: Leg 'er down 'n smack 'em yak 'em
First Jive Dude: Cold got to be. You know? Shiiiiit.

(credit)
posted by FlunkedFlank at 8:12 PM on March 11, 2006