Comments on: You Don't Know The Power...

You Don't Know The Power...

justkevin — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:37:59 -0800

[TV Guide Filter] Tonight on Frontline: The Dark Side. An in-depth look at Dick Cheney's battle with the intelligence community to shape the War on Terror. From Boston.com's preview: "Frontline" delivers a devastating look tonight at the efforts of Vice President Dick Cheney to gain control of the war on terror after 9/11. In doing so, the show purports, he compromised the integrity of America's intelligence system. Check your local listings.

By: parallax7d

parallax7d — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:37:06 -0800

[outrage fatigue]

By: Superfrankenstein

Superfrankenstein — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:42:43 -0800

I mentioned this in another thread, but the Seattle Times review also carries a nicely detailed summary.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:58:54 -0800

There's also this book that we just talked about. I doubt this has any new info I haven't seen before. Plus frontline is a pile of bullshit fear mongering anyway. Who can take them seriously after then "ZOMG PORNZ!!!" episode.

By: cell divide

cell divide — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:10:08 -0800

I like how even critical news organizations refer to Cheney trying to "gain control on the War on Terror," when the war on terror as a concept itself is created and shaped by the man and his ilk. The "War on Terror" was a sham from the beginning, not some noble cause that was hijacked by Chenmeister.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 17:27:55 -0800

it's a way of spinning it to save face for themselves (the media), i think, cell. They swallowed it all hook, line and sinker and most continue to do so and to spread it, so those few who have stopped need an out (which is very few of them). It's like all the talk about how Bush has betrayed conservative principles, or all the talk about religious conservatives wising up to being used so much, etc. They're all face-saving measures, but with Cheney, there's much truth--he did have secret energy meetings with maps of Iraq, and he has been driving a lot of stuff--from the Libby/Plame crimes to invasion to oil to ensuring Halliburton's new billions...

By: namespan

namespan — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:09:44 -0800

Frontline? Meh. That almost makes me wonder if it's right. Almost.

By: George_Spiggott

George_Spiggott — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:43:47 -0800

Who can take them seriously after then "ZOMG PORNZ!!!" episode. What aspect of their reporting on American Porn did you find inaccurate? Or is your objection of a more general nature, e.g., porn and its current place in the American marketplace is not a legitimate subject for a documentary?

By: Ironmouth

Ironmouth — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:45:16 -0800

They are hitting home on this. I think the new book is also going to start to turn over the first stones.

By: StopMakingSense

StopMakingSense — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:05:56 -0800

There's a (surprisingly) watchable and damn near engrossing play that covers really similar territory called Stuff Happens that I think is still playing in NYC at this point. It's worth checking out, especially for the actor who plays Colin Powell as a renegade badass who's not afraid to fuck shit up.

By: sacre_bleu

sacre_bleu — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:17:28 -0800

It's a powerful piece that should be watched by every American, IMHO. If you've been reading along closely lo these many years much of it will be retread, but there's a high quotient of interviews with guys who were actually room during some of the most awful moments. What do you want the media to do now? Curl up in a ball? Swallow their guns? What else can the responsible media do now except report, and keep reporting, how 1. the U.S. people were duped into supporting a war with a pack of lies 2. by leaders that deliberately diverted forces away from cornering Osama bin Laden, before 3. White House intelligence amateurs bullied CIA professionals into producing a WMD report that was wrong but useful propaganda for the moment, before 4. starting the most pointless, costly war since Vietnam while blowing the task of securing the United States. It cannot be repeated often enough. If it is repeated as often as stories about Angelina and Brad, perhaps the facts will finally sink in to the rest of the people who still think Saddam bombed the Twin Towers.

By: octothorpe

octothorpe — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:40:51 -0800

Just finished watching it. Pretty powerful stuff. I don't think that there was anything in it that I had not heard of before but it was scary seeing it all together. These people are liars and criminals and it's going to take a long time to recover from what they have done to our country.

By: hwestiii

hwestiii — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:54:20 -0800

Watching now. The surrealism continues...

By: ao4047

ao4047 — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:03:15 -0800

If you appreciate this week's FRONTLINE, be sure to call the producers and let them know you appreciate their work. And give some dough to your local PBS station.

By: Mayor Curley

Mayor Curley — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:13:09 -0800

Plus frontline is a pile of bullshit fear mongering anyway. Yeah. They just did a show about AIDS. They strongly implied that it was deadly and contagious despite all the available evidence.

By: wrapper

wrapper — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:31:56 -0800

They managed to leave out that "Curveball" was tortured. (If I remember correctly)

By: pmurray63

pmurray63 — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:34:36 -0800

No, that was the other source. Curveball was one of Chalabi's relatives, IIRC.

By: Mayor Curley

Mayor Curley — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:36:55 -0800

They managed to leave out that "Curveball" was tortured. (If I remember correctly) By whom? The Iraqis? Because old stereotypes about cruelty not withstanding, I'm pretty sure that the Germans wouldn't grant someone asylum in order to torture them. And if it's "yeah, by the Iraqis" then so what?

By: bukharin

bukharin — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:46:20 -0800

outrage fatigue Yeah, but, it's not so much about getting yourself worked up anymore as it is about simply knowing what's going on... the corridors of power have become bewildering labryinths, the motives and forces at play here are so interwoven and complex, that I just want to know something, anything I can. I want to know what people are up to, not so I can tear at my hair in impotent rage or throw myself in front of a tank, but because the human story -- as it has been since the beginning -- is at once tragic and beautiful, even in the darkest hours. Why do we bleed, why do we starve? Frontline is an incredible series -- its camera is unflinching and the faces don't lie.

By: George_Spiggott

George_Spiggott — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:02:53 -0800

I'm tempted to say something clever like "say goodbye to what little government funding PBS still gets", but there are more important things than trying to be clever. It really isn't funny.

By: pax digita

pax digita — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:09:29 -0800

Outrage fatigue. Yep. As I just finished writing a friend overseas: I'll be up all night thinking about a lot of dead and wounded Americans and Iraqis and wishing I could cry. Or throw up. Or lose my temper and yell, swear, and kick things. Or something. Mostly, I just feel old and sad, and I envy the young and angry their energy.

By: caddis

caddis — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:00:51 -0800

Cheney and Rummy are evil on the order of Eichman. Thank God GW is just a rube, rather than the devil incarnate like Hitler. (sorry but this thread just screams for Godwin)

By: craniac

craniac — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:03:24 -0800

I saw parts of this, but then I had to watch the final episode of another program about moral decay, ideological apathy in the service of greed, and the slow rotting of a great nation--"Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy." It was great.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:41:32 -0800

Excellent, as usual.

By: Alexandros

Alexandros — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:55:48 -0800

I missed it. Did Cheney reveal himself to be a Sith Lord, or do we have to wait until next episode?

By: Balisong

Balisong — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 23:08:46 -0800

I'm with you here, pax digita I still have faith that we will be able to smile upon the outcome in our lifetimes, tho. Maybe late.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 23:33:21 -0800

Meanwhile, U.S. Back at Full War Footing in Afghanistan

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Tue, 20 Jun 2006 23:43:19 -0800

Use outrage fatigue for motivation, like pain. Draw from it. Let each bit physically drained from you fuel your spirit. Having an opponant is fun. I mean what, you're going to watch t.v. all night? (from boston.com) "To many, Cheney is the dark side of the Bush administration" As opposed to what? There's a lighter side? "Cheney didn't trust the CIA after it missed the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Iranian revolution, and Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait..." *spit take* Missed wha? Yeah, oh, it was because Reagan was psychic; that buildup in '78 attacking Khomeini? the protests? - yeah didn't see them ousting our puppet there, nosir; and talk to Bush Sr. about the last one. Caddis - you know who else constructed a near-limitless concept of executive power during war? Hitler.

By: paulsc

paulsc — Wed, 21 Jun 2006 01:21:32 -0800

I saw this piece this evening, and as I watched it, I thought 2 things: 1) If this kind of thing can still make it to air, we're still living in an America in which it is worth being a citizen. 2) The guys starring in this episode are probably pissed about that. The [outrage fatigue] thing is insidious, and damn, I feel it, too. From the first time I heard the phrase "War on Terror" spouted by Bush II after 9/11, I knew that abuse of the Constitution was imminent and ongoing, because the whole point of making a war out of a crime is to suspend due process guarantees. But I try to remain as morally indignant at the current administration as I can, on a daily basis, because remaining outraged and opposing what is going on is all I can do in the face of evil. If I fail to do even that, I become like those fine burghers of Munich, who, when taken out to Dachau immediately after it was opened by the Allied troops, said they didn't know what was happening there, as if they couldn't smell the smokestacks when the wind was blowing. I know what these bastards are doing, and I hope they are brought to the dock, and hung, badly, in some American Nuremberg, not that I think that's likely. I find that day dreaming about Cheney's sentencing at such a proceeding is an effective temporary counter for outrage fatigue, as is imagining I'll live long enough to piss on the bastard's grave.

By: yerfatma

yerfatma — Wed, 21 Jun 2006 04:56:38 -0800

delmoi, I'm interested to know what does past muster in your household/ bunker. Nothing posted to Metafilter ever seems good enough. THE PLAIN PEOPLE OF IRELAND: The price of everything and the value of nothin', indeed

By: darren

darren — Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:09:04 -0800

Now you've done it Frontline. The Dark Lord will now have you in his sights. The bombing of PBS begins in 5, 4, 3, 2 ...

By: stbalbach

stbalbach — Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:51:40 -0800

"outrage fatigue"? They've won. You know, this stuff isn't meant to be for your entertainment. Or is it.

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Wed, 21 Jun 2006 09:26:52 -0800

Washington Post online chat with Michael Kirk, who produced the documentary. The PBS web site has the full interviews that were edited for the film.

By: feloniousmonk

feloniousmonk — Wed, 21 Jun 2006 11:50:28 -0800

Coincidence?

By: George_Spiggott

George_Spiggott — Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:20:20 -0800

in a debate that was colored by some Republicans' frustration with what they see as a liberal slant in public programming. Reality has a well-known liberal bias.

By: Enron Hubbard

Enron Hubbard — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:33:43 -0800

"outrage fatigue"? They've won. After five years of being the kid screaming that the the Emperor and all his cronies are bare assed naked, I'm getting a little fatigued myself. You know, this stuff isn't meant to be for your entertainment. Or is it. Most people can't tell the difference anyway.

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:03:31 -0800

PBS put the entire show online in Real and Windows Media.

By: bukharin

bukharin — Sat, 24 Jun 2006 12:29:06 -0800

delmoi, I'm interested to know what does past muster in your household/ bunker. Nothing posted to Metafilter ever seems good enough. He doesn't seem functionally capable of honing in on what's good, so he detonates these land-mines of insulting cynicism or scatters the topic with pointed distractions and hopes it will pass for discerning taste. It's best to ignore him and try not to let him set the tone of the thread.