Comments on: The militaryshowtune complex.

The militaryshowtune complex.

delmoi — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 15:57:32 -0800

Are you or have you ever been a member of community theater? Sgt. Bleu Copas, an Arabic language specialist was kicked out of the army recently after an "investigation" that involved questions about whether he had a lot of gay friends, and if he'd ever been involved in community theater.

By: diastematic

diastematic — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:00:35 -0800

I always thought Christopher Guest was freakin' commie.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:19:34 -0800

Hmm, actually I meant to link the first link to this followup

By: LordSludge

LordSludge — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:20:56 -0800

Well, of course. If you have gay friends and are involved in community theater, you are (by definition) a liberal and therefore (again, by definition) a terrorist.

By: Busithoth

Busithoth — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:30:36 -0800

way to keep an eye on the ball, eh? "we'll not only beat you, terrorism, we'll do it was all our [suspected] gays tied up back home! make no mistake, every male soldier you see would rather have your mother/sister/daughter than you, paterfamilias!"

By: jb

jb — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:33:31 -0800

Firing your Arabic linguists isn't exactly the most efficient policy for waging war in an Arabic country. Aside from the fact that his superior officer violated Army policy by asking him if he was gay. That's what "don't ask, don't tell" means. They aren't allowed to ask, you aren't suposed to tell.

By: Nasty Canasta

Nasty Canasta — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:44:25 -0800

The superior officer in question was the director of the highly visible 82nd Airborne Chorus, of which Sgt Copas was a member. There's a slightly bizarre military showbiz thing going on here.

By: jonp72

jonp72 — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:45:04 -0800

Firing your Arabic linguists isn't exactly the most efficient policy for waging war in an Arabic country. I agree. On the other hand, why do so many Arabic linguists turn out to be gay? Not that there's anything wrong with that... I've seen so many press accounts of Arabic linguists getting discharged for homosexuality that the percentage of gay people among the population of Arabic linguists probably exceeds the Kinsey Report's estimate of the gay population at 10 percent. Is there really a higher percentage of gays and lesbians among Arabic linguists than among the general population? Or are some of these accusations of homosexuality part of a campaign to purge all Arabic linguists from the military? Just wondering.

By: Postroad

Postroad — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:49:39 -0800

I dislike the military polichy of dumping gays from service but for those involved in community theatre, well, you know....they are odd people who babble about Break a leg and the show must go on and there's no business like show business...no way to run an army

By: amberglow

amberglow — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:12:35 -0800

post : > we certainly don't want people who follow through and actually finish what they start in our army, huh? ; > This guy joins a long long list of qualified and excellent people who have been driven out, while the recruiters take the mentally ill and skinheads--disgusting.

By: EarBucket

EarBucket — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:17:20 -0800

Huh. I've done community theater in the past. . . I gotta go. I have something to tell my girlfriend.

By: Kid Charlemagne

Kid Charlemagne — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:18:42 -0800

Don't these guys know there's a war going on?

By: Nasty Canasta

Nasty Canasta — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:25:33 -0800

Here's the 82nd Airborne chorus in action (warning, embedded audio) "Put on your boots, boots, boots And parachute-chutes-chutes"

By: zeypher

zeypher — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:30:35 -0800

I have several close friends (who are also gay) who have lived in Monterey, CA over the past 15 years... directly adjacent to the Defense Language Institute. And careful sampling by these men universally indicates that there is a considerably higher than average incidence of homosexuality among the students at that school. I doubt there is anything special about Arabic studies... it's just that the student pool already seems to have a bias. No idea why. Could make all sorts of facile and suspect guesses though... above average lingusitic aptitude among gay men, less concern about the 'non-macho' nature of a linguist MOS, or just harassment in other areas of the miliatary driving gays into a relatively educated and liberal section of the armed forces. But no matter what, DADT(DP), is a shameful waste of time and talent in our military.

By: FormlessOne

FormlessOne — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:35:10 -0800

On the other hand, why do so many Arabic linguists turn out to be gay? It's the right-to-left script - flips everything, really. Seriously, when are we going to learn that this sort of thing is, simply, none of our business?

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 18:12:03 -0800

why do so many Arabic linguists turn out to be gay? Lawrence of Arabia?

By: Jimbob

Jimbob — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 18:47:34 -0800

Firing because he had gay friends? A stupid turn of events, and a bigoted, Neanderthal way to throw away a potentially valuable person. Firing because of involvment in community theatre, though? Completely fucking justified.

By: ericb

ericb — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 18:49:07 -0800

I have several close friends (who are also gay) who have lived in Monterey, CA over the past 15 years... directly adjacent to the Defense Language Institute Gay Linguists Get The Boot

"Nine Army linguists, including six trained to speak Arabic, have been dismissed from the military because they are gay. The soldiers' dismissals come at a time when the military is facing a critical shortage of translators and interpreters for the war on terrorism. ...Six were specializing in Arabic, two were studying Korean and one was studying Mandarin Chinese. All were at the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, the military's primary language training center. The government has aggressively recruited Arabic speakers since the Sept. 11 attacks. " [CBS News | November 14, 2002]

By: ericb

ericb — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 18:52:53 -0800

Annual "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Dismissals [PDF] A chart documenting lesbian, gay and bisexual dismissals under "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" -- 1993-2005 (from the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network).

By: PeterMcDermott

PeterMcDermott — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 18:53:17 -0800

why do so many Arabic linguists turn out to be gay? Don't you know the old Arabian proverb? A woman for duty, A boy for pleasure, But a melon for ecstasy.

By: taursir

taursir — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:02:16 -0800

There are some theories that gay guys tend to be good at languages. Hyperpolyglotism is apparently also correlated with homosexuality in general. Also... There's this LiveJournal community that just might relate to this.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:10:59 -0800

i think we're good (because of the necessity in most if not all social situations and society) at assessing codes and negotiating difference, etc--i guess it would be associated with a facility for languages too, maybe.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:12:27 -0800

Did LeVay find differences there too, in his studies?

By: taursir

taursir — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:18:01 -0800

I guess I always find it easy to switch between various registers and sociolects as the situation requires incase there's going to be someone horribly opposed to me being gay and I for some reason need to hide it. If this translates into skill with other languages (which I do have), then maybe its not that I'm gay so much as I have always had a flexibility in expressing myself that relates to this. So I don't know. I'm always hesitant to say that someone is good at something because they're gay, but I seem to meet a lot of other queers in linguistics.

By: HTuttle

HTuttle — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 20:32:04 -0800

The hardest thing about doing community theater is breaking the news to your dad.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 20:33:37 -0800

We don't need linguists, our Commander is Wise and Holy.

By: scarabic

scarabic — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 20:51:25 -0800

I'm sure no one here will be shocked to hear that yes, I have in fact participated in community theater.

By: Pinback

Pinback — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 21:16:08 -0800

"It's the actors! They're in it with the linguists, I tell ya! They're building community theatres for Arabs, I swear to God!"

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 21:36:54 -0800

Wow. Someone needs to learn the difference between enemies that matter (ie. bin Laden and friends) and enemies that don't matter (ie. the dude at the office). This is the time to offer to blow anyone who'd do Arabic translations, not fire them!

By: dhartung

dhartung — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 23:01:02 -0800

Combat theatre. He was being asked if he'd ever participated in combat theatre. I hear they mount "Our Town" in Fallujah every six months or so.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 23:26:24 -0800

I hear the stage lighting is done with white phosphorus.

By: jiawen

jiawen — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 00:41:26 -0800

I've occasionally thought of going to work for the government, maybe in the State Department (I'm fluent in Mandarin), but two things prevent me: the thought that I'd be supporting a regime like the current one, and that I'd probably never get in in the first place because I'd be considered GLBT.

By: justkevin

justkevin — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 06:28:13 -0800

Am I the only one who thinks that Justin Rood is overly focused on the community theater aspect of this issue? Sgt. Copas was dismissed as a result of being gay, apparently in spite of having not violated the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. There's your outrage right there. As far as I can tell, the community theater question was an attempt to validate the anonymous accuser's account of a chat room session. Without more information, concluding that the military is targeting community theater participants is ridiculous.

By: thanotopsis

thanotopsis — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 06:53:40 -0800

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that this guy was probably not a cunning linguist... /ducks

By: pax digita

pax digita — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:18:06 -0800

This isn't quite as blatant as a "THE LESBIANS ARE NOW BEING TAKEN OFF THE SHIP. THE LESBIANS ARE NOW BEING TAKEN OFF THE SHIP." announcement over the 1MC loudspeakers throughout the ship, but it does show that the wussy-ass DADT policy is a bunch of craven hypocritical bullshit that lets the chain of command get away with backstabbing honorably serving people who keep their personal lives off the scope. Given that the previous Administration chickened out over this, though, the current one is extremely unlikely to lead from the front -- this bunch couldn't lead a toddler to a diaper change.

By: zoogleplex

zoogleplex — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 10:13:05 -0800

You gay folks should start your own army or something, for defending America. Leave it open to everyone, you'd probably have quite a fighting machine pretty quickly! I mean, with all your double-income no-kids high-paying-entertainment-salary lifestyles, you can probably afford to equip it out of pocket. Certainly you'd have no shortage of highly-trained ex-US-military soldiers, NCOs and officers available to form an immediate chain-of-command! I'm almost serious.

By: ericb

ericb — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 10:24:50 -0800

Hey -- the Greeks had in right particulalry with the elite troop of 150 pairs of gay lovers who were motivated to fight to maximum ability to protect each other.

""For men of the same tribe or family little value one another when dangers press; but a band cemented by friendship grounded upon love is never to be broken, and invincible; since the lovers, ashamed to be base in sight of their beloved, and the beloved before their lovers, willingly rush into danger for the relief of one another." [Plutarch, "Life of Pelopidas," tr. John Dryden]

Heck, it wasn't until Patroclus was killed that Achilles got all fired up to take on the Trojans in 'The Iliad,' seeking revenge for the death of his lover.

By: ericb

ericb — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 10:27:09 -0800

elite troop of 150 pairs of gay lovers = The Sacred Band of Thebes.

By: UrineSoakedRube

UrineSoakedRube — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 10:48:12 -0800

I can't believe nobody's linked to this yet.

By: small_ruminant

small_ruminant — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 12:08:29 -0800

A melon for ecstasy?

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 13:36:52 -0800

Is there really a higher percentage of gays and lesbians among Arabic linguists than among the general population? Or are some of these accusations of homosexuality part of a campaign to purge all Arabic linguists from the military? Just wondering. Or perhaps, by virtue of their (classified) work, they are under greater scrutiny than, say, latrine scubbers. Gays within the information gathering and processing part of the military might be more easily "outable", simply because there are more eyes on them looking for unrelated security lapses.

By: Western Infidels

Western Infidels — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 13:42:00 -0800

jonp72: ...why do so many Arabic linguists turn out to be gay? "So many?" How many, precisely, are we really talking about here? Sure, incidents like this have been reported before, but what is the total number of active-duty linguistic personnel who have been dismissed? A dozen? Less? It's likely that the military has dismissed hundreds or thousands of gays in the last decade. It's the sort of thing that only becomes big news when the dismissal is so obviously and stupefyingly idiotic for reasons entirely apart from the reason for the dismissal.

By: EarBucket

EarBucket — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 13:43:56 -0800

"So many?" How many, precisely, are we really talking about here? Sure, incidents like this have been reported before, but what is the total number of active-duty linguistic personnel who have been dismissed? A dozen? Less? 55.

By: EarBucket

EarBucket — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 14:13:58 -0800

Sorry, I should have been more clear--that's fifty-five Arabic language specialists alone. The total number of military personnel dismissed is over 11,000, with nearly 800 in critical specialist roles.

By: Fuzzy Monster

Fuzzy Monster — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 14:29:39 -0800

George Bush doesn't care about gay Arabic language specialists.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 15:11:05 -0800

You gay folks should start your own army or something, for defending America. Why should we? What has America done for us, except to legalize and codify discrimination against us? We've always been in the military and always will be--we've killed and died for this country like everyone else, and will continue to do so. Let the country pay us back instead of continuing to persecute and prosecute.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 15:22:53 -0800

Maybe we should start our own army, to defend ourselves against what America is becoming.

By: zoogleplex

zoogleplex — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 17:05:16 -0800

"Why should we? What has America done for us, except to legalize and codify discrimination against us?" You have a point. However, I'd refer you to the Tuskegee Airmen, and other similar examples, for something of an analogous situation... Note that I'd join your army, and I'm straight. :)

By: ericb

ericb — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 17:27:47 -0800

Note that I'd join your army, and I'm straight. :) Okay -- you can join the Gay Army. Who gets to be the "gay general?"

By: Iax

Iax — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 17:52:24 -0800

This is really stupid with the whole "war on terror." All the muslim fundamentalists hate gays too, so I would think there would be less of a chance for someone who is gay to turn out to be a traitor or give out information. Though they would have to get rid of the TADT policy, so blackmail wouldnt be an issue either.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:24:37 -0800

You'd think they'd focus their attention on the real artist threat to military rule: those damn mimes.