911 redux: would you watch?
August 25, 2006 3:32 PM Subscribe
On Sept. 11, CNN will replay its coverage from 2001 in real time, online. They will make their little-noticed Pipeline service free for the day.
Including the falling bodies? No thanks. Nostalgia only goes so far.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 3:36 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by Ogre Lawless at 3:36 PM on August 25, 2006
bet they stuff a bunch of ads in there this time around.
posted by jimjam at 3:42 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by jimjam at 3:42 PM on August 25, 2006
Are we going to get a participation script?
posted by randomination at 3:42 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by randomination at 3:42 PM on August 25, 2006
I'd pay money not to see that.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 3:43 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 3:43 PM on August 25, 2006
For those of us who didn't see this the first time around, please don't ruin the ending.
posted by milnak at 3:43 PM on August 25, 2006 [2 favorites]
posted by milnak at 3:43 PM on August 25, 2006 [2 favorites]
I wouldn't watch, and I'll be sure to assiduously avoid Pipeline as well.
posted by owhydididoit at 3:44 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by owhydididoit at 3:44 PM on August 25, 2006
I'll catch the coverage of the replay of the coverage on The Daily Show.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 3:45 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by ZenMasterThis at 3:45 PM on August 25, 2006
jimjam -- the whole thing is an ad, for Pipeline.
posted by owhydididoit at 3:45 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by owhydididoit at 3:45 PM on August 25, 2006
I'm curious as to why they'd do something like.... this.
posted by drstein at 3:46 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by drstein at 3:46 PM on August 25, 2006
Are they going to edit out Aaron Brown and replace him with Anderson Cooper?
posted by eyeballkid at 3:47 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by eyeballkid at 3:47 PM on August 25, 2006
I did not own a television at that time. I did not see any of the coverage that day. I didn't even see a video of a plane hitting the tower until a week or more later. I would be very interested in seeing this. It seems like an interesting way to actually see how many people actually experienced the events of that day (watching on television), and I haven't seen it before.
posted by flarbuse at 3:49 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by flarbuse at 3:49 PM on August 25, 2006
Will CNN also give us back all of the hours of airtime they have wasted pumping up the general climate of fear and loathing in the last five years? I'm not holding my breath.
posted by blucevalo at 3:56 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by blucevalo at 3:56 PM on August 25, 2006
Wonder if they will edit out the numerous reports about bombs and explosions that went out live before the official script was decided upon.
posted by fire&wings at 3:56 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by fire&wings at 3:56 PM on August 25, 2006
9/11 porn.
posted by brain_drain at 3:56 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by brain_drain at 3:56 PM on August 25, 2006
I really can't get the idea out of my head that this whole thing is nothing more than a glorified way to get people to subscribe to CNN Pipeline.
posted by Sandor Clegane at 4:01 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by Sandor Clegane at 4:01 PM on August 25, 2006
If you're a Mac user, you get to learn a new word, "instrucations."
https://account.cnn.com/storefront/macbook.jsp
posted by zzztimbo at 4:09 PM on August 25, 2006
https://account.cnn.com/storefront/macbook.jsp
posted by zzztimbo at 4:09 PM on August 25, 2006
I also don't have TV, so the only coverage I saw at the time was print media. So many people talk of the images burned into their heads, I never saw them.
So me and flarbuse, that makes... two viewers, total.
posted by -harlequin- at 4:11 PM on August 25, 2006
So me and flarbuse, that makes... two viewers, total.
posted by -harlequin- at 4:11 PM on August 25, 2006
Yes! This is great!
Oh shit, I'm not on Michael Savage's message board...
posted by j-urb at 4:11 PM on August 25, 2006
Oh shit, I'm not on Michael Savage's message board...
posted by j-urb at 4:11 PM on August 25, 2006
Maybe Osama bin Laden will release another message, and George W. Bush won't give a shit.
Just like August 2001.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 4:16 PM on August 25, 2006
Just like August 2001.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 4:16 PM on August 25, 2006
Uh. Didn't Freud have something to say about the reenactment of national trauma through repetition? Or something?
posted by jokeefe at 4:18 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by jokeefe at 4:18 PM on August 25, 2006
Agony makes me feel so wonderful. I'm going to wander the streets of Manhattan, and just cry. And cry. Someone will photograph me, and I will live forever.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 4:22 PM on August 25, 2006 [2 favorites]
posted by The Jesse Helms at 4:22 PM on August 25, 2006 [2 favorites]
We should totally do the same thing!
Yes, let's!
washington mall fire, supposedly a plane crash into the pentagon...
why am i getting the feeling that we're in a movie that's telling the end of this country...?
posted by mabelcolby at 6:50 AM PST on September 11 [+] [!]
This is going to be a big turning point in the history and character of this country, I think.
posted by Doug at 6:51 AM PST on September 11 [+] [!]
my greatest fear is how our government is going to respond. more erosion of freedom in the name of security. mark my words.
posted by rebeccablood at 10:10 AM PST on September 11 [+ 1] [!]
posted by jokeefe at 4:27 PM on August 25, 2006
Yes, let's!
washington mall fire, supposedly a plane crash into the pentagon...
why am i getting the feeling that we're in a movie that's telling the end of this country...?
posted by mabelcolby at 6:50 AM PST on September 11 [+] [!]
This is going to be a big turning point in the history and character of this country, I think.
posted by Doug at 6:51 AM PST on September 11 [+] [!]
my greatest fear is how our government is going to respond. more erosion of freedom in the name of security. mark my words.
posted by rebeccablood at 10:10 AM PST on September 11 [+ 1] [!]
posted by jokeefe at 4:27 PM on August 25, 2006
As a UKer, and someone who's very interested in journalism and 9/11 in general, I'd be sure to watch this, and I've been waiting for the BBC to do something similar with its stored footage for quite some time.
posted by paperpete at 4:27 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by paperpete at 4:27 PM on August 25, 2006
While I do think this would be a MUCH better idea for 2021 or 2051, I have to admit that I'll watch what I can. I was camping that morning and was informed of the event by a hunter. Luckily we were within cell phone range to confirm that he wasn't just some racist with a gun. Strange as it sounds, I feel like I missed something the rest of America got. Maybe I should be happy about missing it, but alas I still feel like I missed something. While this will not be the same, and while this will not be fun, it will be interesting for me.
posted by pwb503 at 4:30 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by pwb503 at 4:30 PM on August 25, 2006
Oh, and this is worth revisting too, again from rebeccablood, who spoke the truth that day, even though it angered some:
don't you see that this is a turning point?
- we go on as we have and this kind of thing continues
- we implement some form of police state in order to protect ourselves, thus ensuring our material wealth, but completely renouncing the freedoms that supposedly define us a a nation
- we completely rethink the way we operate in the world in order to make ourselves a less hated entity.
it's going to be one or two. and sure I'm concerned for the next 30,000. but if we give up our civil liberties in response to this, they've won. we lose everything that ever mattered about this country.
posted by rebeccablood at 11:13 AM PST on September 11 [+] [!]
posted by jokeefe at 4:31 PM on August 25, 2006 [4 favorites]
don't you see that this is a turning point?
- we go on as we have and this kind of thing continues
- we implement some form of police state in order to protect ourselves, thus ensuring our material wealth, but completely renouncing the freedoms that supposedly define us a a nation
- we completely rethink the way we operate in the world in order to make ourselves a less hated entity.
it's going to be one or two. and sure I'm concerned for the next 30,000. but if we give up our civil liberties in response to this, they've won. we lose everything that ever mattered about this country.
posted by rebeccablood at 11:13 AM PST on September 11 [+] [!]
posted by jokeefe at 4:31 PM on August 25, 2006 [4 favorites]
Because obviously we've forgotten.
I'll catch the coverage of the replay of the coverage on The Daily Show.
That's better than catching the coverage of CNN "reporters" discussing the discussion of the coverage on the blogosphere.
posted by blendor at 4:36 PM on August 25, 2006
I'll catch the coverage of the replay of the coverage on The Daily Show.
That's better than catching the coverage of CNN "reporters" discussing the discussion of the coverage on the blogosphere.
posted by blendor at 4:36 PM on August 25, 2006
Oh crap, maybe they'll discuss that very post I just posted. I think all media might meta-implode.
posted by blendor at 4:37 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by blendor at 4:37 PM on August 25, 2006
WHY?
posted by Hypnic jerk at 4:52 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by Hypnic jerk at 4:52 PM on August 25, 2006
They should play the news coverage from 9/10. Simpler times.
posted by TwelveTwo at 5:06 PM on August 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by TwelveTwo at 5:06 PM on August 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
And so the anniversary posturing begins. This CNN thing in particular isn't bad, but it's going to get really, really, really crass out there for the next few weeks in both media and politics.
posted by George_Spiggott at 5:07 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by George_Spiggott at 5:07 PM on August 25, 2006
rebeccablood--and jokeefe: Thank you.
I ranted on an earlier post a while back that this was essentially what the "message" was in the Captain America comics following Sept. 11th, but it's nice to find someone else I can quote who won't make me look like... uh... like a comic book geek... :)
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:10 PM on August 25, 2006
I ranted on an earlier post a while back that this was essentially what the "message" was in the Captain America comics following Sept. 11th, but it's nice to find someone else I can quote who won't make me look like... uh... like a comic book geek... :)
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:10 PM on August 25, 2006
NEW YORK - CNN will mark the fifth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks by casting aside all pretenses that they don't exist as a pawn of the government meant to keep people in constant state of fear.
There, fixed.
note: I don't believe that literally. The spirit of it though...*sigh*
posted by Stunt at 5:14 PM on August 25, 2006
There, fixed.
note: I don't believe that literally. The spirit of it though...*sigh*
posted by Stunt at 5:14 PM on August 25, 2006
If they play it backwards we can forget the whole thing ever happened.
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:15 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:15 PM on August 25, 2006
And what is NYC going to do for the fifth anniversary?
posted by five fresh fish at 5:23 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by five fresh fish at 5:23 PM on August 25, 2006
Fucking idiots.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:28 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:28 PM on August 25, 2006
owhydididoit: the whole thing is an ad, for Pipeline.
Yeah, and frankly, that makes it even worse.
posted by PsychoKick at 5:33 PM on August 25, 2006
Yeah, and frankly, that makes it even worse.
posted by PsychoKick at 5:33 PM on August 25, 2006
For those of us who didn't see this the first time around, please don't ruin the ending.*** SPOILER ALERT ***
It is the butler with the candlestick in the second tower.
posted by nlindstrom at 5:35 PM on August 25, 2006
I'll wait for the box DVD set with all the bonus features: a Jumpers slideshow set to an emotional Elton John arrangement of the popular Van Halen tune, Jump; a copy of My Pet Goat that you can view in split screen while the tragedy replays; the 911 calls overdubbed and synchronized with the action; and much, much more!
sorry
posted by effwerd at 5:39 PM on August 25, 2006
sorry
posted by effwerd at 5:39 PM on August 25, 2006
At least we'll get to see Aaron Brown's (brief) starmaking moment. Next week even before the 9/11 stuff, we'll get to see Anderson Cooper's starmaking moment during the Katrina anniversary--ugh and ugh.
And for both, real news will be ignored as usual.
posted by amberglow at 5:41 PM on August 25, 2006
And for both, real news will be ignored as usual.
posted by amberglow at 5:41 PM on August 25, 2006
How much did Karl Rove pay for this?
posted by orthogonality at 5:42 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by orthogonality at 5:42 PM on August 25, 2006
No thanks, that's a 3k person snuff film. How shameless. I, for one, will commemorate by going through the day like an American unafraid. And I'll probably listen to Howard Stern's 9/11 show, which was better than any of the networks, and switch back and forth from the MeFi and Fark threads from that day.
posted by rzklkng at 5:44 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by rzklkng at 5:44 PM on August 25, 2006
They should play the news coverage from 9/10. Simpler times.
It'd probably be 24 hours of Gary Condit.
posted by the_bone at 5:44 PM on August 25, 2006
It'd probably be 24 hours of Gary Condit.
posted by the_bone at 5:44 PM on August 25, 2006
CNN luuuuurves them some 9/11 porn.
Did you catch the SPECIAL EXCLUSIVE GROUNDBREAKING REPORT last week on this guy named Osama bin Laden? Supposedly he's our enemy and stuff.
Funny, I never hear our President talk about him. But if his raggedy ass is in Baghdad right now he's toast! God bless America.
posted by sacre_bleu at 5:53 PM on August 25, 2006
Did you catch the SPECIAL EXCLUSIVE GROUNDBREAKING REPORT last week on this guy named Osama bin Laden? Supposedly he's our enemy and stuff.
Funny, I never hear our President talk about him. But if his raggedy ass is in Baghdad right now he's toast! God bless America.
posted by sacre_bleu at 5:53 PM on August 25, 2006
It'd probably be 24 hours of Gary Condit.
And shark attacks. Remember how scaried we were supposed to be of sharks?
posted by bob sarabia at 6:03 PM on August 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
And shark attacks. Remember how scaried we were supposed to be of sharks?
posted by bob sarabia at 6:03 PM on August 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
I wonder if they'll rerun all these too? I doubt it. ... After September the 11th we learned a hard lesson and a cold lesson, ... The world changed on September the 11th, 2001. ...And the threat exists because a leader there not only has denied and deceived the world about whether or not he's got weapons of mass destruction, but this is a guy who's used weapons of mass destruction. ..."He's had contacts with al Qaeda." ... "This is a person who has had contacts with al Qaeda." ... particularly on what happened on September the 11th. ... And that's why I started the debate on Iraq. You see, I view the man as a serious threat to America and our friends and allies. (Applause.) He's a man who has told the world he wouldn't have weapons of mass destruction, yet he does. We know a while ago that he was close to having a nuclear weapon. We have no idea today how close he is. If he has a nuclear weapon, it's a serious problem for America and our friends and allies. We know he's got chemical weapons. ... 9/11 ..."We know that he has had contacts with terrorist networks like al Qaeda." ...9/11 ... "This is a man who has got connections with al Qaeda." ...
posted by amberglow at 6:05 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by amberglow at 6:05 PM on August 25, 2006
I'm at the WTC every day, so thanks but I'll pass on the not-so-instant replay.
posted by blaneyphoto at 6:18 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by blaneyphoto at 6:18 PM on August 25, 2006
I wonder if anything done this year could top the rousing worldwide success of last year's Karen Hughes 9/11 Anniversary Image Campaign (and it's funny you don't see her anywhere anymore, no?)
posted by amberglow at 6:23 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by amberglow at 6:23 PM on August 25, 2006
Why don't they just hijack some planes and do a reunion tour?
posted by Orange Goblin at 6:26 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by Orange Goblin at 6:26 PM on August 25, 2006
oh, a little pre-anniversary warmup each day for us: Have you noticed that there are at least one or two terror stories each day now, in the news?
posted by amberglow at 6:41 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by amberglow at 6:41 PM on August 25, 2006
The game link posted above reminds me of the only humorous anecdote, perhaps apocryphal, from the day.
A guy, a Tower employee, is busy at his girlfriend's apartment that morning when he's supposed to be at work. He gets a panicked cell phone call from his wife. Unaware of what's happening and what she can plainly see on TV, he assures her he's fine and asks why she's upset.
I'm sure many can tell this story better than I can but at the time, the story provided a lot of relief as it spread around New York.
I remember being affected by the music CNN and other stations were playing but I'll be damned if I can remember what any of it was. That's before they got on their terror-feeding drumming noise.
posted by etaoin at 6:49 PM on August 25, 2006
groundhog day, of sorts. Will stronger minds prevail?
posted by threadbare at 6:54 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by threadbare at 6:54 PM on August 25, 2006
Seems interesting to me. Go back, see how things were reported differently, interpreted differently. With anything you think you remember, when you go back and check, you'll find out that things are subtly (and sometimes unsubtly) different.
posted by Bugbread at 7:09 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by Bugbread at 7:09 PM on August 25, 2006
Seems interesting to me. Go back, see how things were reported differently, interpreted differently. With anything you think you remember, when you go back and check, you'll find out that things are subtly (and sometimes unsubtly) different.
Don't get all nuanced on us. This is clearly an attempt by Karl Rove to spread FEAR by propagating DISASTER PORN!
posted by transona5 at 7:18 PM on August 25, 2006
Don't get all nuanced on us. This is clearly an attempt by Karl Rove to spread FEAR by propagating DISASTER PORN!
posted by transona5 at 7:18 PM on August 25, 2006
Oh spiffy! Can we go donate blood again? Those cookies were tasty.
posted by c13 at 7:29 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by c13 at 7:29 PM on August 25, 2006
It was bad enough hearing the Sept. 11 NPR/WNYC feed from that day.
Since I woke up at 2pm on that day, I did need some kind of real-time reportage, an unexpurgated record of the pure chaos down there. I listened to (I believe) Scott Simon sounding lost in between the 'official' NPR news flashes, which weren't much more coherent.
I listened to those 102 minutes, and probably more, sometime in 2002. And it was enough. It still is. I'm not going to make any comment on the nature of television here; that's for some other battle I don't even want to fight. I'd expect that at least for the first 30 minutes it (um, CNN) was as completely befuddled as the radio jocks (who were, I believe, watching TV to help them report). But image supposedly helps us make sense of situations, so I'm sure those of you who had to watch have a good grasp on what happened; in the same way that current images from Lebanon make 'sense'.
Hold on to your love. Nobody can pass a valid judgement on your decision to watch or not watch the tape of that day; nor of the many deadly days after, which I doubt they will show in any case.
posted by attackthetaxi at 7:38 PM on August 25, 2006
Since I woke up at 2pm on that day, I did need some kind of real-time reportage, an unexpurgated record of the pure chaos down there. I listened to (I believe) Scott Simon sounding lost in between the 'official' NPR news flashes, which weren't much more coherent.
I listened to those 102 minutes, and probably more, sometime in 2002. And it was enough. It still is. I'm not going to make any comment on the nature of television here; that's for some other battle I don't even want to fight. I'd expect that at least for the first 30 minutes it (um, CNN) was as completely befuddled as the radio jocks (who were, I believe, watching TV to help them report). But image supposedly helps us make sense of situations, so I'm sure those of you who had to watch have a good grasp on what happened; in the same way that current images from Lebanon make 'sense'.
Hold on to your love. Nobody can pass a valid judgement on your decision to watch or not watch the tape of that day; nor of the many deadly days after, which I doubt they will show in any case.
posted by attackthetaxi at 7:38 PM on August 25, 2006
Once was enough, thank you. No, I haven't forgotten what it was like to watch the first time. No, I don't need to watch a second. Bad idea. Wait fifty years - then I might watch a few minutes. But not now. Much too soon.
posted by trii at 7:45 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by trii at 7:45 PM on August 25, 2006
I remember being affected by the music CNN and other stations were playing but I'll be damned if I can remember what any of it was. That's before they got on their terror-feeding drumming noise.
I really, really hate that drumming noise they use now.
posted by homunculus at 7:50 PM on August 25, 2006
I really, really hate that drumming noise they use now.
posted by homunculus at 7:50 PM on August 25, 2006
I forget which, but some network did this in 1988 on the 25th anniversary of JFK's assassination -- something like 6-8 hours of the coverage over that weekend, starting with "we interrupt this program...", through the Oswald killing, on to the funeral procession up Pennsylvania Ave. It was interesting as hell (I actually grabbed a lot of it on VHS), but it was 25 years later, and I was 2 when it happened, so there was distance there.
This feels too soon for this kind of treatment. What are we doing 20 years from now? Packing a picnic lunch and going to see WTC reenactors?
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 8:00 PM on August 25, 2006
This feels too soon for this kind of treatment. What are we doing 20 years from now? Packing a picnic lunch and going to see WTC reenactors?
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 8:00 PM on August 25, 2006
if al gore was president, 9/11 would never have happened.
posted by obeygiant at 8:14 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by obeygiant at 8:14 PM on August 25, 2006
Good God, I don't even want to see the commercials for this coverage. I hereby declare 9/11 2006 a TV-free day.
posted by Soliloquy at 8:36 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by Soliloquy at 8:36 PM on August 25, 2006
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST YOU ASSHOLES! LET IT GO!
goddamncnnpieceofshitmockeryofarealnewschannel
posted by graventy at 8:44 PM on August 25, 2006
goddamncnnpieceofshitmockeryofarealnewschannel
posted by graventy at 8:44 PM on August 25, 2006
Anniversary crap -- like other pre-planned "events" such as the lighting of the national xmas tree, the super bowl, presidential conventions, etc. -- is super easy for news organizations, and that is very appealing during the last weeks of summer when nobody wants to work. And starved of their regular worthless flow of non-news from Congress, editors even call this time of year "silly season" because they're reduced to a bunch of goofy stories about crop circles, ufos, etc.
Of course, you could point out that most Americans don't get a month off work, and that real news happens every day (Iraq? Oaxaca?), but that doesn't change the fact that Mass Media News is a factory, and when one part goes offline, the factory sorta comes to a semi-standstill.
Nonetheless, the 9/11 porn is extra disgusting. But I do like how it's mostly a flop. The WTC movie? Just more crap on a plane. The Slate 9/11 Jack Chick tract? So pathetic that I doubt even Slate's editors (and Slate is a Washington Post outfit these days) actually looked at it all.
CNN Pipeline is worthless. (I actually did a free trial this week, because I shut off the Dish Network and wanted to see if it was possible to get the CNN online for when the next outrage happens.) I just wanted a straight live feed of CNN, maybe even a CNN International feed ... just in case. No such luck. There are four "feeds" and none of them appeared to be what was playing live for the Home Viewer.
fire&wings said: Wonder if they will edit out the numerous reports about bombs and explosions that went out live before the official script was decided upon.
Yeah, I wonder that too ... maybe I'll watch a little, just to see.
posted by kenlayne at 9:05 PM on August 25, 2006
Of course, you could point out that most Americans don't get a month off work, and that real news happens every day (Iraq? Oaxaca?), but that doesn't change the fact that Mass Media News is a factory, and when one part goes offline, the factory sorta comes to a semi-standstill.
Nonetheless, the 9/11 porn is extra disgusting. But I do like how it's mostly a flop. The WTC movie? Just more crap on a plane. The Slate 9/11 Jack Chick tract? So pathetic that I doubt even Slate's editors (and Slate is a Washington Post outfit these days) actually looked at it all.
CNN Pipeline is worthless. (I actually did a free trial this week, because I shut off the Dish Network and wanted to see if it was possible to get the CNN online for when the next outrage happens.) I just wanted a straight live feed of CNN, maybe even a CNN International feed ... just in case. No such luck. There are four "feeds" and none of them appeared to be what was playing live for the Home Viewer.
fire&wings said: Wonder if they will edit out the numerous reports about bombs and explosions that went out live before the official script was decided upon.
Yeah, I wonder that too ... maybe I'll watch a little, just to see.
posted by kenlayne at 9:05 PM on August 25, 2006
No, no, no. I did turn on TV late on that day (I only watch the Olympics and hockey), and I don't need to see it again. Nor do I need to reminded that the talking heads and politicians aren't any more effective today than they were on that day, but they look better on the surface.
Catch the guilty, try them fairly, punish them, move on. Not make a profit, manipulate the public, then make more money.
posted by QIbHom at 9:12 PM on August 25, 2006
Catch the guilty, try them fairly, punish them, move on. Not make a profit, manipulate the public, then make more money.
posted by QIbHom at 9:12 PM on August 25, 2006
America reminds me of that kid in gym class who got pantsed, and he now peeks around every corner, tightly gripping the pockets of his jeans so it never ever happens again. And the rest of us just laugh and laugh.
My work here is done.
posted by Osama bin Laden at 9:56 PM on August 25, 2006
My work here is done.
posted by Osama bin Laden at 9:56 PM on August 25, 2006
On the flip side, at least CNN & their Pipeline folks are being helpful to Mac users. A rare site for news sites these days.
posted by drstein at 10:01 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by drstein at 10:01 PM on August 25, 2006
My work here is done.
posted by Osama bin Laden
Oh, what does that mean?
posted by taosbat at 10:25 PM on August 25, 2006
posted by Osama bin Laden
Oh, what does that mean?
posted by taosbat at 10:25 PM on August 25, 2006
Indeed, Osama. There were precious few in late 2001 who realized how insecure we are as nation, though immensely powerful at that time. We could have eventually shrugged it off as a nation simply by doing nothing (openly).
Living well and in peace would've been the best revenge as a front for a massive covert effort to hunt down and dismantle your 'network'.
It was the insecurity at the highest levels of government that has brought us nothing but pain.
I doubt watching the CNN replay is going to convince anyone that our initial 'wounded animal' response was the correct one. The nation suffered nothing even approaching a scratch structurally. It was our egos that were bruised and goddamn it, somebody had to pay.
rebeccablood, courtesy of JoKeefe, was right on target from the start. It is altogether too easy to destroy, and far more difficult to muster a positive response (rebuilding). 5 years later, no memorial, and a hole in the ground, still.
None of this is meant as a 'I told you so.' I wasn't even here to comment back then, and the event broke fragments of memory into near dust. The only thing I remember clearly is my first job down to Battery Park City post 9/11. The rest is just worthless bullshit.
posted by attackthetaxi at 10:30 PM on August 25, 2006
Living well and in peace would've been the best revenge as a front for a massive covert effort to hunt down and dismantle your 'network'.
It was the insecurity at the highest levels of government that has brought us nothing but pain.
I doubt watching the CNN replay is going to convince anyone that our initial 'wounded animal' response was the correct one. The nation suffered nothing even approaching a scratch structurally. It was our egos that were bruised and goddamn it, somebody had to pay.
rebeccablood, courtesy of JoKeefe, was right on target from the start. It is altogether too easy to destroy, and far more difficult to muster a positive response (rebuilding). 5 years later, no memorial, and a hole in the ground, still.
None of this is meant as a 'I told you so.' I wasn't even here to comment back then, and the event broke fragments of memory into near dust. The only thing I remember clearly is my first job down to Battery Park City post 9/11. The rest is just worthless bullshit.
posted by attackthetaxi at 10:30 PM on August 25, 2006
I don't need to attack America again. You're like an agitated gopher, frantically poking your head in and out of your hole anytime someone whispers, "Boo!"; you're doing such a good job terrorizing yourselves and each other, I needn't do anything except drop a hint now and then (Psst! We're gonna do something with liquids!), and then watch and laugh as you raise the terror alert levels, dismantle your civil liberties, and elect delightfully predictable war profiteers who promise the unwinnable wars they wage in your name are for security, freedom, and Jesus.
Every time your president mentions, "The enemies of freedom," I laugh, because he's talking about himself.
posted by Osama bin Laden at 10:48 PM on August 25, 2006
Every time your president mentions, "The enemies of freedom," I laugh, because he's talking about himself.
posted by Osama bin Laden at 10:48 PM on August 25, 2006
If your work here was really done, you wouldn't have to pound the keyboard with a rehash of your first (valid) point, even as effectively worded as the second missive is here. I can already see you will not be able to restrain yourself, and that is a weakness we all can exploit.
Or ignore. Pro trolls have always been irrelevant to the conversation, because they operate under the assumption that they are far more intelligent than the other conversants. That places you outside, looking in, begging for attention, a slave to your need for a response. Much like the real Osama bin Laden, come to think of it.
Well, you can take this as my last response to you. You are not more intelligent than us, on balance. But keep talking if you must; entertainment is lacking on IRC these days.
posted by attackthetaxi at 11:30 PM on August 25, 2006
Or ignore. Pro trolls have always been irrelevant to the conversation, because they operate under the assumption that they are far more intelligent than the other conversants. That places you outside, looking in, begging for attention, a slave to your need for a response. Much like the real Osama bin Laden, come to think of it.
Well, you can take this as my last response to you. You are not more intelligent than us, on balance. But keep talking if you must; entertainment is lacking on IRC these days.
posted by attackthetaxi at 11:30 PM on August 25, 2006
Ah, I understand your confusion. "My work here is done" was not in reference to MetaFilter, it was in reference to attacking America, which is to say I needn't bother, since you're doing my job for me, which was my goal all along. Hope that clears things up.
posted by Osama bin Laden at 12:11 AM on August 26, 2006
posted by Osama bin Laden at 12:11 AM on August 26, 2006
I've discussed this before, and won't go into those stories again, but a few that I left out the first time around:
When I got in touch with my brother in Dallas that morning, cops were hopping over his fences (literally at the same time) looking for suspects in Dallas bombing that hadn't actually occured.
My friend Zeke was at one of the only bars in the financial district that was open that night. Just before Bush gave his address, a ladder of firefighters walked in, carrying their equipment, as their truck had been demolished. The whole bar remained deathly silent as Bush gave his speech (from where I was, in the east village, I could've sworn I saw him smirking) and then the firefighters filed out. As one, ther rest of the bar patrons stood up and applauded the ladder, who simply nodded graciously and left.
Nothing CNN can do will make those events make any more sense. They won't recreate that day in any sort of context. They won't do anything that helps the victims families, or helps us come out from under the bed and stop living like we're going to die if we don't just keep consuming what Bush tells us to.
This is just CNN masturbating for dollars. And FWIW, they repeated the first day's programming every day for the subsequent two weeks. I don't need to see it again. It was meaningless the first fourteen times.
On another tack, kenlayne, Molly Ivens has written on how important it is for young journalists to never take a vacation in August, as invariably the craziest shit will happen in that long, hot month, and the editors are all in Montauk and can't take the credit for the story.
posted by Navelgazer at 12:13 AM on August 26, 2006
When I got in touch with my brother in Dallas that morning, cops were hopping over his fences (literally at the same time) looking for suspects in Dallas bombing that hadn't actually occured.
My friend Zeke was at one of the only bars in the financial district that was open that night. Just before Bush gave his address, a ladder of firefighters walked in, carrying their equipment, as their truck had been demolished. The whole bar remained deathly silent as Bush gave his speech (from where I was, in the east village, I could've sworn I saw him smirking) and then the firefighters filed out. As one, ther rest of the bar patrons stood up and applauded the ladder, who simply nodded graciously and left.
Nothing CNN can do will make those events make any more sense. They won't recreate that day in any sort of context. They won't do anything that helps the victims families, or helps us come out from under the bed and stop living like we're going to die if we don't just keep consuming what Bush tells us to.
This is just CNN masturbating for dollars. And FWIW, they repeated the first day's programming every day for the subsequent two weeks. I don't need to see it again. It was meaningless the first fourteen times.
On another tack, kenlayne, Molly Ivens has written on how important it is for young journalists to never take a vacation in August, as invariably the craziest shit will happen in that long, hot month, and the editors are all in Montauk and can't take the credit for the story.
posted by Navelgazer at 12:13 AM on August 26, 2006
I won't be watching because I will be busy re-enacting the Battle of Plattsburg in my bath.
posted by Joeforking at 1:26 AM on August 26, 2006
posted by Joeforking at 1:26 AM on August 26, 2006
Anyone else think that somewhere there's an FBI agent trying to track down the offline identity of the Osama Bin Laden account?
posted by fullerine at 3:51 AM on August 26, 2006
posted by fullerine at 3:51 AM on August 26, 2006
This is called wallowing in your own self pity (as well as "shameless exploitation of a tragic event to gain market share").
posted by moonbiter at 4:24 AM on August 26, 2006
posted by moonbiter at 4:24 AM on August 26, 2006
Wow. Lots of vehemence.
I actually want to watch this, I just don't know if I'm ready to yet. I'm always interested in seeing how news was covered as it was breaking - I would love to have seen that JFK footage, for example, and somewhere I have mp3s of the first Pearl Harbour bulletins and Ed Murrow's WWII dispatches - but since I can't even read Mefi's 911 thread without getting upset, I dunno if I can watch this yet. I think trashing CNN for putting it on the web is a little unfair though. It is history after all.
Ages ago, someone posted a website that had videos of the real time coverage from various stations around the world (I remember one of the BBC announcers wasn't watching her own feed and failed to notice the second plane and fire for a very long time) but I can't find it again. Anyone know where it is?
posted by CunningLinguist at 4:53 AM on August 26, 2006
I actually want to watch this, I just don't know if I'm ready to yet. I'm always interested in seeing how news was covered as it was breaking - I would love to have seen that JFK footage, for example, and somewhere I have mp3s of the first Pearl Harbour bulletins and Ed Murrow's WWII dispatches - but since I can't even read Mefi's 911 thread without getting upset, I dunno if I can watch this yet. I think trashing CNN for putting it on the web is a little unfair though. It is history after all.
Ages ago, someone posted a website that had videos of the real time coverage from various stations around the world (I remember one of the BBC announcers wasn't watching her own feed and failed to notice the second plane and fire for a very long time) but I can't find it again. Anyone know where it is?
posted by CunningLinguist at 4:53 AM on August 26, 2006
It'd probably be 24 hours of Gary Condit.
Don't forget Aaliyah. Have you forgotten? Oh, the humanity!
There was a time in the aftermath of 9/11 where everyone was convinced that no one would ever be bothered to care about such trifle as celebrity news again. Man, were we motherfucking wrong.
posted by Hypnic jerk at 5:03 AM on August 26, 2006
Don't forget Aaliyah. Have you forgotten? Oh, the humanity!
There was a time in the aftermath of 9/11 where everyone was convinced that no one would ever be bothered to care about such trifle as celebrity news again. Man, were we motherfucking wrong.
posted by Hypnic jerk at 5:03 AM on August 26, 2006
A curious thing to see is the "outraged" or "pissed" atmosphere of this thread (so far), kind-of parallels the 9/11 thread but without the shock, obviously. I get why some people don't want this continuos reenactment and we probably have good reasons behind this refusal, but practice tells me that the more we tell ourselves (and others) NOT to see something as that would be otrageous and the more we tell others how otrageous it would be, the more we are likely to do exactly the contrary.
What escapes me is why shouldn't media profit from repeating other highly emotional moments like anti-war rallies, concerts for peace and other expression of enjoyment of peace, rather then watching the tower collapse again and again. It's more like 9/11 horror then 9/11 porn
posted by elpapacito at 6:42 AM on August 26, 2006
What escapes me is why shouldn't media profit from repeating other highly emotional moments like anti-war rallies, concerts for peace and other expression of enjoyment of peace, rather then watching the tower collapse again and again. It's more like 9/11 horror then 9/11 porn
posted by elpapacito at 6:42 AM on August 26, 2006
"What we need is another war!" - Dead Alive
DERAIL
Also, scaryblackdeath, I'm not a comics person, but I seem to remember seeing a page from a Captain America comic book portraying the good Cap'n, in a flashback, fighting alongside the French Resistance. I think it was printed during the run up to the Iraq war, and Captain America was narrating about how disgusted he was by modern Americans who dissed the French as cowards.
I'm not very familiar with his character, but I've heard that his brand of patriotism is belief in American ideals, often against the actions of the American government. I'd heard that, but seeing that page (scanned and posted somewhere, I believe) really fascinated me. Do you know of the issue I'm talking about? What was the context?
/DERAIL
posted by brundlefly at 7:27 AM on August 26, 2006
DERAIL
Also, scaryblackdeath, I'm not a comics person, but I seem to remember seeing a page from a Captain America comic book portraying the good Cap'n, in a flashback, fighting alongside the French Resistance. I think it was printed during the run up to the Iraq war, and Captain America was narrating about how disgusted he was by modern Americans who dissed the French as cowards.
I'm not very familiar with his character, but I've heard that his brand of patriotism is belief in American ideals, often against the actions of the American government. I'd heard that, but seeing that page (scanned and posted somewhere, I believe) really fascinated me. Do you know of the issue I'm talking about? What was the context?
/DERAIL
posted by brundlefly at 7:27 AM on August 26, 2006
what if metafilter user osama bin laden is actually the real osama bin laden?
posted by snofoam at 7:37 AM on August 26, 2006
posted by snofoam at 7:37 AM on August 26, 2006
fullerine : "Anyone else think that somewhere there's an FBI agent trying to track down the offline identity of the Osama Bin Laden account?"
Hahaha. Of course. Because it's a lead, right? And we all know that the FBI follows up every lead.
posted by graventy at 7:45 AM on August 26, 2006
Hahaha. Of course. Because it's a lead, right? And we all know that the FBI follows up every lead.
posted by graventy at 7:45 AM on August 26, 2006
Please excuse my scorn. It's all for CNN, and it may be misguided. Perhaps CNN isn't primarily intersted in drawing attention to Pipeline.
Anyone who wants to watch this should. It's essential background for understanding the political sequelae.
posted by owhydididoit at 8:07 AM on August 26, 2006
Anyone who wants to watch this should. It's essential background for understanding the political sequelae.
posted by owhydididoit at 8:07 AM on August 26, 2006
Every time your president mentions, "The enemies of freedom," I laugh, because he's talking about himself.
So very true, tragically. It's the aftermath and horrible uses put to the events of 9/11 since that make remembering or rebroadcasting this anniversary without context so wrong. We hear about 9/11 every single time the president speaks still today--it's not like it even can be forgotten.
posted by amberglow at 8:19 AM on August 26, 2006
So very true, tragically. It's the aftermath and horrible uses put to the events of 9/11 since that make remembering or rebroadcasting this anniversary without context so wrong. We hear about 9/11 every single time the president speaks still today--it's not like it even can be forgotten.
posted by amberglow at 8:19 AM on August 26, 2006
I seem to remember seeing a page from a Captain America comic book portraying the good Cap'n, in a flashback, fighting alongside the French Resistance. I think it was printed during the run up to the Iraq war, and Captain America was narrating about how disgusted he was by modern Americans who dissed the French as cowards.
That scene is from the excellent Winter Soldier story arc written by the equally excellent Ed Brubaker. I loved hearing Cap share his unique historical perspective about a current issue.
This isn't the first time Cap has been at odds with the status quo. The 1970's were tough on him...
posted by JDC8 at 9:03 AM on August 26, 2006
That scene is from the excellent Winter Soldier story arc written by the equally excellent Ed Brubaker. I loved hearing Cap share his unique historical perspective about a current issue.
This isn't the first time Cap has been at odds with the status quo. The 1970's were tough on him...
posted by JDC8 at 9:03 AM on August 26, 2006
This thread reads like a chest-pounding "I watch TV even less!" / "this is an outrage" hipster-nerd pissing contest. Spending five hours on the internet a day isn't much better, friend. Faux liberal knee-jerking is even less respectable. I love MetaFilter, but you guys sound like pretentious jack asses right now.
If I were in the states, I'd turn on for a little bit. I wouldn't mind comparing my reactions now with my remembered reactions then.
When I taught high school history last year I read aloud most of the MetaFilter 9/11 thread. The sixteen year olds who were 12 at the time really understood what it was like for most of us. It was some pretty powerful stuff.
posted by trinarian at 10:25 AM on August 26, 2006
If I were in the states, I'd turn on for a little bit. I wouldn't mind comparing my reactions now with my remembered reactions then.
When I taught high school history last year I read aloud most of the MetaFilter 9/11 thread. The sixteen year olds who were 12 at the time really understood what it was like for most of us. It was some pretty powerful stuff.
posted by trinarian at 10:25 AM on August 26, 2006
osama bin laden is irrelevant.
Wow, maybe even Fox is finally realizing what a clown she is.
posted by homunculus at 12:14 PM on August 26, 2006
Wow, maybe even Fox is finally realizing what a clown she is.
posted by homunculus at 12:14 PM on August 26, 2006
Trinarian's right. Whatever CNN's motivation, what we saw is history and you can watch it, or not, as you see fit. I want to catch some of it since I was so busy working my news editing job that day--and for many days afterward--that what CNN was showing is a very vague memory. What I do remember is someone in the newsroom dialing around trying to find the local stations, several of which had to be broadcast on other channels since their antenna was knocked out in the collapse.
posted by etaoin at 12:35 PM on August 26, 2006
posted by etaoin at 12:35 PM on August 26, 2006
If I were in the states, I'd turn on for a little bit. I wouldn't mind comparing my reactions now with my remembered reactions then.
Trinarian -- It appears that CNN's Pipeline is an INTERNET service. You don't have to be in the states to watch it. Enjoy.
posted by bim at 3:39 PM on August 26, 2006
Trinarian -- It appears that CNN's Pipeline is an INTERNET service. You don't have to be in the states to watch it. Enjoy.
posted by bim at 3:39 PM on August 26, 2006
*blink*
I LIKE PEANUT BUTTER AND JELLY SAMMICHES!
*smile*
posted by ZachsMind at 4:17 PM on August 26, 2006
I LIKE PEANUT BUTTER AND JELLY SAMMICHES!
*smile*
posted by ZachsMind at 4:17 PM on August 26, 2006
I just looked at that thread from 2001 and reading it is extremely haunting. I was only 13 at the time and woke up at about 5am to see my parents watching it unfold in television (in Sydney). I didn't really realise the gravity of the situation of the time, 'a terrorist attck, whats that?' I remember going to school that day was absolutely surreal, we seriously thought the world was going to end. Ahelicopter flew over my school a lunchtime that day and some kids really started to freak out. It was crazy.
I can't believe CNN are going to make people relive it all over again.
posted by cholly at 5:45 PM on August 26, 2006
I can't believe CNN are going to make people relive it all over again.
posted by cholly at 5:45 PM on August 26, 2006
So, how many people will get confused by this, ala the War of the Worlds radio show?
I'm gonna guess at least a thousand.
posted by graventy at 7:23 PM on August 26, 2006
I'm gonna guess at least a thousand.
posted by graventy at 7:23 PM on August 26, 2006
If they showed it on the actual cable channel, yes. But as an online broadcast, not so likely.
posted by litlnemo at 7:35 PM on August 26, 2006
posted by litlnemo at 7:35 PM on August 26, 2006
From the second link:
CNN (Pipeline) [sm]: Political showdowns, car crashes, dramatic rescues, and more . . . .
Alas, if you'd like the optional sense of taste, decorum, or decency, you'll have to pay an additional $2.95 / mo.
posted by xthlc at 7:41 PM on August 26, 2006
CNN (Pipeline) [sm]: Political showdowns, car crashes, dramatic rescues, and more . . . .
Alas, if you'd like the optional sense of taste, decorum, or decency, you'll have to pay an additional $2.95 / mo.
posted by xthlc at 7:41 PM on August 26, 2006
Why in god's name would anyone to watch it again? I know that a some people have yet to see it, but just about everyone I know saw it the day it happened.
"Everyone, let's gather around today and watch the death of thousands again!"
That's just fucked up. :|
posted by JoshTeeters at 8:07 PM on August 26, 2006
"Everyone, let's gather around today and watch the death of thousands again!"
That's just fucked up. :|
posted by JoshTeeters at 8:07 PM on August 26, 2006
They'll rebroadcast Aaron Brown revealing himself as a lightweight narcissist on national tv. That's the week I quit CNN cold turkey.
posted by Phred182 at 10:29 PM on August 26, 2006
posted by Phred182 at 10:29 PM on August 26, 2006
Well obviously this broadcast and other live broadcasts are historic documents of prime importance. You can be in denial all you want, but there is interest in these documents beyong mere pornography, or more accurately thanotography.
The Howard Stern show from 9/11 is perhaps the most interesting live media document, it's certainly one of the most genuinely human.
posted by jchgf at 10:43 PM on August 26, 2006
The Howard Stern show from 9/11 is perhaps the most interesting live media document, it's certainly one of the most genuinely human.
posted by jchgf at 10:43 PM on August 26, 2006
cholly writes "I can't believe CNN are going to make people relive it all over again."
Wait, you mean they've made viewing mandatory?
JoshTeeters writes "Why in god's name would anyone to watch it again? I know that a some people have yet to see it, but just about everyone I know saw it the day it happened."
As I mentioned above, to compare their memories of the day to what actually happened. Especially with something like this, where there has been continued reporting about the issue continually since it happened, people's memories of the issue have probably become very mixed with later reporting, so they think they remember the issue well, but there are large discrepancies.
I'm not saying people should watch it again, but when asked "why would anyone", I'd say comparing how you remember something and how it really was is one viable answer.
posted by Bugbread at 12:43 AM on August 27, 2006
Wait, you mean they've made viewing mandatory?
JoshTeeters writes "Why in god's name would anyone to watch it again? I know that a some people have yet to see it, but just about everyone I know saw it the day it happened."
As I mentioned above, to compare their memories of the day to what actually happened. Especially with something like this, where there has been continued reporting about the issue continually since it happened, people's memories of the issue have probably become very mixed with later reporting, so they think they remember the issue well, but there are large discrepancies.
I'm not saying people should watch it again, but when asked "why would anyone", I'd say comparing how you remember something and how it really was is one viable answer.
posted by Bugbread at 12:43 AM on August 27, 2006
Good point, bugbread. While I certainly won't be watching it again, that is a very good and valid point.
posted by JoshTeeters at 6:03 AM on August 27, 2006
posted by JoshTeeters at 6:03 AM on August 27, 2006
Random personal comment: I'm not going to watch it, mainly because it would take too much time, but I do think it would be interesting for me because, when it happened, I was quite drunk (nighttime here in Tokyo), and had to go to work the next day, so I only caught the very start before going to bed, plus I don't have CNN (dunno if CNN is even available on Japanese cable/satellite). So it would be interesting to me because, while I remember what happened on 9/11, I've never actually seen the reporting as-it-happened, just the clips that were shown on Japanese news the next day.
posted by Bugbread at 7:16 AM on August 27, 2006
posted by Bugbread at 7:16 AM on August 27, 2006
*If* the service were intended to cater to the highest of purposes -- historical archiving, making a record available to the public, serving those few in their target audience not likely to have seen all the images and heard all the words a thousand times, it would be one thing.
But the fact of the matter, as many in this thread recognize, is that CNN has no credibility as the keeper of the record of anything. They are flagrant war-on-terra pornographers, and 9/11, arguably, was the best thing that ever happened to the cable news business, which was duying in the summer of 01 and desperately trying to get the Gary Condit story to carry the water.
Ever since they've basked in a glow of arrogant self-importance and asskissing toadying to power, all the while earnestly assuring us that they speak for some majority of regular folks (the ones who would "like to have a beer" with the president, no doubt).
F*ck CNN. This ought to be an occasion for a formal boycott of television news to begin.
We all know what this is.
posted by fourcheesemac at 9:00 AM on August 28, 2006
But the fact of the matter, as many in this thread recognize, is that CNN has no credibility as the keeper of the record of anything. They are flagrant war-on-terra pornographers, and 9/11, arguably, was the best thing that ever happened to the cable news business, which was duying in the summer of 01 and desperately trying to get the Gary Condit story to carry the water.
Ever since they've basked in a glow of arrogant self-importance and asskissing toadying to power, all the while earnestly assuring us that they speak for some majority of regular folks (the ones who would "like to have a beer" with the president, no doubt).
F*ck CNN. This ought to be an occasion for a formal boycott of television news to begin.
We all know what this is.
posted by fourcheesemac at 9:00 AM on August 28, 2006
Good call, 4cheesemac. If this were a reasoned, insightful, thoughtful study of what happened, then we'd actually have a documentary of value and a reason to watch it.
As-is, it is nothing more than violence-porn.
Shame on CNN.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:09 AM on August 28, 2006
As-is, it is nothing more than violence-porn.
Shame on CNN.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:09 AM on August 28, 2006
I'll probably take a peek. I want to see the anchors, mostly. I've seen the actual footage as much as anybody, but I was trapped in a locked-down office building in DC on that day, and we had no television, so I never saw how the anchors were responding.
posted by etoile at 12:58 PM on August 28, 2006
posted by etoile at 12:58 PM on August 28, 2006
it's really not a historical record (or it is if you only watch with the sound off)==it was all speculation and anchors talking except for the video, and they didn't have cameras downtown and recording the great walking exodus over bridges and stuff until later.
posted by amberglow at 2:19 PM on August 28, 2006
posted by amberglow at 2:19 PM on August 28, 2006
And now the JonBenet suspect is cleared . . . whatever shall cable news do until the next hurricane?
posted by fourcheesemac at 3:28 PM on August 28, 2006
posted by fourcheesemac at 3:28 PM on August 28, 2006
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posted by cavalier at 3:33 PM on August 25, 2006