Sometimes death comes too late
March 11, 2006 5:25 AM Subscribe
Slobodan Milosevic dies in cell Slobo dead.
Lucky bastard.
posted by pardonyou? at 5:35 AM on March 11, 2006
posted by pardonyou? at 5:35 AM on March 11, 2006
He will probably get a hero's funeral in Beograd, and children named after him. Many Serbs still support what he did, just like many Germans supported Hitler and hated Jews.
posted by iviken at 5:38 AM on March 11, 2006
posted by iviken at 5:38 AM on March 11, 2006
What xquzyphr said. At first, I felt a twinge of glee, then realized that those who still think he's an OK guy can go on thinking that, instead of being confronted with the truth ow what he did and ordered others to do.
posted by notsnot at 5:43 AM on March 11, 2006
posted by notsnot at 5:43 AM on March 11, 2006
Depressing if only that there's no actual trial now.
Exactly. I could give a rat's ass about Milosevich (except that I wish they'd pronounce his name correctly: mi-LO-sheh-vich), but it was a serious mistake to let the trial drag on forever. Now 1) there's no resolution, as XQ says, and 2) plenty of people will assume he was killed secretly and make a martyr of him. Bad show, tribunal.
posted by languagehat at 5:44 AM on March 11, 2006
Exactly. I could give a rat's ass about Milosevich (except that I wish they'd pronounce his name correctly: mi-LO-sheh-vich), but it was a serious mistake to let the trial drag on forever. Now 1) there's no resolution, as XQ says, and 2) plenty of people will assume he was killed secretly and make a martyr of him. Bad show, tribunal.
posted by languagehat at 5:44 AM on March 11, 2006
Given the speed at which his case has been handled, this outcome was almost a given. If only he had had the decency to die of natural causes about 20 years ago ...
posted by moonbiter at 5:46 AM on March 11, 2006
posted by moonbiter at 5:46 AM on March 11, 2006
A lot of dying in cells lately. Babic suicide too. hmmm.
posted by dabitch at 6:02 AM on March 11, 2006
posted by dabitch at 6:02 AM on March 11, 2006
NO PUNCTUATION FOR YOU!
posted by DenOfSizer at 6:09 AM on March 11, 2006
posted by DenOfSizer at 6:09 AM on March 11, 2006
What's the anti-period? And not the !, that's more a Hunter S. Thompson-thing.
Or, you know, what Busithoth said.
posted by kalimac at 6:15 AM on March 11, 2006
Or, you know, what Busithoth said.
posted by kalimac at 6:15 AM on March 11, 2006
Good riddance, although I would have preferred it had been suicide...an admission of guilt.
posted by furtive at 6:25 AM on March 11, 2006
posted by furtive at 6:25 AM on March 11, 2006
I don't understand the above commenter's dislike of Milosevic; he just had "wacky ideas that challenge your comfort zone", I mean, it's not that we're against freedom of speech or something.
posted by matteo at 6:31 AM on March 11, 2006
posted by matteo at 6:31 AM on March 11, 2006
Does anyone have the mailing address of the Hague? I'd love to send some black roses, or something similarly celebratory.
posted by tiamat at 6:38 AM on March 11, 2006
posted by tiamat at 6:38 AM on March 11, 2006
matteo, if you're so unclear on the difference between opinion and action that you can confuse these two issues, then you have serious problems.
Welcome to Matteo's World of Thoughtcrime!
posted by Malor at 6:59 AM on March 11, 2006
Welcome to Matteo's World of Thoughtcrime!
posted by Malor at 6:59 AM on March 11, 2006
between opinion and action
I'm sure that you have plenty of people, in Serbia and elsewhere, that are ready to deny the reality of Milosevic's slaughter. hence, no action. or, justifiable actions of a war leader who lost the war and was tried by his enemies.
see how easy it is?
posted by matteo at 7:01 AM on March 11, 2006
I'm sure that you have plenty of people, in Serbia and elsewhere, that are ready to deny the reality of Milosevic's slaughter. hence, no action. or, justifiable actions of a war leader who lost the war and was tried by his enemies.
see how easy it is?
posted by matteo at 7:01 AM on March 11, 2006
Lucky bastard.
That was my reaction too, pardonyou. Dying peacefully in one's sleep is a privilege that should be reserved for the just.
posted by tizzie at 7:04 AM on March 11, 2006
That was my reaction too, pardonyou. Dying peacefully in one's sleep is a privilege that should be reserved for the just.
posted by tizzie at 7:04 AM on March 11, 2006
Well, at least he did die in custody, essentially having served a life sentence, unlike some other dictators.
posted by TedW at 7:14 AM on March 11, 2006
posted by TedW at 7:14 AM on March 11, 2006
I would much rather he died of a massive, painful heart attack while doing his dramatics in the courtroom.
Watching him die on camera while he rants and raves would have been a beautiful thing.
I'm sorta hoping the same thing for Saddam.
"I do not recognize this court! The American Infidels have..."
*gasps, grabs chest, has panicked look on face*
Yeah.
posted by Ynoxas at 7:44 AM on March 11, 2006
Watching him die on camera while he rants and raves would have been a beautiful thing.
I'm sorta hoping the same thing for Saddam.
"I do not recognize this court! The American Infidels have..."
*gasps, grabs chest, has panicked look on face*
Yeah.
posted by Ynoxas at 7:44 AM on March 11, 2006
"or what mkultra said... how'd he do that?
posted by zpousman at 10:17 AM EST on March 11 [!]"
strike tag pair around period. Good job, mkultra. A typo convention for MeFi that will be useful in the future.
As for this bit of news, I hope they bury the SOB face down in a sewer.
posted by paulsc at 7:46 AM on March 11, 2006
posted by zpousman at 10:17 AM EST on March 11 [!]"
strike tag pair around period. Good job, mkultra. A typo convention for MeFi that will be useful in the future.
As for this bit of news, I hope they bury the SOB face down in a sewer.
posted by paulsc at 7:46 AM on March 11, 2006
*
(I had the same thought -- the asterisk as an asshole symbol)
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 8:13 AM on March 11, 2006
(I had the same thought -- the asterisk as an asshole symbol)
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 8:13 AM on March 11, 2006
I feel that the whole thing would deserve a better discussion. Many Serbs do not support what he did, and would rather have had the chance to try him for what he did to them.
While we are celebrating, regretting or wondering how Milošević has died, the ICTY is helping a friendlier criminal make Kosovo an independent, ethnically cleaner place. Possibly, with a larger and more efficient Camp Bondsteel — which is doing so much to strengthen the local economy as well.
(Sorry; the news are offering so many reasons to be bitter, these days.)
posted by pino.it at 8:19 AM on March 11, 2006
While we are celebrating, regretting or wondering how Milošević has died, the ICTY is helping a friendlier criminal make Kosovo an independent, ethnically cleaner place. Possibly, with a larger and more efficient Camp Bondsteel — which is doing so much to strengthen the local economy as well.
(Sorry; the news are offering so many reasons to be bitter, these days.)
posted by pino.it at 8:19 AM on March 11, 2006
ed... you know that part in 2001, where the new man-apes or whatever gets the clubs and beat the living hell out of the old ape things, taking over supremacy, gaining access to food and water, eventually causing the other species to die out?
What is it within the human genome that causes us to commit such evil?
Yeah...
So Milosevic is finally dead... too bad he didn't die 20 years ago, beaten over the head with a club. So wait, would that be evil as well? DILEMMA!
posted by AspectRatio at 8:20 AM on March 11, 2006
What is it within the human genome that causes us to commit such evil?
Yeah...
So Milosevic is finally dead... too bad he didn't die 20 years ago, beaten over the head with a club. So wait, would that be evil as well? DILEMMA!
posted by AspectRatio at 8:20 AM on March 11, 2006
ed, sometimes the reason is simply 'because they can'.
it was led to happen because the international community was slow to act (Darfur, anyone?). We are animals, and the potential for 'evil' is ever-present. Accountability is the best deterrent, and I'll never support some kind of 'pre-emptive genetic modding' to disable a human's behavior pattern, thank you very much.
(watches kosovo video again to lighten up)
posted by Busithoth at 8:25 AM on March 11, 2006
it was led to happen because the international community was slow to act (Darfur, anyone?). We are animals, and the potential for 'evil' is ever-present. Accountability is the best deterrent, and I'll never support some kind of 'pre-emptive genetic modding' to disable a human's behavior pattern, thank you very much.
(watches kosovo video again to lighten up)
posted by Busithoth at 8:25 AM on March 11, 2006
You can enjoy the Chomsky-esque revisioning of Slobo's bio at wikipedia.
posted by docgonzo at 8:37 AM on March 11, 2006
posted by docgonzo at 8:37 AM on March 11, 2006
But perhaps this thread might examine what led these atrocities to happen or explain why they happened.
That's a lot to ask of any thread. Slobo was a bad person; he's dead; let's leave it at that. There will be other threads.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 8:37 AM on March 11, 2006
That's a lot to ask of any thread. Slobo was a bad person; he's dead; let's leave it at that. There will be other threads.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 8:37 AM on March 11, 2006
Nicely said Busithoth.
What a corrupt monster Milosevic was with his 'ethnic cleansing', ugh. It was a strange and complex war. His death is soon after Babic's suicide in his cell last Sunday. Milosevic's father suicided when Slobodan was a teen and his mother hanged herself 10 years later.
The first judge, Sir Richard May, presiding over the Milosevic trial, died 2 years ago at 65.
The Balkan countries have their work cut out for them.
posted by nickyskye at 8:41 AM on March 11, 2006
What a corrupt monster Milosevic was with his 'ethnic cleansing', ugh. It was a strange and complex war. His death is soon after Babic's suicide in his cell last Sunday. Milosevic's father suicided when Slobodan was a teen and his mother hanged herself 10 years later.
The first judge, Sir Richard May, presiding over the Milosevic trial, died 2 years ago at 65.
The Balkan countries have their work cut out for them.
posted by nickyskye at 8:41 AM on March 11, 2006
He was one of the immortals. That man could kill a muslim better than George W., Benjamin Netanyahu, and the Asian Tsunami combined.
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:48 AM on March 11, 2006
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:48 AM on March 11, 2006
Interesting and extensive streaming video archive of Cornell International Law Journal's Spring Symposium 2005: "Milosevic and Hussein on Trial".
posted by nickyskye at 8:53 AM on March 11, 2006
posted by nickyskye at 8:53 AM on March 11, 2006
Wow. That was quite an illuminating link. Densely packed with relevent details and information.
posted by spock at 9:01 AM on March 11, 2006
posted by spock at 9:01 AM on March 11, 2006
You can enjoy the Chomsky-esque revisioning of Slobo's bio at wikipedia.
If I read at wikipedia that the sky is blue, I'd still look out the window to make sure.
Anyway, so long, a**hole. The world's a better place without you.
posted by slatternus at 10:00 AM on March 11, 2006
If I read at wikipedia that the sky is blue, I'd still look out the window to make sure.
Anyway, so long, a**hole. The world's a better place without you.
posted by slatternus at 10:00 AM on March 11, 2006
It's true that there are still plenty of Serbs who look back on his actions as justified, and the subsequent consequences as a conspiracy by the Western powers-that-be to bring Serbia down, but you know, it wasn't NATO bombing that got rid of him, it was street protests by the people of Serbia. If the attitude in Serbia towards his trial maybe isn't so convinced that it's the just thing, I think that has a lot to do with the fact that many people believe he should be tried in Serbia. After all, Serbia got screwed over by him too.
I'm not sorry to see him go, except in that it would have been really interesting to see what the trial could have uncovered.
As for naming kids after him, Slobodan is such a common name that I doubt it would be noticeable if more people named their children that. If he does end up with a hero's funeral and whatever other form of being lionized they can think of, it won't be so different from what happened to Tudjman- he died early enough that no one in Croatia ever questioned some of his actions during the war, so there are plenty of streets named after him and such.
posted by Oobidaius at 10:06 AM on March 11, 2006
I'm not sorry to see him go, except in that it would have been really interesting to see what the trial could have uncovered.
As for naming kids after him, Slobodan is such a common name that I doubt it would be noticeable if more people named their children that. If he does end up with a hero's funeral and whatever other form of being lionized they can think of, it won't be so different from what happened to Tudjman- he died early enough that no one in Croatia ever questioned some of his actions during the war, so there are plenty of streets named after him and such.
posted by Oobidaius at 10:06 AM on March 11, 2006
Here's hoping Norm MacDonald -- I mean, Death -- has a roadmap to Saddam's cell, now that this task is over.
posted by evilcolonel at 11:06 AM on March 11, 2006
posted by evilcolonel at 11:06 AM on March 11, 2006
I think Tito being idealized by Yugoslavians as a Benevolent Dictator Who Held Yugoslavia Together paved the way for Slobbo's atrocities. Of course, the Hatfield-McCoy Chetnik-Ustaše rabid nationalists on either side of the Serbian and Croatian fence didn't help any.
Hacktivist tangent: the Cult of the Dead Cow and Milosevic connection via the expert testimony of Patrick Ball's speech. (Transcript of Milosevic speaking to Patrick Ball during the International Criminal Tribunal).
posted by nickyskye at 11:44 AM on March 11, 2006
Hacktivist tangent: the Cult of the Dead Cow and Milosevic connection via the expert testimony of Patrick Ball's speech. (Transcript of Milosevic speaking to Patrick Ball during the International Criminal Tribunal).
posted by nickyskye at 11:44 AM on March 11, 2006
8D
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 12:09 PM on March 11, 2006
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 12:09 PM on March 11, 2006
booyahkasha! :D
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 12:35 PM on March 11, 2006
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 12:35 PM on March 11, 2006
Chomsky-esque revisioning
what the hell is that supposed to mean?
posted by Hat Maui at 3:47 PM on March 11, 2006
what the hell is that supposed to mean?
posted by Hat Maui at 3:47 PM on March 11, 2006
Personally, I like the docpops and lupus_yonderboy approach. The only punctuation this one deserves is a starfish.
*
Burn asshole, burn.
posted by djeo at 5:59 PM on March 11, 2006
*
Burn asshole, burn.
posted by djeo at 5:59 PM on March 11, 2006
਼
posted by pyramid termite at 6:58 PM on March 11, 2006
posted by pyramid termite at 6:58 PM on March 11, 2006
=O=
That's the closest I can get to sending him off with a big emoticon goatse. Buh bye.
posted by maryh at 10:09 PM on March 11, 2006
That's the closest I can get to sending him off with a big emoticon goatse. Buh bye.
posted by maryh at 10:09 PM on March 11, 2006
Milosevic and the Serbian Army's actions in general were indefensible, and this outpouring of anger is understandable.
However it can also be useful to remember the context in which the Butcher of Belgrade took advantage of existing (justifiable?) hatreds.
1941: "Some 700,000 Serbs were butchered in manner so unspeakable that even [the Coatians'] Nazi German masters were appalled.".
posted by Kiwi at 5:26 AM on March 12, 2006
However it can also be useful to remember the context in which the Butcher of Belgrade took advantage of existing (justifiable?) hatreds.
1941: "Some 700,000 Serbs were butchered in manner so unspeakable that even [the Coatians'] Nazi German masters were appalled.".
posted by Kiwi at 5:26 AM on March 12, 2006
However it can also be useful to remember the context
"Useful" in the sense that it helps to know what Milosevic was talking about, but not in the sense that it somehow "explains" the atrocities of the '90s. If a bunch of Japanese decided to start butchering Americans and claimed it was because of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it would rightly be seen as ridiculous, and if a bunch of other Japanese enthusiastically joined in it would be because of their own fucked-up resentments and irrationalities, not because of WWII. The same is true here. The Serbs have a long history of dominating other South Slavs (and resenting the latter for not appreciating their luck in being dominated by Serbs), and their hatred and violence was an outgrowth of that, not of Croatian cruelties decades previous, any more than of the Battle of Kosovo centuries previous (which Milosevic also used as a pretext). Politicians dredge up whatever is convenient to support their own policies; people either buy it or they don't, and if they buy it and march off to commit atrocities, it's on their own heads.
posted by languagehat at 7:40 AM on March 12, 2006
"Useful" in the sense that it helps to know what Milosevic was talking about, but not in the sense that it somehow "explains" the atrocities of the '90s. If a bunch of Japanese decided to start butchering Americans and claimed it was because of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it would rightly be seen as ridiculous, and if a bunch of other Japanese enthusiastically joined in it would be because of their own fucked-up resentments and irrationalities, not because of WWII. The same is true here. The Serbs have a long history of dominating other South Slavs (and resenting the latter for not appreciating their luck in being dominated by Serbs), and their hatred and violence was an outgrowth of that, not of Croatian cruelties decades previous, any more than of the Battle of Kosovo centuries previous (which Milosevic also used as a pretext). Politicians dredge up whatever is convenient to support their own policies; people either buy it or they don't, and if they buy it and march off to commit atrocities, it's on their own heads.
posted by languagehat at 7:40 AM on March 12, 2006
Well said languagehat. The Chetnik-Ustaše hatred provided a way for Milosevic to justify his ends.
posted by nickyskye at 11:58 AM on March 12, 2006
posted by nickyskye at 11:58 AM on March 12, 2006
one wonders if lawrence "halliburton" eagleberger will be at the funeral?
posted by specialk420 at 12:18 PM on March 12, 2006
posted by specialk420 at 12:18 PM on March 12, 2006
Well, better late than never, God...though a lightning bolt would have been much less ambiguous (and prettier, too).
posted by trigonometry at 10:35 PM on March 12, 2006
posted by trigonometry at 10:35 PM on March 12, 2006
hmmm rifampicin, could it have been used for mental leprosy?
posted by nickyskye at 4:06 PM on March 13, 2006
posted by nickyskye at 4:06 PM on March 13, 2006
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posted by elpapacito at 5:28 AM on March 11, 2006