Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi

March 22, 2006 11:24 PM

Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi: Author of the excellent book "Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience" which investigates the phenomenon of the happiness of doing, how the balance between stress/anxiety and slack/boredom effect experience and happiness, and how we can all use it to our advantage.
posted by loquacious (32 comments total)

This, and he, were major parts of our curriculum in leisure studies in college. A major idea was to design a program or event, or participate in such an event, so as to have all of the participants reach that state. The fact that "flow" could be reached through recreation was supposed to be intrinsic motivation and promote feelings of contentment and general well-being.
posted by sara is disenchanted at 11:36 PM on March 22, 2006

Americans are too concerned with being "happy". The point of life isn't happiness, it's to be moral and useful.

Feeling happy is warning sign. It's God's way of letting you know that you're being wasteful and frivolous at best, immoral at worst.

Happy today a portent of guilt tomorrow. Anyone who has felt the "happiness" stuffing down that extra piece of cake, chugging another beer, or sloppy lust-blinded sex with a stranger can tell you what that turns into the next day.

Be strong and sullen. Don't fall for the lie that called "happiness".
posted by orthogonality at 11:36 PM on March 22, 2006

Anyone who has felt the "happiness" stuffing down that extra piece of cake, chugging another beer,

You're confusing pleasure with happiness. Thats not what this post.

Some of the happiest moments in my life were indeed when I felt engaged, or part of something bigger, working towards something I felt to be meaningful. There was no "portent of guilt" involved.
posted by vacapinta at 11:41 PM on March 22, 2006

That should read: "That's not what this post is about." I have a feeling you saw the word "happiness" in the title and then just plonked down your opinion. In the context of this post, words like "fulfillment" may in fact be better.
posted by vacapinta at 11:43 PM on March 22, 2006

Well, we can agree on this much: pleasure is bad too.
posted by orthogonality at 11:43 PM on March 22, 2006

Well, we can agree on this much: pleasure is bad too.

Gee, and what if you become happy or feel pleasure when being moral and useful?
posted by Zombie Dreams at 12:14 AM on March 23, 2006

Well, why should you feel fulfilled? Does the peasant picking the coffee beans that make up your latte feel fulfillment? No, he's just doing his job, trying to keep from starving.

Why should Americans get to whine about being "unfulfilled" in their bourgeois lives? Their parents worked hard at jobs they hated because that's what people do.

It's only since the whiney sixties that people started complaining about being unfulfilled. Get over it. Just do your work and suffer like everyone else and get drunk on the weekend. What makes you any better than anyone else?
posted by orthogonality at 12:15 AM on March 23, 2006

As per the wikipedia, it's "Chick Sent Me High-ee" which should be a poppy boy band's name.

Spent entirely too much time studying this guy in two non-consecutive semesters at college. He's done quite a lot of research, that much I know.
posted by Eideteker at 12:22 AM on March 23, 2006

Hee, hee, this is fun! Everytime someone poses an argument to debunk your claim, you just insert a new word or statement.

One more try.

Well, why should you feel fulfilled? Does the peasant picking the coffee beans that make up your latte feel fulfillment? No, he's just doing his job, trying to keep from starving.

I'm sure there are 'peasants' who do find pleasure in doing so, but the point is moot: just because there are people doing hard work doesn't mean the people who can afford to do a job that's fulfilling and satisfactory shouldn't do so. In fact, as long as nobody suffers from it, I'd see it as doing something moral rather than something immoral.

Why should Americans get to whine about being "unfulfilled" in their bourgeois lives? Their parents worked hard at jobs they hated because that's what people do.

My father works hard at his job he loves. He was offered early retirement, but declined, and will probably keep on working after his retirement if allowed.

If you'd actually read some of the linked to articles, you might have noticed that they're about people getting HAPPY from things they do, deriving PLEASURE from them, not whining about being unfulfilled.

Why do I feel the sudden urge to masturbate?!
posted by Zombie Dreams at 12:30 AM on March 23, 2006

"Well, why should you feel fulfilled? Does the peasant picking the coffee beans that make up your latte feel fulfillment? No, he's just doing his job, trying to keep from starving."...
posted by orthogonality at 3:15 AM EST on March 23 [!]

If Juan Valdez is in the flow of bean picking, presumably he'll be zoned on the rhythmic selection, careful snapping, and deft handling of only the ripest coffee berries on the trees that day, and will be getting such Zen-like satisfaction from the task that the beatific smile he exhibits in every commercial I've seen him in can have no other explanation.
posted by paulsc at 12:31 AM on March 23, 2006

Well, why should you feel fulfilled? Does the peasant picking the coffee beans that make up your latte feel fulfillment? No, he's just doing his job, trying to keep from starving.

Dude, step off! You grumpy old grouper, you murk-dwelling sturgeon of the deep, you ill-fed remora of remorse.

I have plenty of guilt and austerity of my own, thank you, and I'm personally far removed from any sort of typically American mindless gluttony and avarice.

I've lived in a third world country, and have lived with people who have worked their limbs bloody. Even they knew what happiness was, and they probably knew even better how to savor it.

Joy and happiness are just facets of the complex human psyche. Some are more enjoyable then others, and healthier, too.

So, yes. I have a right to desire, seek, obtain, and experience joy and happiness - as far as that right does not directly infringe upon the same rights of others.

The complexity of happiness effects us all, and not just emotionally. Happiness can mean so many things, from contentment and security to humor and mirth to accomplishment and satisfaction.

An "unhappy" society or culture is a sick one. And even a dangerous and deadly one, prone to violence and worthlessness. Prone to greed, and hyperconsumption, malice and destructiveness.

And yes, I would not consider the US, as a whole, to be "happy". A miserable wreck of ill-conceived desires, malfromed intentions, mindless, thoughtless greed intended to provide the un-nourishing simulcra of happiness, and the blighted, hallowed cultural landscape of negativity as a result.

So, feel free to claim misery as your overfilling chalice of woe. Don't be surprised if it drives you into an early grave, or worse, a prolonged life of loneliness and pain.
posted by loquacious at 12:39 AM on March 23, 2006

Sorry if that's a bit on the harsh side, ortho, but damn, man! Am I going to have to start calling you Eeyore, or what?
posted by loquacious at 12:56 AM on March 23, 2006

Happiness is open season on naysayers...a pox on them! May they wallow in the discontent of their stinking, unpleasant auras.

/goes off for beer, cake, and perhaps a little sex....
posted by HuronBob at 1:18 AM on March 23, 2006

Lovely, loquacious.
posted by Wolof at 2:08 AM on March 23, 2006

*would buy loquacious another latte, but should probably wait until tomorrow*
posted by paulsc at 2:26 AM on March 23, 2006

I don't think I've ever had a latte, but I'd take a good espresso pull, Turkish or plain drip brewed black. Fair Trade, preferrably.

Moo in coffee is an abomination best left to heretics who probably shouldn't be drinking it in the first place if they have to adultrate it.


Question: Where do you find your flow?
posted by loquacious at 3:25 AM on March 23, 2006

I quit my job (software development) and, starting April, am in search of flow.

First up, building light fixtures.
posted by parki at 4:07 AM on March 23, 2006

Question: Where do you find your flow?

Working on the Chrysler assembly line 30+ years ago. Certain operations lent themselves to a Zen-like concentration of precise movement and effortless effort.

Writing code. When learning to program, I spent entire 12-14 hour sessions banging out programs, happily lost in my creations.

3D animation. Similar to programming. I would work all day at one job and then animate for another 6-8 hours, and have to force myself to go to bed.

Improvising guitar. I don't play songs so much as take journeys, each one to a different place, by a different route. The trick is to make the journey interesting.

The common tie seems to be the act of creation.
posted by Enron Hubbard at 4:54 AM on March 23, 2006

Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi

The Sigmund Freud of the late 20th century.
posted by mrmojoflying at 5:39 AM on March 23, 2006

our curriculum in leisure studies in college

*snickers*

Oh, and don't mind ortho, he's just being a contrarian. I'm sure he enjoys getting drunk just like anybody else.
posted by languagehat at 5:53 AM on March 23, 2006

Question: Where do you find your flow?

I live for the flow. The best flow ever is the one I get into after writing for about 20 minutes. First 20 mins are purely forced, and after that I can write for hours, and the quality, to my neverending surprise, gets better.

Flow found in lots of other things, many shared with Enron Hubbard, video editing, musical noodling, 2d graphics, computer troubleshooting. Playing fricken computer helpdesk for relatives over the phone can put me there. Easiest way to get into the flow is to amble into something that has the potential to become engrossing. Intentional seeking of the flow will be rebuffed.

My current day job is a flow-killer. It's all task-switching. Argh.
posted by Pliskie at 6:08 AM on March 23, 2006

I have found flow in washing dishes, ortho. We are to find fulfillment in whatever our hand finds to do, Biblically.

For me, I have also found flow in exercising (Spin class is magnificent for that) and in composing and songwriting.

Contentment and happiness have much more to do with us and our inner thought life than in what we are actually doing, most of the time.

And while we are at it, I am feeling gratitude for the cup of coffee I have by my side at the moment-and gratitude for those who picked the coffee beans so I could have it.
posted by konolia at 6:13 AM on March 23, 2006

wait, wait, wait....


wait.

I could have gotten a degree in Leisure Studies? I've wasted my life.

*Lights Film Studies Degree on Fire*
posted by jrb223 at 7:00 AM on March 23, 2006

Can life experience earn me credits towards a degree in Leisure Studies?
posted by bonecrusher at 7:11 AM on March 23, 2006

Previouysly on MetaFilter...

A certain psychologist of Hungarian extraction, Mihaly Csikszentimihaly --sounds like stoned sex-crazed muppet: Me High-ee! Chicks sent me highee!--began by monitoring the activities and emotional states of talented adolescent artists with what became known as experience sampling forms, now available in a new, improved hi tech version. He found people reported the greatest satisfaction when actively involved in a challenging task that stretches abilities, to the extent that time, space, and self-awareness become secondary to the accomplishment of the task. He wrote a book about it, Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience, which flew off the shelves in the Self Help sections of bookstores everywhere--even though there were no easy steps nor Idiots Guide To... included beyond an academic enunciation of the parameters involved: the zone of experience in which Flow existed. [More Within]
posted by y2karl at 1:02 PM PST on October 10, 2003 (22 comments total) [!] Ahem...

posted by y2karl at 7:25 AM on March 23, 2006

Well, thank God I spellchecked the post, at least....
posted by y2karl at 7:27 AM on March 23, 2006

Hey, I know it's a goofy degree; I honestly didn't want to go to college. I just chose a major that would allow me to get my bachelor's as quickly as possible, and that was a field that amounts to municipal park management. I work in the food service industry now, and that certainly doesn't require college-level work. We sure had fun in class though.
posted by sara is disenchanted at 7:30 AM on March 23, 2006

Actually, I am totally sincere when I say I wish I'd gotten a degree in Leisure Studies, it sounds like an interesting approach to take, and a field that can only grow.
posted by jrb223 at 8:56 AM on March 23, 2006

Previously on Ask.MetaFilter: Finding flow in everyday life
posted by sk381 at 9:32 AM on March 23, 2006

This beautiful game is based on Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi's ideas.
posted by treedream at 11:40 AM on March 23, 2006

Can anyone recommend between the original and the more prescriptive version?
posted by danny the boy at 1:44 PM on March 23, 2006

I really love his work, Thanks for posting this, loq.
posted by moonbird at 6:44 PM on March 23, 2006