Comments on: Number stations

Number stations

caddis — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 16:22:42 -0800

Project Evil - Number stations appear on VoIP and it just seems very mysterious. Slashdot picks up the story. Now all is revealed.

By: Mid

Mid — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 17:00:12 -0800

Numbers stations are way cool. Check out the "yosemite sam" transmissions, for example [.wav]. That's a burst of encrypted data preceding the Yosemite Sam sample. Nothing gets the paranoid in me going more than a bunch of cryptic stuff read over the radio with lots of static and cracking in the background.

By: ericb

ericb — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 17:06:06 -0800

Be sure to check out the Conet Project [previously discussed: 1, 2, 3].

By: Mid

Mid — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 17:10:02 -0800

By: delmoi

delmoi — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 17:14:08 -0800

Especially since they can only be picked up in the UK area.

By: Skwirl

Skwirl — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 17:23:28 -0800

What I don't understand is how numbers stations can possibly still be an effective/efficient method of transmitting spy stuff.

If you stopped broadcasting the numbers stations, then the other governments would know that you had switched mediums. Safer to just keep broadcasting garbage. Might also be useful to keep around as a method of last resort.

By: Jimbob

Jimbob — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 17:23:37 -0800

You'd think coded IRC /msgs would be about 10 million times easier and cheaper and more secure, for example. When they make computers that are as cheap as a $10 shortwave receiver, with internet availability anywhere on the globe, give me a call.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 17:23:55 -0800

Oh, by the way, OMG VIRAL.

By: Mid

Mid — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 17:32:44 -0800

When they make computers that are as cheap as a $10 shortwave receiver, with internet availability anywhere on the globe, give me a call. Um, internet cafe? Public library? Airport lounge? You could keep mixing it up all the time. And no receiver to lug around.

By: lekvar

lekvar — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 17:36:20 -0800

Interesting, if painful, read. Hint to cryptopranksters - dark blue links on a black background interspersed in the main text are neither big nor clever.

By: zoogleplex

zoogleplex — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 17:52:25 -0800

I think this is very interesting. As long as the one-time pad system is kept secure and truly random (which is no easy feat), this could be quite effective and efficient. Couple this sort of thing with pre-arranged one-time codes, and it would be highly robust, even if done in "broad daylight" like this. There are lots of ways other than phone numbers to distribute numbers station info. Txt messages over cell phones, even. Jimbob, most actual spies operate in areas that are full of people and with access to many different communications media. Spies who are removed from such things, say, out in the wilds of Afghanistan looking for Osama, might only get limited usefulness from a numbers station, I think.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 19:39:11 -0800

"Spies who are removed from such things, say, out in the wilds of Afghanistan looking for Osama, might only get limited usefulness from a numbers station, I think." Yeah, but they're just so much fun to listen to, anyway. And not a lot else to do out in the wilds of Afghanistan, either. Well, ok, there's heroin. Numbers stations on heroin, now that would really rock!

By: MrZero

MrZero — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 19:58:49 -0800

This sounds very cool. Thanks for bringing numbers stations to my attention. Oh, does anyone need another layer of tinfoil? I've got extra.

By: the jam

the jam — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 20:05:06 -0800

When I was in high school, I lived in a small town in the Florida Everglades. One day, listening to the radio, a numbers station transmission blasted through the music I was listening to. I turned the dial and discovered that the numbers transmission was drowning out every frequency, and loudly. The only explanation I can come up with is that the source of the transmission must have been very, very close to my house. Never heard it again, but I've been fascinated / creeped out about numbers stations ever since.

By: Opposite George

Opposite George — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 20:08:10 -0800

Especially since they can only be picked up in the UK area. Not true.

By: j-urb

j-urb — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 20:44:12 -0800

IMO: this is interesting.

By: Slarty Bartfast

Slarty Bartfast — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 21:19:28 -0800

But what does this have to do with Lost?

By: quite unimportant

quite unimportant — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 02:20:21 -0800

Oh, I luurrrrve me some numbers stations. I keep telling myself I'm going to head out into the desert and find a transmitter, but somehow that never happens. The mind controlling beams and weather emitters hovering over the Los Angeles basin keep me placid. And la2600 still meets? Thought they crapped out a while ago. Hmm.

By: jsonic

jsonic — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 07:40:54 -0800

What I don't understand is how numbers stations can possibly still be an effective/efficient method of transmitting spy stuff. You'd think coded IRC /msgs would be about 10 million times easier and cheaper and more secure, for example. The entire point of broadcasting number stations over radio waves is to hide the people/spies who recieve the broadcasts. A good short-wave broadcast can reach the other side of the world. Anyone between here and there can receive the broadcast completely anonymously. The spy-hunters have no way of determining who is receiving the broadcasts. Broadcast number stations both encrypt the data, and hide who receives it. That is why VOIP and IRC are terrible replacements for this type of communication. The data is still encrypted with VOIP/IRC, but it is much easier to figure out who is receiving the messages. And if you're a spy, that last part is extremely important. There are ways to attempt to mask your origin when using VOIP and IRC, but they all have potential flaws, especially when compared to the security of broadcast number stations. For instance, you could use TOR to encrypt communications and hide your origin, but it's quite easy to figure out that you're using TOR. Why draw attention to yourself when you don't have to? If you combine a properly used one-time pad with a broadcast number station, then the communication is completely secure, and completely anonymous (unless the gestapo catches you decoding the message or finds your OTP copy).

By: caddis

caddis — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 08:02:50 -0800

And la2600 still meets? Yeah, I heard about this on Off the Hook last night and other 2600 members had no idea who was doing this. They even started doing something along the same lines themselves in response, potentially spoiling the fun for la2600.