Something's happening here, what it is aint exactly clear. ..

August 11, 2006 1:51 PM

Government Releases Detailed Information on 9/11 CrashesComplete Air-Ground Transcripts of Hijacked 9/11 Flight Recordings Declassified Washington, DC - August 11, 2006 - The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) this week released full transcripts of the air traffic control recordings from the four flights hijacked on September 11, 2001, and meticulous Flight Path Studies for three of the flights, in response to a Freedom of Information request by the National Security Archive. The studies provide the most detailed technical information available to date related to the hijackings, and the transcripts of the aircraft-to-ground communications are the first complete government disclosure of each flight's air traffic control recordings.
posted by Unregistered User (59 comments total)

Surely THIS will disprove all those conspira... oh, who am I kidding, the government is just releasing carefully forged documents to cover up the fact that they blew up everything in order to make money.
posted by Vindaloo at 1:58 PM on August 11, 2006

The UAL93 flight data recorder info is way too technical, maybe someone with aviation knowledge can make sense of it.

However, I thought there was also a cockpit voice recorder from that flight that was recovered but it's not included here. Was that ever released?
posted by Pastabagel at 2:00 PM on August 11, 2006

Goddamn, Vindaloo, aren't the conspiracy nuts loony enough to ignore yet?
posted by deadfather at 2:02 PM on August 11, 2006

oh, who am I kidding, the government is just releasing carefully forged documents to cover up the fact that they blew up everything in order to make money.

It's actually refreshingly honest. Five minutes in, one of the controllers reminds the robot pilots not to get too close to WTC 7, since it's going to be simultaneously brought down by a controlled demolition.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 2:03 PM on August 11, 2006

Hmm. A 9/11 Data Release.

The American Fear Factor must not be high enough.
posted by eriko at 2:06 PM on August 11, 2006

Somebody say "conspira... " er,
WTC Steel Returns! Or in reality it never left.

And you thought all the 9/11 WTC wreckage was swept up in eight months and sent to be smelted in foreign countries or secret places in our own strange land, right? And that the rest of the rubble was buried in Fresh Kills (appropriate name), Staten Island. So did I. But now it turns out last remains of the Towers are being stored in an 80,000-square-foot hangar at JFK International Airport in New York. Ain't that a kick in the head?

The previous fact comes from the fifth paragraph of an article Fragments of Twin Towers may return to Coatesville by Jennifer Miller at DailyLocal.com. It's a story about Coatesville, Pennsylvania, wanting to get some WTC steel "trees" for the future National Iron & Steel Heritage Museum, to be built in the city's Lukens National Historic District. The Graystone Society is the group propelling the museum project. Well, how nice.

Scot Huston, a "direct" descendant of the Luken family, president of the Graystone Society, and Gene DiOrio, Graystone Society vice president, traveled to that JFK hangar to meet with New York Port Authority officials about bringing some of the remnants back to Coatesville. That's even sweeter.

But how about giving some steel "trees" to some 9-11 scientists and engineers? To see if the steel is still strong or if there is any evidence of explosives on them or to test their melting points. I mean since NYPA officials are accommodating these Coatesville folks, let's remind them there is a 9-11 Truth Movement concerned with all these little details in little ole New York City, where the tragedy occurred. And this movement lives around the nation and the world as well.

So to me, further sharing of the "trees" for forensic research seems like a modest proposal, especially in light of some of the darker purposes for which the wreckage is being shared. Trust me. Nothing's ever simple concerning 9-11.

Warship built out of Twin Towers Wreckage

Thats amazing that the steel is sitting in hangars at JFK. If true...I say we test it for thermite traces and other explosive chemicals... It all makes sense. They spread the reports that 'all' the steel was shipped by barge to Shanghai just so no one would bug them for it to examine for evidence.

But you know maniacal serial killers...they always want to keep a few 'trophy's' of their kills as talismans.
posted by Unregistered User at 2:06 PM on August 11, 2006

Weird how UA 175 reports to the tower that they heard the accidental transmission by the terrorists on UA 11.

I think Flight 93 won't be released because you probably can hear victims fighting in the cockpit and they want to protect privacy.

Please don't let this thread be taken over by 9/11 conspiracy stuff.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:10 PM on August 11, 2006

Please don't let this thread be taken over by 9/11 conspiracy stuff.

You must be part of the conspiracy that wants to silence the truth!
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 2:15 PM on August 11, 2006

You know maniacal serial killers... they always want to silence the truth.
posted by thirteenkiller at 2:16 PM on August 11, 2006

Goddamn, Vindaloo, aren't the conspiracy nuts loony enough to ignore yet?
posted by deadfather at 2:02 PM PST

Yea, like all them nutters who claimed Hitler ordered the burning of the governement buildings or lied about The Poles attacked Germany.

Or the ones who claim that FDR knew the Japaneese were going to attack Pearl Harbor.

Or how Isrealies were playing dress-up-as-Egyptians and going to attack others

Or how the US had a plan to dress up as Cubans and attack the US as a reason to attack Cuba

You are nuts if you believe anything beyond the offical story as approved by the government, right?
posted by rough ashlar at 2:16 PM on August 11, 2006

Thermite leaves aluminum oxide and iron. Both would be completely normal to find in any office building, so I'm not sure what you'd be looking for, Unregistered User.
posted by NortonDC at 2:21 PM on August 11, 2006

Only in America can you be "Un-American

Only in America does the label 'conspiracy theorist' have negative connotations.

America, where we kill killers to prove to killers that killing is wrong.
posted by Unregistered User at 2:21 PM on August 11, 2006

You are nuts if you believe anything beyond the offical story as approved by the government, right?

I believe everything I read on the inter-web...

Did you hear that the jews didn't show up for work on 9/11? Must be true, I read it online...
posted by Fidel Cashflow at 2:22 PM on August 11, 2006

JFK was shot by zombie Abe Lincoln. I have proof.
posted by keswick at 2:25 PM on August 11, 2006

America, where we kill killers to prove to killers that killing is wrong.

Aren't you deep...
posted by Fidel Cashflow at 2:27 PM on August 11, 2006

[insert ridiculous combination of conspiracy culture memes here]
posted by sonofsamiam at 2:28 PM on August 11, 2006

Just in time..
posted by Laen at 2:28 PM on August 11, 2006

Yeah, that damn interweb and it's CT's...

9/11 Commission Testimony: Norman Mineta: WMV video download (1.8 MB)

There was a young man who came in and said to the vice president "The plane is 50 miles out" [from Washington], "The plane is 30 miles out", and when it got down to "The plane is 10 miles out" the young man also said to the vice president "Do the orders still stand?", and the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said "Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary?"

Rumsfeld: we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions

Rumsfeld said on September 10: "According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions"

The next day, September 11, the Pentagon is hit. But where?

"The impact area included both the Navy operations center and the office complex of the National Guard and Army Reserve. It was also the end of the fiscal year and important budget information was in the damaged area."

-Arlington County After-Action Report
posted by Unregistered User at 2:31 PM on August 11, 2006

The interesting stuff in the UAL93 flight recorder data isn't until page 17, which plots out all the data on a combined chart. Everything looks about normal until a blip at 9:28, where the plane takes a bit of a downward dip, but the autopilot was on, so it was probably just normal chop.

This is all from page 17, I know very little about flight 93 and I haven't cross-referenced with anything.

If I'm reading this right, the autopilot is on most of the time. All altitudes are pressure altitude, approximately feet above sea level.

Beginning at 9:34, however, it's switched off for about 30 seconds, the plane pitches up a bit and banks a little to the right, and it gets a bit rough (vertical acceleration shows some sudden shakiness.)

AP is reactivated, and the plane pitches upward to about 10 degrees, banking left 15 degrees, which brings the plane up from ~35000 feet and a heading of ~270 (due west) to ~40000 feet, heading 120 (southeast), over five minutes, which brings us to 9:39.

Note here that the service ceiling of a Boeing 757 is 41000 feet, and a service ceiling is about where it's going to take you a seriously long time to climb any higher.

Between 9:39 and 9:40, the plane is made straight and level. At 9:41, the engines are brought down to 50% of full, and the plane starts downward.

From 9:41 to 9:45, the plane is descending from ~41000 feet to ~20000 feet. (Which is about 5000 feet per minute, which is pretty serious.) The plane levels sharply at 20000 feet at 9:45, bringing the airspeed down from about 370 knots to 270 knots over the next minute or so.

There's some very shaky moments from 9:45 to 9:47, vertical acceleration looks like they're experiencing some pretty severe up-and-downs, although no stronger than previous turbulence. The autopilot is switched on and off for a second, and the plane starts back down (9:47).

It's a very smooth descent, under autopilot; the speed is maintained at 270 knots until 9:52 (15000 feet), then 300 knots. The descent rate is about normal for a jet. 10000 feet is passed at 9:55.

Impact is just before 9:58.
posted by blacklite at 2:36 PM on August 11, 2006

Fidel Cashflow

"It is no sign of mental health to be well adjusted to a sick [and corrupt] society."
- J. Krishnamurti
posted by Unregistered User at 2:37 PM on August 11, 2006

Did you hear that the jews didn't show up for work on 9/11? Must be true, I read it online...

Really? Wow. That's special that you believe what you are told online. I'm telling you that if you don't step away from your keyboard the MRSA on that keyboard will get under your fingernails and kill you.

Wonder what was on this tape?

Six air traffic controllers provided accounts of their communications with hijacked planes on Sept. 11, 2001, on a tape recording that was later destroyed by Federal Aviation Administration managers, according to a government investigative report issued today.
posted by rough ashlar at 2:37 PM on August 11, 2006

Do you believe everything you read in the Washington Post?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:40 PM on August 11, 2006

Jesus H. Christ, isn't there some blog you can wank off on, UU?
posted by deadfather at 2:41 PM on August 11, 2006

Damn, that interweb just keeps going and going...

Lou Dobbs Wakes Up to 9/11 Lies
posted by Unregistered User at 2:44 PM on August 11, 2006

Only in America does the label 'conspiracy theorist' have negative connotations.

Not really, no. It's associated with nuttiness in most of the English speaking world last I checked.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 2:44 PM on August 11, 2006

Lessee, Unregistered User provides us with a quote by Jerry Mazza. What else has Mr. Mazza revealed to us?

"Government manipulation of weather for terror and destruction is one pattern your local weatherman is surely not pointing out."

"AIDS was man made in the USA"

etc.
posted by MrMoonPie at 2:46 PM on August 11, 2006

Blazecock Pileon

The question is, do you believe everything you believe?
posted by Unregistered User at 2:46 PM on August 11, 2006

MrMoonPie

Throw the baby out with the bathwater much?
A stopped clock..ahh fuck it..
posted by Unregistered User at 2:50 PM on August 11, 2006

It seems worth noting that various disparate parts of the government can't give a coherent account of what was done and said on 9/11, not to mention other amazing coincidences that lead up to the day's events.

It takes a declassification request to get transcripts five years after the fact, and people wonder why there are conspiracy theories? Rational observers can make up their own minds, but regardless of one's views, it is clear the government has done itself a major disservice with its attitude of secrecy.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:58 PM on August 11, 2006

*blink*

Can I just take the yellow pill?
posted by ZachsMind at 3:03 PM on August 11, 2006

(I'm not sure if anyone cares, but this and the previous comment were a response to Pastabagel's "The UAL93 flight data recorder info is way too technical, maybe someone with aviation knowledge can make sense of it." I found it interesting, anyway, so I figure I should put the analysis, such as it is, somewhere. I am not a licensed pilot, btw.

After checking more pages, I've verified that I was reading it right, at least in that autopilot was used for all of UAL93's maneuvers. Page 29 has autopilot settings details:

Around 9:35, A/P was set to: ~120 degrees heading, 15000 feet altitude, +1000 feet per minute vertical speed. Then, altitude, heading, and vertical speed hold were activated. It looks as though V/S (Vertical Speed) Hold overrides altitude, as the plane was climbing, and I guess they were too busy to notice.

At around 9:36, autopilot speed was set to about 350 knots, presumably the maximum, and I don't think it had any effect.

(9:39) Once the plane got to 41000 feet and was basically unable to climb anymore, they flipped off V/S Hold and altitude hold, figured it out, apparently, and set the A/P to -3500 or so fpm vertical speed, 190 knots, reactivated it, and let it go. Again, I don't think the speed had any effect.

The V/S was then set to 0 at about 9:46, and heading hold was activated. The V/S Hold was toggled on and off a couple of times (~9:46:30, ~9:48:30). The autopilot speed is gradually turned up, eventually settling at ~250 knots. The altitude was set to 5000 at 9:48 (but remember it's overrided by V/S); the V/S setting is only measured once a minute, but it is set to a couple things over that time.

Eventually, (9:50) it's stable at -1000 feet per minute, and set active. A minute later or so, the A/P speed setting is turned up to 300 knots.
posted by blacklite at 3:05 PM on August 11, 2006

Blacklite, if you cross reference this to the transcript from the voice recorder, it fits - eg, at 9.59 the fight begins and the plane begins its erratic manuevers.
posted by A189Nut at 3:11 PM on August 11, 2006

Please don't let this thread website be taken over by 9/11 conspiracy stuff and other raving lunatics.
posted by LarryC at 3:15 PM on August 11, 2006

blacklite: It sounds to me like the hijackers used the autopilot to take the plane close enough to the ground to crash it easily, and then crashed it.

Thats amazing that the steel is sitting in hangars at JFK. If true...I say we test it for thermite traces and other explosive chemicals... It all makes sense. They spread the reports that 'all' the steel was shipped by barge to Shanghai just so no one would bug them for it to examine for evidence.

But what's the point? 9/11 conspiracy theorists will just belive the tests were fake.
posted by delmoi at 3:20 PM on August 11, 2006

Conspiracy theorists don't believe, the know.
posted by uncle harold at 3:27 PM on August 11, 2006

It's been like what, 4 years? Jesus people, get over it, there are more important things to worry about.
posted by signal at 3:33 PM on August 11, 2006

But what's the point? 9/11 conspiracy theorists will just belive the tests were fake.
posted by delmoi at 3:20 PM PST

Depends on how the tests were done and documented. Alas, the collapse location was not treated as a crime scene, so it is hard to be able to say 'this beam was found in the condition you now see it at place X and damage Y was done at place Z or in transit.' And that would be the weasling out.
posted by rough ashlar at 3:36 PM on August 11, 2006

Signal: "It's been like what, 4 years? Jesus people, get over it, there are more important things to worry about."

I want one of those pills what Signal took!

*blink*
posted by ZachsMind at 3:44 PM on August 11, 2006

Of course the "realist's" on the blue don't believe Canadian economist Michel Chossudovsky either so, meh...The Pentagon's "Second 911"

"Another [9/11] attack could create both a justification and an opportunity to retaliate against some known targets"

In the month following last year's 7/7 London bombings, Vice President Dick Cheney is reported to have instructed USSTRATCOM to draw up a contingency plan "to be employed in response to another 9/11-type terrorist attack on the United States". Implied in the contingency plan was the certainty that Iran would be behind a Second 9/11.

Damn them CT's...
posted by Unregistered User at 3:53 PM on August 11, 2006

er, that's ...The Pentagon's "Second 911"
posted by Unregistered User at 3:55 PM on August 11, 2006

Do you believe everything you read in the Washington Post?

Fuck, I don't believe the baseball scores in The Washington Post.

Thermite leaves aluminum oxide and iron. Both would be completely normal to find in any office building

Not in the concentration you get in a thermite reaction. The very large lump of very pure iron you get out of the reaction -- the one often coated in slag from lesser materials near the reaction is a dramatic hint that a normal fire wasn't what happened there.

Of course, cutting a horizontal beam with thermite is hard. It tends to melt through whatever is holding it next to the beam.
posted by eriko at 4:25 PM on August 11, 2006

Whether or not there was a conspiracy behind the original events, the undisputed facts are the really scary and disgusting parts:

Deprioritizing terrorism while planning (remember, before 9/11) to invade Iraq
Ignoring the threats (remember "Bin Laden determined to strike US"?)
Taking the longest vacation in the history of the office of the Presidency prior to the attacks
Using the attacks as an excuse to invade a country which was absolutely not involved in any way
Lying to congress (and when the truth became apparent to all, congress makes not a peep. Cue founding fathers spinning in graves)

These events are really an indictment of the two party system. This sports team mentality we have in politics is doing nothing to improve the country, instead it's just pitting people against each other and making problems worse. The democrats, had they been in control of congress and had the president been a democrat, would've probably let their president slide just like the republicans have. The whole lot of them should be thrown out on their ears, and we start over from scratch. Every incumbent, both (R) and (D), deserves to lose.
posted by mullingitover at 4:48 PM on August 11, 2006

Det cord works a lot better.
posted by zoogleplex at 4:49 PM on August 11, 2006

This story is just now released. I bet it was in place and acted upon before 9/11. The movie of "Flight 93" was pure propoganda.
posted by Balisong at 4:57 PM on August 11, 2006

Blacklite

Thanks for the breakdown. any thoughts as to why the autopilot would be switched on and off by the terrorists who had the plane between 9:30 and 9:55. Wouldn't you just plug in a destination and let the autopilot fly you there? OR does it not work that way?
posted by Pastabagel at 6:10 PM on August 11, 2006

After Unregistered User's first comment, I thought she was being sarcastic. After her second comment, I knew that she was serious. After her third comment, I thought, "Wow, this is really annoying." I kept thinking that until I reached her ninth comment, when I thought, "Oh my god, she's right! It's all one big conspiracy!" It's a good thing she felt the need to post nine comments on the subject. If she had stopped at eight, I never would have realized The Truth (which, apparently, was Out There the whole time).
posted by Afroblanco at 6:17 PM on August 11, 2006

This is the worst outrage since they faked the moon-landing, though not as bad as when they covered up Jesus' marriage to Mary. All-in-all, I would say it is about as bad as the Illuminati secretly running the world, and I've learned to live with that.
posted by LarryC at 6:35 PM on August 11, 2006

[this is good]
posted by b1tr0t at 7:13 PM on August 11, 2006

Sept. 11, 200?
posted by robot at 7:43 PM on August 11, 2006

Wow, robot. That's incredible. It actually makes sense though, considering the fact that the endless repetition has always been 9/11, 9/11, 9/11... Never the year... still, wow.
posted by Stauf at 7:51 PM on August 11, 2006

Isn't there a middle ground between CT and whatever you call someone who doesn't think the government has misbehaved wrt 9/11? A Complicity Theorist?
posted by owhydididoit at 8:02 PM on August 11, 2006

...the endless repetition has always been 9/11, 9/11, 9/11... Never the year... still, wow...

There's nothing particularly scary about the year. Saying it breaks the symmetry with the number for emergency services, diluting its power.

That is, it becomes just another date, like 12/7/1941 or 8/6/1945.
posted by owhydididoit at 8:10 PM on August 11, 2006

ZachsMind writes "I want one of those pills what Signal took! "

What are you implying? My point is, there's like 1000 more important issues than the WTC attack.
posted by signal at 8:51 PM on August 11, 2006

Not really. So much of the fiasco that is the last five years stems directly from 9/11 and it's justification of expansive overreach by the executive.
posted by stenseng at 10:08 PM on August 11, 2006

Isn't there a middle ground between CT and whatever you call someone who doesn't think the government has misbehaved wrt 9/11? A Complicity Theorist?

"You're either with us or you're with the Terrorists! "...hahahaha

Welcome to the aristotle semantic straight jacket.
Deconstruction, and asking questions is for sissy's. Plato's noble lie is the culture of today!
posted by Unregistered User at 11:56 PM on August 11, 2006

>>America, where we kill killers to prove to killers that killing is wrong.
>Aren't you deep...

Must be an N-con. Easier to ridicule the man than to disprove the plain truth, isn't it?
posted by Twang at 4:38 AM on August 12, 2006

My point is, there's like 1000 more important issues than the WTC attack.
posted by signal at 8:51 PM PST

Like what?

You claim to have 'like' 1000 of 'em.
posted by rough ashlar at 10:40 AM on August 12, 2006

The wordwide gap between the few rich and the many poor, uneven distribution of resources, food, energy, lack of education, womens' rights, gay rights, childrens' rights, animal cruelty, ignorance, global climate change, racism, clasism, civil rights, and that goddamn music kids today call "rock", to name a few.
posted by signal at 2:26 PM on August 12, 2006

Thanks for the breakdown. any thoughts as to why the autopilot would be switched on and off by the terrorists who had the plane between 9:30 and 9:55[?]

From the way the data looks, I actually think that the terrorists were going to give manual flight a try, initially, and it didn't work out very well, so they just turned on A/P. Although, like I mentioned, they screwed up with the vertical speed hold. I don't think they had very much training at all, really, just enough to know the basics and know how to work the A/P. (Which doesn't really take that much.) I think they were under the impression that you had to flick it on and off to change some of the settings, and/or they were just trying whatever they could think of. When you switch A/P off, there's a big warning light and a noise, so that's probably why it goes immediately back on again (except for that first time where it was off for about a full minute.)
posted by blacklite at 10:45 PM on August 12, 2006