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Bordering on the ridiculous
July 14, 2006 1:47 PM   Subscribe

Free The Tucson Two. Or don't. If you find someone lost and dying in the desert, should you help them? What if they turn out to be attempting to enter the country illegally? Then is it OK to leave them to die? These folks say no, not really. And these folks say yes, probably. Previously discussed immigration fun on MetaFilter: 1 2 3
posted by bokeh (75 comments total)

 
I see a donation site for NMD, but nothing for the legal defense fund....(?)
I would never leave someone to die. Fuck the law.
posted by Smedleyman at 1:55 PM on July 14, 2006


Morally? No, it is absolutely not righ" to leave someone to die when you could prevent it. I don't care about the legality, I'd rather spend my life in prison than know I could have prevented an innocent person's death. It's reprehensible that anyone would even think otherwise.
posted by jzb at 1:58 PM on July 14, 2006


That should be "not right," btw.
posted by jzb at 1:58 PM on July 14, 2006


Court documents show Strauss and Sellz passed two Border Patrol agents before being pulled over by a third, suggesting that prosecutors may contend that if the immigrants they were carrying really needed help, it was quickly at hand.

At a pre-trial hearing, the chief of the service’s Tucson sector, Michael Nicley, explained that he had introduced an explicit change of policy several months before the arrests requiring church groups and other humanitarian volunteers to inform the Border Patrol any time they wanted to lend assistance to sick migrants. This, he said, was something Sellz and Strauss did not do, and as far as he was concerned they deserved “no special dispensation.”

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.
posted by bob sarabia at 2:00 PM on July 14, 2006


I worked with Shanti right before she left to pursue this volunteer position. I had a chance to speak with her when she was able to make a visit after her arrest. She is a pretty wonderful person. From what she said the whole situation is based on a 'new sheriff' trying to make a statement, after the old one 'allowed' this sort of activism to take place. It seems like a real shame to prosecute a young, intellegent, productive citizen in pursuit of a political agenda. That's our tax dollars at work!
posted by BillJenkins at 2:01 PM on July 14, 2006


Cut and dry, how?

The prosecutor will have to establish intent, and do it beyond a reasonable doubt. Passing the border patrol agents is strong evidence, but will it be enough? I doubt on its own it is.
posted by caddis at 2:03 PM on July 14, 2006


Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Its always cut and dry when you listen to one side. Thats why you have court trials.
posted by vacapinta at 2:04 PM on July 14, 2006


Fucking disgusting. God, this state is a shithole.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 2:04 PM on July 14, 2006


jzb writes "I don't care about the legality, I'd rather spend my life in prison than know I could have prevented an innocent person's death."

Agree.

bob sarabia writes "Seems pretty cut and dry to me."

Doesn't make it right.

Does anyone know if the people they were helping survived?
posted by Mitheral at 2:11 PM on July 14, 2006


It's fine if you want to help illegal aliens escape the desert, all I'm saying is that if you transport illegal aliens expect to get a felony conviction.
posted by bob sarabia at 2:11 PM on July 14, 2006


bob: What if you are transporting them to a hospital in time to save their lives? That's kinda the crux here.
posted by Freen at 2:14 PM on July 14, 2006


Yeah, that does complicate things. I doubt it'll stop them from being convicted though.
posted by bob sarabia at 2:19 PM on July 14, 2006


By all means refuse to help a fellow human being in a moment of extreme need, but when I'm your wino emperor you are going to have a forehead brand that says:

"I abandonded a fellow human being to die and all I got was this lousy forehead brand. Now kick me in the crotch."
posted by Divine_Wino at 2:19 PM on July 14, 2006


and the cruel joke will be that you will get double crotch kicked for having a thick ropy keloid scar brand that misspells the word "abandoned".
posted by Divine_Wino at 2:21 PM on July 14, 2006


Now, wait a minute. They were not transported to a hospital for medical attention--they were taken to a church!

Disclaimer: I happen to have a "No Mas Muertes" sign on my front (Tucson) lawn, but I do have misgivings about this case.
posted by Neologian at 2:23 PM on July 14, 2006


What if it was a whale that you found lost and dying in the desert?
posted by Flashman at 2:56 PM on July 14, 2006


What if it was a spotted owl? A mexican spotted owl. Man that would suck. Let it die and you've got Endangered Species Act liability; bring it in and you're going to jail. These are the tough questions folks, and they never teach you this stuff in law school.
posted by The Bellman at 3:07 PM on July 14, 2006


I'm kind of lacking in sympathy for people who are a) shady enough to enter the country illegally and b) stupid enough to do it through a desert without adequate supplies.
posted by keswick at 3:08 PM on July 14, 2006


So the issue is wether they were trying to not only get them help, but also trying to get them safely into the country.

Oh well, that's what you get for sticking out your neck to help untouchables. If you want to live in a country where human life is valued, move somewhere else!
posted by delmoi at 3:11 PM on July 14, 2006


No one should be left to die out there. I doubt there are many on either side who believe that.

As many have pointed out, the issue isn't whether they should have saved the lives, but what their intent was. Were the rescuers looking to provide them aid and harbor them?

There is a case to be made that if such a group as No More Deaths consistently turns their rescuees over to authorities, then people in trouble out in the desert might begin avoiding folks offering aid, too. (Obviously, not when they are to the point of vomiting and unable to walk. I mean those folks who are getting to that point.)

An analogy (admittedly, a rough one) might be drawn to a clean-needle program for Heroine addicts.
posted by ghiacursed at 3:11 PM on July 14, 2006


I'm kind of lacking in sympathy for people who are a) shady enough to enter the country illegally and b) stupid enough to do it through a desert without adequate supplies.

YEAH, SYMPATHY IS FOR PUSSIES!
posted by delmoi at 3:11 PM on July 14, 2006


So, keswick, because they are ignorant of geography and desert conditions, it's cool to let them die? Sure, screw them, it's not like they're fellow human beings or anything.
posted by MythMaker at 3:23 PM on July 14, 2006


From the rhetoric, attitude, feel, etc. the American patrol site seems like a bunch of white supremacists.
“Now, wait a minute. They were not transported to a hospital for medical attention--they were taken to a church!”
Durwha?
“On July 9, Sellz and Strauss came upon three migrants near the Arivaca camp in desperate need of help. Two were ill and covered in blisters. A third was vomiting and had severe diarrhea. After consulting with two doctors and a nurse, Sellz and Strauss realized the third individual was in danger of liver failure and death and that all three were in need of immediate medical attention. The volunteers then consulted an attorney and were advised to take the migrants to the nearest medical facility. However, they were pulled over and arrested by U.S. Border Patrol en route.”

Keswick, that is such an insightful, intelligent, bad ass comment.
I’m curious why then the U.S. Border Patrol doesn’t follow them to the hospital? Why they don’t park a guy at the church? Why - exactly - are they themselves letting these people die out there when in fact their duty is to catch them? And, once caught, act in a manner appropriate to a law enforcement officer - that is - saving lives.
I give a fuck if anyone is sympathetic or not, I’m not paying the Border Patrol to sit on their asses and let the desert kill people so they don’t have to do their jobs.
/Ice-T- “that’s not my job ass-hole. My job is not to help your fucking ass out”
posted by Smedleyman at 3:25 PM on July 14, 2006


Meh, the world is overcrowded anyway. If a few idiots die, I'm not gonna waste any tears.
posted by keswick at 3:26 PM on July 14, 2006


Dang, keswick.
posted by everichon at 3:29 PM on July 14, 2006


I'm kind of lacking in sympathy for people who are a) shady enough to enter the country illegally and b) stupid enough to do it through a desert without adequate supplies.

Huh? How about "a) desperate enough to enter the country illegally and b) poor enough to do it through a desert without adequate supplies"? Not everyone has a mini-van and a Camel-Pak.

It's fine if you want to help illegal aliens escape the desert, all I'm saying is that if you transport illegal aliens expect to get a felony conviction.

Expect to see a lot of bus and taxi drivers in jail soon, then. (I'm not sure, these days, how many illegal immigrants can fly, given the "crackdown" on identification requirements.) Transport isn't enough - you have to have intent.

I don't think anyone's arguing that they should've been left there. They did the right thing by picking them up. Question is, what were their subsequent motives?

If the confluence of information is to be believed, they consulted with both medical and legal professionals before picking them up. Their attorney advised them to transport them to the nearest medical facility, because the doctors they spoke with indicated that these three were in serious medical peril.

This should be a pretty open and shut case - if the contacts occurred, they have easily documentable information that indicated they were performing a humanitarian action. Their intent was to save three lives, not smuggle three people across the border. The only shaky part of this was why these two felt it was a better idea to transport them to a church to see a doctor. I doubt that hurdle will be a high one to jump. (First, try getting healthcare as an illegal immigrant with a job. Now, try it without one.)

I hope the trial goes well.
posted by FormlessOne at 3:33 PM on July 14, 2006


Meh, the world is overcrowded anyway. If a few idiots die, I'm not gonna waste any tears.

Congradulations.
posted by delmoi at 3:37 PM on July 14, 2006


FormlessOne: they just go to ERs, which are obligated to help them, resulting in higher prices for people who aren't here fuckin' illegally.
posted by keswick at 3:37 PM on July 14, 2006


Meh, the world is overcrowded anyway. If a few idiots die, I'm not gonna waste any tears.
posted by keswick at 3:26 PM PST on July 14 [+fave] [!]


Thanks for providing a comment people can link back to in case someone decides to take you seriously in any further discussions.
posted by vacapinta at 3:38 PM on July 14, 2006


Meh, the world is overcrowded anyway. If a few idiots die, I'm not gonna waste any tears.

if overcrowding is the main concern, remember: charity begins at home
posted by troybob at 3:44 PM on July 14, 2006


keswick - So you are in the ‘let them die’ column then. Understood. But you aren’t a border patrol officer. Presumably you pay taxes. We can’t afford that kind of policy and discrimination in law enforcement decision making. ‘Why’ is obvious.
But if it is your assertion (beyond troll-value - a question not a statement) that our border patrol officers should leave people to die based on a eugenics program derived from your assessment of what intelligence is, I’m going to have to disagree.
I agree that there are too many people in the world. Unfortunately my sense of ethics prevents me from hunting and killing the ones I don’t like. Fortunately though, I could re-enlist, but we’re still not making a dent without nuclear weapons. It’s far more cost and labor productive to focus on more humane and compassionate methods, such as reducing birth rates by reducing childhood mortality rates (Bill Gates is into this).
posted by Smedleyman at 3:44 PM on July 14, 2006


they just go to ERs, which are obligated to help them, resulting in higher prices for people who aren't here fuckin' illegally.
posted by keswick


They were illegally fuckin', too??? Couldn't have been that ill then, right, keswick?
posted by leftcoastbob at 3:56 PM on July 14, 2006


To me, the salient point is that they were acting on their attorney's advice. If their attorney told them this was fine, legally, then how were they to know any different?
posted by joannemerriam at 3:59 PM on July 14, 2006


"bob: What if you are transporting them to a hospital in time to save their lives? That's kinda the crux here.
"

Was she operating a marked emergency vehicle? Sounds like she was driving a hatchback. Perhaps a better course of action would have been to immediately activate the EMS system instead of transporting people in her own personal vehicle. Or, stop the first Border Patrol vehicle and have them radio for medical personnel.

Ah, but they were apparantly treated at a church. Not a hospital. "The issue… is whether the illegal aliens treated at Southside Presbyterian Church.."....

The wole thing sounds fishy. If I was out in the desert and happened to come across some illegal immigrants (I am against illegal immigration, but if I encountered some in need of medical attention, I would most certainly help) and "two doctors and a nurse" told me that one was in grave danger of liver failure... the LAST place that I would take them is to a CHURCH. And I would have very quickly explained the situation to the nearest law enforcement official.
posted by drstein at 4:26 PM on July 14, 2006


Depending on exactly where they found these 3 guys, the Carondelet Holy Cross Hospital in Nogales, AZ was probably closer than Tuscon anyway.

But they were taking them not to a hospital, but to a church where volunteers were. I think that's a pretty key point in this whole story. They weren't taking them to a hospital and never called 911.

Ah, and now this faith-based group will also be calling 911 for sick illegal immigrants.

"By Stephanie Innes , Arizona Daily Star
Azstarnet.com
05.22.2006
Tucson, AZ - Desert aid workers who come across gravely ill migrants must call 911 and the U.S. Border Patrol rather than taking them to get medical help, according to new protocol for the local No More Deaths group.

The group has been in the public eye since two of its volunteers were arrested last summer for transporting two ill migrants to a church medical clinic.

Unless they are doctors or nurses, volunteers from No More Deaths are not authorized to put an illegal migrant in their vehicle, said Margo Cowan, legal counsel for the faith-based No More Deaths group."

This whole thing will probably be a moot point anyway. They'll very likely just let these two off with probation or a fine if it's their first offense. I haven't seen anything saying that they've been in trouble with the law before.
posted by drstein at 4:41 PM on July 14, 2006


Why were they taking them to a church?
(I’m not seeing that in the other sources - just seeing that they were stopped after picking up a few people and driving them)
They were either actively attempting to aid the illegals in evading the authorities or they did not believe that the authorities would allow the illegals proper medical aid.
Either situation raises a host of questions.
posted by Smedleyman at 4:55 PM on July 14, 2006


Perhaps if instead of the hatchback they had a proper vehicle to evade the authorities

posted by Smedleyman at 4:59 PM on July 14, 2006


Why were they taking them to a church?

Church medical clinic. As in, medical clinic attached to a church. Honestly, have you people really never heard of such a thing?
posted by dirigibleman at 5:13 PM on July 14, 2006


Legally, the case seems quite clear cut. The defence of necessity allows you to break the law when doing so serves some over-riding purpose. Someone with a suspended license can drive their critically injured child to the hospital, then get off the charge of violating the suspension by claiming that is was necessary to avert a far greater evil. Preventing three people from dying in the desert obviously overrides questions about the legality of assisting those attempting to migrate illegally.
posted by sindark at 5:17 PM on July 14, 2006


I wonder how Amnesty International feels about Mexico's immigration policies, or the simple fact that Mexico is so backwards and corrupt that half of the country wants to leave for the U.S.
posted by shoos at 5:30 PM on July 14, 2006


hmm...defence of necessity...does that mean that if i'm out with friends and they are drunk, i can drive their car to get them home even if i don't have a license, if the alternative is that they will drive under the influence...i've been wondering that...
posted by troybob at 5:40 PM on July 14, 2006


what in the world do you suppose humanitarian volunteers have in mind for immigrants other than seeing that they don't die?

NMD is not some underground railroad of illegal immigration. it's dedicated to exactly what its name says it is: NO MORE DEATHS.

no one that i know that's affiliated with or supports the organization has any interest in increasing/facilitating illegal immigration.

sure, one could make the argument that putting up water stations and providing medical care on some level makes it easier for illegals to get in the country, but i guaran-fucking-tee you that the impoverished and ignorant folk who are trying to make it through the incredibly harsh desert are doing so because a coyote told him he could ensure safe passage, or because they don't know what they're up against in terms of distance and harshness of exposure.

this has everything to do with border patrol enforcement policies -- the u.s. border patrol in the nogales (tucson) sector has pursued a policy where enforcement is concentrated in urban locales, the idea being that the desert will serve as a natural fence.

they know that this policy results in hundreds of preventable deaths annually due to exposure. they know that the people crossing the border through the desert are most likely victims of coyotes, that their chance of dying is very high, and they don't fucking care a whit.

so go ahead and yuk it up with your lack of care, keswick, you fucking asshole. may you one day have the fortune of living in a third-world country with only one means of feeding your family -- illegally emigrating to another country. may you die in the desert of exposure trying to provide.
posted by Hat Maui at 6:18 PM on July 14, 2006


"Church medical clinic. As in, medical clinic attached to a church. Honestly, have you people really never heard of such a thing?"

Nope. I have never heard of or seen such a thing here in the United States. The article didn't make that clear either - it just said they were taking them to a church.
posted by drstein at 6:21 PM on July 14, 2006


"Church medical clinic. As in, medical clinic attached to a church. Honestly, have you people really never heard of such a thing?"

Nope. I have never heard of or seen such a thing here in the United States. The article didn't make that clear either - it just said they were taking them to a church.
posted by drstein at 6:21 PM on July 14, 2006


so go ahead and yuk it up with your lack of care, keswick, you fucking asshole. may you one day have the fortune of living in a third-world country with only one means of feeding your family -- illegally emigrating to another country. may you die in the desert of exposure trying to provide.

It doesn't seem likely, but thanks for the wellwishes!
posted by keswick at 6:38 PM on July 14, 2006


I wonder what Amnesty International has to say about Brunei's immigration policies.
posted by shoos at 7:32 PM on July 14, 2006


shoos, neither of those stories are about Brunei citizens being imprisoned for rescuing dying illegal immigrants already in the country.
posted by George_Spiggott at 7:51 PM on July 14, 2006


keswick writes "I'm kind of lacking in sympathy for people who are a) shady enough to enter the country illegally and b) stupid enough to do it through a desert without adequate supplies."

1st: How do you know someone wondering around the desert on the verge of death from dehydration isn't a lost citizen out camping?
2nd: Have you no idea of the reality of being dirt poor in a poor country?

drstein writes "Was she operating a marked emergency vehicle? Sounds like she was driving a hatchback. Perhaps a better course of action would have been to immediately activate the EMS system instead of transporting people in her own personal vehicle. "

How long do you suppose it would take for an ambulance to get to her location? Transportation of people in distress to medical facilities by non medical personel is common in back countries around the world.
posted by Mitheral at 8:00 PM on July 14, 2006


George, you're right, but still I'm curious.
posted by shoos at 8:06 PM on July 14, 2006


"Honestly, have you people really never heard of such a thing?" - posted by dirigibleman

A. I myself haven't, no. B. Who's "you people"? C. Have you really never heard of reading a thread before commenting? (why I even bother...)
It's not like I'm keswick here, it was an honest question. And again - didn't see it in anything I was reading.
posted by Smedleyman at 9:36 PM on July 14, 2006


One explaination for transporting the immigrants to a church clinic could be that the church would treat them and then release them in the world. A hospital might call the INS (or whatever they are called these days).
posted by sideshow at 9:40 PM on July 14, 2006


The only reference I could find to where they were taking them is from that Durango Herald article.

The two volunteers claim they were taking their sick passengers to see a doctor at a church as part of a humanitarian effort

The Telegraph says:

The volunteers then consulted an attorney and were advised to take the migrants to the nearest medical facility.

Oddly enough, their church was the closest "medical facility". Sure. They were probably going to give the illegals some money and send them on their way after being treated.
posted by bob sarabia at 9:51 PM on July 14, 2006


If you find someone lost and dying in the desert, should you help them?

I'll go out on a limb and say yes.

What if it was a whale...

What if it was a spotted owl...

Were, people. Subjunctives are fun.

We should all be helping "illegals" get into this country however we see fit. Might be the only way to save the U.S. These people are the equivalent of the nation's forefathers.
posted by mrgrimm at 9:51 PM on July 14, 2006


Great story from a while back - there were some skinheads protesting illegal immigrants and police were there doing crowd control and this reporter asks one of the detectives, a vaguely Hispanic looking guy, what he thinks of all this.
He says straight into the camera: "I think they're totally right, these guys. Illegal immigrants completely ruined this country and they're screwing it all up right now." and walks off. So the reporter is a bit stunned. The chief and the department PIO run over to the camera and the PR guy says: "I just want to point out that Detective Running and Jumping Wolf is a Native American."
posted by Smedleyman at 10:11 PM on July 14, 2006


By the way, did these guys cross the border? How is even illegal to drive with someone in your car if you don't ID them?
posted by delmoi at 10:26 PM on July 14, 2006


These people are the equivalent of the nation's forefathers.

[Head explodes]
posted by keswick at 10:37 PM on July 14, 2006


Keswick: What, those poor europeans risking everything to go to a land of opportunity and try to make their way were somehow better people because they were white?

'Give me your poor and huddled masses' indeed.
'Give me you poor so we can let them die in the desert, they were losers anyway'. Much better. *sigh*
posted by ArkhanJG at 11:54 PM on July 14, 2006


Preventing three people from dying in the desert obviously overrides questions about the legality of assisting those attempting to migrate illegally.

If recent event are anything to go by, "people" does not include non-US citizens in the eyes of the law.
posted by spazzm at 1:27 AM on July 15, 2006


[Head explodes]
posted by keswick

if fucking only
posted by Hat Maui at 4:11 AM on July 15, 2006


you know what, keswick? i dare you to put your entire fucking life up against the efforts of one illegal. go ahead, assess that shit. here's a chart that will help you in figuring it all out:

illegal: 1) someone willing to risk his/her life to emigrate to another nation to take care of his/her family 2) a person that, despite their status as an illegal entrant to this country, is regarded by most as an actual human being

keswick 1) someone willing to risk his/her status as a would-be hilarious internet retard so as to posit a trollishly unsympathetic view of those from a country not his/her own 2) a person that, despite their status as a would-be internet badass, is regarded by most as a total moron.

bottom line? uniformed dummies like you aren't worthy to wash the feet of illegals. i'd bet all i own that you've never experienced anything remotely comparable to the kind of hardship that those who emigrate to this country experience daily.

it's okay, you fat twat. lots of people have it as easy as you do. it's just that very few first-worlders resent third-worlders for their poverty.

when you have the courage to do anything other than snipe from your cubicle, go ahead and email me. until then, keep your troll-ass bullshit to yourself.
posted by Hat Maui at 4:36 AM on July 15, 2006


Chill out Hat Maui. Stop taking Keswick's bait. His comments alone make him look pretty bad.
posted by caddis at 5:04 AM on July 15, 2006


caddis, yeah, i know. it's just that i have this incredible loathing for misinformed racist fools.

somehow, when people advocate the death of those that, in my view, have more courage than most of the rest of us, i can't help but vociferously disdain what they say.

so that the point is not lost: fuck keswick, that lazy, priveleged puke who considers himself a superior human to those that would dare cross a border illegally to seek a better life for themselves and their families.
posted by Hat Maui at 5:18 AM on July 15, 2006


troybob,

The alternative to driving them your drunk friends home: having them walk, or wait until they are sober, is not serious enough to invoke a defence of necessity.

To paraphrase international law, the need should be instant, overwhelming, leaving no choice of means, and no moment of deliberation. I'd say people dying in the desert meets that standard, regardless of their nationality or whether they had committed a crime.
posted by sindark at 6:25 AM on July 15, 2006


I was invited to participate in No More Deaths last summer. My first inclination was "great!", since I love outdoorsie desert stuff, and, yup, saving lives is nice too. I've known a few illegals and their stories about the Coyotes are pretty brutal. This was also before the immigration thing had become quite as politicized. Then the person who invited me told me about the case linked above.

I'd been arrested for a DUI about a month earlier (yes, I'm fully aware that I suck). In the process, I spent 24 hours in Sherrif Joe's Madison Street Jail and was pretty much guaranteed to be doing 10 days in Tent City once things wound up.

Once I heard that there was even a remote chance of legal issues as a result of helping to save people's lives, I instantly got the cold sweats and changed my answer to no.

I'm ashamed that I did this. I'm ashamed that I allowed Sherrif Joe's jail to create this chilling effect that would prevent me from participating in a charitable enterprise. But that jail sucked, hard, and as long as I'm in Arizona, I won't be doing anything else that might land me there.
posted by smeger at 9:10 AM on July 15, 2006


I'm ashamed that I did this. I'm ashamed that I allowed Sherrif Joe's jail to create this chilling effect that would prevent me from participating in a charitable enterprise. But that jail sucked, hard, and as long as I'm in Arizona, I won't be doing anything else that might land me there.
posted by smeger at 9:10 AM PST on July 15


See my comment earlier. We are a disgrace to this country for about a trillion different reasons and honestly, even the most corrupt drug-lord-run Mexican government could do a better job with this state than us. Arizona is a sad collection of nouveau riche, meth freaks, Mormons, and white supremacists. I gotta get out of here.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 9:25 AM on July 15, 2006


If the most corrupt drug-lord-run Mexican government could do better, then why are so many Mexicans risking their very lives merely to get there? You live there too.
posted by shoos at 9:40 AM on July 15, 2006


shoos: because Optimus Chyme and Hat Maul suffer from white liberal guilt. it's a horrible disease, causing people to avoid logic and rational thought. (i.e. Hat Maul comparing the circumstances of over 200 years ago to those of today or calling people racist with no real proof, etc.)
posted by keswick at 9:46 AM on July 15, 2006


when you have the courage to do anything other than snipe from your cubicle, go ahead and email me.

keswick, was this guy threatening you? It sounds like it.
posted by shoos at 10:15 AM on July 15, 2006


no, i think he must have been talking to some other keswick, because i have an office not a cubicle.
posted by keswick at 10:18 AM on July 15, 2006


Arizona is a sad collection of nouveau riche, meth freaks, Mormons, and white supremacists.

That's pretty damned bang-on.
posted by smeger at 10:29 AM on July 15, 2006


Meh, the world is overcrowded anyway. If a few idiots die, I'm not gonna waste any tears...

[Head explodes]
posted by keswick


RIP
posted by taosbat at 12:50 PM on July 15, 2006


If the most corrupt drug-lord-run Mexican government could do better, then why are so many Mexicans risking their very lives merely to get there? You live there too.
posted by shoos at 9:40 AM PST on July 15


Because - believe it or not - our federal government keeps Arizona in check. If it weren't for that - if Arizona had free reign tp do what it wished without federal restrictoins, we'd have an openly racist Mormon-Christian theocracy. Our legislature is filled with the kind of freaks the other states only have one or two of. Our largest county's sheriff is a self-serving, embezzling incompetent who openly threatens journalists. And the only people our white voters hate more than homosexuals are Mexicans.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 1:06 PM on July 15, 2006


Elite unit focuses on rescue of immigrants
posted by taosbat at 4:14 PM on July 15, 2006


To think, this entire situation could have been avoided by notifying the authorities and transporting these people to a non-affiliated medical facility, funded by taxpayer dollars.

Save their lives, but once they're safe, send them back. If you want these people in the country, fight for immigration reform. That's how you stop the desert deaths. Only, doing that would involve an end to the exploitative system that creates untold numbers of illegally low paying jobs for people doing work that few natural born Americans would even consider, allowing for record high profits, while medical care is handled by overcrowded emergency rooms and overworked nurses, the cost of which has to be absorbed for humanitarian and legal reasons.

Higher health care costs, higher corporate profits, and turning a blind eye to a "lower class" of people. Yeah, no wonder this system isn't changing.

Leaving an illegal immigrant to die is no better than leaving a natural born citizen to die, but letting them stay only leaves you as another cog in the system of exploitation.
posted by Saydur at 9:07 AM on July 16, 2006


Well said Saydur.
posted by Smedleyman at 5:44 PM on July 16, 2006


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