Comments on: Four out of Five Americans Know Earth Revolves around the Sun.

Four out of Five Americans Know Earth Revolves around the Sun.

liquidgnome — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:00:37 -0800

Four out of Five Americans Know Earth Revolves around the Sun. I certainly wish this was an Onion Headline. Should we all know this? I'm inclined to think so. Elsewhere in the article, 2% of Americans believe that Independence was won from France. Shoot me in the face.

By: gluechunk

gluechunk — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:16:35 -0800

USAtoday ran an article about 10 years ago that showed the results of a decade quiz given to students (and I think to non-students too). Basically, they had to name just the decade that certain historival events occurred in - they didn't need to cite the day or specific year. Lots of people had troubles placing events such as the Civil War, the first moon landing, WWII, etc. into the proper decade. I wish I had clipped that article.

By: Doug

Doug — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:17:36 -0800

This stuff is designed to make us all feel superior to the silly little fools who don't know that America won independance from England. But really, it should make us question the accuracy of Gallup polls, and the way they phrase questions.

By: internook

internook — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:21:42 -0800

The people who don't know are happier than you and I because they don't know that they don't know. I envy them.

By: crunchland

crunchland — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:27:33 -0800

I don't know about that.

By: DiplomaticImmunity

DiplomaticImmunity — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:34:20 -0800

really it should make us question the accuracy of Gallup polls, and the way they phrase questions Yup, questions like "As far as you know, from what country did America gain its independence following the Revolutionary War?" are sure potentially misleading, that's gotta explain it...

By: internook

internook — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:41:24 -0800

crunchland: I don't know about that. If you didn't know that you didn't know about it you'd be far better off.

By: Postroad

Postroad — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:43:07 -0800

nd lelarn. I thought we gained our independence by breaking away from the United Nations.

By: fleener

fleener — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:51:20 -0800

Nooo, Breaking Away was a bicycle racing movie set in Bloomington, Indiana. The United Nations is in Manhattan.

By: mikewas

mikewas — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:57:49 -0800

Elsewhere in the article, 2% of Americans believe that Independence was won from France. This invokes fond memories of the time I worked for a U.S. Congressman, because that 2% of the population comprised about 60% of constituent mail on a wide variety of topics. I'd also bet there's a significant correlation to the 1% of Palm Beach County voters who couldn't figure out how to vote for Al Gore rather than Pat Buchanan.

By: jpoulos

jpoulos — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:25:08 -0800

I wonder how man of the respondents were high school kids with bad attitudes who felt like goofing on the Gallup people. Two percent sounds right. some people get a kick out of stuff like that.

By: Doug

Doug — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:40:48 -0800

This article doesn't directly quote the question concerning Americas independance, Diplo. It's very possible that the people asked the question were confused, or whatnot. More than 2% of the population is under the age of, say, 10, so its actually somewhat reassuring to think that ONLY 5% mentioned a country other than England.

By: y6y6y6

y6y6y6 — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:46:42 -0800

The Sun DOES revolve around the Earth. Everyday. It sails across the sky, goes down in the west and comes up in the east. How do they think it got around to the other side? Magic? These Gallop people are retards.

By: daveadams

daveadams — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:50:12 -0800

The most interesting part was that more Americans answered the earth-sun question correctly than Germans or Britons. Still, I think history is quite a bit more important than astronomy, so the independence-from-whom question is more depressing.

By: thirteen

thirteen — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:54:03 -0800

I am wondering how many Americans know what the sun revolves around.

By: dnash

dnash — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:00:26 -0800

Doug, the article does quote the questions asked, at the bottom of the page where all three questions are listed along with the responses.

By: mathowie

mathowie — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:11:44 -0800

For me, this is by far the scariest poll at gallup. I've heard about more recent polling on the topic, and 50% of americans still don't believe that evolution exists, though I couldn't find a URL for it.

By: Doug

Doug — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:12:23 -0800

Well, I'm a dumbass. You're absolutely right, I didn't scroll down. It even says they were adults. So, really, I feel like I'd answered Uganda to the Independance question.

By: Postroad

Postroad — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:18:33 -0800

Not to worry. School vouchers will take care of this problem

By: mathowie

mathowie — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:27:14 -0800

Oh yeah, school vouchers will solve that problem, sure.

By: dithered

dithered — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:41:07 -0800

At least they are asking decent questions. I read a newspaper poll (a la the Onion) where they asked people how they felt about a report that two identical snowflakes had been found. One person said that they felt robbed.

By: Neb

Neb — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:46:26 -0800

What DOES the sun revolve around?

By: Ed Viehman

Ed Viehman — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:56:55 -0800

Just go to New York,they think that Bill and Hillary Clinton are the center of the solar system and all thought and originality devolves from them.The only exception to this rule are people who read the NY Post daily.

By: Ed Viehman

Ed Viehman — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:00:08 -0800

Only a moron questions the question.Wait! I want a second guess and absent that a few hints so I can get the right answer.Are the answers in the back of the book?

By: Aaaugh!

Aaaugh! — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:02:18 -0800

Speaking of scary polls, I find this new one, which indicates that the vast majority of Americans favor some sort of school prayer, to be extremely frightening.

By: Ed Viehman

Ed Viehman — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:08:28 -0800

I have a suggestion for the politically and factually challenged.Log on every day to the Washington Post and Washington Times and get your facts and Politics balanced. If a computer is not available, turn on your boob tube and flip between Fox News and CNN News to get a balanced accounting of the facts between 6 and 8 PM.I blame a lot of this idiocy on public education and the fact that people don't take a daily newspaper.It's sad to be a dolt in an information age.

By: Ed Viehman

Ed Viehman — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:10:16 -0800

Dear Aaugh!, I'll pray for you.

By: Ed Viehman

Ed Viehman — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:10:17 -0800

Dear Aaugh!, I'll pray for you.

By: thirteen

thirteen — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:19:40 -0800

Neb: The Sun revolves around the center of the Milky Way.

By: internook

internook — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:31:18 -0800

Alas, what does the center of the Milky Way revolve around? Pilgrims? Different riddle. This is like those damn cats in those damn hats or whatever that story was.

By: Ed Viehman

Ed Viehman — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:34:13 -0800

Let's see... We've taken God out of darn near everything and teenage pregnancy,STD's,suicide,satan worship,drug useage and violence is at an all time high in schools.Could a little civility or a moment of silence to gather your thoughts before each class period hurt?My guess is the kids killers at Columbine weren't exactly religious amd the kids at Owensboro and Little Rock targeted Christians ,if you'd care to check you facts.

By: anildash

anildash — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:41:52 -0800

Hey! Let's debate about religion in schools! The kids aren't learning basic facts of science and history, but we need to focus more on getting them to silently contemplate God. I betcha if we all post our 2 cents, that will cause lawmakers to modify the Constitution of the U.S. and there will be no more violence. Or maybe not.

And that, my friends, is how we Save The Children.

By: internook

internook — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:44:12 -0800

Some people are ignorant of what others consider basic facts. I know there are a million and one basic questions you could ask me and I wouldn't know the answer. That being said, the solution (if there even needs to be one) would be improvements in the education system. I assure you that doesn't include factoring in some make believe God. Facts come from books, not heaven.

By: sonofsamiam

sonofsamiam — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:47:09 -0800

"Facts come from books"?!?!?! Haw, haw, haw! The junk they taught me in school was so out of step w/ the then-commonly-held theories, it was ludicrust. Please keep in mind, the Bible is a book, too, and that is apparantly enough for some people.

By: liquidgnome

liquidgnome — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:51:05 -0800

Satan worship? At an all time high? The Columbine Killers "not really religious"? Friend, people do some pretty wacked out stuff in the name of religion. In fact, nothing creeps me out more than the commercial for the CD "Songs 4 Worship", which features hundreds of people standing with their eyes closed and hands raised to the heavens, listening to contemporary christian music. It's just creepy. Yeah, these people are the moral compass of the nation.

By: thirteen

thirteen — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:10:47 -0800

The Milky Way is moving away from the center of the universe.

By: quonsar

quonsar — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:17:29 -0800

The junk they taught me in school was so out of step w/ the then-commonly-held theories, it was ludicrust. ludicrust is the crunchy stuff the center of a stale milky way bar revolves around.

By: th3ph17

th3ph17 — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:20:31 -0800

Well if Satan worship is at an all time high, maybe a partisan effort between christians and SW's [as i like to say] for a moment of contemplation would be ok? Everyone could ask their deities for knowledge, like the date we won our independence from France.

By: gluechunk

gluechunk — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:23:55 -0800

And what is the universe revolving around? (And don't say "Not you!")

By: quonsar

quonsar — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:25:51 -0800

we have yet to win our freedom from France. just ask Yahoo!

By: Neb

Neb — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:27:26 -0800

thirteen, I can't help but ask... Do you know if there are any theories on how long it takes our Solar System to make an orbit around the milky way?

By: thirteen

thirteen — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:39:06 -0800

It takes about 200 million years to complete one orbit traveling at about 250 kilometers/sec.

By: thirteen

thirteen — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:40:17 -0800

(I have lots of Astronomy pages bookmarked)

By: davidgentle

davidgentle — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:46:14 -0800

Don't all the planets, technically orbit all the other planets? Or have I been miswatching all those cool BBC documentrys?

By: cCranium

cCranium — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 16:08:02 -0800

You've been miswatching. They all have the centre point of their orbit at the sun, not other planets. And "centre point" is probably wrong, because IIRC, the sun's actually off-center, but it's the thing keeping them all in their paths.

By: rodii

rodii — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 16:31:02 -0800

The earth-sun system revolves around a point that happens to be inside the sun. Welcome to Metafilter, Ed. Don't forget to take your meds every day.

By: y6y6y6

y6y6y6 — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 16:37:29 -0800

[off topic] They have meds for that??? [off topic]

By: Aaaugh!

Aaaugh! — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:11:58 -0800

How do you respond to a statement like "I'll pray for you?" There's no good response for it, is there? Everything I write makes me appear as either a clueless moron or a heartless bastard. How do you politely make it clear that it's unnecessary and unappreciated? Thanks but no thanks just doesn't seem to cover it.

By: capt.crackpipe

capt.crackpipe — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:27:46 -0800

Thanks for stereotyping all New Yorkers, Ed. I take personal offense at your mean-spirited remark. I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt since you're new here, but I have a terrible feeling you might believe yourself. Since it sounds like you never actually been here, there do happen to be Christians in NYC. Not that I'm one, blessed dharma, but odds are there's gotta be a few around here somewhere. As per the actual article that started the thread: I don't believe the results. Gallup does this for the attention.

By: sonofsamiam

sonofsamiam — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:28:29 -0800

I'll pray for you, Ed.

By: sonofsamiam

sonofsamiam — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:29:56 -0800

I'll pray for people who take polling too seriously, too.

By: dagnyscott

dagnyscott — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:13:18 -0800

Let's see... We've taken God out of darn near everything and teenage pregnancy,STD's,suicide,satan worship,drug useage and violence is at an all time high in schools. umm... hasn't violence in schools been declining for a decade or so, when you look at actual figures, as opposed to well-publicized but isolated incidents? And "satan worship"? OK, maybe some kids sit around wearing black, listening to Marilyn Manson and saying "I worship Satan. Ooh. I'm scary." but that doesn't worry me too much. And many pregnant teenagers claim to be Christian, a Chicken Soup for the Soul sparkly version of Christian that's more about appearing to be a nice girl than actually following a set of moral guidelines..

By: daveadams

daveadams — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:24:01 -0800

How do you respond to a statement like "I'll pray for you?" There's no good response for it, is there? Everything I write makes me appear as either a clueless moron or a heartless bastard That's the hope, I think. It's an easy out from an uncomfortable conversation.

By: krakedhalo

krakedhalo — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:39:41 -0800

As an atheist who recently graduated from a Catholic high school, I can tell you that kids are still going to use drugs/wear black clothes/drink/get pregnant/whatever, no matter how much prayer they have in school. The same goes for college... I went to a public school in southern Kentucky (right in the middle of the bible belt) for two years. The Baptist Student Union was far and away the biggest organization on campus. There was as much (insert societal problem here) as in the next school. dagny is right on.... most religious (as opposed to god-oriented 'spiritual' types) go to church and say they love jesus or whatever because everyone else does. It's not just American history, they don't know the history of or philosophy behind their church either.

By: Dreama

Dreama — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:58:58 -0800

dagny is right on.... most religious (as opposed to god-oriented 'spiritual' types) go to church and say they love jesus or whatever because everyone else does. Which is why a lot of truly faithful people are highly offended at the notion of being considered 'religious' -- I know that the word says nothing about me.

By: croutonsupafreak

croutonsupafreak — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:45:30 -0800

We've taken God out of darn near everything and teenage pregnancy,STD's,suicide,satan worship,drug useage and violence is at an all time high in schools. Um, you're almost completely wrong. I can't vouch for Satan worship, but teen pregnancy is at a 25-year low, teen drug use is declining, teen crime rates are down (although with spectacles like Columbine, I can see how the perception would be otherwise), and overall STD rates have declined in the last half-century (not including AIDS, which is too new to have tracked for so long). You're right on about the suicide rates, though. If god has really been taken out of darn near everything, and if god-to-desirable-social-characteristics are correlated, it sounds like keeping god out of the way is good for business. Maybe if we taught kids there was no afterlife they'd stop killing themselves and then we could all live free in a godless utopia at last.

By: croutonsupafreak

croutonsupafreak — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:52:21 -0800

Of course, I don't really thing god is less a part of life than ever before. This article in the Columbia Journalism Review argues that religion is increasingly prominent in American politics. And then you have creationism being taught in Kansas schools, a mandatory minute basically set aside for prayer in Virginia schools. Maybe there are more interpretations of what "god" (or godess, Allah, godess, etc) means than ever before in U.S. history, but people are just as religious as ever, and they're increasingly bringing their personal religous beliefs into inappropriate public forums such as school and government. .... okay, how off topic was that?

By: Avogadro

Avogadro — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:55:59 -0800

Where is there evidence that most people who are "religious" are acting so out of societal pressure and are not "spiritual"? It seems to me that being religious merely implies membership in an organized religion, whereas spirituality connotes a connection with a higher power regardless of tradition or structure; the two concepts are not exclusive of one another. While it would seem a bit odd to be religious without being spiritual, some people still are drawn to religion, and only later discover spirituality through practice. The only real difference (besides that which I described above) is that mud sticks more easily to those who claim to be religious than those who don't. uh...now where the hell is the original thread? Can't seem to find it anywhere...

By: 120degrees

120degrees — Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:45:07 -0800

Geez people, EVERYONE knows the world revolves around Britney Spears?!

By: Ed Viehman

Ed Viehman — Thu, 11 Jan 2001 05:52:40 -0800

AS of the last government report from our drug czar teen drug use is up.The use of gateway drugs is up and teen pregnancy is still high although not as bad as it was.Ten smoking is up and teen violence as evidenced by school shootings and the threat to teachers every day is up.To say otherwise is to put your head in the sand.The "I'll pray for you" comment was a joke and it got the response I thought I'd get.I am religious but not evangelical.I believe that you have to be grounded in some faith or you are a party of one with nowhere to go.Most epople who say they are spiritual just don't want to strap on the clothes every Sunday morning and listen to a boring sermon.Find a message that warms your heart and connects you with the Creator whether that is in a Bible study class or at your local church or synagogue.As far as NY goes,my Mom was born and raised in Brooklyn,went to St.Joseph's College for Women and graduated Summa Cum Laude.I have been to NYC 3 times and enjoyed it immensely.My uncle still lives in Massapequa and my cousin is a priest in Brentwood.I am in transportation so I deal with New Yorkers on a daily basis on the phone.You will notice I only disparaged people who use the NY Times for their sole source of information and hold it to be the defintitive word on all things.Cheers Ed

By: Avogadro

Avogadro — Thu, 11 Jan 2001 06:33:37 -0800

The "I'll pray for you" comment was a joke and it got the response I thought I'd get. Ed, if you thought that you would get that response, then why did you make that comment? Please keep in mind that I'm not saying that you should hold your opinions to yourself, but there is a standard for civility here, and while heated debate occurs (frequently), trolling is beyond the pale. "Conventionality is not morality. Self-righteousness is not religion. To attack the first is not to assail the last."- Charlotte Brontë

By: straight

straight — Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:12:16 -0800

According to Einstein, whether the Sun moves around the Earth or the Earth around the Sun depends on which reference frame you choose. It's just an arbitrary convention. Neither one is "right". For most people, the most useful reference frame is to assume that the Earth is standing still and everything else is moving. For Solar System astronomers, the most useful reference frame is to assume the Sun is stationary (at least, I imagine they don't need to take the Sun's motion into account when they talk about the orbit of the planets, since those orbits are moving as well). For my everyday needs, it makes more sense for me to say the sun is about to rise than to say that the horizon is about to dip toward the sun.

By: rich

rich — Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:21:43 -0800

The NY Times, while being a liberal media paper by Wall Street Journal standards, still is a better source of infomration than, say, the Post. As for polls, statistics can be made to say watever you want in regards to who and how you ask on highly subjective topics like school prayer and so forth. Drug use is also an easy one - demographics, how the polls are conducted (anonymous, stopped on the street, open response), semmantics about drugs and sex all play a role in marginalizing the results. I believe the 2% believing we won independence from France is accurate, however, just as I am sure a good percentage couldn't name our last three presidents, their current governor, who was president during the Civil War, or be able to point out Rhode Island on a map. Geography and history are not strong topics taught in schools, mainly because of the emphasis on standardized testing and benchmarking for english and math (which really robs the studnets since the smart teachers just teach to the test and nothing more). As for religion becoming more promiment.. it's bound to happen that when people need something to hold onto, religion pops up because it requires no other support other than faith. All the data, facts, and truth can be wiped away with the wave of a hand if the Good Book says so.

By: Ed Viehman

Ed Viehman — Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:26:21 -0800

I'd agree but it,religion, is not a haven for the insecure or weaklings as some might suggest.I will differ with you on the truth.That is universal.No Good Book wipes that away and it is up to people of good intention to fairly and justly interpret that Book without prejudice or bad intention.On another note ,the NY Times is advocacy journalism and its slant is by far the worst right next to our Minneapolis Star& Tribune which wouldn't run the Monica Lewinsky story for two weeks .I prefer the Washington Post vs Washington Times articles daily to get a clear view of what might be the truth and who might be handling the truth a little recklessly.The NY Times columnists are so predictable that I could almost write the stuff they put out.This ambush-style asking of questions with people looking like idiots ,really shows that the emphasis is no longer on learning the facts about anything.When I was in third grade you had to memorize all the state capitols.Fourth grade was all the presidents in order.Sixth grade was all the countries of Europe.Kids don't even know how to find the Nation's capitol on a map.Leno did it one time in a man on the street interview with a map of the US.It made me uncomfortable to watch otherwise normal people look stupid.

By: cCranium

cCranium — Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:28:51 -0800

For my everyday needs, it makes more sense for me to say the sun is about to rise than to say that the horizon is about to dip toward the sun. Except that really doesn't have to do with the earth's orbit so much as the earth's rotation. :-) Point on relativity well taken, but I really do doubt that the reason people said the sun orbits the earth is because they were talking relativistically. It's quite possible that some of them were, but I think it's safe to assume most who answered the way they did were talking out of ignorance. I also don't think that ~1000 people are actually representative of America as a whole. 1000 does not accurate represent some 250 million. I think a reasonable amount of salt should be taken with these results, anyway.

By: croutonsupafreak

croutonsupafreak — Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:14:32 -0800

A few years ago I was surveyed. I was asked who the president was and I said George Washington. The poller laughed then moved on. I'm not an imbicile, but I was distracted and thinking of other things. Anyhow, he was president once. A co-worker of mine tutors Latino immigrants. She had to fill out a form giving information on how many years of formal education they'd had. Most answered fewer than 4 years, even though she knew that some of them had graduated from high schoo. When she questioned them further she learned that they didn't count the years before 9th grade as formal education. Sometimes perfectly intelligent people answer straitforward polls in honestly and they still get the wrong answer. Cultural context, distractions, etc. can get in the way.

By: daveadams

daveadams — Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:47:30 -0800

they didn't count the years before 9th grade as formal education. That seems backwards. My high school years were the least formal of all my education... :)

By: y6y6y6

y6y6y6 — Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:40:37 -0800

One of the busiest topics on the whole Metafilter front page is about whether Americans are idiots and whether school prayer might help. [sigh]

By: cCranium

cCranium — Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:26:35 -0800

So, what you're saying is... we should get the school children to pray for Metafilter?

By: Ed Viehman

Ed Viehman — Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:33:32 -0800

y6y6y6,School prayer will not help idiots.A prayer for idiots that starts out,"Lord, deliver me from idiots or Lord,please give all the idiots the flu today" might have a chance.There's also an adaptation of the Irish saying that says," Lord,please sprain the ankle of all the idiots so I'll know them by their limping."ED

By: croutonsupafreak

croutonsupafreak — Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:38:39 -0800

heh ... I have to say I agree with you on this one, Ed. I'm going to quote something one of my co-workers said today after a disheartening customer service experience yesterday: "I'd be willing to pay higher taxes just so they'd keep all the idiots on welfare and out of my way." ... damn, I feel so dirty and elitist.

By: TheShovel

TheShovel — Fri, 02 Mar 2001 00:14:29 -0800

Talk of intelligence often proves to be rather shallow and ... well, unintelligent. We have differing kinds: retention of facts (n tidbits), which is more of a "storage" issue, and then there's ability to make use of facts (n tidbits). I get most worried about Americans who are "processing deficient" as opposed to "storage deficient". And to me, religion in a person is often an indicator that, in that person, the processor has hit a brick wall.