Lay me down to sleep

July 5, 2006 7:23 AM

Ken Layis dead.
posted by The Jesse Helms (195 comments total)

Thus another vile traitor escapes justice. I suppose this is marginally better than if he had been allowed to continue to enjoy his ill-gotten riches.
posted by BigLankyBastard at 7:25 AM on July 5, 2006 [1 favorite]

Has anyone confirmed it was a heart attack, other than his spokesperson? Do we know if he's had heart problems in the past?
posted by brina at 7:26 AM on July 5, 2006

"Through early morning fog I see

visions of the things to be

the pains that are withheld for me..."
posted by bshort at 7:28 AM on July 5, 2006

Let's see if Bush can pardon him from this!
posted by the_bone at 7:30 AM on July 5, 2006

.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 7:30 AM on July 5, 2006

Let me be the first to say: Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:31 AM on July 5, 2006

If I was going to jail in two months for the rest of my life, I'd be eating filet mignon with bernaise for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. When in Aspen...
posted by Saucy Intruder at 7:31 AM on July 5, 2006

$
posted by null terminated at 7:32 AM on July 5, 2006

Holy cow.
posted by Plutor at 7:32 AM on July 5, 2006

I wanna see the body...

... just to be sure, y'know
posted by logicpunk at 7:32 AM on July 5, 2006

See? Old white men don't go to jail for the wrong doings. God protects them from that. Think if old white men were treated like everyone else, my God nothing would get done and you'd have minorities in positions of power!

From the documentary, "Smartest Guys in the Room", I actually felt pity for Ken Lay. He seemed to have no idea what he was going was wrong. Most dangerously, he believed his own lies.
posted by geoff. at 7:34 AM on July 5, 2006

When reading the link, I thought it was suicide and felt sort of sorry for him. Then, the first line of the OP's NYT link has the word vacation home in it.

I'm sure the investors he defrauded and the workers whose lives he ruined would love to die in a vacation home.

To bad it (the cause of death) too quick for him to renounce his actions or show pity for the lives he ruined though. As it ends, he will have went out maintaining his innocence. Or rather, Jeff Skilling did it.

Do crooks get a stone too?
posted by skepticallypleased at 7:35 AM on July 5, 2006

Seriously, if only it could have been "burned to death, en route to eternal burning in the hereafter." What a cock.
posted by jonson at 7:36 AM on July 5, 2006

!
posted by farishta at 7:37 AM on July 5, 2006

Well god bless his little heart.
posted by thirteenkiller at 7:38 AM on July 5, 2006

I don't think kenny Boy was built for prison. Kinda like Beaumont Livingston.
posted by jsavimbi at 7:38 AM on July 5, 2006

See ya. Wouldn't wanna be ya.
posted by EarBucket at 7:39 AM on July 5, 2006

Pretty clever post title, TJM. I laughed in spite of myself.
posted by pardonyou? at 7:39 AM on July 5, 2006

Bush can pardon posthumously. Actually it will be far easier to pardon him now.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:40 AM on July 5, 2006

Well god bless his little heart.

He had one?
posted by eriko at 7:40 AM on July 5, 2006

x
posted by Jaybo at 7:41 AM on July 5, 2006

I wonder if these folks can put him in a one of these*?

Wait, is that mean?

*sort of nsfw
posted by Sprout the Vulgarian at 7:43 AM on July 5, 2006

Good luck with that whole "rotting in hell" thing, Kenny.
posted by freq at 7:44 AM on July 5, 2006

Aside from much-photographed walks to and from the courthouse, which spurred one angry onlooker to call the couple Barbie and Ken, Linda is perhaps most remembered in Houston for an ill-received appearance on the "Today" show in January 2002, weeks after Enron filed for bankruptcy and cut thousands of jobs.

She cried as she told an interviewer that the couple had been wiped out financially. "It's gone. There's nothing left," she said. Later, her husband would testify that they were $250,000 in the hole.

Four years after being "wiped out":

Enron's founder and chairman, Kenneth L. Lay, died of a heart attack at his vacation home in Colorado, according to his spokeswoman.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 7:45 AM on July 5, 2006

"From this day forward, Ken Lay no longer exists. Say hello to Miguel Sanchez!"

You just know there's a new dude in Placencia, Belize sitting on the beach drinking pina coladas with Whitey Bulger. And a cleaned-up homeless guy's carcass in an ornate casket in Colorado.
posted by Mayor Curley at 7:45 AM on July 5, 2006

Well god bless his little heart.

He had one?

I think it was two sizes too small.
posted by phirleh at 7:47 AM on July 5, 2006

Miguel!
posted by matteo at 7:47 AM on July 5, 2006

He'll be bunking with Milosevic.
posted by fungible at 7:49 AM on July 5, 2006

I am sure he is in a better place (for us).
posted by pointilist at 7:51 AM on July 5, 2006

Armitage Shanks writes "his vacation home in Colorado"

You don't know how wiped out a man can be in his vacation home in Colorado ; those bastards in mobile homes of redneck fame don't know.
posted by elpapacito at 7:52 AM on July 5, 2006

The fact that Kenneth Lay died in a vacation home of a heart attack shows there is no justice in this world.

. <- for Justice.

^^^^^^ <- Crackling flames of Hell for Ken Lay.
posted by unixrat at 7:56 AM on July 5, 2006

He don't got a doin' time disposition.
posted by tizzie at 7:56 AM on July 5, 2006

I don't think kenny Boy was built for prison. Kinda like Beaumont Livingston.

Louis: Who's Beaumont?
Ordell Robbie: An employee I had to let go.
Louis: What'd he do?
Ordell Robbie: He put himself in a position where he was going to have to do ten years in prison, that's what he did.

posted by kirkaracha at 7:59 AM on July 5, 2006

Honestly and truly, I am very cynical towards conspiracy theories.

Having said that, I want to see a fucking body. I want an autopsy. I wasn't involved at all in Enron and I want to see those things - I can't imagine what they would want. Just tell me it was cyanide. Tell me he sat in his garage. Tell me it was autoerotic asphyxiation. I am just .... that that bastard doesn't spend one day behind bars.
posted by cavalier at 7:59 AM on July 5, 2006

I wonder what will become of his estate now? Could his death serve to protect his family from being wiped out at the hands of creditors? (Not that they deserve anything they have right now...)
posted by thewittyname at 8:00 AM on July 5, 2006

[Ring ... Ring ...]

"Good morning, Houston Cardiologists, how can I help you? Oh hello, Mr. Skilling. A cardiac stress test? I'm sure we can schedule one for you soon."
posted by scblackman at 8:03 AM on July 5, 2006

I could see some hidden South American colony of these people (Lay, Jon-Benet's mom, etc, with space for OJ and Condit and all the others?)
posted by amberglow at 8:07 AM on July 5, 2006

I would love to personally escort Lay to an 8-by-10 cell that he could share with a tattooed dude who says, `Hi, my name is Spike, honey.'

--California Attorney General Bill Lockyer

I guess Lockyer won't be getting his prison rape wish.
posted by pardonyou? at 8:09 AM on July 5, 2006

Sadly, it seems that cmonkey has passed away at his Colorado vacation home.

.
posted by veedubya at 8:11 AM on July 5, 2006

I also would like to see body.
posted by keswick at 8:11 AM on July 5, 2006

Thus another vile traitor escapes justice.

Old white men don't go to jail for the wrong doings. God protects them from that.

The fact that Kenneth Lay died in a vacation home of a heart attack shows there is no justice in this world.

I am just .... that that bastard doesn't spend one day behind bars.

Let me get this straight -- Ken Lay is better off now than in prison? How on earth did he "escape justice"? He's DEAD, folks. You're acting like he's at Club Med, thumbing his nose at the justice system from the beach.

Justice was done when he was convicted.
posted by brain_drain at 8:12 AM on July 5, 2006

Ding dong the dick is dead?
posted by meh at 8:12 AM on July 5, 2006

Cue George Bush telling the nation what a fine man Ken Lay was.

brain_drain, he's in a better place if they let him into White Heaven.
posted by fenriq at 8:16 AM on July 5, 2006

The American Dream
posted by Meatbomb at 8:16 AM on July 5, 2006

Justice was done when he was convicted.
posted by brain_drain at 8:12 AM PST on July 5 [+fave]

Now this is gonna sound strange from me because I'm all about rehabilitation and correctional facility reform... ahem...

But when you're a dirty old stealing rich dude, I'm sorry, but being labelled "Guilty" and flying to your vacation home in Aspen is not justice. Losing all your posessions and spending 10 years in a cellblock reflecting on all the people you hurt would at least start to become something like that.

I'll admit I can't find the strength or ability to turn the other cheek or not cast the first stone. At any point in his life he could have stood up and say "Hey, wait, I'm not going to be evil today", but he didn't have the ability to do that. I was hoping for some long time in a box to see if he could figure out a way to say that.
posted by cavalier at 8:19 AM on July 5, 2006

I wonder where his wife was at the time of his death.
posted by astruc at 8:24 AM on July 5, 2006

It's a cover up. He committed suicide.
posted by GoodJob! at 8:28 AM on July 5, 2006

I'm not so sure that Ken Lay deserves all the vitriol and gleeful cackling. He was a horrible CEO, to be sure, but from what I read about the case, he inherited a really bad situation from Skilling and his real crime was not coming clean when he found out how fucked-up the company was.

There was nothing he could have done to save the company by the time he was in charge.
posted by empath at 8:28 AM on July 5, 2006

(I'm not saying he didn't deserve prison time. Just saying that cheering over the man's death isn't exactly called for)
posted by empath at 8:29 AM on July 5, 2006

Bullshit.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:30 AM on July 5, 2006

It's a cover up. He committed suicide.

GoodJob! is apparently posting from the scene. I look forward to more of your eyewitness reports, sir!
posted by pardonyou? at 8:34 AM on July 5, 2006

empath, he had 20 frickin' years.
posted by WolfDaddy at 8:34 AM on July 5, 2006

If it was good enough for Qusay, Uday, and Zarqawi...

I want to see his dead face on TV, just to be sure.
posted by Meatbomb at 8:35 AM on July 5, 2006

I assume that giving the eulogy is out of the question, but is Dubya still going to deny they were friends?
posted by kc8nod at 8:37 AM on July 5, 2006

Right, but wasn't Skilling the one in charge when all the shady, off-the-books stuff was done that took down the company? I could be wrong. Almost everything I know about the case is from listening to NPR reports on the trial.
posted by empath at 8:37 AM on July 5, 2006

I wonder how many of the people who lost their Enron pensions have gone on to commit suicide?
posted by OmieWise at 8:38 AM on July 5, 2006

First Patsy Ramsey, now Ken Lay.

Start sweating, George. The universe is catching up.
posted by davelog at 8:44 AM on July 5, 2006 [1 favorite]

I knew Ken Lay would never serve any jail time. Wonder where he's off to now that he's joined the Witness Relocation Program?
posted by Unregistered User at 8:45 AM on July 5, 2006

empath, as one of the people he continued intentionally screwing over, I am happily dancing on his grave. I'm glad the despicable bastard is dead.

Skilling's probably jealous of Lay's "easy" way out of prison time.

Besides, how much money are we gonna save by not putting Lay in rich white man's prison for 20 years?
posted by fenriq at 8:47 AM on July 5, 2006

.





Not really.
posted by Artw at 8:49 AM on July 5, 2006

Fenriq, I'd happily chip in a few more tax dollars a year for his stale bread and dark cell. Lay cheated us once again.

I honestly don't believe the official story.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:51 AM on July 5, 2006

Besides, how much money are we gonna save by not putting Lay in rich white man's prison for 20 years?

Who cares, when the entire federal budget is run on essentially the same principles as Enron was?

Buy and sell debt. Continue and escalate until total system failure.
posted by sonofsamiam at 8:53 AM on July 5, 2006

.

(he was an evil piece of shit, but he was a human being, and my condolences to the family)
posted by brundlefly at 8:57 AM on July 5, 2006

When he was convicted and sentenced, the state owns his body. We should demand an autopsy from an independent third-party, and the results should be put on public record.
posted by Mr. Six at 8:58 AM on July 5, 2006

Some additional details in the Denver Post.
posted by mattbucher at 9:00 AM on July 5, 2006

Wow!

Rot in hell, cocksucker.
posted by vito90 at 9:00 AM on July 5, 2006

Ken Lay is dead.

No, he's not.

"From this day forward, Ken Lay no longer exists. Say hello to Miguel Sanchez!"

You just know there's a new dude in Placencia, Belize sitting on the beach drinking pina coladas with Whitey Bulger. And a cleaned-up homeless guy's carcass in an ornate casket in Colorado.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:45 AM CST on July 5

Glad I'm not the only one that sprung IMMEDIATELY to mind. I just said that a moment ago to a friend, even the part about the homeless guy. Except I said Argentina.
posted by Ynoxas at 9:01 AM on July 5, 2006

Four years after being "wiped out":

Enron's founder and chairman, Kenneth L. Lay, died of a heart attack at his vacation home in Colorado, according to his spokeswoman.

And one new story reports that Colorado was the only place outside of Texas where he was allowed to travel. Oh, the humanity.

Still ... although relatively quick, a massive coronary isn't the most painless way to go.

[OT -- OTOH re: the dancing on Patty Ramsey's grave here -- Although that whole case remains suspicious, she was never tried let along convicted. (And as someone who has a family history of ovarian cancer, and who just had some tests to make sure everything's OK with my female plumbing, the celebrating of her death squicks me out a bit. Now *that's* a crappy way to go no matter who you are.)]
posted by NorthernLite at 9:01 AM on July 5, 2006 [1 favorite]

How could he pull that off, Ynoxas? He was broke!

/sarcasm

/got his "." in, and feels free to snark
posted by brundlefly at 9:03 AM on July 5, 2006

I certainly hope he committed suicide after wallowing for months in a state of intense fear. Also, that his attempt was not entirely successful, and he ultimately had to be "helped along".
posted by stinkycheese at 9:09 AM on July 5, 2006

When he was convicted and sentenced, the state owns his body...

He hadn't been sentenced.
posted by juiceCake at 9:15 AM on July 5, 2006

"An official at Enron said because of downsizing, there is no one at the company who could comment about the death."
WTF? They downsized their only "Death Commenting-On Guy?" Couldn't they outsource that to a call center in India or something? A position like that is too important to just eliminate.
posted by Floydd at 9:17 AM on July 5, 2006

You're right. My fault.
posted by Mr. Six at 9:18 AM on July 5, 2006

I hope he had painful kidney stones the size of golf balls lodged in his urethra, and that his flesh was being consumed by bacteria that exposed his raw nerve endings, and that he had a brain aneurysm that didn't kill him, but took away his ability to communicate the depth of his pain so he could neither plead for help or mercy.

Wow, this is fun!
posted by pardonyou? at 9:18 AM on July 5, 2006

.
posted by nola at 9:24 AM on July 5, 2006

God bless, are we a cynical, guileless and disrespectful lot or what? ...I love it.

I'm not currently of the opinion that our country's judicial system works anyway. Even if he lived out his full term in prison, what would that have proven? Even if he did publically admit wrongdoing and remorse for his actions or inactions as CEO, how would that remedy the damage that had been done to countless employees and stockholders and the credibility of a once proud corporation? Damage done. Had we drawn and quartered his body before death, it wouldn't have mattered. It won't stop others in the future from trying similar behavior. It's not stopping guileless behavior now. Lay's only true crime different from that of many others now in power, is that he got caught.

If I could see evidence that rehabilitation worked, that punishment was a deterrent, I'd differ my opinion, but most if not all judicial reaction to criminal behavior is too little too late, and we can't do more than we do without risking punishing the innocent. Some argue we do that now. The system isn't working. This Enron fiasco is just the latest in a long line of examples proving that point.

So celebrate over his dead body all you want. I'm mourning this day, not for him, but for it.
posted by ZachsMind at 9:25 AM on July 5, 2006

They downsized their only "Death Commenting-On Guy?


maybe they killed him
posted by matteo at 9:27 AM on July 5, 2006

So, just to get a spark off those tinfoil hats, would anybody care to speculate who Lay could've rolled over on, if he'd tried to make a deal with the prosecutor? Particularly, anyone with the required skills to "induce" a heart attack (or induce a press cover up to make it look like a cover up).

Of course, I'm just being paranoid (but that's worked out pretty well for me in the past).
posted by doctor_negative at 9:32 AM on July 5, 2006

"An official at Enron said because of downsizing, there is no one at the company who could comment about the death."

Fortunately there was someone qualified to comment on non-commenting however...

Yeah, it's an oddly comical response - is there no one left who cares enough to come up with something or are they just gittin' at little publicity shy what with all the goin's on, the massive financial fraud 'n whatnot. I find it hard to believe there aren't non-downsized people still in that company who had something to do with enabling this fiasco.
posted by scheptech at 9:36 AM on July 5, 2006

ZachsMind: I agree with your sentiment, but I'll not mourn. I hope someday we treat this like a baseball game. Lay was a pitcher who drilled our best batter. That means we get to pick out some other asshole corporate CEO and just drill a high hard one at him.

It may sound like a crazy reaction but I've developed a heart of stone. My American Dream TM (c) has turned into a nightmare.
posted by ?! at 9:37 AM on July 5, 2006

So, just to get a spark off those tinfoil hats, would anybody care to speculate who Lay could've rolled over on, if he'd tried to make a deal with the prosecutor? Particularly, anyone with the required skills to "induce" a heart attack (or induce a press cover up to make it look like a cover up).

There are plenty in the executive branch who have intimate connections with and have made great profits from the energy industry.
posted by Mr. Six at 9:41 AM on July 5, 2006

When Reagan died, I hoped that Nancy wasn't too traumatized and left it at that.

I hope similarly for Kenneth Lay's close and extended family. Death is never easy for those who are left behind. It's the great equalizer.
posted by kalessin at 9:41 AM on July 5, 2006

the autopsy to come will tell us what we want to know!
posted by clyde at 9:50 AM on July 5, 2006

So where does this weepy stop? Should I have shed that tear for Milosovic? He was a selfish asshole who cheated, stole, and ruined countless lives.
posted by cytherea at 9:51 AM on July 5, 2006

What weepy?
posted by kalessin at 9:58 AM on July 5, 2006 [1 favorite]

Nola and Monju... please don't disgrace the use of the "." by using it here.
posted by AspectRatio at 10:03 AM on July 5, 2006

Fuck you Ken Lay, for dying before you could rot in jail.
posted by baphomet at 10:04 AM on July 5, 2006

There was nothing he could have done to save the company by the time he was in charge.
posted by empath at 11:28 AM EST on July 5 [+fave] [!]

Yeah best not to rock the boat and you know, "stay the course" as these Texans (or wannabe Texans) like to say.

Anyhow, no need to feel cheated folks, I'm sure he suffered plenty. I imagine it's not so easy to go from being a mega-rich CEO, venerated by everyone from the president down, to being the poster boy for corporate corruption.
posted by Skygazer at 10:06 AM on July 5, 2006

The Lay family organ,you want chips with that?
posted by hortense at 10:07 AM on July 5, 2006

So the slimy little bastard has dodged justice. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but I want to see a full autopsy with toxicology screen. I wouldn't put it past him to have a little potassium chloride in there.
posted by chimaera at 10:15 AM on July 5, 2006

Death schmeath, he's sippin martinis on a private jet to his off-shore tax shelter / vacation home on a remote island shaped like an E.
posted by bukharin at 10:16 AM on July 5, 2006

See? Old white men don't go to jail for the wrong doings. - geoff.

You forgot the rich part. Poor white men can go to jail.

When he was convicted and sentenced, the state owns his body. - Mr. Six

Thing is, he wasn't going to be sentenced until October 23rd. That's why he was at his vacation home, and not in jail.
posted by raedyn at 10:24 AM on July 5, 2006

I remember having a bit of sympathy for the guy when Enron went down, literally--things got out of hand, and he struck me as a fairly incompetent, clueless scapegoat, but a legally guilty one all the same. But then there was an interview with him where made the point that it was really important for him to go out in public and eat in the same fancy restaurants he was used to (and that his former employees could never hope to afford, ever) because he was Kenny-boy Lay, dammit, friend of the president, master of industry, cock of the capitalistic walk, and he wasn't going to run and cower, no sir.

And I thought to myself, this is pretty much the moral equivalent of OJ, except he screwed over thousands of people (including many elderly retirees who I can only assume had to get service jobs to make ends meet) whereas the Juice only murdered two.

Sympathies for his family, and more importantly for those he helped to fuck over.
posted by bardic at 10:27 AM on July 5, 2006

I admit I'm jealous of his ticker. I would've liked a chance to attack him, too.
posted by maryh at 10:30 AM on July 5, 2006

De mortuis nil nisi bonum.
posted by paddbear at 10:41 AM on July 5, 2006

empath writes "He was a horrible CEO, to be sure, but from what I read about the case, he inherited a really bad situation from Skilling and his real crime was not coming clean when he found out how fucked-up the company was."

I think you're giving him the benefit of the doubt in a huge way here. Lay was a founder of Enron, not some guy recruited from some other company to be CEO. What seems to be the case is that he was one of those country-club CEOs who isn't worried about the state of his company as long as the share price keeps him rich.

If the problem was caused by Skilling, Lay should have been concerned enough about the real health of the company to look at things a little more closely. At some point a CEO should be expected to be aware enough to realize that the figures he sees simply don't make sense.
posted by clevershark at 10:42 AM on July 5, 2006

the credibility of a once proud corporation?

I think you're thinking more of Tyco or Adelphia. From all that I have read, Enron was almost by design a company set up to fleece investors and consumers alike. Not that most of the rank-and-file could have known this, but it seemed that their very business model was corrupt almost from day one.
posted by psmealey at 10:50 AM on July 5, 2006

And they laugh and laugh...

Cheney Bets Against the Dollar ...

Let em eat dirt...
posted by Unregistered User at 10:52 AM on July 5, 2006

AspectRatio: "Nola and Monju... please don't disgrace the use of the "." by using it here."

Whatever. Please excuse me if I don't jerk off on a dead man's grave.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 11:05 AM on July 5, 2006

AspectRatio I recommend:


*
with thanks to Kurt Vonnegut
posted by pointilist at 11:09 AM on July 5, 2006

"De mortuis nil nisi bonum."

Nonsense.

Ex malis moribus bonae leges natae sunt.
posted by sindark at 11:11 AM on July 5, 2006

Ken Lay is NOT the first Enron executive to kick off suddenly.
posted by Unregistered User at 11:12 AM on July 5, 2006

except he screwed over thousands of people (including many elderly retirees who I can only assume had to get service jobs to make ends meet)

What about the elderly peole who quit their service jobs and sold the stock before it cratered?

And while I support jail for fraudsters, and agree that the employees deserve sympathy, I don't entertain for a second the notion that I should feel bad for the investors, because for Enron to have wiped them out, they would have had to have been greedy or foolish. There are resons that stocks carry a risk premium, there are reasons that garden-variety planners preach diversification, and there are reasons to look critically at any investment that goes from 20 to 90 over the course of three years.
posted by Kwantsar at 11:17 AM on July 5, 2006

I'm sure there were plenty of investors who made a killing, especially those who were privy to illegal information, thanks to crooks like Skilling who were selling stock while telling the peons to hang onto it.

No, my sympathies were directed towards the retirees and close-to-retirees. If some people outside the company got rich on the stock, more power to them I guess.
posted by bardic at 11:25 AM on July 5, 2006

Someone earlier asked about the effect of Lay's death on his family's remaining fortunes. As it turns out, under Fifth Circuit precedent, Lay's death extinguishes the criminal case against him under appeal, preserves his estate against the forfeiture action, and may even create an estoppel argument that plaintiffs in the civil case cannot use his conviction as any evidence in the civil case against him (now, presumably, against his estate).
posted by monju_bosatsu at 11:30 AM on July 5, 2006

Lay's death extinguishes the criminal case against him under appeal, preserves his estate against the forfeiture action, and may even create an estoppel argument that plaintiffs in the civil case cannot use his conviction as any evidence in the civil case against him (now, presumably, against his estate).

anger.... rising.....
posted by cavalier at 11:32 AM on July 5, 2006

Ex malis moribus bonae leges natae sunt.
(From bad ways/customs good laws were born.)

Um, do you mean from bad deaths? Wouldn't that be a different latin word?

I think that speaking ill of the dead is pretty tactless. I hope you do too.
posted by kalessin at 11:33 AM on July 5, 2006

There are resons that stocks carry a risk premium

what about pension funds, K-boy?


Please excuse me if I don't jerk off on a dead man's grave

only because you shot your wad on Zarqawi's
posted by matteo at 11:33 AM on July 5, 2006

only because you shot your wad on Zarqawi's

WTF are you on about now?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 11:34 AM on July 5, 2006

poor hitler.

what a way to go, eh?

shot to death in a bunker. poor guy.
posted by StrasbourgSecaucus at 11:35 AM on July 5, 2006

kalessin

I think Lay's death is completely irrelevant to our individual, legal, and societal judgments about him. The facts of what he did exist quite independently of when his heart failed.
posted by sindark at 11:35 AM on July 5, 2006

There are resons that stocks carry a risk premium

what about pension funds, K-boy?

What about pension funds, matteo?
posted by Kwantsar at 11:35 AM on July 5, 2006

I think that speaking ill of the dead is pretty tactless.

I've never had a dead guy tell me it was bothering him.

L I G H T E N   U P.
posted by StrasbourgSecaucus at 11:37 AM on July 5, 2006

Lay may not have sung at trial, but there remains his under-examined role in Dick Cheney's still secretive Energy Task Force. (It was on Lay's recommendation that Bush appointed Cheney to the position.) Nor can he now be brought out for testimony...
posted by Unregistered User at 11:40 AM on July 5, 2006

*

good riddance to that scumbag asshole
posted by reality at 11:45 AM on July 5, 2006

Hitler was a "genocidal fuckhead" (Eddie Izzard). Lay was a dickhead capitalist. They did horrible things, and good on ya for invoking Godwin's law.

Still, I will not celebrate their deaths, nor the misery that death brings to families/loved ones.

I'll lighten up when we're not beating our chests about the death of our enemy.
posted by kalessin at 11:53 AM on July 5, 2006

"Even if he did publically admit wrongdoing and remorse for his actions or inactions as CEO, how would that remedy the damage that had been done to countless employees and stockholders and the credibility of a once proud corporation?"

He'd have been a Willie Horton to trot out any time that the Big Business politicians started talking about deregulation. Now common courtesy kinda removes his face from political handbills.
posted by klangklangston at 11:56 AM on July 5, 2006

I'll lighten up when we're not beating our chests about the death of our enemy.

Then at least shut up. Morality lessons are annoying.
posted by StrasbourgSecaucus at 11:57 AM on July 5, 2006

I'll shut up after you, StrasbourgSecaucus.
posted by kalessin at 11:58 AM on July 5, 2006

kalessin,

This distinction is important: I am not celebrating the man's death. I would rather have seen him serve the sentence for the crimes he was convicted of - just like Milosevic.

I am stating that death does not wipe clean his moral slate. We can assess him and proclaim him guilty or innocent in a way that has nothing to do with whether he is alive or not. To automatically shield the dead from criticism is to forego any chance of learning from the past.
posted by sindark at 12:02 PM on July 5, 2006

I am stating that death does not wipe clean his moral slate. We can assess him and proclaim him guilty or innocent in a way that has nothing to do with whether he is alive or not. To automatically shield the dead from criticism is to forego any chance of learning from the past.

Indeed,


Interestingly "respect for the family" is appreciated not only by CNN but the NY Department of Justice who are not releasing the details of the reprecussions of his death on the numerous civil suits against him , out of that very respect.

The past indeed.
posted by Unregistered User at 12:05 PM on July 5, 2006

As it turns out, under Fifth Circuit precedent, Lay's death extinguishes the criminal case against him under appeal, preserves his estate against the forfeiture action, and may even create an estoppel argument that plaintiffs in the civil case cannot use his conviction as any evidence in the civil case against him - monju_bosatsu

That seems wrong. Yet if I remove the current situation, I can see why this is. At the same time, it makes this seem more suspicious, even though it might just be a un/fortunate coincidence.
posted by raedyn at 12:08 PM on July 5, 2006

i sure hope his family doesn't read metafilter and get sad.
posted by StrasbourgSecaucus at 12:09 PM on July 5, 2006

* Wanders into the room late, reads cursorily, looks around for a nice piece moral high ground to stake out in order to be better than everyone else. Spots a nice elevated patch, but sees kalessin already camped out on it. Leaves.*
posted by George_Spiggott at 12:11 PM on July 5, 2006

Strasb.Sec.: Hitler was not shot. He took a cyanide/hemlock cocktail and THEN he shot himself in the head for good measure. Ken Lay did the exact same thing and the family is keeping it hush-hush with the ole heart attack excuse if u know what I mean.
posted by GoodJob! at 12:15 PM on July 5, 2006

@StrasbourgSecaucus

Tell that to my now destitute SSI/SSDI 82 year old cat food eatting gran-mother...

She was naive, --I'll give you that-- in her investments, she trusted her broker w/a stubborness...

Now she gets to choose which retirement home to live in, meanwhile her broker, he just put a down payment on a new speedboat, and can't be reached by phone, nor return calls.
posted by Unregistered User at 12:19 PM on July 5, 2006

Hitler was not shot. He took a cyanide/hemlock cocktail and THEN he shot himself in the head for good measure

yeah and you were there.

nice job and timing yes? Lays' "Heart attack" i mean.

heh, his Intel buddies could not put him back together again.

GOOD BYE KENNY.....
posted by clavdivs at 12:20 PM on July 5, 2006

Now she gets to choose which retirement home to live in, meanwhile her broker, he just put a down payment on a new speedboat, and can't be reached by phone, nor return calls.

Sounds to me like the problem is with the broker.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 12:21 PM on July 5, 2006

Of course Kenny Boys good friend George will be attending the funeral
posted by mss at 12:43 PM on July 5, 2006

Ken Lay Lives!
posted by monju_bosatsu at 12:44 PM on July 5, 2006

posted by squalor at 12:48 PM on July 5, 2006

Oil closed over $75 a barrel in NY today. I'm sure the irony of Ken Lay missing seeing that psychobenchmark by one day isn't lost on laughing baby Jebus...
posted by paulsc at 12:49 PM on July 5, 2006

I can see the obits now:

Ken Lay: The Stiffest Guy In The Room.
posted by horsewithnoname at 12:51 PM on July 5, 2006

"kynical irony" ? monju_bosatsu ?
posted by Unregistered User at 1:00 PM on July 5, 2006

I celebrate no man’s death, that said, this is not justice. Particularly after reading monju_bosatsu ‘s post: “...Lay's death extinguishes the criminal case against him under appeal, preserves his estate against the forfeiture action, and may even create an estoppel argument that plaintiffs in the civil case...”
Which is one of several reasons I would never kill a politician or other idiot (but I’m being redundant) that I disagree with. It is not their death that will solve the problem. The system to retain ilicitly obtained wealth/capitol is too complex and a redress of these types of crimes require more effort and thought than one man’s death can resolve. (Which, really, is a shame, ‘cause I’m a pretty good shot.)
But yeah, first thing to come to my mind was disbelief: LA Style!
“Ken-Lay-is-dead,
Mass hysteria, this is techno
House is not my home but it rocks though
I checked up on the late great Ken Lay
His death is said on national TVay
How when, and why this are the main
Things that I heard when I stroll down the lake
Now memory, man are you with that
Ken-Lay-is-dead
Total chaos, man it’s resurrected
I’m confused that things are gettin’ hectic
In my brain, what is happenin’
Could this be a big misunderstanding
It is
The hardest working man in Enron-is alive so
Don’t be mislead, cause the newsman said
Ken-Lay-is-dead.”
posted by Smedleyman at 1:06 PM on July 5, 2006

Has the will been read? Did he leave anything for the people he robbed?
*not sending flowers until after the willl has been read, and maybe not then either*
posted by Cranberry at 1:36 PM on July 5, 2006

No, no no no, he's outside. Looking in.
posted by hal9k at 1:44 PM on July 5, 2006

Dick Cheney, who has had seven heart attacks, still lives.

Ken Lay, with access to even better health care than Cheney and healthy as a mule, dead at 64.

Hmmmmmm.

A) The man is not really dead as Mayor Curley stated.

B) Or. If he is dead he was made dead. He knew too much. He had too many important friends on the brink and one scandal away from career catastrophe and prison.

I want a coroners report, pictures and a DNA test of the body.

Then I want somebody to drive fucking stake through the thing just to be safe.

The hat I am wearing is mylar. Tin foil went out decades ago.
posted by tkchrist at 1:45 PM on July 5, 2006

Mylar is the tinfoil of the RFID age.
posted by sonofsamiam at 1:52 PM on July 5, 2006

People do sometimes die unexpectedly of heart attacks.
posted by thirteenkiller at 1:57 PM on July 5, 2006

I too would like a very public autopsy. I suppose a head on a pike outside of the NYSE would be too much to ask for.
posted by Artful Codger at 1:57 PM on July 5, 2006

People do sometimes die unexpectedly of heart attacks. - thirteenkiller

This is true.
posted by raedyn at 2:02 PM on July 5, 2006

Ken Lay just before he died:

Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the lord my soul to keep.
For if I die before I wake,
I'll watch down on ya Skillin' and laugh,
'cause it's just u now,
to carry the mighty Enron ache.
posted by GoodJob! at 2:08 PM on July 5, 2006

mylar is the new black
posted by I, Credulous at 2:09 PM on July 5, 2006

I've only seen the first half hour of "the smartest guys in the room" but...
Skilling's determination to use "mark to market" accounting practice (FUTURE profits from FUTURE sales were included as profits TODAY, hence inflating the value of the company) should have been a warning sign to any reasonably intelligent person that Enron was designed to fleece and defraud.
If Ken Lay couldn't see that that was the path to doom and possible jail time, well, he wasn't as smart as people though he was...
That said, I'm with the conspiracy theorists: he was wacked; or he's living it up in a private enclave somewhere the USA doesn't have an extradition treaty with...watch his wife's moves in the next few months :)
posted by I, Credulous at 2:14 PM on July 5, 2006

Do you want your possessions identified?
posted by hoverboards don't work on water at 2:16 PM on July 5, 2006

Seems like there's some "confusion" over on Wikipedia
posted by TheDonF at 2:27 PM on July 5, 2006

Skilling's determination to use "mark to market" accounting practice (FUTURE profits from FUTURE sales were included as profits TODAY, hence inflating the value of the company) should have been a warning sign to any reasonably intelligent person that Enron was designed to fleece and defraud.

Well, no. Marking to market is totally fine when there's a market price to mark to (and the practice is disclosed to investors). If you bought a stock for $20, and you could sell it for $50, you wouldn't say that it was worth $20. If your bank wanted to know what you were worth to determine whether it should give you a loan, it would mark your stock to market, and rightfully so.

The problem Enron encountered is that it was marking exotic and/or illiquid positions to a Daedalian, synthetic, model-based market. This works fine when you're pricing vanilla options, but marking your dollarized equity-linked Russian inverse floaters with attached warrants to market is probably a bad idea.
posted by Kwantsar at 2:34 PM on July 5, 2006

People do sometimes die unexpectedly of heart attacks.

Aw. No they don't. Everybody knows th....

GAAAAAAK!











(Ok. Yes. I expect you to believe I bothered to type "GAAAAK" as I had my heart attack. It could happen.)
posted by tkchrist at 2:35 PM on July 5, 2006

tkchrist, NOOOOOOO!

Why god why!


(on preview: ah. I have gullibled.)
posted by sonofsamiam at 2:39 PM on July 5, 2006

That "Confusion on wikipedia" article is about the stupidest thing ever...
posted by Artw at 2:44 PM on July 5, 2006

Smedley— Hey man, cut that jive, James Brown is still alive!
posted by klangklangston at 3:00 PM on July 5, 2006

That "Confusion on wikipedia" article is about the stupidest thing ever... - Artw

Editable website gets edited. Film at 11.
posted by raedyn at 3:02 PM on July 5, 2006

Laugh hard
It's a long way to the bank
posted by Football Bat at 3:10 PM on July 5, 2006

I pity the revlatives - what with the cruel and punitive inheritance tax I bet they'll barely get a few millions of dollars worth of assets.
posted by Artw at 3:26 PM on July 5, 2006

"I came to this town with only a dream. A dream and barely 2 million dollars of my grand pappy's inheritance to may name. And I made it. It took a little hard work and a few bribes. But I made it."

-Ken Lay Jr. III
2028 Autobiography
posted by tkchrist at 3:36 PM on July 5, 2006

This just HAS to be savored:

Reuters.


In Washington, White House spokesman Tony Snow said he had not spoken to Bush about Lay's death, but distanced the president from the former Enron chief who was once a major contributor to the Bushes' political campaigns.

"The president has described Ken Lay as an acquaintance, and many of the president's acquaintances have passed on during his time in office," Snow told reporters.

---

It does not get any better than that.

"... many of the president's acquaintances have passed on during his time in office."

Man...you can say THAT again.

And a lot of his non-acquaintances, too.

Many, MANY of them quite unexpectedly.

Further, It looks at though his conviction and indictment may be expunged.

Read the analysis here

Will this have effect on pending civil litigation to his 'estate'?

Wanna bet?
posted by Unregistered User at 4:11 PM on July 5, 2006

Kwantsar: oh, man, that just makes my head ache...but thanks for amplifying my simplistic interpretation.
posted by I, Credulous at 4:16 PM on July 5, 2006

How does one work out a deal where you are convicted, then get 6 months to just hang out with your family and whatnot before being sentenced?
posted by glycolized at 4:18 PM on July 5, 2006

Unregistered User has it.

Sorry I'm late to the party; People seem to be missing the fact that since Lay died before sentencing and appeals, his conviction will likely be expunged. It follows from there that his assests will not, therefore, be eligible for seizure.

Convenient!
posted by Justinian at 4:19 PM on July 5, 2006

Just saw a news blurb on a local NBC affiliate... the report closed with a helpful bulleted list, including the following (roughly):

* a person is not convicted until s/he is sentenced

* unprecedented to levy fine against estate of a person not-convicted

Well, good timing for the Lay estate, it seems.
posted by Unregistered User at 4:23 PM on July 5, 2006

There better be an autopsy.
posted by Justinian at 4:33 PM on July 5, 2006

hahaha..

"We believe that God is, in fact, in control - and indeed HE does work all things for good for those who love the Lord. And we love our Lord, and ultimately all of these things will work for good."~Ken Lay

p.s.

will have to see how this plays out obviously, but am amazed how the media (including big guns like the NYT and washpo) take the "sudden massive heart attack" idea and run with it.

looks like it was a pastor (incorrectly identified as a doctor on RAW) who is saying "massive coronary" and "his heart simply gave out." no comment from anyone in the medical field yet.

the more responsible thing would be to say at least "apparent" heart attack, as it is difficult to know unless a treating physician speaks up or until the autopsy is performed. and certainly the circumstances are suspicious.....

btw, since when are Pastors capable of doing autopsies and toxicologies?
posted by Unregistered User at 4:36 PM on July 5, 2006

I could see some hidden South American colony of these people (Lay, Jon-Benet's mom, etc, with space for OJ and Condit and all the others?)

I got a vision of these people all hanging out in a aAtlas Shrugged-style colony, with a 101-year-old Ayn Rand, and all convincing themselves that without them, the world will grind to a screeching halt. And got the giggles.
posted by orange swan at 5:12 PM on July 5, 2006

and certainly the circumstances are suspicious.....

Yes, a 64-year-old man under heavy stress dying of a heart attack. Very suspicious!
posted by pardonyou? at 5:27 PM on July 5, 2006

Oh, and from AP:

Dr. Robert Kurtzman, Mesa County Coroner, said his autopsy showed Lay died of heart disease while on vacation in Aspen, Colo.

Does this placate anyone, or is Mesa County Coroner Dr. Kurtzman in on this big scam, too?
posted by pardonyou? at 5:34 PM on July 5, 2006

Good riddance to a scummy, crooked, avaricious capitalist piece of shit. I only wish he'd suffered more.
posted by Decani at 5:37 PM on July 5, 2006

kalessin writes "Death is never easy for those who are left behind. It's the great equalizer."


Yeah indeed one still can't escape it, yet there still is a difference in death : some die in misery, alone, suffering ..others die in their resort. Which suggest me the whole difference is in how one lived the life , which in turn suggest me I shouldn't bother myself with how others live, rather I should live my life to the best.

Which in turns suggest me that, cynically, I want to see the very dead body of Kenneth Lay and throw it in molten lead for a good measure of making sure he is dead, after doing some rigorous DNA testing.

Yet we shouldn't be distracted by chasing ghost of felons , rather we should focus on how the fuck the system managed to ALLOW Enron scandal. This movie (torrent) pretty much describes how it all happened, even if in some point it's "deeply" superficial

Decani writes "I only wish he'd suffered more"

Uh yeah schadenfreude fest indeed, but what I wish is that not that no more Lays are born (impossible), but that they are stopped before they can do significant mass damages...so as long as they lose their own money, it's fair game.
posted by elpapacito at 6:06 PM on July 5, 2006

I tried to find any listing or pictures of the vacation home and came up with zip. I have found several site showing his vacation home in the 10-14 million dollar range.

He is not penny less. If he had children, my sympathies.
posted by fluffycreature at 6:31 PM on July 5, 2006

Well, I guess that's one less pardon Gdub'll have to write.
posted by graventy at 7:14 PM on July 5, 2006

He's alive! ALIIIIVE!!!
posted by loquacious at 7:39 PM on July 5, 2006

"The sudden death of Kenneth L. Lay on Wednesday may have spared his survivors financial ruin. Mr. Lay's death effectively voids the guilty verdict against him, temporarily thwarting the federal government's efforts to seize his remaining real estate and financial assets, legal experts say."
posted by The Jesse Helms at 7:57 PM on July 5, 2006

I wonder how much life insurance he had.
posted by kimdog at 8:19 PM on July 5, 2006

I got a vision of these people all hanging out in a aAtlas Shrugged-style colony, with a 101-year-old Ayn Rand, and all convincing themselves that without them, the world will grind to a screeching halt. And got the giggles.

Gooble gobble, gooble gobble! One of us! One of us!

(From Freaks, via South Park)
posted by JHarris at 8:51 PM on July 5, 2006

Tom Hagen: When a plot against the Emperor failed...the plotters were always given a chance...to let their families keep their fortunes. Right?
Frank Pentangeli: Yeah, but only the rich guys, Tom. The little guys got knocked off and all their estates went to the Emperors. Unless they went home and killed themselves, then nothing happened. And the families...the families were taken care of.
Tom Hagen: That was a good break. A nice deal.
Frank Pentangeli: Yeah...They went home...and sat in a hot bath...opened up their veins...and bled to death...and sometimes they had a little party before they did it.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:11 PM on July 5, 2006

The Anonymous Lawyer eulogizes Ken Lay.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 9:23 PM on July 5, 2006

My two cents: good riddance.

Yet...how many secrets did he take with him?
posted by rougy at 10:05 PM on July 5, 2006

Christ, take off your tinfoil hats, kids. They're doing a toxicology check on the body. I'm pretty sure that it would be noticed if there was some nefarious switch conducted somewhere. Dude was old.

Also, the people cheering his death -- wow. Let's save that stuff for, say, the gang-founder-multiple-murderer-death-penalty threads, huh? The failure in the system was in oversight, and that should be fixed. Fine. But I'd like to think that we're above wishing bloody revenge on the evil. We're above that. ...Right?
posted by spiderwire at 11:27 PM on July 5, 2006

Bah! I wish bloody revenge on dudes who look like they're about to run over me with their SUVs. I wish bloody revenge on whichever force of evil came up with those "Head On! Apply directly to the forehead!" commercials. Wishing bloody revenge is my everyday. What I don't do is act on it, or act towards making a society where real-life bloody revenge is encouraged, because that's a miserable state of existence. And I have little respect for people who use the internet as a platform to bask in their own piety. So yeah, Ken Lay? Hope it hurt.
posted by furiousthought at 12:00 AM on July 6, 2006

Quotations from AllPoetry's Loathful Eulogies (an anthology is sorely needed)

For years you wandered a lonely earth,
plaguing everything and all you met...
I will always Cherish the bitterness I held for you,
You gave my bad intentions purpose and the devil in me joy...

© Golden Afternoon

and

May he squirm in eternal damnation

May snails leave their slurpings all over your grave. May birds congregate and excrete enthusiastically on your tombstone and splatter your name with white flecks of digested grubs.

© Vanilla Ashes
posted by nickyskye at 12:09 AM on July 6, 2006

I cry conspiracy. Of course I have no proof, but I remember reading a Time or Newsweek article about Lay that mentioned how he was a health nut. There was a picture of him working out sans shirt, and the guy was positively buff. And this was only a few years ago. (Still trying to find a pic of that online).

Is it possible that he had a heart attack? Of course: it's gotta be pretty stressfull knowing you're about to go to a pound-me-in-the-ass prison. But if you're as connected as Lay was (is?), would it really be so hard to take a chartered flight to some low-key country, get some plastic surgery, and lay very very low for the rest of your life? Given the track record of this administration--not even counting any previous conspiracy theories as true-- isn't it possible that Bush and Co. would do right by ol' Kenny Boy?

Other theories: he was a suicide. Just as believeable as a heart attack, maybe moreso. Or he was knocked off. Don't really see what that would accomplish, though.

/takes off tinfoil hat
posted by zardoz at 1:19 AM on July 6, 2006

My heart goes out to Mrs. Lay. She's had a ringside seat for all the Enron scandal; has had to watch the man she's presumably loved get accused, tried and convicted; and now she's suddenly facing her twilight years alone.

That's assuming she's not a venal bitch who's gonna go out and rent 19-year-old gigolos by the hour to break up the day between morning and afternoon shopping sprees...
posted by pax digita at 3:30 AM on July 6, 2006

In a barroom conversation, somebody once suggested to me that if you can get to somebody's prescription capsules of whatever description and empty a few, then replace the contents with salt substitute, the potassium chloride OD would be sufficient to induce a coronary in an otherwise healthy person.

/doffs tinfoil headgear
posted by pax digita at 4:48 AM on July 6, 2006

Also, the people cheering his death -- wow. Let's save that stuff for, say, the gang-founder-multiple-murderer-death-penalty threads, huh? The failure in the system was in oversight, and that should be fixed. Fine. But I'd like to think that we're above wishing bloody revenge on the evil. We're above that. ...Right?

I agree, but your comment doesn't seem to put you above it, but rather somewhere below the surface...
posted by fairmettle at 5:42 AM on July 6, 2006

Oh my God, they killed Kenny!
posted by kindall at 8:44 AM on July 6, 2006

And it's kindall, for the win!
posted by redfisch at 9:24 AM on July 6, 2006

I agree, but your comment doesn't seem to put you above it, but rather somewhere below the surface...

How? I don't see that at all. Why does disagreement with death celebrations and cursing the family make one into a wily denizen of the deep?
posted by kalessin at 10:37 AM on July 6, 2006

I can't believe it took that long for someone to think of that, kindall. Good show.
posted by raedyn at 10:47 AM on July 6, 2006

Yeah, I couldn't believe that either.
posted by kindall at 10:49 AM on July 6, 2006

You bastards!
posted by blucevalo at 1:36 PM on July 6, 2006

No way he's dead. (puts tin foil hat back on)
posted by aether1 at 1:46 PM on July 6, 2006

Has anyone released toxicity screening results yet??? Medical doctors have been known to preside over lethal injections as well as torture.

The administration truly had a lot to lose with the information that Kenny Boy held on the Dear Leader. Commissioning private jets for the 2000 campaign, he knew where the bodies were buried and was probably willing to flip for some immunity. He was on the transition team and Cheney's energy manipulation cabal.

What better gift is there for Bush's birthday than a dose of potassium chloride through Lay's veins? I don't believe he's alive because too many ptb's need him dead.

And that's why I sense Abramoff is not long for this world...perhaps he'll be the victim of a freak accident.
posted by Unregistered User at 1:58 PM on July 6, 2006

posted by brain_drain at 2:45 PM on July 6, 2006

Lay was diagnosed with an unspecified heart condition sometime in the 1990s, Phillips recalled. She did not remember the name of the disease.

Lay apparently had corrected the problem through a rigorous program of diet, exercise and prayer, she said. The son of a Baptist minister, Lay was a deeply religious man.

"I'm sure it -- the stress of the verdict -- had something to do with it," said Phillips, referring to Lay's quick, unexpected death. His sister-in-law giving her opinion.

I believe God called him home as his work was done.
posted by ?! at 3:06 PM on July 6, 2006

hello new york times readers!
posted by shmegegge at 7:07 PM on July 10, 2006