Get a Life, Zacarias

May 3, 2006 2:54 PM

No Death Sentence for '20th Skyjacker' Moussaoui(he Newsfiltered), and as he was led from the courtroom, the defendant, who had looked for the last few weeks like he was campaigning for martyrdom, clapped his hands and said “America, you lost. I won.” (I had severely underestimated this character's skill at Political Theater) In spite of the final spit-in-the-face-of-the-US, MSNBC.com's Unscientific Instapoll has 51% saying it was the right decision, while CNN.com's Poll says 63%, and Foxnews.com's poll... is about tax cuts. Disclaimer: Yes, I do some writing for the Entertainment section at MSNBC.com, but the News department does not know I exist and doesn't want to. And newssite instapolls are so-o-o Web 1.0, I know, but still, what's with the non-outrage?
posted by wendell (76 comments total)

Okay, why does there need to be outrage about the verdict? I have a case of 'meh' about it myself. It's been dragging on so long that it's hard to care in any case.
posted by Dipsomaniac at 2:57 PM on May 3, 2006

It means he's not a martyr. That sounds good, frankly.

We already have enough problems with martyrs.
posted by MythMaker at 3:04 PM on May 3, 2006

it's funny that he thinks we won. he might as well have received the death penalty. what does he think is going to happen to him as soon as he gets put in with the general population in prison?
posted by matt_od at 3:04 PM on May 3, 2006

What's with the fucking editorializing in MeFi posts? And like Dipsomaniac, I don't even know what you think we should be outraged about. It seems like a good verdict to me. Note to wendell: this is not a standup gig. Thank you.
posted by languagehat at 3:04 PM on May 3, 2006

I don't think the public really perceives him as bearing responsibility for 9/11. I mean, the guy is clearly a fuck-up, he was in prison at the time, and the government's theory of his guilt was ponderous at best. Now, if bin Laden had avoided the death penalty... But I don't think that bin Laden in the U.S. justice system is something we'll ever have to worry about.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:04 PM on May 3, 2006

What's with the non-outrage? Moussaoui is a crackpot minor player, delusional and grandiose, who even the Al Qaeda couldn't stand to have around. Osama bin Laden -- someone may remember him, I guess he was John Kerry's running mate or something -- Moussaoui ain't. As much as the Bush administration would like pretend like this guy is one of the Big Cheeses of Islamo-Nazism or whatever, he's more like those guys down on Haight Street who think they're the Grand Wazoo of the Illuminati. He may have not-not-prevented the deaths of thousands of people, which deserves a life sentence (and imagine how much they'll love him in the prison showers if they can get him to shut up long enough) but if this is the 9/11 Trial of the Decade, it's pathetic.

Where's Osama? Hiding under an oil barrel.
posted by digaman at 3:06 PM on May 3, 2006

Well, if they killed him, he would've got 72 plump breasted, doe eyed virgins... The punishment was obvious to begin with.
posted by wumpus at 3:07 PM on May 3, 2006

I'm glad he didn't get the death penalty since I am against it in general. I also don't care who wendell does some writing for, but I imagine it is important for him to let us know how important he is.
posted by Eekacat at 3:07 PM on May 3, 2006

No martyrdom, which was exactly what he wanted.

'nuff said.

I would have been more outraged if he'd gotten the death penalty.
posted by OhPuhLeez at 3:08 PM on May 3, 2006

That's how i'd have voted.
posted by empath at 3:09 PM on May 3, 2006

The death penalty is for pussies anyway.
posted by StrasbourgSecaucus at 3:09 PM on May 3, 2006

matt_od

what makes you think he's gonna end up in gen pop? has there been any indication of that?
posted by pruner at 3:12 PM on May 3, 2006

It means he's not a martyr. That sounds good, frankly.

We already have enough problems with martyrs.

Precisely.
posted by rollbiz at 3:13 PM on May 3, 2006

The death penalty is for pussies anyway.

Kill the cats!
posted by soiled cowboy at 3:13 PM on May 3, 2006

Life as a pawn for the American legal system? Ouch.
posted by buzzman at 3:14 PM on May 3, 2006

If the deliberations were conducted without influence and judicial proceedure was followed correctly, then a verdict is what it is. Outrage is misplaced, if you simply dislike the outcome.
posted by pieisexactlythree at 3:15 PM on May 3, 2006

But I don't think that bin Laden in the U.S. justice system is something we'll ever have to worry about.

Not after this verdict at any rate.

In any case, it makes the general American public look smarter than the administration by not allowing him to turn himself into a symbol. I'm down with that.
posted by Ryvar at 3:15 PM on May 3, 2006

if i kill somebody i am definitely doing it as a muslim.
posted by StrasbourgSecaucus at 3:15 PM on May 3, 2006

Seems vaguely sensible.
posted by Artw at 3:17 PM on May 3, 2006

he'll die in prison. It's the same verdict if you take a big picture view, wendell.
posted by mathowie at 3:19 PM on May 3, 2006

"America, you lost. I won."

He would've said this no matter what the verdict was.
posted by scody at 3:21 PM on May 3, 2006

what's with the non-outrage?

maybe people are just outraged out ... or saving it for bigger things
posted by pyramid termite at 3:21 PM on May 3, 2006

Wendell, GYOBF
posted by Optamystic at 3:22 PM on May 3, 2006

I'm pleasantly surprised* and puzzled at the verdict. The guy's an admitted terrorist, but he's also a nut and even the Al Qaeda guys we tortured said he was too much of a fuckup to be involved in the September 11 attacks. I'm not sure why the jury said he was eligible for the death penalty and then didn't apply it.

* I'm against the death penalty in general, and against it in this case in particular because I'm completely convinced he wasn't involved in the plot and I thought he'd get the death penalty due to the emotions of the case, not the facts.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:22 PM on May 3, 2006

Outrage.
posted by flabdablet at 3:25 PM on May 3, 2006

Wendell, GYOBF

Sorry, what does that stand for again?
posted by ktoad at 3:38 PM on May 3, 2006

Eekacat, I was just pre-empting self-linking accusations, not bragging. I got that out of my system when quonsar posted my FIRST article there in '03.

Languagehat, I thought you'd know by now that I ALWAYS write like I'm doing bad standup, no matter how serious the subject. As for editorializing, I just thought the "meh" reaction in the newspolls was part of the story and just overexplained it, as usual. And I had really expected the anti-Islamists to have already gotten loud and shrill and that would've reflected in the totally unscientific poll results which are basically useless except at reflecting who's being the most loud and shrill, but saying that would have REALLY been editorializing, and thanks for giving me an excuse to write it here.

Optamystic, I got my own blog, called wendellfuckwit.com, but I just try to write funny things there, and this is just stange, not funny.

And matt, that 'big picture' is my view entirely. In fact, by not giving him an execution date, we're saving ourselves the trouble of having to ratchet up anti-terrorism protection on that day. I certainly did not expect outrage from the MeFi community, and was certainly not outraged myself, just curiously bemused. Maybe you and hatman are so used to editorializing, you didn't get my bemused curiosity. Do we have a tag for that now, like the sarcasm tag?
posted by wendell at 3:40 PM on May 3, 2006

oops sorry...
<sarcasm>Do we have a tag for that now, like the sarcasm tag?</sarcasm>
posted by wendell at 3:42 PM on May 3, 2006

He was enjoying the attention a little too much. Prison will do him good.

Optamystic, I got my own blog, called wendellfuckwit.com

Now we know what you do for a living and where your blog is. I admire your selfpromotion, but perhaps you can stfu about yourself now.

=-)
posted by justgary at 3:48 PM on May 3, 2006

this WAS political theater and a show trial on our part--he was not involved, they never proved he was, and those who were involved said he wasn't involved. It's ridiculous, but the fact that he even got a trial while many others sit in Guantanamo and in secret prisons elsewhere without any trial or sentence is appalling.
posted by amberglow at 3:49 PM on May 3, 2006

unfortunately, we don't yet know where wendell's mom stands on the matter.
posted by b1tr0t at 3:50 PM on May 3, 2006

Could have gone either way... good game, eh, I mean verdict.
posted by j-urb at 3:51 PM on May 3, 2006

Digaman is right. If the 9/11 hijackers story was a movie Moussaoui would be the whacky Jerry Lewis comedy relief. He was a disturbed wannabe.

Go to the FOX-News boards, people were calling him a "murderer" and "killer" but he never killed anybody. He was our scapegoat because he was the only one we had caught. Lucky for Johnny Walker Lindh, huh?
posted by tkchrist at 3:53 PM on May 3, 2006

"America, you lost. I won."

Quite the opposite in fact.
posted by movilla at 3:57 PM on May 3, 2006

The verdict reminds me of the old joke about the masochist who knelt in front of the sadist and said "Beat me!"

The sadist said "No."
posted by rdone at 3:57 PM on May 3, 2006

Will he think he won in 60 years time when he is still in prison?
posted by A189Nut at 4:02 PM on May 3, 2006

damn, now I need a <self-effacing> tag, because, justgary, if I were selfpromoting, there would've been links, and I wouldn't have munged my own blog's address.

b1tr0t, you didn't read ALL of MetaFilter today (like the "Saddest Things" thread where I talked about my mother's death). But she was a loyal Republican Womens Club member; if she were alive today, I'd have been better informed. But I still wouldn't have mentioned her unless she had a blog.

tkchrist, I was hoping to avoid having to go the FOXNews boards...

rdone, you win.

damn, now I'm selfmoderating the thread... and I'm talking to myself... now all I need is to self-medicate and I'll have everything covered.
posted by wendell at 4:07 PM on May 3, 2006

He would've said this no matter what the verdict was.

This bears repeating. He would have insisted the he won if we showered him in flowers and gave him the keys to Disneyland. He would have insisted that he won if we had executed him on the spot.

So, he won. Big deal. He's in prison and I'm not. "I can step in, I can step out. I can step in..."
posted by djeo at 4:17 PM on May 3, 2006

...what's with the non-outrage?

The government's case was that because he was in jail and had the opportunity to nark on his friends and opted instead to take advantage of his rights to keep quiet, he helped them commit the murders. Yes he could have given up his rights and warned them. However he had the right to shut up and let it all happen, and took advantage of that right. I'd be outraged if the jury bought the government's BS claim that not talking is akin to murder and deserves to be punished with murder.
posted by pwb503 at 4:21 PM on May 3, 2006

Yeah, Zecharaias. You won. I'm going home to an air-conditioned apartment with a fidge full of beer, a nice hot sparerib dinner and a beautiful woman. You're going to a tiny hot cell in a prison full of people who want your head.

Enjoy your victory, you simple motherfucker.
posted by jonmc at 4:22 PM on May 3, 2006

I was shocked this was the verdict, but it was a good shocked. Putting him to death would have been a terrible move.
posted by dial-tone at 4:32 PM on May 3, 2006

I'm going home to an air-conditioned apartment with a fidge full of beer, a nice hot sparerib dinner and a beautiful woman.

Lesee: you gotcher alcohol, you gotcher swine, you gotcher non-burka beclad lady...WHAT YOU CALL HOME ZECHARAIASBO CALLS HELL.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 4:52 PM on May 3, 2006

Spareribs can be beef
women only have to wear burkas outside the apartment

some muslims say beer is allowed, as long as you don't get drunk, which still others define as basically being on the floor
posted by cell divide at 4:58 PM on May 3, 2006

it's funny that he thinks we won. he might as well have received the death penalty. what does he think is going to happen to him as soon as he gets put in with the general population in prison?

Because if there's one thing Federal Prison Inmates love, it's Amercia!
posted by delmoi at 5:08 PM on May 3, 2006

The prosecutor based his whole death penalty case on the fact that Moussaoui lied to the police. No wonder the jury chose life.
posted by caddis at 5:19 PM on May 3, 2006

Well, it might be a bit more expensive in the long run, I don't know, but he's going to be pounded in the ass once the inmates figure out who he is. My guess is that he'll do the old bedsheet hanging ritual to get to those virgins.
posted by skeeter1 at 5:26 PM on May 3, 2006

He's going to be in solitary confinement.
posted by y2karl at 5:39 PM on May 3, 2006

So, how long before he levels accusations of torture and *gasp* Koran defacement?
posted by Krrrlson at 5:40 PM on May 3, 2006

He'll go to a supermax prison, where he'll be in solitary. If we aren't going to oblige him with "martyrdom" via lethal injection, we are certainly not going to let him become a global symbol of America's brutal prison system . Our inability to protect him from harm during his incarceration would just become more grist for our opponents.
posted by Chrischris at 6:12 PM on May 3, 2006

Spareribs can be beef
women only have to wear burkas outside the apartment

some muslims say beer is allowed, as long as you don't get drunk, which still others define as basically being on the floor

quiet you
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 6:21 PM on May 3, 2006

Good. The death penalty is an abomination. This guy is a nasty sicko for sure but...err.. hang on... he didn't actually kill anyone, right? It's outrageous the death penalty was even considered an option for him.
posted by Decani at 6:46 PM on May 3, 2006

Because if there's one thing Federal Prison Inmates love, it's Amercia!
posted by delmoi at 8:08 PM EST on May 3 [!]

Federal prison inmates may be criminals, but criminals don't necessarily approve of other types of criminals. Sex offenders who go after children, for example, are universally beaten and despised by their fellow inmates. Just because a person is a convicted criminal doesn't mean that they approve of every other kind of criminal. As for Zacarias Moussaoui, I think he's going to spend a long, unpleasant life in the near solitary confinement of a Supermax. More fitting that the death penalty, in a way. He wanted to go out with a bang. Instead, he'll vanish into an anonymous prison. No final death row speeches, no martyrdom. Just decades and decades of emptiness, only to die of old age 50 years from now when few will even remember his name. It's his worst nightmare, I think; to become irrelevant and forgotten.
posted by unreason at 6:48 PM on May 3, 2006

my spareribs are pork
I am drunk
You try to put my woman in a burkha and you'll be walking funny tomorrow

I repeat: enjoy your victory, you simple motherfucker.
posted by jonmc at 6:49 PM on May 3, 2006

I'm going home to an air-conditioned apartment with a fidge full of beer, a nice hot sparerib dinner and a beautiful woman.

That's a pretty big fridge.
posted by Ritchie at 6:54 PM on May 3, 2006

Federal prison inmates may be criminals, but criminals don't necessarily approve of other types of criminals. Sex offenders who go after children, for example, are universally beaten and despised by their fellow inmates.

Yeah, but my point is that while they might not like child molesters, they probably are not going to have a problem with someone who was involved in the biggest attack on the very thing that's taken away their freedom: the American government, particularly the federal government, as he'll be in a federal pen.

Plus there are usually lots of Muslim converts in prison, for whom this guy would be a hero.
posted by delmoi at 6:56 PM on May 3, 2006

Pathetics, americans are definitely pathetics
posted by zouhair at 7:01 PM on May 3, 2006

Plus there are usually lots of Muslim converts in prison, for whom this guy would be a hero.

Because all Muslims love terrorists, right? God help him if there's anybody in that prison who had a relative in the towers.
posted by jonmc at 7:09 PM on May 3, 2006

with someone who was involved in the biggest attack on the very thing that's taken away their freedom: the American government, particularly the federal government

Except that they weren't attacking only the federal government, they were attacking a lot of ordinary people. Just because someone is in prison, it does not necessarily follow that they hate their country.

Plus there are usually lots of Muslim converts in prison, for whom this guy would be a hero

That doesn't follow at all. There are lots of Muslim converts in prison, but being a Muslim certainly doesn't have to mean supporting terror.
posted by unreason at 7:09 PM on May 3, 2006

MetaFilter: enjoy your victory, you simple motherfucker.

(actually, that line was more appropriate for Mission Accomplished Day...)
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:33 PM on May 3, 2006

No martyrdom, which was exactly what he wanted.

Klingon: Wait. You said you would kill me.

Kirk: I lied.
posted by bwg at 7:41 PM on May 3, 2006

he didn't actually kill anyone, right? It's outrageous the death penalty was even considered an option for him.

IANAL, but from what I understand, being an accomplice to a crime generally nets you the same penalty as the people who actually committed it, right? (I don't know if this is a universal to U.S. law, or a state-by-state thing, I'll admit.) Assuming he actually knew the 9/11 attacks were going down, that pretty much makes him an accomplice.

Not a big fan of the death penalty, BTW. Just not sure about your line of legal thinking here...
posted by Cyrano at 8:15 PM on May 3, 2006

This was exactly the right decision. Giving him the death penalty would have made him a martyr, which is exactly what he wanted. Better he should rot in jail for a long time.

They'll probably feed him pork and he'll get raped repeatedly.
posted by mike3k at 8:16 PM on May 3, 2006

(give him a taste of the pork sword, so to speak?)
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:34 PM on May 3, 2006

Kind of what amberglow and others have said. He should be locked up for life, but the whole case shows that on the legal front, the Fed has its head up its ass. It was obvious even to a non-lawyer like me that Moussouai decided all he could do was further screw up the facts surrounding 9/11--he claims he worked with the shoe-bomber, that he knew lots more people in cells than he did, etc. Not only did Federal prosecutors almost fuck this slam-dunk up, they took pride in all the so-called "intelligence" they were getting from him.

This administration allowed 9/11 to happen in the first place. Don't expect them to deftly handle the on-going war on terror any better, at least not at this rate.
posted by bardic at 11:14 PM on May 3, 2006

I think he wanted to kill people, but he's such a barking lunatic that not even Al-Queda could find a use for him.

For him, this has been the fun part: center stage, all eyes on him. That will change soon- he's headed for solitary confinement.
posted by Jatayu das at 4:04 AM on May 4, 2006

jonmc : I'm going home to an air-conditioned apartment with a fidge full of beer, a nice hot sparerib dinner and a beautiful woman.

Ritchie : That's a pretty big fridge.

Sir, I believe you misspelled "fidge". Those things are huge.
posted by kcds at 4:16 AM on May 4, 2006

You can still be a martyr just by being in prison.

They should have sent him to the nut house. No chance of parole, and a clear message to any one listening of just how seriously we take his ramblings.
posted by IndigoJones at 5:10 AM on May 4, 2006

Cyrano, Ianal, Federal Death Penalty regulations do not specifically mention whether an accomplice to a capital crime is eligible for the same punishment, but I imagine there was sufficient precedent, otherwise it never would have been considered.

Which is beside the point, since trying to apply the death penalty was pretty clearly a political move anyway. I think the jury did the right thing. I'm in favor of the death penalty under some circumstances, but the man didnt do anything. He may have known about it, but he didnt plan the crime, assist in its execution, or aid any of the terrorists who carried it out. Seems a no-brainer to me, unless your flexing your political posture.
posted by elendil71 at 5:49 AM on May 4, 2006

You try to put my woman in a burkha and you'll be walking funny tomorrow

I think we've got our next Lee Greenwood hit right here...
posted by AJaffe at 6:14 AM on May 4, 2006

Plus there are usually lots of Muslim converts in prison, for whom this guy would be a hero.

You don't know many Muslims, do you?
posted by jamesonandwater at 6:32 AM on May 4, 2006

I think we've got our next Lee Greenwood hit right here...

Hey, it'd be my woman who would fuck the guy up, not me.
posted by jonmc at 6:49 AM on May 4, 2006

my spareribs are pork
I am drunk
You try to put my woman in a burkha and you'll be walking funny tomorrow

I admire the sentiment, jonmc, but that's a really lousy haiku.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:04 PM on May 4, 2006

This administration allowed 9/11 to happen in the first place. Don't expect them to deftly handle the on-going war on terror any better, at least not at this rate.

Speaking of that, Kristen Breitwieser (a 9/11 widow) on Hardball, made an excellent point about the prosecutor's case: ...I would appreciate someone asking either Senator Biden or former Mayor Giuliani, if their standard for death is withholding information from the FBI that could have prevented the 9/11 attacks—how then are we excusing FBI agents Maltbie and Frasca, who were accused, or allegedly accused in the Moussaoui penalty phase itself, of being criminally negligent with regard to giving a FISA warrant.

How would you explain George Tenet, who withheld information about two of the 9/11 hijackers for 18 months from the FBI—information that certainly would have gone a long way into preventing those attacks. And I‘d like to know, where are we drawing the line here, what is the threshold, and why are we not holding those types of people in our own government accountable?

And I think they‘re going to have a long of explaining to do in Congress and at the White House when that information flows to the American people and the American people start asking similar questions. ...
posted by amberglow at 3:57 PM on May 4, 2006

They did the right thing here. I was surprised and unexpectedly cheered by the decision. He didn't kill anyone, and he's obviously batshitinsane. He's just a scapegoat.

If he hadn't pled guilty to everything, I'm not even sure they could have _convicted_ him of most of the charges. He might have gotten only 10 years or so if he'd fought.

From my perspective, locking him up for life is the best possible outcome. I don't even wish for him to be killed or raped in prison. Yeah, he's an evil bastard, but he's an INSANE evil bastard. Tormenting the mentally ill for BEING mentally ill is just as wrong as, well, killing them.

His defense team, given what they had to work with, did a brilliant job, and my hat is off to them.
posted by Malor at 3:58 PM on May 4, 2006

My impression of the SuperMax prisons is that one is held in a something like a concrete dorm room. If Moussaoui is going to be held in solitary/isolation I'm guessing he won't see anyone other than maybe a guard or two. I think the cells are all enclosed (not with one wall of bars like on Barney Miller) with a vertical slit in the opposite wall which shows some natural light, yet is designed in such a way that one cannot see the sky itself.
posted by blueberry at 5:58 PM on May 4, 2006

Yes, the supermax prisons are that bad. Death would be better.
posted by caddis at 4:16 AM on May 5, 2006