Comments on: Guns linked to testosterone

Guns linked to testosterone

445supermag — Tue, 09 May 2006 20:45:06 -0800

Study shows that just handling a gun increases testosterone levels in men.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:01:27 -0800

This is my rifle, this is my gun...

By: telstar

telstar — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:01:39 -0800

What about my....Loooooove Guuuuuuuun!

By: IshmaelGraves

IshmaelGraves — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:03:43 -0800

Well, that's a surprise. The hot sauce bit is interesting, though. The article is frustratingly oblique. What was this supposed to demonstrate? Maybe they liked hot sauce and handling guns made them feel generous. Here's the NYT article cited in the UPI piece. The journal listed here as the venue for this research doesn't list any such article on Blackwell's site. Perhaps it's forthcoming?

By: loquacious

loquacious — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:05:29 -0800

Eponysterical!

By: fshgrl

fshgrl — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:06:03 -0800

Well that explains my boyfriend.

By: MonkeySaltedNuts

MonkeySaltedNuts — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:06:23 -0800

The paper's name is "Guns, Testosterone, and Aggression" but I havn't been able to find an online link, so I have no idea what they controled for or compared against. I wonder if they tried a dangerous task - like say catching 10 scorpions in a large cage and placing them in smaller cages - if this would raise testosterone. It may just be that guns are protypically dangerous. Danger raises testosterone. And testosterone raises aggression (upping the got sauce for strangers).

By: longsleeves

longsleeves — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:09:25 -0800

Fight or flight. Danger, Will Robinson!

By: 445supermag

445supermag — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:12:30 -0800

I found this study on caffeine and markmanship on pubmed, the abstract says they also measured testosterone, but not the results.

By: iceberg273

iceberg273 — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:23:00 -0800

The paper should be published in the July 2006 issue of Psychological Science, I believe.

By: keswick

keswick — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:23:14 -0800

Happiness is a warm gun. (bang bang shoot shoot)

By: schroedinger

schroedinger — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:23:40 -0800

This thread is so ripe for innuendo I don't know where to start!

By: nickyskye

nickyskye — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:27:56 -0800

Have Gun, Will ~~Travel~~ Tabasco.

By: wumpus

wumpus — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:28:04 -0800

schroedinger, sometimes a gun is just a gun.

By: scaryblackdeath

scaryblackdeath — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:30:02 -0800

Barney drinks. "Hey! Where's my inflated sense of self-esteem?" He fishes around in his pockets, and pulls out his gun. "Aaah. THERE'S my inflated sense of self-esteem."

By: loquacious

loquacious — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:32:16 -0800

This thread is so ripe for innuendo I don't know where to start! Shoot first, old son.

By: Ryvar

Ryvar — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:33:09 -0800

Very interesting. This is one of those studies where cause and effect arguments can get truly tied into knots. Would be interesting to find out about the familiarity level with guns of the participants in both groups prior to the test, and setup a second set of experiments that test for a second variable based upon that. Namely, use four groups - one group with little firearms background with Mousetrap, a second with little firearms background handling the guns, a third with extensive firearms background with Mousetrap, and a fourth with extensive firearms background handling the guns. Is there a relationship between firearms familiarity and general aggression regardless of the circumstances as tested with the hot sauce? Do people who are experienced with firearms experience a diminished testosterone increase, (do they have a higher baseline to begin with?) or perhaps an enhanced one (anticipation)? It seems like you could answer a ton of questions by checking for that second variable.

By: schroedinger

schroedinger — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:35:35 -0800

. . . and sometimes it's a big black dick.

By: MonkeySaltedNuts

MonkeySaltedNuts — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:36:40 -0800

I wonder if they asked the subjects if they had ever killed anything with a gun - kitten, bunny, deer, human, etc. I've watched parts of a few hunting shows on cable and some of the participants seem to get very excited (if you know what I mean) about ambushing animals.

By: moonbiter

moonbiter — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:41:59 -0800

The hot sauce bit is interesting, though. The article is frustratingly oblique. What was this supposed to demonstrate? Aggression. More hot sauce == more aggression. I wonder if they controlled for gun size... .

By: drstein

drstein — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:44:57 -0800

Pretty much anything that could equal "blowing stuff up" raises testosterone in men. IE, some of the things that amp me up are: * Firing up the BBQ * Lighting stuff on fire * Driving fast in my Porsche * Gawking at hot chicks in a club * Skiiing * Soccer * Most other sports Maybe men are just testosterone laden creatures. That's what I think. /me doesn't really own a Porsche.

By: po

po — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:54:04 -0800

*ponder* I'm a female, and I get kinda amped by guns. They should try it with women and see what happens.

By: b1tr0t

b1tr0t — Tue, 09 May 2006 21:56:40 -0800

Does this experiment work with people who have only ever used a gun to play Nintendo's Duck Hunt game?

By: jcking77

jcking77 — Tue, 09 May 2006 22:00:45 -0800

Yet another "File under 'No Shit' " Study.

By: ryoshu

ryoshu — Tue, 09 May 2006 22:08:07 -0800

Maybe men are just testosterone laden creatures.

Ha! As if! I wonder what the results would be if the choice was between a game of Hungry Hungry Hippos and a power drill? Perhaps Chutes and Ladders vs. a 454 small block?

By: MonkeySaltedNuts

MonkeySaltedNuts — Tue, 09 May 2006 22:12:04 -0800

What's with: "Take apart the game or the gun and write directions for assembly and disassembly." Did they preselect for men that are familiar with breaking down a gun? I'm fairly mechanical and while I've had near zero contact with guns I could probably figure out what to do. However I know many of my bretheren and sisten are mechanical klutzs and would be more likely to injure themselves than succeed.

By: 517

517 — Tue, 09 May 2006 22:49:41 -0800

If handling guns raises testosterone levels in men I wonder what raises estrogen levels.

By: Tryptophan-5ht

Tryptophan-5ht — Tue, 09 May 2006 22:59:44 -0800

wait, they were given a choice between the game and the gun? maybe the same kind of assholes who would put in more tobasco would also choose the gun?

By: First Post

First Post — Tue, 09 May 2006 23:03:20 -0800

Mama said a pistol was the devil's right hand.

By: furiousthought

furiousthought — Tue, 09 May 2006 23:41:45 -0800

Either the sauce they used was a damn sight stronger than Tabasco or this is the kind of study that's just not feasible in Texas, because I just drank a small cup of water with a drop, then five drops, of the habanero (the things the internet will make one do at night) and that wasn't just painless, that was practically undetectable. Me, I'd put in the whole thing, whether they gave me kittens to play with or a WWII flak emplacement.

By: trondant

trondant — Wed, 10 May 2006 00:15:32 -0800

No measurement of adrenaline?

By: MonkeySaltedNuts

MonkeySaltedNuts — Wed, 10 May 2006 00:16:13 -0800

via boingboing: Women can tell if men like babies by seeing pix of their faces Men's faces give off subtle visual cues about their testosterone levels and the degree to which they like children, and women can detect these signs from photos, though they don't know what cues communicate these factors to them:

James Roney at the University of California, Santa Barbara, US, and his colleagues asked 39 undergraduate men to look at pairs of pictures each consisting of a photo of an adult and a photo of an infant. The men were asked which photo they preferred. Researchers also took saliva samples from the male volunteers to determine their testosterone levels. Each man was then asked to maintain a neutral expression while researchers photographed his face. Then, 29 female undergraduates rated the photographed male faces according to how much they believed the men liked children. Researchers found that women could often correctly guess which men preferred the infant photos.

Link, Update: Avi sez, "The Roney research paper is available for download here."

By: redteam

redteam — Wed, 10 May 2006 00:37:18 -0800

Schlongs.

By: pax digita

pax digita — Wed, 10 May 2006 03:25:44 -0800

It may just be that guns are protypically dangerous. In my experience with firearms, the real problem is the ammunition. As for the weapons themselves, the only problem I've had is the occasional blood blister when dissasembling a balky .45 and getting my finger pinched by the slide lock. The rounds, on the other hand, can make wide, bloody holes in people and other living things.

By: pax digita

pax digita — Wed, 10 May 2006 03:31:33 -0800

By: tim_in_oz

tim_in_oz — Wed, 10 May 2006 03:40:58 -0800

in gun talk, I believe that's known as a double-tap, pax digita

By: slimepuppy

slimepuppy — Wed, 10 May 2006 03:43:36 -0800

Study shows that just handling ~~a gun~~ boobies increases testosterone levels in men. As proved by Science. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go point the pink pistol at the porcelain firing range.

By: furtive

furtive — Wed, 10 May 2006 03:56:51 -0800

pax digita that was a rather flippant dismissal. To a person who's never used a gun, even an unloaded one is dangerous to a certain point. Maybe that's why it's called a weapon irregardless of whether it has bullets or not. I'd speculate that the lack of familiarity, uncomfortableness or nervousness generated by the person who has to handle the weapon is the main factor in raising testosterone levels. I'm willing to bet that someone out there has already done a study that shows testosterone levels increase when a male is made nervous, uncomfortable or thrown into an unfamiliar environment. Getting back to what MonkeySaltedNuts I'd be quite curious to see if the same thing happens using other objects which we all know to be dangerous. I'm even more curious what the results would be if they tried the same experiment on women since they also generate testosterone.

By: cavalier

cavalier — Wed, 10 May 2006 04:27:07 -0800

po:They should try it with women and see what happens Quick, call the IDF!!! (earlier thread on that link..) Gonna be saying 'this is my rifle, this is my gun' all day long now.. there goes my harassment suit... kthx

By: spazzm

spazzm — Wed, 10 May 2006 04:33:17 -0800

MonkeySaltedNuts: It may just be that guns are protypically dangerous. Danger raises testosterone. It does? Are you sure you're not confusing testosterone with adrenaline?

By: jfuller

jfuller — Wed, 10 May 2006 04:59:44 -0800

> 454 small block? Somebody's bored a small block out to 454? The metal left in the casting is an imaginary number, right?

By: runkelfinker

runkelfinker — Wed, 10 May 2006 05:20:02 -0800

This explains why I've been getting so much action since I went to the firing range last month...

By: unSane

unSane — Wed, 10 May 2006 05:37:28 -0800

my testosterone levels went up just THINKING about it

By: Enron Hubbard

Enron Hubbard — Wed, 10 May 2006 06:01:06 -0800

This questionable experiment is an agenda in search of proof. It seeks to link the mere handling of an inert object with increased aggression, caused by a "drug". GUNS AND DRUGS = BAD. In the US, it seems there is a concerted effort to blame guns, rather than their owners, for all sorts of ills. I suspect there is a large percentage of young, educated men who have been indoctrinated to dislike guns. This is directly at odds with the well-known fondness in these same young men for things that explode loudly. The popular media uses this fondness to make things "exciting". All the TV and movie baddies wave guns around, usually held rotated 90 degrees in the "gangsta" grip, guaranteed to eject a hot casing down your shirt collar. Now, THAT'S excitement. The experimenters then link perceived aggression to the increase of the "drug". The results could as easily be used to show that one's ability to taste Tabasco in reduced by handling guns. Bah. Bad experiment, faulty methodolgy, silly conclusions.

By: fandango_matt

fandango_matt — Wed, 10 May 2006 06:31:33 -0800

posted by 517 If handling guns raises testosterone levels in men I wonder what raises estrogen levels. Babies. And when you give guns to babies, people die.

By: thanatogenous

thanatogenous — Wed, 10 May 2006 06:47:22 -0800

This American Life explores testosterone extremes.

By: daq

daq — Wed, 10 May 2006 06:50:34 -0800

This is ridiculous. I'm going to agree that this is an agenda laden experiment. First off, the experiment should have been performed on simians, not humans, and especially not civilized humans who recognize what a gun is and does. The failure of the experiment is in the cognitive recognition of a weapon. Males, especially, are geared for aggression, period. If your gonads are external, you are going to be aggressive (to protect your gonads, duh). Thus, testosterone levels and aggressive behavior are linked with cognitive recognition of the ability to inflict force. This is lizard brain stuff, people. You versus an opponent. Your opponent is unarmed, you have a rock. Which one of you is going to be more aggresive? Answer, the one with the rock, because you know that a) you have the weapon, b) your opponent will try and take your weapon and use it against you, and c) you have to defeat your opponent otherwise he will defeat you. I know, I know, you're going to take that theory and start poopoo'ing it because it states that males can't negotiate and human beings should be able to talk about their differences and blah, blah, blah. This is why I said this experiment should be performed with simians. And you cannot tell me that humans are not territorial, or that humans don't exhibit aggressive territorial and violent behavior (society of ownershiip anyone?). We just do it much more passive-aggressively now, using words and the force of law and money over the force of the fist. That and I am an utter loon.

By: longbaugh

longbaugh — Wed, 10 May 2006 07:02:43 -0800

Want to make your testosterone level go through the roof? Drink whisky from the bottle and smoke a big fat cigar whilst driving a muscle car/riding a motorcycle through the desert with a large calibre handgun and a "hot chick" whilst listening to some country/rock/whatever-the-hell-you-like-as-long-as-it's-got-wailing-guitar-chords. It also helps if you are wearing dusty leathers/denim and sunglasses and the whole thing is being filmed by Ridley Scott with the camera speed cranked up and a really nice colour filter. Your alternative is to have Michael Bay doing one of those neck-snapping whip-pans whilst rising up through the air from a helicopter which causes a massive dust cloud which makes you squint *just like Clint* only for a moment. Then you can say you are truly a man. Almost gives me wood just typing this.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Wed, 10 May 2006 07:18:46 -0800

Does day-to-day testosterone levels actually track day to day agression?

By: scaryblackdeath

scaryblackdeath — Wed, 10 May 2006 07:21:29 -0800

Longbaugh's suggestion has me so hot, I'm questioning my own sexuality as a man.

By: KevinSkomsvold

KevinSkomsvold — Wed, 10 May 2006 08:15:39 -0800

This thread is so ripe for innuendo... What do Italian suppositories have to do with anything?

By: schroedinger

schroedinger — Wed, 10 May 2006 09:08:58 -0800

I think the better question is, what don't Italian suppositories have to do with anything?

By: horsewithnoname

horsewithnoname — Wed, 10 May 2006 09:53:34 -0800

First off, the experiment should have been performed on simians, not humans, and especially not civilized humans who recognize what a gun is and does. Great idea. Let's give guns to monkeys. Next we'll be looking at the ruins of the Statue of Liberty sprawled on a beach.

By: ryoshu

ryoshu — Wed, 10 May 2006 10:04:49 -0800

Somebody's bored a small block out to 454? Indeed. For that reason alone I think most guys would choose the small block over the Chutes and Ladders game. And what Enron Hubbard said.

By: blacklite

blacklite — Wed, 10 May 2006 11:27:45 -0800

GUNS ARE AWESOME GUYS! RAARARRRAGRGH! Ahem. What I meant to say is that I definitely believe this study.

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Wed, 10 May 2006 12:39:45 -0800

“Drink whisky from the bottle and smoke a big fat cigar whilst driving a muscle car/riding a motorcycle through the desert with a large calibre handgun and a "hot chick" whilst listening to some country/rock/whatever-the-hell-you-like-as-long-as-it's-got-wailing-guitar-chords. It also helps if you are wearing dusty leathers/denim and sunglasses and the whole thing is being filmed by Ridley Scott with the camera speed cranked up and a really nice colour filter.” I drive to work like that EVERY day. Big part of the thing is that you really have to drill people not to fuck around with guns. People do seem to get a little wacky with firearms, perhaps it is the testosterone. But they’re not toys and anyone who can’t handle their testosterone rush isn’t someone I want next to me. I have a ritual in handling firearms. It’s a litany, practically OCD in nature. My wife did get a bit goofy when I was teaching her to shoot. Students don’t seem to have that, perhaps it’s the formality. But she’s leveled off and takes it seriously and actually shoots quite well. I’m not surprised though, considering how much of a fetish firearms are in movies and t.v. But I suspect handling nearly any weapon lends itself to an increase in testosterone.

By: schroedinger

schroedinger — Wed, 10 May 2006 12:45:17 -0800

Great idea. Let's give guns to monkeys. Next we'll be looking at the ruins of the Statue of Liberty sprawled on a beach. Ah, yes, but the surviving men will be the real ones, the guns gripped tightly in their hands flooding them with testosterone even unto death.

By: longbaugh

longbaugh — Wed, 10 May 2006 12:56:17 -0800

Smedleyman - Do you leave the hot chick in the car to watch over the gun or do you keep them both under your desk? ;) I remember way back when I handled my first ever firearm in the Combined Cadet Force (oh so so long ago...). Imagine a lanky 13 year old with a .303 SMLE bolt-action who had been brought up on Commando books and war movies. It took about three seconds for the Sergeant to tear me a new one for pissing about and since then any time I've handled any weapon I've taken it extremely seriously.

By: -harlequin-

-harlequin- — Wed, 10 May 2006 12:58:11 -0800

So... handling a gun results in increased hair loss and baldness? Maybe I'll just have to invent tin cans that knock themselves over when you point at them and say "bang!". :-)

By: theora55

theora55 — Wed, 10 May 2006 15:20:51 -0800

There must be a euphemism around here somewhere.

By: Decani

Decani — Wed, 10 May 2006 15:36:41 -0800

Excellent news. It might help them overcome the innate fear that causes them to pick a gun up in the first place.

By: blacklite

blacklite — Wed, 10 May 2006 18:22:14 -0800

So... handling a gun results in increased hair loss and baldness? Hey, when you're hardcore you don't need hair. Fuck hair. Jean-Luc Picard? Hardcore. Hunter S. Thompson? Fucking right. The guy that Bruce Willis played in Die Hard? Quite possibly hardcore as well.

By: BackwardsHatClub

BackwardsHatClub — Thu, 11 May 2006 12:04:58 -0800

longbaugh: Shit man, that's cool.

By: BackwardsHatClub

BackwardsHatClub — Thu, 11 May 2006 12:12:17 -0800

To whoever said some people shouldn't have guns, I agree, reminds me of this FPS Doug video.

By: eritain

eritain — Thu, 11 May 2006 13:11:22 -0800

Because I, too, can't get enough of a good gag—

Metafilter: Let's give guns to monkeys. Metafilter: There must be a euphemism around here somewhere. Metafilter: Results in increased hair loss.

That is all.