Comments on: Vanity Fair

Vanity Fair

Skeptic — Mon, 15 May 2006 11:47:38 -0800

Ayaan Hirsi Ali (née Magan) has already been mentioned in several times in Metafilter. Whether you consider her a couragous campaigner for women's rights and against Islamofascism, or a crass opportunist, there's no denying that she's some character. However, it now seems that her Becky-Sharp-ish rise to fame and power also left a similar trail of embittered ex-friends and lies that has ended up landing her in serious trouble with fellow right-winger (also previously mentioned in Metafilter) Rita Verdonk, Dutch Immigration Minister. Before feeling too sorry for Ayaan, consider that she's moving to Washington DC, where she's landed a job at the American Enterprise Institute. I'm sure she'll fit right in...

By: jouke

jouke — Mon, 15 May 2006 12:21:07 -0800

Thanks for the link the the MeFi thread on the AEI. I don't understand your Vanity Fair references. But then I have not read VF. I think she probably was both a crass campaigner and courageous opportunist. Not a politician though.

By: y2karl

y2karl — Mon, 15 May 2006 12:29:00 -0800

Ayaan Hirsi Ali (née Magan) has already been mentioned in several times in Metafilter. Mentioned mostly by Mefi's own controversial gal pal jenleigh (nee dhoyt), let it be noted.

By: cell divide

cell divide — Mon, 15 May 2006 12:36:28 -0800

I think she probably was both a crass campaigner and courageous opportunist. I think that's a good assessment. She's definitely using the situation for her benefit, and some of her beliefs are truly over the top and probably more inspired by understanding where her bread is buttered now, but she's also courageous for standing up for what she believes despite threats and great difficulty in doing so.

By: mullacc

mullacc — Mon, 15 May 2006 12:58:43 -0800

Slate recently published a Hitchens piece about her.

By: fvw

fvw — Mon, 15 May 2006 13:12:27 -0800

Great timing, the news just came that verdonk (the minister for immigration) stated that Hirsi Ali is not considered to have gained dutch citizenship. Does she have a dual nationality? If not, she doesn't have a nationality, right?

By: slatternus

slatternus — Mon, 15 May 2006 13:17:45 -0800

I actually had a great deal of respect for her, but the news about the AEI posting comes as a huge disappointment and a shock. Couldn't she do better than to parachute into that Imperialist thinktank?

By: jouke

jouke — Mon, 15 May 2006 13:19:35 -0800

Where did you read that fvw? Although the nrc mentions that a professor of Law argued that by legal precedent she is considered not to have gained dutch citizenship. But Verdonk only has promised to investigate the matter.

By: Zombie Dreams

Zombie Dreams — Mon, 15 May 2006 13:35:50 -0800

She's very sweet in person, but very stubborn, and she has a tendency to burn her bridges. The way she helped 'liberate' muslim women will have caught the attention of the AEI who have a similar definition of liberation (Iraq, anyone?) I'm certain she won't last long there, once they find out she's not only anti-Islam, but also pro-gay, anti-religion, and pro-insult.

By: jouke

jouke — Mon, 15 May 2006 13:41:35 -0800

...and pro-insult. Very good Zombie Dreams.

By: ijsbrand

ijsbrand — Mon, 15 May 2006 13:47:17 -0800

It is all over the Dutch news now that immigration minister Rita Verdonk has send a letter to Ayaan Hirsi Ali that legally her Dutch nationality has been revoked/is withdrawn. Verdonk is of the same political party as Ayaan, by the way, but campaigning to become the party leader. In order to win this party election she 's aiming to look tough. Other point: the immigration law changed several years after Ayaan Hirsi Ali become a Dutchwoman. But, to prevent that war criminals could profit from any protection gained by becoming Dutch, it was stated then passports could be withdrawn from anyone who came into the Netherlands under false pretense after 1990.

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Mon, 15 May 2006 13:49:33 -0800

Excellent post, Skeptic. jouke - Verdonk has now confirmed herself that she considers Ayaan not to have acquired Dutch citizenship. No English-language source yet, but it's all over Dutch news. Also, keep in mind that Ayaan wrote the scenario to the film that got Theo van Gogh killed. (Previous posts by yours sincerely: 1 2 3)

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Mon, 15 May 2006 13:50:51 -0800

ijsbrand: jinx.

By: borq

borq — Mon, 15 May 2006 13:57:25 -0800

That'll teach her to trust conlib's.. she's really being spit out by her own partymembers at the moment.. Another low in Dutch history as another law is (mis)used to it's maximum extent and in the meantime the refugee problem continues..

By: jouke

jouke — Mon, 15 May 2006 14:03:44 -0800

Ehm, borq, isn't the way she's treated an example of trustworthiness? Everybody equal for the law; the reverse of nepotism?

By: Skeptic

Skeptic — Mon, 15 May 2006 14:09:47 -0800

jouke: Except that her party, Verdonk included, were aware of the problem at least since 2002, when she was first asked about it on TV. Only now, Verdonk had been very noisily campaigning against bogus asylum seekers, and Hirsi Ali very noisily keeping quiet about it, when a mischievous TV team made an exposé on the subject...

By: Substrata

Substrata — Mon, 15 May 2006 14:13:46 -0800

Islamofascism no clue, no clue whatsoever. bye bye Ayaan, we'll never hear anything anymore from you and that's just great. (/whatever)

By: ob

ob — Mon, 15 May 2006 15:59:20 -0800

I just read the article in De Volkskrant, it does seem like she's in a lot of trouble. I can't find this in English just yet...

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Mon, 15 May 2006 16:15:03 -0800

More: Slate (round-up), Guardian

By: delmoi

delmoi — Mon, 15 May 2006 16:26:49 -0800

Ehm, borq, isn't the way she's treated an example of trustworthiness? Everybody equal for the law; the reverse of nepotism? Selective enforcement of laws against political opponents isn't the reverse of nepotism.

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Mon, 15 May 2006 16:30:13 -0800

Also: Leon de Winter for Die Welt. LGF is also having a field day with this, but I'm sure you can find that website yourself. Man, am I glad jenleigh et al. aren't around for this episode.

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Mon, 15 May 2006 16:37:48 -0800

Indeed, delmoi, but minister Verdonk and Ayaan Hirsi Ali belong to the same party, and thus are not necessarily opponents.

By: unreason

unreason — Mon, 15 May 2006 16:41:19 -0800

, and thus are not necessarily opponents. posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 7:37 PM EST on May 15 [+fave] [!] That they are in the same party means little. The fact is that she's an embarrassment to other politicians, and so she's being shown the door. The Dutch are extremely easy going about letting immigrants stay in their country. Isn't it a remarkable coincidence that the one they choose to kick out is the one who says things that they don't want said?

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Mon, 15 May 2006 16:54:39 -0800

The Dutch are extremely easy going about letting immigrants stay in their country. Isn't it a remarkable coincidence that the one they choose to kick out is the one who says things that they don't want said? It is, however, I'm leaving my tinfoil hat off for the moment, just in case. Still, as for the "The Dutch are extremely easy going about letting immigrants stay in their country" part, as far as I'm concerned you can mark that down as "The Dutch were".

By: jouke

jouke — Mon, 15 May 2006 20:32:43 -0800

delmoi: Selective enforcement of laws against political opponents isn't the reverse of nepotism. Sorry but you don't know what you're talking about. unreason: The fact is that she's an embarrassment to other politicians, and so she's being shown the door. She's been an embarassment for a long time. It's only now that she has to go. But I do think her party wants to get rid of the divisive elements. Which I think is politically to be expected, but still somewhat a pity. And yes, it's wrong that her party knew this for so long and didn't do a thing.

By: Zombie Dreams

Zombie Dreams — Mon, 15 May 2006 22:42:29 -0800

delmoi: Verdonk's not being selective, she's being extremely consistent. Political opponents were probably hoping Verdonk would be more lenient to other asylum seekers, instead she's being as harsh on AHA as she's been on others. Remember that Verdonk's from the same right-wing party as AHA, and another right-winger, some may say extremely right-winger, Hilbrand Nawijn (Verdonk's predecessor), was the one to call for this investigation.

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Tue, 16 May 2006 04:27:56 -0800

What Zombie Dreams said.

By: blag

blag — Tue, 16 May 2006 14:00:10 -0800

goodnewsfortheinsane writes LGF is also having a field day with this, but I'm sure you can find that website yourself.

Our favourite nutters are providing some top-quality political analysis: #40 Just_A_Grunt 5/15/2006 11:16AM PDT The Netherlands will only hasten their demise as a once proud Scandinavian culture that at one time spawned such warriors as the Vikings. #7 Ward Cleaver 5/15/2006 08:10AM PDT Great news. Welcome Ms. Ali. On the other hand, no more Danish ham. Of course in a few years there won't be any Danish ham. #48 TalkinKamel 5/15/2006 08:22AM PDT As far as being a country, I think Holland's washed up. It's already practically living under Shari'a.

By: Zombie Dreams

Zombie Dreams — Tue, 16 May 2006 14:13:59 -0800

blag: thankfully us vikings already grow large beards and slaughter sheep, so we have no trouble satisfying those demands of sharia. I sure am going to miss the famous Dutch Danish ham, though! Excuse me, I have to retreat to my Lego windmill, now.

By: blag

blag — Tue, 16 May 2006 19:03:10 -0800

I know... sometimes you wonder if they're taking the piss. Until you realise that, holy shit, they really are that stupid.

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Wed, 17 May 2006 05:25:47 -0800

Yeah - it's an infinite source of amazement. So anyway, last night's turn of events almost warrants a thread of its own, don't you think?

By: dabitch

dabitch — Wed, 17 May 2006 05:56:00 -0800

blag, depressing as it may be to y'all, I can testify as a Swede (bona-fide scandinavian) that used to live in the Netherlands (in the part of the netherlands called Holland actually) that many many of my US colleagues and contacts used to refer to the Netherlands as a part of Scandinavia. I never once corrected them either.

By: Zombie Dreams

Zombie Dreams — Wed, 17 May 2006 07:49:13 -0800

dabitch: many Dutchmen don't know the difference between Holland and the Netherlands, either. ;-) (for you people who don't know it: Holland is the total of two provinces, north- and south-Holland, in which, admittedly, most of the important stuff happens anyway). I have no problem with people from other countries not knowing anything about Dutch culture or geography, as long as they don't make any harsh statements about either.

By: Zombie Dreams

Zombie Dreams — Wed, 17 May 2006 07:50:39 -0800

Dutch provinces

By: Zombie Dreams

Zombie Dreams — Wed, 17 May 2006 08:49:19 -0800

I do think Hofstede's research shows the Netherlands to be more like Scandinavian countries, than to be similar to its neighbouring countries. That link is so damn cool it would almost warrant its own thread, but whatever.