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August 23, 2006 6:59 AM   Subscribe

In Soviet Russia, Flag Flies You! [Google Cache] Just as in election years past, the American flag has once again become a political football. Apparently, flying the flag upside down, a traditional indication of "distress" - (Section 8a. "The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property") - has displeased some patriots as well. Fortunately, the Marines are there [Google cache]... [via digg][Original digg-effected link here].
posted by rzklkng (146 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite

 
Since the original link and cache are performing inconsistently, here's the whole article from progressive.org:
Arrest, Death Threat, for Farmer with Upside Down Flag
By Matthew Rothschild
July 19, 2006

Dale Klyn raises beef cows in Corydon, Iowa.

For the past six years, he has been flying an American flag on his property.

But since May 21, that flag has been upside down.

He gives two reasons.

First, he’s angry at a judge for allowing a debtor of his to declare bankruptcy. The debtor, who had bought a business from Klyn on a contract and still owed him $282,000, now only has to “pay me six cents on the dollar,” says Klyn. “The judge approved that on the 18th of May. I was pretty upset about that.”

Second, he wants to show solidarity for Terri Jones.

She’s the Iowa mom who has been flying her flag upside down after her son returned from the Iraq War and committed suicide. (Klyn had never met her before.)

“When I got the Des Moines Register and read the article about Terri Jones and how her son didn’t get the medical attention he needed, I decided I’m going to support her and oppose what the judge had done and fly my flag upside down,” he says.

It got a reaction.

“I went to the local Case equipment dealer and bought some parts, and the salesman come out and he asked me why I was flying the flag upside down,” Klyn says. “So I explained it to him.”

But the salesman wasn’t sold, telling Klyn, “I’ve lost all respect for you. I’ll buy you a one-way ticket anywhere you want to go out of the country,” Klyn recalls.

Klyn says his postal worker also remarked on it.

“The mail carrier left me a personal note,” he says.

A local TV news reporter then came out and did a story on him.

“The next thing I knew I’d been charged with disorderly conduct,” he says. “I was surprised. I have the right and the freedom to do that.”

On July 6, Klyn, represented by the Iowa ACLU, met with a magistrate.

“I pled not guilty,” Klyn says. “No trial date has been set.” Terri Jones, by the way, went to court that day to support him.

“She came to my hearing," he says. “It was very kind of her.”

Alan Wilson, the county attorney who is prosecuting the case, did not return three phone messages for comment.

But Klyn’s troubles go beyond this court case.

He faces death threats from a forum on a Marine vets’ website, www.leatherneck.com, which calls itself the “Marine Corps Community for USMC Veterans.”

That forum contained the following remarks from four different Marines:

“Any scout snipers live in Corydon, Iowa???”

“Corn hole ’m.”

“Fly him under it upside down.”

“If the flag is flying upside down, it means he is in trouble, right? I think we Marines should show up and get him ‘out’ of trouble.”

Says Klyn: “I view it as a threat."
posted by rzklkng at 7:03 AM on August 23, 2006


Good this there's all this heat about the flag to distract everyone from the administration's trampling and burning of the constitution.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 7:04 AM on August 23, 2006


the administration's trampling and burning of the constitution.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 9:04 AM CST on August 23


The administration is burning the Constitution???????? Wow. Got a link for that? I can't believe I missed it. Hopefully someone notfied the National Archives.
posted by dios at 7:12 AM on August 23, 2006


The caliber of those comments is way low.

Proper convservative message-board style would be, "Anyone check behind the flag for Murtha hiding his fat ass? What about Hillary's thighs? Amirite? She's fat!" or the ubiquitous, "Let's turn his yard into a glass desert", or my personal favorite, "Freedom of teh speech should be conserved for PATRIOTS ONLY! SEMPER FI, MOTHERFUCKER!"
posted by jon_kill at 7:12 AM on August 23, 2006


The administration is burning the Constitution???????? Wow. Got a link for that? I can't believe I missed it. Hopefully someone notfied the National Archives.

Um, like, it's a metaphor , okay?
posted by ZenMasterThis at 7:14 AM on August 23, 2006


Oh, a metaphor, eh? So you weren't intending the Administration was burning the Constiution like burning a flag. In that case, what was the metaphor supposed to be saying? The Consitution is still the law of the land, last I checked. I'm pretty sure all the provisions that are in it still exist. Or was it a metaphor that was supposed to represent vacant-headed, facile, political tropes?
posted by dios at 7:18 AM on August 23, 2006


what is up with the flag-loving, anyway? it seems so misguided.
posted by owhydididoit at 7:19 AM on August 23, 2006


Pretty much anything pisses conservatives off these days.

It's actually pretty funny.
posted by StrasbourgSecaucus at 7:20 AM on August 23, 2006


To the Marines flying the flag upside down is a big deal. Only it's not as big a deal when it's someone else's flag.

Seriously, the Canadian flag has a leaf on it. It couldn't be more obvious which side is up and which is down. WTF?
posted by clevershark at 7:20 AM on August 23, 2006


So you weren't intending the Administration was burning the Constiution like burning a flag.

It's so cute when you get all excited and stumble over your words. Take a breath, big boy.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 7:26 AM on August 23, 2006


Usually, I'm rather level-headed. In most posts of this type, I would add a comment wherein I ask Dios a question about just how different the world would be if he were in charge. I never receive an answer. But this morning, as I am running on little sleep, I can only say:

Shut up, Dios.
posted by grabbingsand at 7:32 AM on August 23, 2006


clevershark - Leaves hang from trees stem up; by perhaps some unconscious reasoning, someone must've felt the inversion looked more "natural".
posted by Smart Dalek at 7:33 AM on August 23, 2006


I'm glad you think I'm cute AS. But I regret to inform you that I'm not excited. Any stumbling over words was likely a byproduct of the amazement to the point of humor I feel every time I hear someone who couldn't tell you anything about the Constitution or the law or rights start gnashing their teeth about how the Constitution is being trampled/burned/torn etc merely because they don't like a political action.
posted by dios at 7:33 AM on August 23, 2006


Shut up, Dios.
posted by grabbingsand at 9:32 AM CST on August 23


The irony of being told that in a thread that is about free speech is pretty impressive. Is that what you were aiming for?
posted by dios at 7:34 AM on August 23, 2006


In that case, what was the metaphor supposed to be saying?

proof that a law degree doesn't imply understanding of rhetoric, language or literary tropes

"there's a bench here? ... oh, you mean the big desk your honor is sitting at ..."
posted by pyramid termite at 7:35 AM on August 23, 2006


Remeber -- dios is a troll! He's only a troll. Feel free not to respond to any of his postings. He certainly won't respond to yours if they contradict his point!

Attention is like oxygen to trolls. If you ignore them, they go away.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 7:38 AM on August 23, 2006


So do you actually have anything to say about the article, the threats this man has received and how that relates to the military and our current world affairs? Of course you don't. So shut the fuck up and leave. This is why mathowie gives you timeouts, remember?
posted by prostyle at 7:38 AM on August 23, 2006


All right, enough with the train wreck. Let's start this thread over again.

dios, what is your opinion of an American citizen flying an American flag upside-down as a signal of distress? Do American citizens possess the right to do this, or do they not? Should they possess this right? What, in your opinion, is the proper response to this action?
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:42 AM on August 23, 2006




Why shouldn't the Constitution be burned? After all, it's just a goddamned piece of paper...
posted by c13 at 7:43 AM on August 23, 2006


So do you actually have anything to say about the article, the threats this man has received and how that relates to the military and our current world affairs?

The same free speech to fly the flag upside down protects those that bitch about someone flying the flag upside down. If someone posted a death threat, it should be dealt with accordingly.

Trying to turn some comments by some blowhards on a internet message board into some grand political point about your political enemies as a whole or about the Country or about the sanctity of the Constitution in the eyes of the Government is such asinity that it barely raises to the level of deserving of specific comment. I have a serious question: do you honestly think this story is worthy of discussion? Some assholes acted like they shouldn't. Any extension of this story beyond that is pure partisan wankery. Pardon me for pointing that out.
posted by dios at 7:44 AM on August 23, 2006


If someone posted a death threat, it should be dealt with accordingly.

Thank you, dios. I'm glad to see you agree with us.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:45 AM on August 23, 2006


Any extension of this story beyond that is pure partisan wankery.

Partisan?
posted by sonofsamiam at 7:46 AM on August 23, 2006



posted by johnny novak at 7:47 AM on August 23, 2006


When Nine Eleven happened, I purchased an American flag and put it on the wall in my living room. Had meant to get one of those poles for it but ...Then I witnessed GW retaliate by blowing Afghanistan's rubble into more rubble, taking a left turn at Alberquerque and ending up in Iraq. So one night in a fit of creative frustration, I turned the American flag upside down and left it like that for months. Then one day my landlord was visiting, and while he and I share some similar political views, he's distinctively more conservative and patriotic than me. As he was leaving he did a doubletake at my upside down american flag and had a look on his face that several hours later made me feel... perhaps I should just take the darn thing down.

My monthly rent is heaven. You don't understand. So, the flag is currently in a drawer somewhere. In the dark. Attracting moths no doubt. So is it more or less shameful to proudly display an American flag upside down as a statement for patriotism but against The Patriot Act, as opposed to hiding it in a drawer? I got no clue.
posted by ZachsMind at 7:47 AM on August 23, 2006 [2 favorites]


dios, what is your opinion of an American citizen flying an American flag upside-down as a signal of distress? Do American citizens possess the right to do this, or do they not? Should they possess this right? What, in your opinion, is the proper response to this action?
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:42 AM CST on August 23


There isn't anything wrong with it at all. Americans have the right to safely do whatever they like with a flag they own as a matter of political speech. They can be criticized for doing specific things with it if it offends someone else. That is the way our laws work. The freedom to do something does not entail the freedom to do something without any consequence. Violence is not an acceptable reaction. Complaining is.

And as the poster right before you noted, the Constitution is just a piece of paper. If it disappeared, the laws and limitations it places on the government would continue to exist since their existence is dependent on the assent of the governed, not a piece of paper. But just like the flag, if you owned a copy of the Constitution, there is nothing wrong with safely burning it or whatever. But expect criticism.

Freedom of speech is a political prerequisite, and one must realize that it protects other people's ability to criticize you just as it allows you to criticize what you want.
posted by dios at 7:49 AM on August 23, 2006


Trying to turn some comments by some blowhards on a internet message board into some grand political point about your political enemies as a whole or about the Country or about the sanctity of the Constitution in the eyes of the Government is such asinity that it barely raises to the level of deserving of specific comment.

i think you missed the part where the guy got arrested for disorderly conduct ... so it would appear that the person's free speech rights are actually being threatened by the government

it helps if you read the articles
posted by pyramid termite at 7:50 AM on August 23, 2006


I have a serious question: do you honestly think this story is worthy of discussion?

If you trace it back to the root of the Des Moines Register article, yes I think it is particularly interesting.
Iowa's newest veterans number more than 9,125, but only 1,956 have enrolled for VA benefits. That's about 21 percent; nationally 25 to 30 percent of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans are accessing mental health care.

...

Studies show that between 12 percent and 20 percent of troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan have symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder. That could mean that as many as 2,000 Iowans - with more than 9,000 Iraq or Afghanistan veterans living here, and at least 1,249 more currently serving in the Middle East - are suffering now or could develop symptoms.
This is about families and the mental health of returning soldiers. You have participated and forwarded your own derail to combat a statement that you found to be disengenuous. It does not seem unreasonable to extrapolate those issues to the context in which these young individuals find themselves. You found it to be a pointless conclusion, and you railed against it. Not only did you miss the point, but you're spinning your wheels forwarding your own perspective on partisan relations. As always.

i think you missed the part where the guy got arrested for disorderly conduct ... so it would appear that the person's free speech rights are actually being threatened by the government

it helps if you read the articles


Bingo.
posted by prostyle at 7:54 AM on August 23, 2006


dios - You should read the article so you don't look like a complete asshole when you start blathering on about something that was clearly explained in the original article and in the first comment of the thread.
posted by bshort at 7:55 AM on August 23, 2006


it would appear that the person's free speech rights are actually being threatened by the government

it helps if you read the articles
posted by pyramid termite at 9:50 AM CST on August 23


Forgive me for not accepting a very bare bones article which doesn't gives us any facts. If he was arrested for flying it upside down, then he will get off. If he was arrested for something else, then the story might be different. See, I'm not going to exactly believe that this story was accurately written by this author in a peridocial called the progressive because the story sounds like bullshit that he was arrested merely because his flag was upside down because logic, training, and experience suggests that is not likely the reason. I do believe that he was vehemently criticized, though, because logic and experience suggests that is likely.

Call me a skeptic, I guess.
posted by dios at 7:56 AM on August 23, 2006


Freedom of speech has consequences, as this farmer has been shown. At the same time, threatening to kill someone has consequences too. If anything, this thread and the comments on both digg and the leatherneck forum need to realize that some are in need of a civics lesson, removed from their partisan biases.
posted by rzklkng at 7:57 AM on August 23, 2006


Call me a skeptic, I guess.

or too lazy to do some research, especially when it might disagree with your personal prejudices

a better article from the centerville, iowa ad express and daily iowegian

he WAS arrested for flying the flag upside down and only that

you lose
posted by pyramid termite at 7:59 AM on August 23, 2006


Big deal. Lots of upside-down flags flying in New Orleans. Lots of city flags flying instead and several Jolly Rogers, too. It's not a prosecutable offense.
posted by caderoux at 7:59 AM on August 23, 2006


dios, the problem is not that "he will get off" from the charges related to the arrest. It's the fact that the arrest happened at all that's the problem. The Constitution is not the salad bar, you don't get to pick the conditions when the ammendments apply and don't
posted by rzklkng at 8:01 AM on August 23, 2006


As a USMC veteran, I can reassure that Iowa farmer that the only Marines who know where Iowa is are from there, and those who live in that state won't find him because they probably would hold the map upside-down. ;-P
posted by mischief at 8:02 AM on August 23, 2006


Anyway, the Military recently showed the world what they really thought our flag was for:


It's the fact that the arrest happened at all that's the problem.

Didn't you hear? He's a skeptic! That means he can shit on any thread he wants, whenever he wants! No pretext necessary.
posted by prostyle at 8:03 AM on August 23, 2006


a better article from the centerville, iowa ad express and daily iowegian

Well, gee, it would have been great for the poster to use that instead of the one he did (supported by another link which reported about the article in the progressive).

Of if the OP would have bothered to link to the very interesting Iowa code section:

Under Iowa code section 723.4 subsection 6, “A person commits a simple misdemeanor when the person knowingly and publicly uses the flag of the United States in such a manner as to show disrespect for the flag as a symbol of the United States, with the intent or reasonable expectation that such use will provoke or encourage another to commit a public offense. “

This is interesting in light of Texas v. Johnson. The question is whether he intended to breach the peace or whether an actual breach of the peace occurred. Surely they have a disoderly conduct that he could have been charged with if he was actually engaged in it. But if he is prosecuted under this statute, then it seems to contradict the teaching of Texas v. Johnson and is therefore likely to be struck down.

you lose
posted by pyramid termite at 9:59 AM CST on August 23


I lost what? (I actually won Metafilter. Did you?) Seriously though, if you can't engage in a discussion above this level of schoolyard pissiness, then you ought to reconsider every criticizing anyone else's behavior here.
posted by dios at 8:08 AM on August 23, 2006


All I know is that as long as Marines keep killing, I keep getting richer.


posted by The Jesse Helms at 8:12 AM on August 23, 2006


This is the problem with non stories - the lead to arguments where people don't agree on the nothings they are aruging about.

Everyone reads the link, and they want it to say that he was prosecuted for flying the flag upside down. That's something people can argue about. That's a story.

But that isn't the story. The guy got arrested for disordely conduct for his protest that we have no facts about. What if he was drunk? Or belligerent? Or pantsless? You don't know.

In any case, he's fighting it, so...meh.

On the subject of actually flying the flag upside down, come off it people. It's a stupid flag. He has the right to burn it and pee on it. He certainly has the right to fly it upside down.
posted by Pastabagel at 8:14 AM on August 23, 2006


dios, seriously. You put yourself out there, hang a target around your neck, and then tsk-tsk anyone when they call you out. Your logic is faulty.

Dios, to split legal hairs, I tried to find original articles, and it's more accurate to link to the most discussed link as opposed to finding a substitute, as that article is the one that frames the debate.

Furthermore, your strawmen (skeptic! attack the source) do not pass muster. Tell me, would the constitution have to yield to state law. Is "protecting the peace" more important than "personal freedoms"?
posted by rzklkng at 8:16 AM on August 23, 2006


I lost what? (I actually won Metafilter. Did you?)
posted by dios at 11:08 AM EST on August 23 [+] [!]


What does that mean "won Metafilter"? I don't get it.
posted by Pastabagel at 8:17 AM on August 23, 2006


I lost what?

the argument and your credibiltity

you have also been out-trolled

here's a link that would be very useful to you in your present situation in this thread

have a nice day ... i'm quite done with you
posted by pyramid termite at 8:17 AM on August 23, 2006


dios writes "Or was it a metaphor that was supposed to represent vacant-headed, facile, political tropes?"


dios, I have a great respect for your knowledge of law. But please don't derail the thread. If you have an opinion on the upside-down flag, or the Marines harassing the guy, or the legality of charging the guy with disorderly conduct, let's hear it. (I for one would enjoy your analysis of the disorderly conduct charge.)

But if you're just going to derail over what was obviously, to you and everyone else, a metaphor, then I can't really defend you against the charge of trolling.
posted by orthogonality at 8:18 AM on August 23, 2006


On the subject of actually flying the flag upside down, come off it people. It's a stupid flag. He has the right to burn it and pee on it. He certainly has the right to fly it upside down.

The most recent attempt to adopt a flag desecration amendment failed in the United States Senate by one vote on June 27, 2006.

It's obviously not that simple.
posted by prostyle at 8:18 AM on August 23, 2006


Tell me, would the constitution have to yield to state law. Is "protecting the peace" more important than "personal freedoms"?
posted by rzklkng at 11:16 AM EST on August 23 [+] [!]


No, I think state law yields to the First Amendment. I think these kinds of laws stick around longer in places like Ioqa than in NY or CA because people tend to be less willing to challenge institutional authority in Iowa. The fact that two people are doing this (the questioning) tells me that the status quo is vulnerable.
posted by Pastabagel at 8:20 AM on August 23, 2006


It's obviously not that simple.
posted by prostyle at 11:18 AM EST on August 23 [+] [!]


Yes, it is. The amendment didn't pass the Republican controlled senate. It wouldn't have been ratified by the states. The amendment was DOA.

I see protests in DC all the time where the flag is burned, paint dumped on it, etc.
posted by Pastabagel at 8:23 AM on August 23, 2006


Pastabagel - here's the details around the "citation" from pyramid termites link:
When Klyn had learned a friend was protesting the government’s treatment of American soldiers in Iraq, he showed his support by following her example: he hung his American flag upside down.

Klyn’s house, situated west of Corydon on Highway 2, gets a lot of traffic. A number of nearby residents didn’t appreciate Klyn’s treatment of the flag and complained to Wayne County Sheriff Keith Davis.

After attempts to convince Klyn to turn his flag back failed, County Attorney Alan Wilson cited Klyn with a simple midemeanor for public disorder.

Under Iowa code section 723.4 subsection 6, “A person commits a simple misdemeanor when the person knowingly and publicly uses the flag of the United States in such a manner as to show disrespect for the flag as a symbol of the United States, with the intent or reasonable expectation that such use will provoke or encourage another to commit a public offense. “

“By citing [Mr. Klyn] for a misdemeanor,” Ben Stone, Executive Director for the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of Iowa says, “they’re saying, ‘we’re gonna use the statute to make this protest punishible by law.’ That, in itself, is totally un-American.”

After learning of Wayne County’s citation of Klyn, the ACLU of Iowa volunteered to represent him in fighting the penalty. According to Stone, the Iowa code violates Klyn’s First Amendment right to free speech.
So please, let's not make wild assumptions about drunkeness and beligerence when it is SO CLEARLY STATED WHY AND WHAT HAPPENNED.
posted by rzklkng at 8:24 AM on August 23, 2006


Pastabagel, all the time? How many times over what time frame? I'm pretty sure that there have been less than 10-times that there were thoughts of charges being filed. How often is "all the time"?
posted by rzklkng at 8:26 AM on August 23, 2006


The Iowa law is clearly unconstitutional, but the County attorney (Alan Wilson, the real villain here) apparently is going to prosecute Mr. Klyn anyway. I think that that is very noteworthy. If this (county attorney) is an elected position in Iowa, I hope the voters will remember that Mr. Wilson decided to violate his sworn duty for the sake of political expediency.
posted by Eyebeams at 8:28 AM on August 23, 2006


Incredibly enough, some of the users in the forum making the threats are active duty Marines, with their names and deployments listed in their profiles. I wonder if Homeland Security and DIA will be investigating them for domestic terrorism?
posted by rzklkng at 8:30 AM on August 23, 2006


speaking of flagging things, here's a few derails for ya.
posted by StrasbourgSecaucus at 8:34 AM on August 23, 2006


rzklkng - I made those comments re drunk or belligerent not as assumptions but as possible facts that would change the outcome. I hadn't read pyramid termite's link when I posted, and it should have been pretty clear from the "pantsless" remark that I wasn't making any assumptions SO RELAX.

Abou the flag, I've seen about 5 protests in DC over the last 6 years, the flag was desecrated in every one (and more than once by different people at some of them). I assumed from seeing it so often that it's a common protest thing.
posted by Pastabagel at 8:37 AM on August 23, 2006


If this (county attorney) is an elected position in Iowa, I hope the voters will remember that Mr. Wilson decided to violate his sworn duty for the sake of political expediency.

I suspect that in rural America he would be re-elected because of it.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 8:38 AM on August 23, 2006


"Freedom of speech is a political prerequisite, and one must realize that it protects other people's ability to criticize you just as it allows you to criticize what you want."

I'm beginning to think Dios is my sock puppet. you go girl!
posted by ZachsMind at 8:45 AM on August 23, 2006


He's much more eloquent with his incessant belligerence. I'd also imagine he wouldn't spring at the opportunity to identify with those forwarding misperceptions, but hey... you never know.
posted by prostyle at 8:53 AM on August 23, 2006


ZenMaster - maybe, but I'm optimistic that a majority of Iowa voters would have more sense.
posted by Eyebeams at 8:53 AM on August 23, 2006


Smart Dalek: Leaves hang from trees stem up; by perhaps some unconscious reasoning, someone must've felt the inversion looked more "natural".

I'm not even sure you're serious here. Do you really believe that was an honest mistake? If so, is that really any better?

If those Marines at the World Series were so bone stupid that they didn't know which way their neighbour's flag flies, they should have at least made the effort to find out, don't you think?

If the RCMP had paraded around with the US flag upside down, what do you think would've happened? If they had then reported that - oh, forget it. Why do I bother?
posted by stinkycheese at 9:01 AM on August 23, 2006


After flipping through some of the threads at that leatherneck.com site, I hope against hope that people realize that not all Marines are like those disgusting animals.
posted by CRM114 at 9:01 AM on August 23, 2006


owhydididoit - "what is up with the flag-loving, anyway? it seems so misguided."

Ask any veteran who has been under fire. Ask any immigrant who has just gained citizenship. Or, you can ask me. The flag represents:

The stripes represent the 13 original colonies.

The 50 stars represent the number of states.

The colors of the flag have meaning as well:
Red symbolizes Hardiness and Valor.
White symbolizes Purity and Innocence.
Blue represents Vigilance, Perseverance and Justice.

It is the embodiment of an ideal that we may look to with pride and hold in sacred honor of those who have gone before us. Yes, it is just a piece of cloth, but that piece of cloth stands to remind us that we have the honor, right and privilege to protect, defend, keep and preserve those ideas and ideals for our children and their children as those who came before us strived to preserve the promise of the sacred covenant upon which this great nation was founded.

To desecrate the flag or dishonor it in protest is to spit in the face of everyone who believes in what it represents and trod upon the grave of everyone who has defended those ideas and ideals with blood. The flag is not the government; the flag is not an administration or particular political point of view. There is nothing wrong with pride in one’s family, culture, heritage, nationality and flag. There is nothing misguided about honor, respect and love for the flag of my forefathers, my brothers under arm, that cloth, the ideals, ideas and covenant it represents.

If that is your idea of misguided, if these words ring hollow for you, I wish you the best, but please feel free not to be my neighbor. I am easy to spot there is a flag flying just outside my door, my license plate says war veteran and there is a volunteer firefighter plate on the front of my car. But if by chance you are my neighbor and find yourself yearning to protest, as is your right, please feel free. But should you choose to do so with dishonor and desecration, as is your choice and should be, please feel reassured that I will gladly, without protest or slightest hesitation or mental reservation, get out of bed at 2 a.m. to open up engine #4’s three inch deck gun to put out the fire of anyone holding that flag while burning.
posted by MapGuy at 9:15 AM on August 23, 2006


Metafilter: Shut up, Dios.
posted by ninjew at 9:20 AM on August 23, 2006 [1 favorite]


I'm sorry, but did you just threaten to kill anyone who burned the flag? Or is this some form of irony or humor with which I'm not familar?
posted by Eyebeams at 9:22 AM on August 23, 2006


I salute MapGuy. Hooooo-ah
posted by winks007 at 9:24 AM on August 23, 2006


engine #4 is presumably a fire truck.
posted by sonofsamiam at 9:25 AM on August 23, 2006


The flag is not the government; the flag is not an administration or particular political point of view

It is the embodiment of an ideal that we may look to with pride and hold in sacred honor of those who have gone before us.


The map is not the territory. Pretty damn eponysterical, really.
posted by prostyle at 9:26 AM on August 23, 2006


Oh - Duh. I guess that's OK then.

Hey - waitasec . . . .
posted by Eyebeams at 9:26 AM on August 23, 2006


mapguy: be nice though, wouldn't it, if people expended half the energy passionately defending the actual practice of the values you undertstand the flag to "symbolize" as they do defending the "symbol" of those values, or am I wrong about that? i rarely hear about self-professed flag-lovers getting as worked up about someone actually betraying the principles of "Hardiness and Valor," "Purity and Innocence," "Vigilance, Perseverance and Justice" as they do about someone screwing around with the symbolic representations of those principles. isn't the reality more important or at least as important as its symbolic representations?
posted by saulgoodman at 9:28 AM on August 23, 2006


I think Dale Klyn has tremendous cojones to display his outrage and moral indignation the way he did, living in Corydon, Iowa. He got ripped off of approximately a quarter of a million dollars by somebody who escaped their financial responsibility to him, weaseling out of their obligation by going bankrupt. He then decided to stand up and express his solidarity for a woman, Terri Jones, whose veteran son couldn't get the medical support he needed and hung himself.

I respect this man for piping up and expressing his anger the way he did. His communication didn't attack any one man or woman personally. He didn't libel or slander anyone, scapegoat anyone. He made a political statement on his own property. The gist of his protest is that a) he didn't like the guy who ripped him off of a substantial amount of money getting away with it with the judge's help and b) he thought a veteran coming back from the war deserved decent medical attention after having risked his life. Klyn was on the side of the soldiers having a right to decent medical treatment. That seems like the protest of a rational, decent human being.

Those who are scapegoating Klyn do not seem rational or decent. It's one thing to criticise him, fair enough to have a difference of opinion but he was treated with contempt by the salesman offering to buy him a ticket out of the country, charged with disorderly conduct (which surprised him, so it would seem to be an unfair charge), arrested and been the topic of death threats by Marines. (Is it legal to post death threats? Or Army accepted behavior of Marines to post death threats on citizens who disagree with their particular ideas?).

The malicious bullying attitude and bad English of the Marines and moderators on that board was both awful and pathetic. I also have respect for Bill Benson of Memphis TN, who spoke up articulately and sanely about Klyn's protest. That took guts on a Marine boad called Leatherneck.

It would seem Klym and Benson communicated their disagreement in a civil, adult and socially meaningful way. Their detractors resorted to bullying, meanness and personal threats of violence. In this scenario Klym and Benson have shown they are better human beings.
posted by nickyskye at 9:29 AM on August 23, 2006 [1 favorite]




MapGuy writes "If that is your idea of misguided, if these words ring hollow for you, I wish you the best, but please feel free not to be my neighbor. I am easy to spot there is a flag flying just outside my door, my license plate says war veteran and there is a volunteer firefighter plate on the front of my car. But if by chance you are my neighbor and find yourself yearning to protest, as is your right, please feel free. But should you choose to do so with dishonor and desecration, as is your choice and should be, please feel reassured that I will gladly, without protest or slightest hesitation or mental reservation, get out of bed at 2 a.m. to open up engine #4’s three inch deck gun to put out the fire of anyone holding that flag while burning."


Why is it that these ringing paeans to patriotism and all that is Holy and Capitalized ("Hardiness and Valor.... Purity and Innocence.... Vigilance, Perseverance and Justice") always seem to end with a "you have the right to protest but I'll respond to your protest with violence"?

Do they think they're proving their depth of belief by their willingness to punch somebody in the face, or are they just trying to intimidate would-be protestors? Why is it that the only way they have to demonstrate their beliefs is violence?
posted by orthogonality at 9:36 AM on August 23, 2006


please feel reassured that I will gladly, without protest or slightest hesitation or mental reservation, get out of bed at 2 a.m. to open up engine #4’s three inch deck gun to put out the fire of anyone holding that flag while burning.

because a garden hose just wouldn't be dramatic enough ... because people, when they want to make a major point by burning an american flag, do it at 2 am in the boondocks instead in a major city where everyone can see it ... because, after all, it costs you nothing to make a statement like that on a web board when you know damn well it won't ever happen
posted by pyramid termite at 9:36 AM on August 23, 2006


I will gladly, without protest or slightest hesitation or mental reservation, get out of bed at 2 a.m. to open up engine #4’s three inch deck gun to put out the fire of anyone holding that flag while burning.

Dude, you're so hot! If I was a lady, I'd given you 50% off the regular price.
posted by c13 at 9:39 AM on August 23, 2006


It's always fun to watch the SMs (or sometimes the BMs, who also ought to know better) screw up and fly the ensign (looks like this) upside down aboard ship, too. Stuff happens. Fix it, drive on.

The screwtops who posted that stuff on the message board are the same sort of idiots you meet all the time here in the blue -- no-loads who wouldn't dare say that kind of thing eyeball-to-eyeball. The Marines are looking for a few good men, which you ain't.

I wish this guy were protesting an actual national emergency or something equally momentous (cough*iraq*cough*wiretapping*cough), not just a personal civil disagreement. But because I value freedom more than cheap jingoism, I salute him anyway in the teeth of all the guff he's taking.

I've thought about having an American flag decal upside-down on my ride, but I figure the paint job would get keyed or the tires slashed by "patriots." Ugh. I'll have to settle for sending a check to the ACLU along with a note of thanks. (Hey, jarheads, remember: They stuck up for Ollie North, too.)
posted by pax digita at 9:40 AM on August 23, 2006


c13: Which days do you give green stamps? :o)
posted by pax digita at 9:40 AM on August 23, 2006


I also suppose that Mapguy, defender of the promise of the sacred covenant upon which this great nation was founded would also have no problem aiming his firehose at those flying the ole' stars and bars, too. After all, what is worse, burning a flag in protest, or proudly flying the flag of a traiterous, anti-American (All men are created equal, see?) faction of criminals whose very existence was precipated by treason and rebellion against the American nation. How about it, Mapguy? Because, if I am to accept that the American flag has a transcendental symbolic virtue which must not be disparaged, then surely you can accept that flying the flag of a nation whose very foundation was aimed at the destruction of America is equally heinous and worthy of a little 400 PSI counter-demonstration. Right?
posted by Chrischris at 9:41 AM on August 23, 2006 [3 favorites]


I with the liberal PC mafia would quit whining about "being sensitive" and hurt feelings. If we worry about stepping on people's toes all the time, soon we won't be able to burn any flags at all!
posted by sonofsamiam at 9:42 AM on August 23, 2006


It is the embodiment of an ideal that we may look to with pride and hold in sacred honor of those who have gone before us.

Yes, the constitution is ... oh, wait, he meant the flag?
posted by ZenMasterThis at 9:42 AM on August 23, 2006


[¡]
posted by Zozo at 9:45 AM on August 23, 2006


overheard at hank's party store on q ave

"that mapguy, i just don't know about him"

"why, what'd he do now?"

"well, last week, when my cat went up a tree and wouldn't come down, i called and called and it wasn't until 5 hours later that he showed up with the crane to get it out"

"that's not exactly an emergency situation, though"

"mmm, i guess ... but when that dale klyn guy over west of corydon put his flag up the pole upside down, mapguy rushed over in 5 minutes, rappelled up the pole lickity-split with his pjs slipping down and put it right side up in 30 seconds"

"my goodness"

"you know, i just don't think that man likes cats"
posted by pyramid termite at 9:50 AM on August 23, 2006 [1 favorite]


we should just make a new flag that looks the same both ways, like the union jack. those colours don't run!!!!
posted by snofoam at 9:53 AM on August 23, 2006 [1 favorite]


Eyebeams to answer your questions, no, yes. Not kill, so much as extinguish with prejudice. Yes, engine four is a fire truck and a 3” or 4” deck gun is the water cannon there upon mounted with which one might exhibit unbridled enthusiasm in extinguishing the misguided Self-Immolating protestor.

Prostyle please feel free to burn your map, ooh new word. By the way, I like arborectalectomy.

Saulgoodman – Well that was the point of what I posted, hence the Gumpesq eponysterical (thanks p-sty) tone. No one gets a free pass on being misguided.

Orthogonality- speaking of eponysterical, one would think above all you would get the idea of snark prose for justice and the American way. After all, we are Americans, garden hose indeed.

Chrischris- yes you are wrong, you wouldn’t be running it at 400 PSI.

Now where did I put that pin?
posted by MapGuy at 9:57 AM on August 23, 2006


I must confess I sleep in the nude and it is true the only thing I hate worse than cats is orthography challenged Self-Immolating eponysterical arborectalectomy nit picking literalists. But I like y'all.
posted by MapGuy at 10:04 AM on August 23, 2006


snofoam: yankee ingenuity. Brilliant.
posted by abulafa at 10:07 AM on August 23, 2006


Wow - another "folksy" glossolalia-ist. Great.
posted by Eyebeams at 10:07 AM on August 23, 2006


Prostyle please feel free to burn your map, ooh new word.

Dense.
Eponysterical.

...you wouldn’t be running it at 400 PSI.


posted by prostyle at 10:08 AM on August 23, 2006


prostyle - now I get it. Thanks.
posted by Eyebeams at 10:11 AM on August 23, 2006


owhydididoit - "what is up with the flag-loving, anyway? it seems so misguided."

MapGuy: Ask any veteran who has been under fire. Ask any immigrant who has just gained citizenship. Or, you can ask me. The flag represents:


As a Veteran who has been under fire I answer " If just a damn Flag, originally a signal for a rally point during the olden days of big open field warfare and a signal as to what side your on, THATS ALL!, Burn it if it helps your message, I Don't really care, I fought to defend the constitution (AS MY OATH SAID) not to protect the damn flag! hell the Damn thing changes everytime we get some new land anyways. I tell you want all the flag worshipper can cherish they own damn copies of the flag okay? I earned to Goddamn right to burn or worship or even EAT mine, and I'll punch the first marine that actually trie to prevent me!

Wow that was fun
posted by Elim at 10:14 AM on August 23, 2006 [1 favorite]


Hey that is just wrong, I don't see a fire. Was he smoking within 10 feet of a building?
posted by MapGuy at 10:15 AM on August 23, 2006


Elim, I agree with you 100% and If you want to stuff it up your balloon knot in protest, I will punch the fist Marine who tries to stop you.
posted by MapGuy at 10:18 AM on August 23, 2006


Oooo, are we punching Marines already? Where's the back of the line?
posted by pax digita at 10:26 AM on August 23, 2006


Flying an American flag upside down sends the message "Help! I'm in distress!"

Putting a stamp upside-down on a letter sends the message "I love you."

Therefore, putting an American flag stamp upside-down on the letter would mean "I love you, but help! I'm in distress!"



I think.
Where's my coffee?
posted by Spatch at 10:28 AM on August 23, 2006


Could it be that the flag represents what the constitution embodies? Mapthingy, anyone, anyone, Stewie?
Sailors to the left, Marines to the right, Army in the middle, Air Force, hold our hats.
posted by MapGuy at 10:30 AM on August 23, 2006


Watch it, Spatch--if MapGuy sees that letter, he'll douse it, but good.
posted by MrMoonPie at 10:30 AM on August 23, 2006


-Watch it, Spatch--if MapGuy sees that letter, he'll douse it, but good.- MrMoonPie

Only if it is on fire being stuffed up a Marines ass.
posted by MapGuy at 10:35 AM on August 23, 2006


America has this funny obsession with pathos and symbols.
posted by uncle harold at 10:38 AM on August 23, 2006


It's strange - I've read only three messageboards in my life (and this one, only occasionally), and this is the second at which I've encountered a guy who spouted incomprehensible right-wing gibberish interspersed with folksy expressions like y'all and references to military jargon.

Is this a staple of MBs or "community blogs"? I'm asking seriously.
posted by Eyebeams at 10:38 AM on August 23, 2006


Could be Mapguy, But the flag only has symbolic power, anyone who holds that OVER the constitution is is either a closet facist (wow my first Godwin, I think) or an idiot, niether a good thing.

Pax Digita, I'll let you cut in line if you want...
posted by Elim at 10:41 AM on August 23, 2006


It's an affectation promoted by Limbaugh and ilk, as if to establish "I'm really really smart, but also folksy and genuine."
posted by MrMoonPie at 10:41 AM on August 23, 2006


Mapguy really likes that Marin'es ass? (just saying, not that there is anything wrong with that)
posted by Elim at 10:42 AM on August 23, 2006


Is this a staple of MBs or "community blogs"? I'm asking seriously.

I think it's a staple of the internet.
posted by uncle harold at 10:44 AM on August 23, 2006


Is this a staple of MBs or "community blogs"? I'm asking seriously.

Well, not so much here, but you should visit some forums associated with manufaturers of something related to military use. A bunch of lower middle class white guys comparing the size of their equipment, making fun of France and posting patriotic emoticons at the end of every sentence.
posted by c13 at 10:50 AM on August 23, 2006


Thanks, c13, but I'll pass.

Back on topic - if it weren't for the ACLU, this poor schmuck would have had to pay a lawyer to get an apparently unconstitutional charge dismissed. I can't help being pissed at that prosecutor.
posted by Eyebeams at 10:54 AM on August 23, 2006


MapGuy writes "But should you choose to do so with dishonor and desecration, as is your choice and should be, please feel reassured that I will gladly, without protest or slightest hesitation or mental reservation, get out of bed at 2 a.m. to open up engine #4’s three inch deck gun to put out the fire of anyone holding that flag while burning."
Hmm. Sounds like a clear-cut threat to me. Isn't that ... oh, I dunno, illegal and not constitutionally protected?
posted by kaemaril at 11:07 AM on August 23, 2006


Map Guy things damaging other peoples property and assault is okay if he is offended.

Frankly, F*ck these kind of, "selective Constutution protection guys" I would say to him, Okay assault that guy asd long as you line up next in front of the spray and HE gets a shot at you.
posted by Elim at 11:11 AM on August 23, 2006


Oh, kaemarll, he's just bullshitting. Like he would ever be allowed to handle his 3in gun at 2am on the night off.
posted by c13 at 11:15 AM on August 23, 2006


I bet he handles his 3 in. gun at 2 a.m. on all his nights off.
posted by Eyebeams at 11:18 AM on August 23, 2006


Well, apparently there are actually several interpretations for what the flag "stands for."^ Which, like Biblical interpretation, is awfully useful for sophistry. If you declare that you stand for the flag, or any other symbol, you're basically declaring that you're standing for whatever socially constructed meaning the flag stands for today. To me, It makes a hell of a lot more sense to stand for inate values than to stand for symbols.

Sophistry pulls the discussion away from inate meanings. (See Dios' pseudo-sarcastic literal interpretations and misdirection. Does that work well with juries?) Why? Because when we talk about basic values, all well-meaning people have pretty much the same ones, they just rank them differently and have different strategies and compromises that they're willing to make and different sets of facts and assumptions to back them up. People who are interested in manipulating the divisions and unions between well-meaning people instead turn to symbols, where you can throw a symbol out there and human confirmation biases start to kick in. Group A and Group B might both fly the flag and feel like they're in union against Group C that sees the flag as a totally different symbol!. To group C, the flag symbolizes injustice. So, everybody is on the same page about justice, but they hate each other because the symbol of the flag is also useful for creating division. In effect, we're speaking two different languages, which makes it much easier to dehumanize the opposition.

Symbols are language. The flag division is no different than the pejorative and non-pejorative definition of "nigger." Or "hacker." Or how the meaning of the word "feminist" was hijacked and yet most everyone still agrees with feminist values. If there's any inate value that separates my values from conservative values in this regard, it's the ideal that language is unyielding versus the idea that language is constantly changing and cannot be controlled.

So, in all seriousness, why do flag-supporters put themselves in a position where they both have to 1) defend their values and 2) defend their language, which just 1 would suffice? And why does it seem to an outsider that 1 is neglected and/or confused in service of 2? How do you know that your flag stands for the same meanings that your neighbor's flag does?
posted by Skwirl at 11:21 AM on August 23, 2006 [2 favorites]


I protest, I am neither really really smart, folksy, genuine, incomprehensible, right wing, a closet fascist, or ass obsessed. But, it is sweet of you to say so, no, really. I do however, say ya'll. It tends to draw out draw out the truth. God forbid we should feel compelled to examine thoughts respectfully and perhaps with a bit of humor. You know enjoy the morphology and semantics of language, engage in meaningful perhaps even thoughtfully provocative dialogue. Naw, Eyebeams, or should I say sugar tits, you so dirty, I pay you extra. Bourgeois feels so much better, lets just call each other names and break out the cannons. Get a sense of humor pecker breath.

I am sure the ACLU will defend my right to put out fire. The chief might be pissed if we used too much water though. It is not like I proposed eating babies when there was a famine. Oh, no wait there is a famine of moral and civic conscience. Break out the babies. Anybody got a box of sugar tits?
posted by MapGuy at 11:21 AM on August 23, 2006


Well, I just wish someone would do something about all this flag desecrating. It's getting so I can't cross the street without having to walk through a pile of burning, upside down flags.

I swear, this is a problem of momentous propertions.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:25 AM on August 23, 2006


It's y'all, damnit.
posted by MrMoonPie at 11:35 AM on August 23, 2006


Or, to my uber-Ozark relatives: you'uns.
posted by sonofsamiam at 11:37 AM on August 23, 2006


All y'all are wrong.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:37 AM on August 23, 2006


I spelled it right.
posted by Eyebeams at 11:38 AM on August 23, 2006


So the truth comes out..
posted by c13 at 11:40 AM on August 23, 2006


Mapguy, he hung HIS flag upsaide down, the ACLU would and should in my eyes defend him,
You on the other hand would have Assaluted him and his property, I don't think they would have a case.
posted by Elim at 11:44 AM on August 23, 2006


Why is it every time I here some one threaten someone with violenceand get called on it, the answer seems to always be related to "Freedom of Speech allows me", or worse "I was joking"

have the balls to either mean it or own up to just admit you were blowing off steam and it was uncalled for... Sheessss
posted by Elim at 11:55 AM on August 23, 2006


Why is it every time I hear someone threaten someone with violence and get called on it, the answer seems to always be related to "Freedom of Speech allows me", or worse "I was joking".
___________________________

Usually followed by a claim that whoever objected is just being a baby.

This may be the meaning of Break out the babies but I'm not sure.
posted by Eyebeams at 12:11 PM on August 23, 2006


Oh, I see now he is on fire.... I put it out.... that is assault... hmmm.... Yeah I suppose the ACLU wouldn’t get behind that one, thanks, wow new words, new concepts….
I wasn't talking about the farmer. I was talking about metaphorically making poor choices on one hand, with desecration as a form of protest on the other and over reaction to both empathize and to get a point across. Have the balls to mean what? It is a form of satire. Yes satire is uncalled for in the face of zealots. It is probably like sunbathing with cannibals (oh shit now I have offended cannibals call the fucking ACLU), and that hose is not running at 400 PSI. Remember as Ze Frank says, "Just be yourself, unless you’re an asshole."
posted by MapGuy at 12:12 PM on August 23, 2006


I recognize some verbs in there, but the paragraph that precedes this one is otherwise very hard to parse.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:18 PM on August 23, 2006 [1 favorite]


Remember as Ze Frank says...

Looks like you failed.
posted by prostyle at 12:21 PM on August 23, 2006


WWZFS
posted by MapGuy at 12:23 PM on August 23, 2006



posted by Armitage Shanks at 12:25 PM on August 23, 2006


All right, that's just a random collection of letters.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:25 PM on August 23, 2006


Oh, I see now he is on fire.... I put it out.... that is assault... hmmm....

HE is on fire? I thought we were talking about burning a flag, not self immolation.
posted by c13 at 12:43 PM on August 23, 2006


The "three inch deck gun" was to be directed at "anyone holding that flag while burning".
Then there's "HE is on fire . . I put IT out"

Clear English is a wonderful thing.
posted by Eyebeams at 12:52 PM on August 23, 2006


I didn't realize we were discussing Thich Quang Duc. By all means, if he's setting himself on fire across the street from you, put him out.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:52 PM on August 23, 2006


I love the Constitution a hell of a lot more than I love the flag.

What the hell is wrong with MapGuy?
posted by EarBucket at 1:00 PM on August 23, 2006


C13, he is clever in reinterpreting his comment. I think we can all bet on him not meaning 'I will put out any person ON fire" in this context, but he is now implying THAT is how we should interpret it.

Mapguy Am I correct in this assumption that you Assumed the person holding the flag was personally on fire?

The only other option is that you would Fire hose a protestor on his own property who is not personally in any danger except for you, the assaulter, for the crime of doing something you just didn't like. That would be un-american and unconstitutional and illegal. and not funny to anyone with a conscience or heart. But that just my opinion.

and I am sure someone burning or flying a flag upsidedown on there own isn't denying you your rights, am I wrong in that too?
posted by Elim at 1:06 PM on August 23, 2006


except for you = except from you -- english is a second language for me and I forgot the first.
posted by Elim at 1:08 PM on August 23, 2006


Elim It would be you who would reinterpret your assumptions. I was creating an allusion for the sake of prevoking thought my meaning remains unchanged, I can hardly be blamed for how you miss take something. It would be absurd to use a deck gun in that way, as much as it would be absurd to eat babies to cure a famine. If you go back and read what I wrote I left it a bit ambiguous as to whether the satirical neighbor protestor was on fire. Being painfully obvious, really, where is the fun in that?

But it should have been clear that I was not talking about the farmer as the protest method was changed and I don’t live in Iowa. Does anyone get subtlety anymore? Should it have read “anyone holding that flag, while burning”? I am not so good with the commas ya’ll. It wouldn’t really make sense to put out a burning flag with a 3” deck gun, besides burning a flag is not illegal unless it requires a permit.

It would be both horrifically funny (in a modest proposal sort of way, babies et al. sugar tits) and tragically hip to respond with a kindness that is both salvation and retribution (getting a cat out of a tree by cutting it down, putting out a protestor with a deck gun etc.).

Perhaps someone can translate the idea of allusion as satire for our literally minded friends whose panties are in a figurative wad. To clarify, I don’t really have war vet plates on my car (but I am one) and I don’t have a fire plate on the front of my car (but I am a fire fighter), I don’t sleep in the nude (well sometimes) and I would never point a 3” deck gun at someone to put out a fire (but it sure as hell makes a good point about over reacting, no.)

I go into burning buildings to save lives and I could give a crap what your affiliations, political, religious, sexual or otherwise are.

EarBucket what’s wrong with mapguy? I thought Lincoln destroyed the constitution to preserve the union, no? Besides how is the constitution different than the flag? Is not one the symbolic embodiment of the other?

But really kids I have to run it has been fun, be nice and do unto others. If my humor offends please try to get a sense of it before assuming the literal when it is so obviously absurd.
posted by MapGuy at 1:51 PM on August 23, 2006


Wow.

It would be hard to pick out the funniest sentence from that Perfect Storm of blarney, but for now I cast my vote for:

I was creating an allusion for the sake of prevoking thought my meaning remains unchanged, I can hardly be blamed for how you miss take something.

Of course, he may not really have meant that. "Literally."
posted by Eyebeams at 2:00 PM on August 23, 2006


It doesn't so much offend as buffle. In a clinical sort of way.
posted by c13 at 2:02 PM on August 23, 2006


The humor, that is...
posted by c13 at 2:03 PM on August 23, 2006


The colors of the flag have meaning as well:
Red symbolizes #FF0000, Pantone® 032C Glovis Red.
White symbolizes #FFFFFF, Pantone® 11-4800 Blanc de Blanc.
Blue represents #0000FF, Pantone® 287C Glovis Blue.

That is all.
posted by nlindstrom at 2:15 PM on August 23, 2006


I thought c3's "buffle" was a typo, but it turns out I learned a new word. Perfect for me, too, considering where I live.
posted by Eyebeams at 2:23 PM on August 23, 2006


Now that is just wrong.
How do you do the little hyperlink thingy?
http://www.wsoctv.com/education/9714479/detail.html
posted by MapGuy at 2:25 PM on August 23, 2006


I'm starting to really like MapGuy.
posted by Astro Zombie at 2:52 PM on August 23, 2006


This is the manliest thread I've ever read.

Is there still time for me to threaten my imagined neighbor, and live out my fantasies of heroism?
posted by knave at 3:02 PM on August 23, 2006


Wow! Thats was the Longest, "yea, you misread me, I should have made it a little clearer. sorry Elim is so stooopid" I have ever read.. And I have read more than a fair share.
posted by Elim at 3:03 PM on August 23, 2006


Like This http://www.wsoctv.com/education/9714479/detail.html
posted by Elim at 3:41 PM on August 23, 2006


Burning stuff in class, never a good Idea unless Science class, But his civics point is being made real well.

"practice your rights in this country get branded a criminal and fired and\or arrested!"
posted by Elim at 3:44 PM on August 23, 2006


From Elim's linked article, a survey:

"Should it be illegal in the United States to burn an American flag?"
69% Yes
31% No

This is the country that's spreading freedom around the world! I hope you're all ready for it.
posted by knave at 4:02 PM on August 23, 2006


Metafilter: How do you do the little hyperlink thingy?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:29 PM on August 23, 2006


Pat Summers, whose daughter was in Holden's class, told The Courier-Journal of Louisville that more than 20 parents showed up at the school Monday, upset over the incident.

"She said, 'Our teacher burned a flag.' I'm like, 'What?"' Summers said.


And us parents were like, totally no way, I mean, hel-lo-o, you know?
posted by Armitage Shanks at 5:19 PM on August 23, 2006


Mapguy: But really kids I have to run it has been fun, be nice and do unto others

Translation: Seriously, you guys, it was fun trolling ya but now I've got to run. I've got to go and post the same thing over on DailyKos so I can point out how those crazy guys are deliberately misinterpreting my cunningly-worded gibberish.
posted by kaemaril at 5:43 PM on August 23, 2006


But really kids I have to run it has been fun, be nice and do unto others. If my humor offends please try to get a sense of it before assuming the literal when it is so obviously absurd.

HARTFORD, CT, Aug 23, 2006 (AP) - After years of rumors, Zippy the Pinhead and Ann Coulter confessed they had a child and named him Mapguy. "My son is a right thinking American," Ann said, "as long as you let him have Sunday breakfast at Big Boy's."

"He's a chip off the old poker table," added Zippy. "He's got my looks and brains and Ann's unwavering patriotism.

"He used to run around the neighborhood in a Smokey the Bear hat to hide the point on his head. It was clear to me that he was going to be a firefighter, especially when he ate 40 pancakes at IHOP with his Smokey the Bear shovel."

Mapguy was not available for comment, but his answering machine said that he was in the township junkyard, assembling a 1/4 size replica of the Statue of Liberty with old car parts and Bondo.
posted by pyramid termite at 9:05 PM on August 23, 2006 [2 favorites]


MapGuy just needs get laid once in a while. The prosecutor who filed this BS charge is a silly sonofabitch who needs to get hit upside the head with a clue-by-four.
posted by pax digita at 3:12 AM on August 24, 2006


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