It's getting ready to pop!

July 28, 2006 7:43 PM

IRAQ RADIO: Turkish soldiers Enter Northern Iraq by Chan News Agency: The 1st division comander of Iraq's Kurdistan Democratic Party (IKDP) Fahmi Sofi, claimed that about 200 Turkish soldiers entered two kelometers into northern Iraq on Wednesday. His statement came from the Voice of Iraqi Radio.......
posted by Unregistered User (58 comments total)

remember this?
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 7:45 PM on July 28, 2006

ohhh shit.
posted by odinsdream at 7:46 PM on July 28, 2006

Are we ready for the third World War?
posted by hortense at 7:59 PM on July 28, 2006

well, that bites.
posted by brandz at 7:59 PM on July 28, 2006

Hey man, this is just our new mid-east policy in action. We're letting the root causes boil over in order to figure out what they are (and address them) rather then seeking a false calm.
posted by delmoi at 8:00 PM on July 28, 2006

At the same time the US military has opened an new war on Al Sadr and his Mahdi militia. It is the Iraq part of the Oceania moment - declaring a new war on the Shiite militia instead of the old war on Sunni dead enders.

Do or Die Against Iraq's Death Squads


and if that isn't enough, enter: The perfect propagenda Hezbollah leader said to be hiding in Iranian Embassy

Intelligence reports indicate the leader of Hezbollah is hiding in a foreign mission in Beirut, possibly the Iranian Embassy, according to U.S. and Israeli officials.
Israeli military and intelligence forces are continuing to hunt for Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah's secretary-general, who fled his headquarters in Beirut shortly before Israeli jets bombed the building last week.
"We think he is in an embassy," said one U.S. official with access to the intelligence reports, while Israeli intelligence speculates Sheik Nasrallah is hiding in the Iranian Embassy.
...
But other reports from the region indicate Sheik Nasrallah may be in Damascus.
...
A Middle East diplomat confirmed that Israel is seeking out Sheik Nasrallah and that the Iranian Embassy appears mostly evacuated. However, the diplomat stated: "Wherever he is, he is a legitimate target," similar to al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden. "He's responsible for organizing attacks and killing Israelis," the diplomat said.

If confirmed, the reports could lead to an Israeli air strike on the embassy, possibly leading to a widening of the conflict, said officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity. Foreign embassies are sovereign territory and an attack on an embassy could be considered an act of war.

gee, ya think? we are getting a double whammy from the moonietimes. first the bolton recommendation from the 'liberal democrat' , then this.

Turn up the heat under Iran, the leading Shia regime in the region. Turn it up on all sides.

The moment Iran boils over . . .

Bush SMASH!!!
posted by Unregistered User at 8:04 PM on July 28, 2006

Not to speak completely opportunistically, but now might be the time to buy oil.
posted by Pastabagel at 8:09 PM on July 28, 2006

oh fuck
posted by spiderwire at 8:13 PM on July 28, 2006

LET'S DO THIS! LIGHT 'EM UP!
posted by keswick at 8:16 PM on July 28, 2006

Tensions mount at Iraq-Turkey border


Turks Massing on Iraq Border

July 24, 2006: It appears Turkey is preparing to conduct a larger anti-PKK operation in northern Iraq. The Turkish government told the US that (paraphrasing) "Turkey will decide (not the US)" if Turkish troops enter Iraq in force." Turkish intelligence consistently reports that from 4000 to 5000 PKK guerrillas are operating from bases inside northern Iraq.


Welcome to the wackyworld of unintended consequences, courtesy of the Bush Administration!
posted by Unregistered User at 8:17 PM on July 28, 2006

That wasn't in the schedule. We should send Bill Kristol in there to give those Turks a good spanking.
posted by homunculus at 8:20 PM on July 28, 2006

Apparently, the Turkish military is comparing their cross-border harrassment by the PKK to Israel's harassment by Hezbollah, and want to use that to justify some similar intervention.
posted by gsteff at 8:23 PM on July 28, 2006

New Hezbollah rocket type hits south of Haifa.
posted by spiderwire at 8:24 PM on July 28, 2006

I was speaking to Peter Galbraith last week while he was in Seattle about the Turkish-Kurdish border tensions and he stated that because the turkish government has substantial investments in northern Iraq (oil-related) it would not be in their best financial interest to escalate this kind of situation.

He's been back and forth in Kurdistan/northern Iraq for twenty years so one would hope he knows what he's talking about.

Let's all cross our fingers and hope this doesn't escalate anymore than it already has.

Here's more about Galbraith on Kurdistan/ Turkey

Galbraith: Turkey's policy toward Iraqi Kurdistan so far has been realistic and forward-looking. Iraq's constitution creates a fully self-governing Kurdistan and includes a procedure to resolve the status of Kirkuk. Turkey accepts that it is the sovereign right of Iraq to organize itself as the peoples of Iraq choose. Turkey has chosen—very wisely in my view—to work closely with the Kurdistan Regional Government. It has also promoted Turkish business in Kurdistan, including a Turkish company that is developing the Taq Taq oil field under a contract with the Kurdistan Regional Government.
posted by mk1gti at 8:31 PM on July 28, 2006

Well, as far as I can remember Turkish Armed Forces entered Northern Iraq in the past several times to fight against PKK, especially after the 1991 Gulf War. imho, nothing new for the Turkish side.
posted by caelumluna at 8:33 PM on July 28, 2006

Fuck it, let it escalate. Let's settle this sonofabitch once and for all.
posted by mischief at 8:38 PM on July 28, 2006

Wow, the crazy conspiracy guy I work with may not be so crazy after all predicted this.
Bugger's still a nut, though.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:45 PM on July 28, 2006

mischief writes "Let's settle this sonofabitch once and for all."

Right, because in the history of humanity that approach has worked so well. A short, quick war, and then everything is settled.
posted by signal at 8:46 PM on July 28, 2006

propagenda

good word, Unregistered User.
posted by brandz at 8:47 PM on July 28, 2006

Bugger's still a nut, though

Even a stopped clock, and all that.
posted by jason's_planet at 8:49 PM on July 28, 2006

Here's the deal:

Turkey agrees to staff the suicidal NATO mission to southern Lebanon in exchange for permission to invade Kurdistan. We knew the Kurds would be sold out, it was just a question of when and for how much.
posted by Unregistered User at 8:51 PM on July 28, 2006

Who said "quick"? Let it go until one beats the other into submission.
posted by mischief at 8:54 PM on July 28, 2006

i'm not impressed by this ... i can't cite a source, but lately i read that there were already a few hundred turkish troops a couple of miles inside iraq's borders ... and 200 more on a quick hit and run excursion isn't a significant development
posted by pyramid termite at 8:56 PM on July 28, 2006

"Let's settle this sonofabitch once and for all."

Yeah, because that's worked sooooo well for Israel against the arab world and all that. Look! They're such good friends and all!

little arab girl: Hi Israel, wanna come over and play with my beach ball?

Israel: Get away from me you stinky arab, I'll cuuuuttttt yyyyooourrrrr tttthhhrrrooooaaatt ! ! !

arab child: why is the man so angry mommy?

arab woman: I don't know dear, let's just keep quiet and move along. . .

Israel: Yaaaaarrrrggggghhhh ! ! ! (leaps forward, kills woman, hacks apart little girl.

bystanders: Why the hell did you do that?

Israel: I was excercising my right to protect myself! Come near me or say anything to me again about it and I'll cut *your* throat ! ! !

U.S.: Israel's right, I saw it, the woman and child very well may have had some kind of weapon hidden within the beach ball.. . .

Everyone shakes their head and walks away . . .
posted by mk1gti at 8:56 PM on July 28, 2006 [2 favorites]

Very insightful, mk1gti.
posted by gsteff at 8:59 PM on July 28, 2006

mk1gti: I hope you had some tissue paper handy.
posted by signal at 8:59 PM on July 28, 2006

They interviewed a lady on NPR who said, "There was peace before the politician got involved." I don't know if she was Israeli or Lebanese, I wish I could find the story online. I was surprised to hear someone who was blasted out of her home say something so frank about the situation. Somehow I think that if the people had a chance to work it out, it would all turn out okay. And if the US would stop selling weapons to Israel also, that too.
posted by peeedro at 9:15 PM on July 28, 2006

for crying or. . . . something else.

Here's something a bit more topical, all the inter-ethnic tensions going on in Iraq, Mosul and Kirkuk that might explain why a Kurd is not a Kurd, a Shite is not a Shite, a Sunni is not a Sunni. And around and around it goes.

Iran is also indicating they may start dealing with the kurds on their own. . . Where does it all end?
posted by mk1gti at 9:16 PM on July 28, 2006

I agree with the weapons to Israel thing, perhaps if they didn't have such a ready option to use force, perhaps they might try. . . . Diplomacy? Negotiation? A workable compromise? Talking instead of dictating?
posted by mk1gti at 9:18 PM on July 28, 2006

oops: selling, giving, whatever.
posted by peeedro at 9:26 PM on July 28, 2006

I was doing some reading on Dohuk, near the Turkish border. Apparently there's a U.S. military presence there.

Here's some googlin'
posted by mk1gti at 9:33 PM on July 28, 2006

Right, because in the history of humanity that approach has worked so well. A short, quick war, and then everything is settled.

I don't recall any "quick" wars that did the trick, but the latter World War certainly put an end to an enemy to global peace. Twice: once for the Nazi expansion, and once for the Japanese expansion.

If this is a war on the expansion of theocracy, I'm all for it. I don't think the USA, a country that at times seems damnably close to being run by the theocracy of evangelist television and crappy "news" programming, is the country to be leading a war against theocracy.

Personally, I think we can find a better way to contain theocracies. Not doing any trade with them would be a helluva start.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:34 PM on July 28, 2006

5 fresh fish,
Yeah that first world war had no bearing on that second word war which had no bearing on that cold war.
posted by mulligan at 10:13 PM on July 28, 2006

I was speaking to Peter Galbraith last week while he was in Seattle about the Turkish-Kurdish border tensions and he stated that because the turkish government has substantial investments in northern Iraq (oil-related) it would not be in their best financial interest to escalate this kind of situation.
Of late, what's in the best interest of a country doesn't seem to factor much in the decision making process, so that doesn't reassure me I'm afraid.
posted by chill at 10:34 PM on July 28, 2006

WWI was an unnecessary fuck-up, rather like the USA's involvement in Iraq. WWII was required to clean up the mess made by the assholes who ran WWI.

It appears WWIII may be required to clean up the mess made by the assholes who ran the so-called "War on Terror."
posted by five fresh fish at 10:40 PM on July 28, 2006 [1 favorite]

Oh, dear. Don't know what to say. But, hey, democracy is on the march.
posted by brundlefly at 10:41 PM on July 28, 2006

We need to get all those fuckers over there on some ecstacy or something. Seriously.

I mean, all this tribal bullshit is just not right. In the era of atomic warfare and biological warfare, only VERY VERY BAD THINGS can come of this crap.

Basically, the stakes is high. And this is just another symptom.

And I hate to say it, but the hamfisted 'diplomacy' my government is engaging in is just not helping at all, either.

This is all very discouraging.

I'll be over here, eating some damn cookie dough or something. Listening to some music. Trying not to think about crazy idiots trying to kill each other.
posted by geekhorde at 11:50 PM on July 28, 2006

LET'S DO THIS! LIGHT 'EM UP!
Fuck it, let it escalate. Let's settle this sonofabitch once and for all.

Isn't that already happening? What more do you want?

Its interesting (and entirely consistent with US foreign policy) that despite an appalling human rights record Turkey has received massive military support from America.

America: not fit for purpose as a superpower.
posted by verisimilitude at 2:02 AM on July 29, 2006

Never mind 'not fit for purpose', according to Chomsky America's showing many of the signs of being a Failed State.
posted by kaemaril at 2:45 AM on July 29, 2006

Oh please, for the love of god, not another Chomksy thread. We did it two weeks ago. On this same subject.


...In other news, I'm thinking of starting a campaign for Magic 8-Ball '08. "Because Even Random Decisions Would Be Better Than This." Catchy, no?
posted by spiderwire at 3:08 AM on July 29, 2006

A Chomsky thread? Where? I see a reference to Chomsky, but where's the thread?

Is a reference all it takes? In that case:
I don't like George W. Bush (Wikipedia).
I think bestiality (Wikipedia) is wrong.

Oh my god, a George W. Bush Bestiality thread!
posted by kaemaril at 3:38 AM on July 29, 2006

(BTW, that last link has no naughty pictures or words but the topic itself could be considered NSFW)
posted by kaemaril at 3:45 AM on July 29, 2006

Peeedro, I heard that too. She was Israeli, and she was talking about how she would never teach her son to hate Arabs and so on.

I also heard one of the mothers of these kidnapped soldiers calling for an end to the fighting the other day.
posted by leapingsheep at 4:04 AM on July 29, 2006

Fuck it, let it escalate. Let's settle this sonofabitch once and for all.

It's probably worth examining this sentiment for a minute (but no more).

I think this sort of thinking comes from a belief that the world, as a closed system, always tends toward equilibrium. That the more violent and entropic a situation becomes, it will naturally tend toward peace and order after people get tired of the violence, and it essentially blows itself out. I think this view is abjectly false, but I can understand the desire for the world to be thus.

At the end of the day, this is exactly the sort of idealism that gets us into these intractable messes in the first place. The principle fact in these things is that things can ALWAYS get worse, no matter where you think rock bottom is.
posted by psmealey at 5:12 AM on July 29, 2006

Ok, here's my foreign policy suggestion: we bomb the hell out of the middle east, and then all of the sand fuses into one giant glass-floored parking lot.

Tada! No more parking problems.
posted by craven_morhead at 7:48 AM on July 29, 2006

i've had it with these motherfucking conflicts in the motherfucking middle east.
posted by snofoam at 8:13 AM on July 29, 2006

I'm glad all you fuckwits (not just you, mischief) find the prospect of the death and suffering coming to these brown people amusing. We would hate for you to not have something to chuckle at.
posted by signal at 8:27 AM on July 29, 2006

Whether they want to acknowledge it or not, their input has no effect whatsoever on what occurs over there.

However, it does do a very good job of illustrating why the U.S. has fallen into obscurity: It has lost it's ability to reason, so it stumbles like an angry, blind drunk until it either burns out or dies.

With all the possibilities emerging in the middle east of an islamic bomb and the unlikelihood of finding and taking away such a device it would only seem logical to get everyone to the table to make nice and stop strutting around like tough little spoiled schoolchildren before someone (or a lot of someones) gets hurt, especially the kid (and his screwy little buddy) at the end of the table that always keeps to themself but always seems to cause the most mischief.
posted by mk1gti at 8:58 AM on July 29, 2006

Of late, what's in the best interest of a country doesn't seem to factor much in the decision making process, so that doesn't reassure me I'm afraid.
-- chill --

I think this situation with Turkey and northern Iraq might be blown a bit out of proportion. I really don't think it will escalate and I think that theres a lot of 'backchatter' going on right now between the Turks and Kurds to make sure that doesn't happen.

My impression is that the kurdish government has a good thing going now and so does the turkish government with the oil deals with the kurds. My guess is that the kurds are co-operating with the turks in this and that the turks are doing what they can while in northern Iraq to tread lightly while taking care of what may be an embarrassment to them (the kurdish government).

The bottom line is this: The PKK is traveling into both Turkey and Iraq and both countries are deeply upset about all the guerilla fighting taking place in both countries.
I don't think the kurds wish to sacrifice the hope of Kurdistan to go through another Anfal.
posted by mk1gti at 9:06 AM on July 29, 2006

"America: not fit for purpose as a superpower."

Some of us have been saying that for years. When we said we shouldn't get involved in these things other people kept insisting that was a very bad attitude to have. Didn't we care about the world?

Well, yeah, I care about the rest of the world. But I think the best solution for all involved is for the US to stay the fuck out of it.

Oh and on a lighter note, "I want these motherfucking Turks out of motherfucking motherfucking Iraq!"

But that was just something that popped into my head.
posted by nyxxxx at 9:24 AM on July 29, 2006

WWI was an unnecessary fuck-up, rather like the USA's involvement in Iraq.

WWI was a result of the Franco-Prussian war and the fact that the various actors involved were just itching to go to war together for some reason, any reason.

It was definitely unnecessary, but it was no fuck-up.
posted by moonbiter at 9:26 AM on July 29, 2006

Blah Blah Blah...

Haven't you guys learned the lessons of nuclear warfare? Wars only need to last as long as we want. Then we push the little blinky button and declare victory.

Sheesh.

It's like you guys have no faith in our President.
posted by JWright at 11:03 AM on July 29, 2006

JWright, the lessons of nuclear warfare are this: It works out just fine saying 'do what we say or we'll nuke y'all. When the other guy (or guys) have their own nukes, have the method to deliver them to your shores and your own shores have no nuclear fallout shelters to protect said loud populace, then one really begins to appreciate Mutually Assured Destruction. Because it's mutual. It's destruction. It's assured. It's all inclusive.

People need to start learning to get along with one another instead of waving sabers in the beerhall or someone's going to get hurt. It could very well be the loud, arrogant bully running around posturing and intimidating others, and to that I think everyone else in the pub is going to be saying 'good riddance, bastard had it coming. Now maybe they'll STFU. Ooops, I guess they're gonna STFU anyway. They're *dead*.

Is that the lesson you were refering to regarding nuclear warfare?
posted by mk1gti at 11:08 AM on July 29, 2006

No, the lesson I was referring to is taught in Sarcasm 101.

It's like that old saying, "it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye". Well, with WMD™ floating around, and all these little skirmishes starting to blend together into one big ugly war, it seems like someone's going to have to lose that eye for everyone to take a step back and say they're ready to listen.

And that's damn scary.
posted by JWright at 11:28 AM on July 29, 2006

Thanks for the reminder leapingsheep, I still wish I could hear that interview again. When it came on I tuned it out; I already heard some this-side-vs-that-side interviews earlier in the week that were full of anger and recrimination. I expected more of the same and wasn't interested. I've already heard enough misdirected anger that I wasn't ready for more.

This woman they spoke to told about losing her neighbors and being separated from her family. She talked about the confusion and sorrows of being caught in the middle of this conflict. What caught my ear was her answer to the question about how she feels about "the other side." She answered by telling about how she learned from her father to care for and to care about her neighbors, despite their differences. Then she didn't so much appeal for a sane solution, but expressed her belief that there were more people like her than otherwise, people that lament this mess and the bullies that made it.

If anyone knows how to work this internet thing and finds this interview, please link to it... thanks!
posted by peeedro at 11:36 AM on July 29, 2006

No, there's no more nuclear wars. Cheyenne Mountain is being closed down, remember? From now on we fight real wars, mano a mano.
posted by spiderwire at 1:33 PM on July 29, 2006

Cheyenne Mountain's being closed? Damnit, where will they put Stargate Command?
posted by kaemaril at 1:51 PM on July 29, 2006

nyxxxx writes "Some of us have been saying that for years. When we said we shouldn't get involved in these things other people kept insisting that was a very bad attitude to have. Didn't we care about the world? Well, yeah, I care about the rest of the world. But I think the best solution for all involved is for the US to stay the fuck out of it. "

The funny thing is, six years ago that aversion to nation-building would have been considered mainstream Conservatism.
posted by orthogonality at 12:38 AM on July 30, 2006