Comments on: Those Bastards!

Those Bastards!

granted — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 13:56:23 -0800

Think of Cancellation Calls as Sales Leads! Why did Vincent have such a hard time cancelling his AOL account? It turns out that his customer service rep was just following the AOL Retention Manual, a copy of which was sent to consumerist.com. Nicholas Graham, executive vice president of AOL Corporate Communications, had sent Vincent a formal apology (Google cache - right now his site's been pummeled beyond capacity) saying, "The employee in question violated our customer service guidelines and practices, and everything that AOL believes to be important in customer care." Um...really? New York Times article on the cancellation-call hoopla. via digg.

By: L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg

L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:08:21 -0800

This is why, in defense, whenever I call to cancel anything I also try to get the person on the other end to buy my lovely handmade cufflinks.

By: zsazsa

zsazsa — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:11:42 -0800

previously posted, but news of the apology is welcome.

By: Kwantsar

Kwantsar — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:17:23 -0800

previously posted, but news of the apology is welcome. Good job reading the links.

By: granted

granted — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:18:46 -0800

yeah, the word "vincent" is a link to the previous post. everything else, including the main link about the manual, is new.

By: chimaera

chimaera — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:25:57 -0800

I didn't believe for a moment that "Vincent" ever violated their customer service guidelines -- this type of behavior doesn't come from some lone cowboy in the cubicles, it is a hallmark of the corporate culture. In AOL's case, this "Retention Manual" is a classic example of bad culture codified.

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:27:55 -0800

this type of behavior doesn't come from some lone cowboy in the cubicles, it is a hallmark of the corporate culture. I'm a rebel, Dotty... a loner.

By: Chuckles

Chuckles — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:29:13 -0800

I even saw the apology covered on TV, probably CNN. Will they cover this revelation of AOL's hypocrisy?

By: chimaera

chimaera — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:29:39 -0800

Sorry, the rep was named John. Vincent was the person who tried to cancel.

By: Skorgu

Skorgu — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:34:25 -0800

Oh wow, that AOL manual is sick. Not surprising you understand, but sick nonetheless. For the record, I've never had a problem cancelling AOL, NetZero or anything else. Vincent's mistake was answering honestly, that shows weakness! Never give them a reason (No matter how accurate, truthful or justified it may be) that they can argue with. The four best words in the English language for dealing with pushy salesweasels over the phone: "I'd Rather Not Say." That or just start cursing.

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:47:26 -0800

I'm curious. If I call - and have a recording - of me saying "cancel my account" (etc.) wouldn't that constitute legal notice? I mean, I'm tempted the next time I have a problem to give my name, relevant account info, etc. and say "This is notice of cancellation" end of story. The first bill I recieved would be returned with a (notarized and/or guaranteed delivery, etc.) letter stating my intention to cancel on the previous date. I'm also curious if you can sue. Seems to me some folks are still breathing only because it's illegal to kill them. I suppose the corporate equivalent is pounding their website and ability to do business. Still, it'd be nice to have some blood.

By: aiq

aiq — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:50:00 -0800

i first went online about '94 and ordered AOL...soon tried to cancel and got the same treatment: starting with "we're your friend, have some free months" to harrassing comments as to how i didn't understand the internet and was, well, dumb, for not wanting to keep AOL.

By: elpapacito

elpapacito — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:54:40 -0800

For instance if you tried canceling Metafilter , Matt wouldn't come home and massage your feet.

By: EarBucket

EarBucket — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 15:07:58 -0800

I have to say, when I cancelled my AOL account, I had no problem. The rep spent a minute or two asking me why I was cancelling, but he was polite, and I don't blame them for making an effort to keep a paying customer. The whole process took maybe five minutes. YMMV.

By: Skorgu

Skorgu — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 15:39:29 -0800

As a counterpoint, a friend of mine got free internet (well, AOL anyway) for something like a year and a half just by threatening to cancel every time the free months ended.

By: hollygoheavy

hollygoheavy — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 15:47:31 -0800

Flipping the cancellation is just part of the job at AOL and at pretty much any sales type position. You're taught to overcome objections and close the sale, or in this case, to keep the subscriber. Some people and companies are more ethical than others-for instance I'm interviewing with several different multifamily housing management companies. One person told me that he has a script for me to give to residents who are not renewing their lease because they're buying a house. They want leasing consultants to talk about how expensive home ownership is and what a hassle and how ultimately they would be better served by continuing to rent forever.

By: zsazsa

zsazsa — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 15:52:46 -0800

I'm dumb.

By: Imperfect

Imperfect — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:01:36 -0800

In AOL's defense: It is proven that it's easier to keep a customer who's trying to leave than to obtain a new customer. You have to spend far less money, and they're far less likely to leave you than a brand-new customer is. A "kept" customer is worth another year or two of subscription fees. Also, retention is not a job that you tend to get the most qualified candidates for, unless you're in a situation where the local job market is such that you can afford to be picky. I live in such a town and work in such a retention department. We have a number of post-secondary education facilites here, ensuring that there's a lot of very qualified individuals floating around looking desperately for jobs. We can afford to be picky and obtain the very best, so we do. However, we also have call centers locally that aren't picky, with an entirely different managerial credo: "Hire anyone who applies and fire them just as easily. Disposable labour is easier to deal with because you don't have to spend money motivating them." I worked there (ever so briefly) and the training manuals they have there are on par with the AOL ones. I'm guessing this is because AOL has a much looser recruiting policy for their retention division. With such a wide net, you do get a few excellent individuals, but you also tend to get a lot of flotsam, and you need to educate them on their level. The unfortunate side-effect of this is that the truly gifted indivdiuals are usually the first to leave and this affects your business negatively. I really only hope that AOL cleans up its hiring policies and managerial practices in the wake of this event. Although I really doubt it.

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:04:29 -0800

"Matt wouldn't come home and massage your feet." Wait, you guys are getting foot massages?

By: eatdonuts

eatdonuts — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:16:36 -0800

Love this article. girl attempts to cancel AOL account for deceased mother ... and fails. See, here's the rub for those poor souls who still have AOL ... I have high speed here and don't use AOL, but my 60 year old mother in another state does. If I cancel the account, she looses her ability to connect to the internet due to her fear of trying anything new or sadly, learning a new online skill. It's just easier to pay for it and let her be online, let her know where to email me, and how to use IM... it took ages to teach her that to start with. She connects when visiting friends in other states, she chats with her buddies elsewhere and plays AOL poker. *shrug*

By: eatdonuts

eatdonuts — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:20:43 -0800

Wow, another 'dead need to call to cancel AOL' --- eesh.

By: MegoSteve

MegoSteve — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:38:08 -0800

It's not difficult to believe that the customer service rep who took Vincent Ferrari's call to cancel was acting in accordance with company policy. It's pretty clear that AOL execs pressure their reps to retain clients, or else that rep wouldn't have been so zealous about it. It's kind of like Abu Ghraib. We all know the orders come from the top. This wasn't a renegade customer service rep. My recent experience with dealing with my company's cancelled AOL account only served to piss me off enough that I would never recommend them to anyone. Years ago, AOL was thought of as something akin to training wheels for the internet, but these days it's easier to just learn to use the internet right away without the handholding than it is to deal with AOL's bizarre cancellation and billing practices.

By: luriete

luriete — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:51:08 -0800

note: You only get the foot massages with Metafilter Platinum (tm).

By: matthewr

matthewr — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:52:22 -0800

"AOL: It's kind of like Abu Ghraib."

By: Sparx

Sparx — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:59:33 -0800

Wait, you guys are getting foot massages? Sure. Well, we call them 'massages', but really its just Matt booting us up the backside for posting irrelevent comments. ... Um. AOL sucks! Boo!

By: drstein

drstein — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:25:39 -0800

At least AOL doesn't charge any early termination fees of up to $200.. like ye evil cell phone providers do. :) I had no trouble cancelling an old AOL account either. I said "I only used it to see what a website I was working on looked like in AOL. The project is finished." The rep said "Ok" and the account was cancelled. No strange bills arrived, no real attempts to give me free months. It was cancelled without any hassle at all.

By: diastematic

diastematic — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:38:59 -0800

I'd like to try out a few new cancellation reasons...if only I hadn't cancelled AOL 10 years ago: I'm changing my identity for federal protection purposes. I'm moving to a part of the world where the only long-distance communication is via smoke signal. I'm gonna barf out loud, again and again and again until you cancel my account. Hey, there's always audible.com. They're pretty hard to leave, too...I'll give it a shot!

By: kosher_jenny

kosher_jenny — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:42:13 -0800

From eatdonuts' first link: After explaining that my mother was killed in the accident, the rep told me that he was sorry that my mom was unhappy with the service. He then suggested lowering the number of hours per month to reduce the bill. I said "she was killed." The rep then said, "I understand what you are saying, I'm just trying to come up with a solution." He actually got snippy with me. Ho-lee shit.

By: taosbat

taosbat — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:37:39 -0800

Metafilter Platinum™...I want it...I want foot massages!!!

By: absalom

absalom — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:56:36 -0800

As a former customer service rep, I knew exactly what was going on the instant I first read about it. As to KJ's quote, that's a little over the top. I was working for a cell phone provider, and our solution would have been "Are there any other residents of the house who might need cell phone service, we could easily transfer service." Classy. Much less ghoulish.

By: chill

chill — Wed, 19 Jul 2006 00:36:30 -0800

By: oncogenesis

oncogenesis — Wed, 19 Jul 2006 00:37:54 -0800

The jargon in AOL's retention manual reminds me of Scientology. It's creepy.

By: dglynn

dglynn — Wed, 19 Jul 2006 02:52:10 -0800

What is it about modern business practices that requires us to get into constant wrestling matches? I pay my power bill on "levelized billing", so I pay the same amount every month. Two months ago they came and replaced my outdoor meter with a new meter they can read remotely(everyone going wireless now?). Last month, power bill shows up, same amount owed(levelized, right?), but since I actually look at it, I notice that they have me using 10 times as much electricity in the 21 days of the old compared the 7 days of the new meter. Demand is complicated, but it should be roughly 3 times, maybe 4 times if we have that Phoenix to Wisconsin weather, but not ten times. Call, go through the ID train, they say "Yeah, that can't be right, we'll dig out the meter and get correct numbers", and we're all good, right? New bill shows up, I owe same amount, but now the only way I can tell they haven't corrected the bill is that the part of the bill that shows how far ahead or behind I am in my year's billing looks suspiciously like thay actually haven't fixed the bill. This is looking like more phone calls, and the inablility to actually argue what they have done(old meters gone now...) without forensic bill reading. So, I require electrons, and the only providers are apparently dildos. I take that back, dildos can be useful.

By: kzin602

kzin602 — Wed, 19 Jul 2006 04:03:07 -0800

I work for a large(ish) internet service related company, we do webhosting and domain names. If a person buys two years worth of (for example) webhosting services, and then six months down the road calls in and cancells. We will of course ask what was wrong with the service, offer alternates, etc, but if they just want to cancel we will do that for them and offer a refund for their unused portion of services (A year and a half in this case). I know that if the customer has a smooth process that in the future they may reccomend us to a friend, and that our prices and service is pretty hard to beat, so they will probably come back on the future. AOL on the other hand knows that once a customer discovers how much better life is without their service, they will never come back and will probably tell friends to skip AOL and spend the exta few bucks a month for broadband because it's sooo much better. I guess that's why AOL has to fight tooth and nail for customer retention. *shrug*

By: flabdablet

flabdablet — Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:07:34 -0800

Inspector: Apu Nahasapeemapetilan, you have disgraced the Kwik-E-Mart Corporation. Apu: But, sir, I was only following standard procedure. Inspector: Ah, true. But it's _also_ standard procedure to blame any problems on a scapegoat or sacrificial lamb. Apu: Uh huh, and if I can obtain for you these animals? Inspector: I'm sorry, Apu: I have no choice. You can no longer wear this name patch. [tears it off] Apu: [gasps] Inspector: And you can no longer tell people about our fried pickles. [tears off the patch] Now: turn in your pricing gun. {[Apu removes it from a shoulder holster]} Inspector: [severe] The other one too. [Apu removes it from an ankle holster] Apu: [sighs] Fired...after all these years of loyal service. [picks up a hot dog] I don't want to live any more. Inspector: [grabs him] Give me that weiner -- Apu: I don't want to live, sir! Inspector: Give me that weiner -- Apu: Don't -- Inspector: No, Apu, it's not worth it!

By: Songdog

Songdog — Wed, 19 Jul 2006 06:32:34 -0800

"Wait, you guys are getting foot massages?" I quit Metafilter in 2003 and I've never been happier!

By: petebest

petebest — Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:47:03 -0800

For instance if you tried canceling Metafilter , Matt wouldn't come home and massage your feet. Then . . who is that guy?

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:26:53 -0800

Leads! LEADS! *glengarryglenrossfilter*

By: absalom

absalom — Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:01:35 -0800

Only closers get to cancel their AOL subscriptions.