Madame in center quare for block
July 27, 2006 10:20 PM Subscribe
Fans of Hollywood Squares may remember Wayland Flowers and his homely, tiara- and rhinestone-bedecked puppet Madame (they replaced the similarly bitchy Paul Lynde as center square.) Madame also briefly enjoyed her own show Madame's Place (1982, with Corey Feldman!), and also, incomprehensibly, hosted Solid Gold. It's not easy to find video of Madame nowadays -- YouTube, as an example, only has one. Her public visibility has decreased since the 1988 death of her puppeteer. (The rumor -- untrue -- is that she was buried with Flowers.)
But even if a puppeteer dies, it's possible for the puppet to live on.
But even if a puppeteer dies, it's possible for the puppet to live on.
God, I *loved* Madame when I was a kid. Fabulous - I love the link to the video, I may just have to get it! Thanks, Astro.
posted by twiki at 10:40 PM on July 27, 2006
posted by twiki at 10:40 PM on July 27, 2006
I forgot all about that dude and his stupid puppet. Is Wayland Smithers from the Simpsons based on this guy?
posted by kenlayne at 10:43 PM on July 27, 2006
posted by kenlayne at 10:43 PM on July 27, 2006
Nightmares! Oh, the nightmares... I thought they had ceased.... :(
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 11:23 PM on July 27, 2006
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 11:23 PM on July 27, 2006
Madamism. Flowers may be gone, but Madame will never leave showbusiness.
posted by micketymoc at 11:54 PM on July 27, 2006
posted by micketymoc at 11:54 PM on July 27, 2006
WTF? Paul Lynde is no longer center square?
Must get those tubes in my TV fixed.
great post Astro Zombie.
posted by three blind mice at 11:54 PM on July 27, 2006
Must get those tubes in my TV fixed.
great post Astro Zombie.
posted by three blind mice at 11:54 PM on July 27, 2006
Even as a child, I knew that Madame and Wonder Woman were two true divas that ever 'mo should keep close to his heart.
Thank you for posting this, and curse you because if I posted any of this to LF or MoFi now, I'd be guilty of my biggest complaint.
posted by crataegus at 1:45 AM on July 28, 2006
Thank you for posting this, and curse you because if I posted any of this to LF or MoFi now, I'd be guilty of my biggest complaint.
posted by crataegus at 1:45 AM on July 28, 2006
even if a puppeteer dies, it's possible for the puppet to live on.
In this case, that's unfortunate.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:08 AM on July 28, 2006
In this case, that's unfortunate.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:08 AM on July 28, 2006
I remember seeing Madame on The Andy Williams Show- her debut, I think.
posted by BoringPostcards at 4:30 AM on July 28, 2006
posted by BoringPostcards at 4:30 AM on July 28, 2006
God, I *loved* Madame when I was a kid.
Not to pry too much, but why?
posted by psmealey at 4:31 AM on July 28, 2006
Not to pry too much, but why?
posted by psmealey at 4:31 AM on July 28, 2006
Madame is one of those things I vaguely remember from my childhood, but only in pictures, not in concrete details. I do remember occasionally thinking about her from time to time as I grew older, wondering what the hell she was, and why a creepy-ass puppet that looks like an evil-clown version of Gloria Swanson in Sunset Boulevard didn't scare the bejeezus out of me.
Thanks for clearing it all up, Astro.
posted by hifiparasol at 5:15 AM on July 28, 2006
Thanks for clearing it all up, Astro.
posted by hifiparasol at 5:15 AM on July 28, 2006
Another question about puppetry:
Was Jim Henson the first famous puppeteer to *not* be obviously a ventriloquist? Wayland Flowers is pretty much in the tradition of Edgar Bergen, but before Henson, had there ever been a puppet who just kind of sat there on stage by himself?
Stuff like Punch and Judy has been around for a long time, but I don't know that there was ever a "dude behind the puppet"personality affixed to anything like that.
If Henson was the first, it seems odd. The whole mystique of puppets is that they seem to operate on their own, so it seems only natural for the puppeteer to hide, and vain for him to do otherwise. I suppose it's easier to play a straight man to your puppet than to just have a puppet telling jokes, but still. It seems odd that one of vaudeville's death throes would have lasted this long.
posted by hifiparasol at 5:21 AM on July 28, 2006
Was Jim Henson the first famous puppeteer to *not* be obviously a ventriloquist? Wayland Flowers is pretty much in the tradition of Edgar Bergen, but before Henson, had there ever been a puppet who just kind of sat there on stage by himself?
Stuff like Punch and Judy has been around for a long time, but I don't know that there was ever a "dude behind the puppet"personality affixed to anything like that.
If Henson was the first, it seems odd. The whole mystique of puppets is that they seem to operate on their own, so it seems only natural for the puppeteer to hide, and vain for him to do otherwise. I suppose it's easier to play a straight man to your puppet than to just have a puppet telling jokes, but still. It seems odd that one of vaudeville's death throes would have lasted this long.
posted by hifiparasol at 5:21 AM on July 28, 2006
hifiparasol -- Undoubtedly someone will come up with an earlier example, but in the world of television Burr Tillstrom of Kukla, Fran and Ollie was pretty well known for his puppetry.
posted by briank at 5:30 AM on July 28, 2006
posted by briank at 5:30 AM on July 28, 2006
Wasn't Madame on some recent VH1 show (maybe one of the many "I love some decade" specials) with a young puppeteer guy, making pseudo-humorous commentary?
posted by leesh at 5:59 AM on July 28, 2006
posted by leesh at 5:59 AM on July 28, 2006
How about Willie Tyler and Lester?
My buddy Kevin grew up on the south side of Chicago in the 60's and 70's and as a kid his fro was so huge that the neighbors used to refer to him as 'Lester.'
He's bald now.
posted by jonmc at 6:23 AM on July 28, 2006
My buddy Kevin grew up on the south side of Chicago in the 60's and 70's and as a kid his fro was so huge that the neighbors used to refer to him as 'Lester.'
He's bald now.
posted by jonmc at 6:23 AM on July 28, 2006
"Wasn't Madame on some recent VH1 show (maybe one of the many "I love some decade" specials) with a young puppeteer guy, making pseudo-humorous commentary?"
Yeah, I saw that too, and it really, really creeped me out. I don't know exactly why, though. But still. Yeeeesh.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:37 AM on July 28, 2006
Yeah, I saw that too, and it really, really creeped me out. I don't know exactly why, though. But still. Yeeeesh.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:37 AM on July 28, 2006
This is so awesome....I, too, adored Madame as a kid, I think it was in part due to my burgeoning fag-hagdom.
posted by tristeza at 8:33 AM on July 28, 2006
posted by tristeza at 8:33 AM on July 28, 2006
I loved Madame: born in Ohio and reared in every state in the union.
posted by MotherTucker at 9:13 AM on July 28, 2006
posted by MotherTucker at 9:13 AM on July 28, 2006
tomharpel‘s post is why I read metafilter.
Jeez, I forgot all about this. I really enjoyed the Hollywood Squares when I was younger. Then I met Paul Linde. He was a bit boozy and harrassed my mom in an airport. Not in a bad way, just in a sort of over rambunctious gay man talking to a diva sort of way (mom was statuesque). He wasn’t at all impolite, just sort of loud and happy. I asked if Linde was hitting on her (as a young man, the gaydar, not so much) and she measuredly said “I don’t think so.”
Later when I watched the Hollywood Squares and saw Linde it struck me that the whole thing was a facade. They were just people in lit up boxes being asked loaded questions and Madame wasn’t real at all, it was a sculpted piece of wood being manipulated by an odd looking guy. Also I think I hit puberty somewhere in there, so maybe it was that as well.
That show with Madame was terrifying, man.
posted by Smedleyman at 9:26 AM on July 28, 2006
Jeez, I forgot all about this. I really enjoyed the Hollywood Squares when I was younger. Then I met Paul Linde. He was a bit boozy and harrassed my mom in an airport. Not in a bad way, just in a sort of over rambunctious gay man talking to a diva sort of way (mom was statuesque). He wasn’t at all impolite, just sort of loud and happy. I asked if Linde was hitting on her (as a young man, the gaydar, not so much) and she measuredly said “I don’t think so.”
Later when I watched the Hollywood Squares and saw Linde it struck me that the whole thing was a facade. They were just people in lit up boxes being asked loaded questions and Madame wasn’t real at all, it was a sculpted piece of wood being manipulated by an odd looking guy. Also I think I hit puberty somewhere in there, so maybe it was that as well.
That show with Madame was terrifying, man.
posted by Smedleyman at 9:26 AM on July 28, 2006
My dad loved Waylon and Madame, and this was his favorite exchange:
Waylon: Have you ever been picked up by the fuzz?posted by kirkaracha at 9:29 AM on July 28, 2006 [1 favorite]
Madame: No, but I've been twirled by the tits a couple of times.
If there is such a thing as a genius, Wayland Flowers was one, and if there isn't, I don't care. I credit his gentle yet outrageously funny spirit for helping me get over my own homophobia.
Just the other day, I was musing about how as a kid I enjoyed WF & M or K, F & O, that mouse on the Andy Williams Show, the "Lonely Goatherd" puppet-show sequence in The Sound of Music or even the Muppets, yet I've been utterly creeped out by the "evil dummy come to life" trope in Magic, or episodes of The Twilight Zone or even Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. (I think in that last one, the innocuous dummes were possessed by evil disembodied space aliens! It seemed like a Cold War allegory about Warsaw Pact client states to me.)
Now that American Idol spinoffs are tending toward Major Bowes-type talent contests, I hope to see more riffs on offbeat ventriloquism along the lines of Madame or Lester, only (obviously!) more contemporary. Somewhere out there, there's just gotta be a Gen-Y slacker type who might pursue the art, for example.
posted by pax digita at 12:31 PM on July 28, 2006
Just the other day, I was musing about how as a kid I enjoyed WF & M or K, F & O, that mouse on the Andy Williams Show, the "Lonely Goatherd" puppet-show sequence in The Sound of Music or even the Muppets, yet I've been utterly creeped out by the "evil dummy come to life" trope in Magic, or episodes of The Twilight Zone or even Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. (I think in that last one, the innocuous dummes were possessed by evil disembodied space aliens! It seemed like a Cold War allegory about Warsaw Pact client states to me.)
Now that American Idol spinoffs are tending toward Major Bowes-type talent contests, I hope to see more riffs on offbeat ventriloquism along the lines of Madame or Lester, only (obviously!) more contemporary. Somewhere out there, there's just gotta be a Gen-Y slacker type who might pursue the art, for example.
posted by pax digita at 12:31 PM on July 28, 2006
Madamism. Flowers may be gone, but Madame will never leave showbusiness.
Exactly, and it would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
posted by amberglow at 9:15 PM on July 28, 2006
Exactly, and it would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
posted by amberglow at 9:15 PM on July 28, 2006
"I credit his gentle yet outrageously funny spirit for helping me get over my own homophobia."
...Wayland Flowers was gay? ...Shit! I didn't know! No really, I didn't. Madame was iffy okay when I was a kid, but her humor was over my head, and today it's dated and shallow.
Wayland didn't hold a candle to Henson and Oz, man. I practically worshipped Jim Henson. When I was a kid, I wanted to be a puppeteer when I grew up. I even collected puppets and put on shows for birthday parties and stuff. Made some meager money until junior high school. Word got around and people started making fun of me. I kinda lost interest after that.
Objectively speaking? I was no Jim Henson. I wasn't even as good as Wayland Flowers. Probably best I didn't persue it. My parents were very supportive though and I'm eternally thankful for that. Puppetry was a labor of love. ...Hmm.. Maybe I shoulda persued it, whether people made fun of me or not. Whether I was good or not. I enjoyed it. That should been all that mattered, really. Eh. Live and learn.
Always tried to do my work behind a stage though. Didn't like the 'puppet in the lap' ventriloquist gig. The puppeteer shouldn't be visible. Focus should be on the puppet.
I will tell ya though. Today's best living ventriloquist show, bar none, is DED.
posted by ZachsMind at 9:42 PM on July 28, 2006
...Wayland Flowers was gay? ...Shit! I didn't know! No really, I didn't. Madame was iffy okay when I was a kid, but her humor was over my head, and today it's dated and shallow.
Wayland didn't hold a candle to Henson and Oz, man. I practically worshipped Jim Henson. When I was a kid, I wanted to be a puppeteer when I grew up. I even collected puppets and put on shows for birthday parties and stuff. Made some meager money until junior high school. Word got around and people started making fun of me. I kinda lost interest after that.
Objectively speaking? I was no Jim Henson. I wasn't even as good as Wayland Flowers. Probably best I didn't persue it. My parents were very supportive though and I'm eternally thankful for that. Puppetry was a labor of love. ...Hmm.. Maybe I shoulda persued it, whether people made fun of me or not. Whether I was good or not. I enjoyed it. That should been all that mattered, really. Eh. Live and learn.
Always tried to do my work behind a stage though. Didn't like the 'puppet in the lap' ventriloquist gig. The puppeteer shouldn't be visible. Focus should be on the puppet.
I will tell ya though. Today's best living ventriloquist show, bar none, is DED.
posted by ZachsMind at 9:42 PM on July 28, 2006
I maintain that Frank Oz is the best puppeteer I have ever seen. And that fact that Jim Henson saw him do a silent puppet act at age 17 and tried to hire him on the spot backs me up, I think.
Wayland Flowers was also phenomenal. Madame had only a small selections of gestures -- mouth open and clothes, arms moved roughly on sticks. And yet Flowers created an entire characters with these simple movements. You may not like madame as a character -- she is atypically grotesque. You may not like the jokes, which do seem dated, although they are often unusually well-crafted and surprisingly bawdy in Flowers' live stage act. But his skill as a puppeteer was astounding.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:16 PM on July 28, 2006
Wayland Flowers was also phenomenal. Madame had only a small selections of gestures -- mouth open and clothes, arms moved roughly on sticks. And yet Flowers created an entire characters with these simple movements. You may not like madame as a character -- she is atypically grotesque. You may not like the jokes, which do seem dated, although they are often unusually well-crafted and surprisingly bawdy in Flowers' live stage act. But his skill as a puppeteer was astounding.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:16 PM on July 28, 2006
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posted by Astro Zombie at 10:21 PM on July 27, 2006