Comments on: Programming doesn't have to be easy

Programming doesn't have to be easy

Plutor — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:33:44 -0800

Somewhere between theoretical constructs like finite automata and Turing machines and feature-rich programming languages like Perl and C++ lives a world of misfits. These so-called esoteric languages frequently employ obfuscation and fustian as central design goals; but that doesn't mean you can't do some neat (useless) things with them.

By: Plutor

Plutor — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:36:15 -0800

This might have been the most fun I've ever had researching an FPP. Some miscellany I came across:

Most people seem to agree that INTERCAL, created in 1972, was the first esoteric language.
Malbolge is so complex that it has never been proven to be Turing-complete, and the first "Hello, world!" had to be written with a genetic algorithm.
Chef: It took me fifteen minutes to decide this was real. He's created several languages.
Justif is deadly poison. Also from someone who's made more than one

By: youarenothere

youarenothere — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:41:52 -0800

I'd seen some of these before, but Chef is just...amazing. Really awesome post.

By: youarenothere

youarenothere — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:43:15 -0800

This recipe prints the immortal words "Hello world!", in a basically brute force way. It also makes a lot of food for one person.

By: uncle harold

uncle harold — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:45:35 -0800

So you can build a Bistromathic drive with Chef?

By: MasonDixon

MasonDixon — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:57:15 -0800

Fustian? In three straight FPP? "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:57:26 -0800

What's with the "fustian"s today?

By: Joeforking

Joeforking — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:58:58 -0800

3.33, time for fustian.

By: daq

daq — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 08:04:36 -0800

I'm going to jump in on the fustian posting, because it bothers me, and makes me want to cause physical harm to people near me. Also, it would appear that it is being used correctly in each of the posts, which is suprising as hell. Of course that's asuming they were referring to the use of gibberish, versus the definition meaning a cotton blend. Because I don't think Malbolge has anything to do with cotton blends. I'm just sayin.

By: Plutor

Plutor — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 08:07:02 -0800

I can't believe I didn't link to ETA, the language that inspired me to make this post. I started work on an ETA quine, but then when I discovered someone had already done it, and it wasn't exactly pleasant, I abandoned it.

By: wanderingmind

wanderingmind — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 08:15:03 -0800

My favorite esolang by far is Befunge, which was aptly described once as a cross between Forth and Lemmings.

By: OmieWise

OmieWise — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 08:22:16 -0800

Yeah, Chef is pretty cool. I wouldn't want to eat from it, though.

By: Gamblor

Gamblor — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 08:35:40 -0800

Fustian? In three straight FPP? What's with the "fustian"s today? Hah, I was just thinking the exact same thing.

By: Jofus

Jofus — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 08:38:32 -0800

Plutor - this is my nomination for post of the year.

By: Skygazer

Skygazer — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 08:46:11 -0800

It's been downhill for me programming wise since BASIC in High School. I'm more intrigued by the fussy Fustian hijinks that began at 10:33 AM. Spill the beans you dastardly scoundrels.

By: Ryvar

Ryvar — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 08:54:21 -0800

This has my vote for post of the year as well - I had not heard of Malbolge before today, and my life was not complete.

By: punkbitch

punkbitch — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 08:58:01 -0800

which does this site employ?

By: Ryvar

Ryvar — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:02:02 -0800

PHP?

By: casconed

casconed — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:08:26 -0800

i think it's time for an FPP on Fustian, Operation Fustian, or similar...

By: beth

beth — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:10:56 -0800

These are some great, wacked-out fun. I ran across Wierd and a few of its cousins several years ago and got a great kick out of them (I can't program it myself but I appreciate the aesthetic). Wierd is a graphical language developed by Chris Pressey, Ben Olmstead, and John Colagioia, in 1997. In Wierd, there are only two symbols: whitespace and everything else. Non-whitespace characters are followed in lines (starting in the top left corner, going southeast), and instructions are given by every turn made to the right: I always thought languages like this could make infuriating components of a vicious cryptographic chain or something. Security through obscurity to the umpteenth power.

By: yeolcoatl

yeolcoatl — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:23:25 -0800

I have to put in an endorsement for Piet.

By: brett

brett — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:26:58 -0800

I'll throw in the Shakespeare programming language as my favorite.

By: ZenMasterThis

ZenMasterThis — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:46:43 -0800

APL, anyone?

By: blue_beetle

blue_beetle — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:48:44 -0800

You people are insane.

By: reventlov

reventlov — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:22:46 -0800

I can't decide whether I'm proud or ashamed. BrainF*** is my favorite minimalist language. Befunge is my favorite fun language. Piet looks cool, because its programs look cool. (And I really shouldn't have any credit for Wierd; I really didn't do any work on it.)

By: knave

knave — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:30:42 -0800

Fustianity aside, this is a day of synchronicities or something... I read a page about a "hello world" program written in malbolge years ago, before being on Metafilter. The guy used genetic/evolutionary approaches to find a way to write the hello world program. Now, I click on the malbolge link and see that the guy who wrote it was none other than 'andrew cooke'.

By: graventy

graventy — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:54:13 -0800

NEEEEERDS!! NEEEEERDS!! Awesome post.

By: mad judge pickles

mad judge pickles — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:24:20 -0800

High-level languages are so 1970s. Assembly language is so 1960s. Instruction sets are so 1950s. Transport Triggered Architecture is where it's at.

By: Zed_Lopez

Zed_Lopez — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:00:54 -0800

My favorites not yet mentioned: Unlambda, inspired by the Lambda Calculus... but omitting the lambda operation. HQ9++ in which you can write several common programs with one character.

By: Zed_Lopez

Zed_Lopez — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:07:14 -0800

...not yet mentioned... (Actually looks at links in FPP. Oops.)

By: Chunder

Chunder — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:01:20 -0800

(=< `$9]75yxz7wt.3,+o/o'k%$h'~d|#z@b=`{^Lx8%$Xmrkpohm-kNi;gsedcba`_^]\[ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA@?>=< ;:9876543s+oolm/i> Mmmkay - that's me put off immediately!! Is programming supposed to be fun? Useful? What's the point of a language that takes all that nonsense just to write "HEllO WORld"? Duh!?

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:06:12 -0800

I blame Neil Gaiman for spreading "fustian" around.

By: MarkO

MarkO — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:44:34 -0800

This is so 4/20.

By: Wolfdog

Wolfdog — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:23:25 -0800

You've got to give some respect to Mathematica, where you'll eventually find yourself issuing something like the following perfectly legit command: #^%%!&/@%

By: arialblack

arialblack — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 22:02:04 -0800

BF's cousin, Ook ! ( Ook? Ook. )

By: kenko

kenko — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:16:23 -0800

I once wrote an unlambda interpreter in Python. Good god was it slow.

By: kenko

kenko — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:17:18 -0800

The andrew cooke of acooke.org isn't our own, is it?

By: kenko

kenko — Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:21:27 -0800

I also once wrote a python module that allowed you to write code like this: (Def, 'cleanup', (Lambda, filelist, (Begin, (Lambda, (Def, 'cleanup-h', (Lambda, i, (If, (Lambda, ('!=', (Val, 'i'), (Val, 'lim'))), (Begin, (Lambda, (If, (Lambda, ('==', (Val, 'i'), (Val, 'lim'))), (EarlyReturn, None))), (LCall, 'os.remove', (Getitem, 'filelist', (Get, 'i'))), (LCall, 'cleanup-h', ('+', (Val, 'i'), 1))))))) (SetGet, 'lim', (LCall, len, filelist)), (LCall, 'cleanup-h', 0)))) This was before python included proper nested scopes support, which means that (given that cleanup-h actually worked as intended) it had capabilities regular python didn't!

By: Plutor

Plutor — Fri, 21 Apr 2006 04:28:16 -0800

kenko: "The andrew cooke of acooke.org isn't our own, is it?" Huh, it looks like it is. How about that.