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Marcus Fiesel, shoved aside again.
August 31, 2006 7:46 AM   Subscribe

On Aug 15 a three year old Cincinnati-area boy Marcus Fiesel, was reported missing. The truth has finally come out. On August 4th Marcus's arms were tied behind his back, wrapped in a blanket and bound with packing tape, and was locked into a closet by his foster parents. The boy was dead when they returned from thier two day long trip on August 6th. The foster dad then took the boys body to a rural location and burned it, several times, and reported him missing, over a week later. They claimed innoence even while they moved to a new house just days after he went missing. Then the until the police found the body, not far from a remote house of one foster mother's family members. no national outlet has reported it, it's largely been ignored due to the renewed media obsession with JonBenet Ramsey. Was it that Marcus was a boy? That he was dark haired? Or that he was poor and in foster care?
posted by Dome-O-Rama (90 comments total)

 
dupe, although the link in the original doesn't work.
posted by delmoi at 7:50 AM on August 31, 2006


I did a search for Marcus Fiesel and everything here... if nothing else it's an update with lots of info.
posted by Dome-O-Rama at 7:51 AM on August 31, 2006


Dome-O-Rama: at a guess I'd say it's because this is a sad story whereas the mini beauty queen death is a grotesque one. The public loves the grotesque but avoids the more mundane tragedies.
posted by Grod at 7:54 AM on August 31, 2006


I read about this on the Obscure Store a couple days ago.

Today I see people complaining about it not being National News. I gotta ask... why should it be? The comparison to JonBenet Ramsey makes me say, 'Yeah, and that shouldn't have been (inter)national news either.' What gives? Why does someone in Texas or California or anywhere outside of the immediate area need to know about this?
posted by dobbs at 7:55 AM on August 31, 2006


Was it that Marcus was a boy? That he was dark haired? Or that he was poor and in foster care?

Was it that there was no murder mystery?
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:56 AM on August 31, 2006


Cunning nails it. Most people would be saddened by this story (and FWIW, his foster parents should never see th elight of day again) but there was no mystery and no sense of a guilty person going unpunished.
posted by jonmc at 7:59 AM on August 31, 2006


Today I see people complaining about it not being National News. I gotta ask... why should it be? The comparison to JonBenet Ramsey makes me say, 'Yeah, and that shouldn't have been (inter)national news either.' What gives?

That's true. Imagine if every missing child case got as much attention as the Ramsey case, there would be nothing else on the news and it would probably cause most people to go totally paranoid. Salience is still the biggest driver of these things, and for non missing-people's cases what difference does it get how much attention is given?
posted by delmoi at 7:59 AM on August 31, 2006


Thank you for posting this.
posted by tadellin at 8:03 AM on August 31, 2006


National news is in the entertainment business. The have 1000 stories and 100 slots. They pick the 100 best stories to fill those slots. Have you ever seen a full UPI or AP feed? The amount of news generated in any given day is incredible.
posted by stbalbach at 8:05 AM on August 31, 2006


This was on the front page of cnn.com a few days ago:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/30/parents.charged.ap/index.html
posted by hupp at 8:06 AM on August 31, 2006


Was it that there was no murder mystery?

I think you meant to type "involuntary manslaughter mystery."
posted by peeedro at 8:07 AM on August 31, 2006


I don't think every missing child case should get the same coverage as Ramsey, but every time they convict someone of doing this sort of thing to a 3-year old, they absolutely should execute them right in the middle of the SuperBowl halftime show. In my opinion, people that do things like this to innocent children are the lowest form of life in the universe, and they should be treated EXACTLY as they treated the child.
posted by tadellin at 8:09 AM on August 31, 2006


Was it that there was no murder mystery?

Cunning nails it.


CL is awesome, but come on, the only mystery is how laughingly incompetent/corrupt the cops/DA office have been. with all due respect if Jonbenet is a murder mystery then OJ Simpson's wife murder is one, too.

the Jonbenet murder is many things -- titillating fodder for the crypto-pedos in the audience, a great topic for a clueless/dishonest/lazy/incompetent/various-combinations-of-the -above media -- but really not a mystery.
posted by matteo at 8:13 AM on August 31, 2006


I don't think every missing child case should get the same coverage as Ramsey, but every time they convict someone of doing this sort of thing to a 3-year old, they absolutely should execute them right in the middle of the SuperBowl halftime show.

Some of us like to pretend we're civilized.
posted by delmoi at 8:14 AM on August 31, 2006


Well I think it was because he was a boy.
posted by Flashman at 8:14 AM on August 31, 2006


To repeat myself...
posted by davy at 8:15 AM on August 31, 2006


matteo: Do you think the parents did it? Because other then them, no other suspects have been named. How is that not a mystery?
posted by delmoi at 8:16 AM on August 31, 2006


with all due respect if Jonbenet is a murder mystery then OJ Simpson's wife murder is one, too.

OK, Inspector, whodunit?
posted by jonmc at 8:16 AM on August 31, 2006


In my opinion, people that do things like this to innocent children are the lowest form of life in the universe, and they should be treated EXACTLY as they treated the child.

Trouble is, most grown-ups would survive being left tied up in a closet for 2 days.
posted by Flashman at 8:16 AM on August 31, 2006


(I do agree, as an amateur law enforcement buff, that the Ramsey case was handled incompetently, but I haven't seen hard evidence implicating anybody)
posted by jonmc at 8:17 AM on August 31, 2006


Dead kid: not news.
Adults displaced by bad weather: national tragedy.
posted by mischief at 8:18 AM on August 31, 2006


Some of us like to pretend we're civilized.

I will absolutely be uncivilized to anyone who would do this to a child. I have zero tolerance for this sort of thing. Zero. Do you have children? Have you ever been around a three year old child? Can you imagine, as an adult, what it would be like to be buried alive (which is essentially what happened)? Can you imagine what it must have been like for a child to die in this manner?

How on earth could anyone find any reason to allow these people to continue their existence??
posted by tadellin at 8:25 AM on August 31, 2006


It isn't the dead kid that is news it should be the lame-ass DYS system that is news. This happens repeatedly. I think they need to update the Foster Parent Application and Questionaire.

Q> let's say you and your boyfriend want to slip off to Atlantic City for a drug hazed weekend of gambling and maybe catch a threeway. Would you A. lock the kid in the closet? B. tape the kid's hands and feet and lock him in the closet? or C. gag, tape and lock the kid in the closet?

(see its a trick question)
posted by Gungho at 8:25 AM on August 31, 2006


.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:25 AM on August 31, 2006


for two weeks it was a mystery, they only this weeks arrested the foster parents, as last as last weekend they were still saying he'd last been seen at a local park
posted by Dome-O-Rama at 8:26 AM on August 31, 2006


About 100% of the time I see someone complain something not being "National News", I look around and notice it's national news.

I think what people mean is it's not "Histrionic News", where an entire channel is dedicating every possible minute to every single aspect of a case or event, throwing people at angles that are at best tangential to the situation, simply to keep talking about the original event for hours or days on end.

It was definitely national news. It wasn't histrionic news.

P.S. Sorry to hear about the kid either way.
posted by jscott at 8:27 AM on August 31, 2006


Flashman, true, but I advocate leaving them until they are in the same state as the child. Of course I would TELL them it would only be two days, and then I would leave them to rot.

That's about as civilized as I get, when it comes to punishment for child murderers.
posted by tadellin at 8:28 AM on August 31, 2006


t's largely been ignored

People complain when the media parades another dead white kid for ratings. People complain when the media doesnt parade around another dead white kid for ratings. Its local news, it hasnt been ignored.
posted by damn dirty ape at 8:28 AM on August 31, 2006


Saw it on CNN - go do a little research next time before you make claims about the media

No coverage indeed

posted by caddis at 8:30 AM on August 31, 2006


It like if something happens in your town youre insulted that Gerlado isnt there asking you questions. The lack of a media circus must be driving you crazy! No surprise the FPP poster is from the same town.

When I saw this in the news I was thinking 'wow, its nice theres no big Geraldo-led media circus around this tragic event. No high-priced shady celebrity lawyers. Nada.'
posted by damn dirty ape at 8:34 AM on August 31, 2006


How on earth could anyone find any reason to allow these people to continue their existence??

Well no, but I don't exactly have much faith in the justice system to figure out who's actually responsible. I mean in this case it seems clear-cut, but what about others? How do you really know a person is guilty? Given the number of death row inmates released I would hardly say the criminal justice system is a good way to go about it.

The second issue wants to televise the excitation during the super bowl. I mean, what the fuck? Why would we want to force a bunch of people who just want to see a football game to watch a person be killed?

And finally, I simply find the desire for murderous revenge gross.
posted by delmoi at 8:34 AM on August 31, 2006


Ok on the first article there's a picture of a kid, that looks like its supposed to go with the story, and the kid is definitely not dark skinned. Anyone else seeing that?
posted by allkindsoftime at 8:37 AM on August 31, 2006


Wow, what a fucked up sentance:

The second issue wants to televise the excitation during the super bowl.

I meant to write:

The second issue is wanting to televise the execution during the super bowl.
posted by delmoi at 8:37 AM on August 31, 2006


no national outlet has reported it

Um, yeah, wtf. I read about this on CNN. Front page.
posted by thirteenkiller at 8:38 AM on August 31, 2006


By the way, why was the child in foster care anyway?
posted by delmoi at 8:40 AM on August 31, 2006


I don't know that this story merits national news coverage, but the problem with the foster care that results in abuse of foster children nationwide does merit some national attention.

Jesus, I just read it again and realize that the kid was three.

Way too many adults in this country are not in control of their emotions. Feeling blue? Drink, or do drugs. Feeling angry or sad? Yell, or hit something, preferably your s.o. or kids. Feel happy? Well, you never really feel happy, do you, not with all those memories of yelling and punching your so-called loved ones haunting your every waking moment.

A three year old kid? Do you know how many couples that can't have children would have killed to have this kid? If only they had killed his foster parents...
posted by Pastabagel at 8:41 AM on August 31, 2006



By the way, why was the child in foster care anyway?
posted by delmoi at 11:40 AM EST on August 31 [+] [!]


Wild guess? His real parents are pieces of garbage. That, or maybe they passed away accidentally?
posted by Pastabagel at 8:42 AM on August 31, 2006


Wild guess? His real parents are pieces of garbage. That, or maybe they passed away accidentally?

Thanks Nostradamas.
posted by delmoi at 8:47 AM on August 31, 2006


when it comes to punishment for child murderers.
posted by tadellin at 8:28 AM PST


*points to Iraq on a map*
*points to Lebenon on a map*
*points to Darfur on a map*

*hands tadellin paperwork that claims Depleted Uranium causes birth defects*

*waits for evil-child killing rant to continue*
posted by rough ashlar at 8:50 AM on August 31, 2006


the news industry is part of the entertainment industry ... i think we can all draw additional conclusions from that
posted by pyramid termite at 8:54 AM on August 31, 2006


six degrees of George W Bush
posted by InfidelZombie at 8:54 AM on August 31, 2006


Or that he was poor

Where's the problem exactly - rich JonBenets family is publicly pressured and humiliated for the publics entertainment while whoever else may have been in Marcus's life is respectfully allowed to grieve in private.

it's largely been ignored

What should happen that hasn't?

That he was dark haired?


Seriously?
posted by scheptech at 8:56 AM on August 31, 2006


It ran in the A section of my local newspaper, complete with mugs of the parents and a pic of the house. I feel my appetite for lurid news was sated.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 9:07 AM on August 31, 2006


Sadly, children being killed by their parents is fairly common. That's why a ton of suspicion was immediately placed on the Ramsey family. However, unlike the case you are citing here, there are several things that make JonBenet's case unique:

1. Her murder on Dec. 25, 1996 was the only homicide in Boulder CO that year.

2. She was the only murder victim under 18 to be killed by garrotting in the USA in 1996.

3. Initial kidnapping evidence combined with poor police decisions (interviewing the parents together) and the high profile of the parents (rich) created an immediate media circus even before all the videos of Jonbenet in child pagents surfaced. Plus, it was Christmas.
posted by mattbucher at 9:21 AM on August 31, 2006


Not that I looked for non-local stories about this (everytime I think about what happened for more than, say, 2 seconds I get sick to my stomach) but, I figured it wouldn't be a big deal nationally because it happened in Cincinnati.

for two weeks it was a mystery,

Really? It wasn't to me. By day two, I was thinking something was up and the foster parents killed him and buried him somewhere just based on the conflicting reports and no one actually seeing him with his foster mother at the park.
posted by srw12 at 9:25 AM on August 31, 2006


Not be cold-hearted in the wake of something horrible like the murder of a child, but really, no such murder should be national news. I understand why they so often are, though, given the nature of the media. But why complain that this one piece of titillating material did not make the headlines in Chicago, NY, or LA?
posted by notswedish at 9:36 AM on August 31, 2006


Just a guess, but could it be because in America, money determines your worth as a human being?
posted by j-urb at 9:39 AM on August 31, 2006


Ok on the first article there's a picture of a kid, that looks like its supposed to go with the story, and the kid is definitely not dark skinned. Anyone else seeing that?
posted by allkindsoftime at 11:37 AM EST on August 31

All the pictures show him as a freckle-faced, boy with light skin and dark hair. Why did you think he had dark skin?

Wild guess? His real parents are pieces of garbage. That, or maybe they passed away accidentally?

posted by Pastabagel at 11:42 AM EST on August 31
"Friends of Marcus Fiesel's biological mother Donna Trevino says she's regretting that she ever agreed to give children services temporary custody of Marcus.

Monday evening, they say Trevino is so hysterical she can't even talk.

Trevion's friends say she wanted Marcus to be with a family that would love him and take care of him"
Sounds like his mother is a) alive and b) voluntarily put him in foster care because for whatever reason she felt she could not take care of him. That doesn't make her garbage in my book.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:49 AM on August 31, 2006


Good point.
posted by Pastabagel at 10:08 AM on August 31, 2006


One of the articles says that he was found wandering the streets and his house had little food. Also the walls and furniture were smeared with feces.

Poor little kid. People can be so evil.
posted by bayliss at 10:12 AM on August 31, 2006


The Jonbenet murder is many things -- titillating fodder for the crypto-pedos in the audience, a great topic for a clueless/dishonest/lazy/incompetent/various-combinations-of-the -above media -- but really not a mystery.


It is one in the sense that someone is getting away with murder. Murder mysteries aren't always whodunits - the battle to impose or evade justice is often just as compelling.
Knowing OJ killed his wife hardly took the drama out of that terrible saga.
posted by CunningLinguist at 10:13 AM on August 31, 2006


voluntarily put him in foster care

From an earlier Cincinnati Enquirer article.

(about half-way down past "Marcus' life has been anything but normal.")

"police in Middletown were called to his biological mother's home because the boy fell from a second-story window. In April, officers contacted children's services workers when Marcus was found wandering alone on Charles Street in Middletown and was nearly hit by a car. Officers who went to the Grimes Road house where he lived with other siblings and his mother in April said the home was filthy and there was very little food in the kitchen.

They noted Marcus was sleeping on a 2-inch-thick foam mat and that the walls, carpet and a homemade gate installed to keep Marcus in his bedroom were smeared with...
(you get the idea)"

... I don't think it was voluntary

(er, what bayliss said)
posted by srw12 at 10:20 AM on August 31, 2006


Matthew Shepherd was national news because it brought national attention onto hate crimes.

Nixzmary Brown was a national story (and dominated the news for an entire week in NY) because it brought attention on the deplorable state of ACS.

JonBenet was international news because network news is sensationalistic and we're all suckers for a mystery.

Marcus Fiesel got national attention, but we already know how bad some foster homes can be. We sould mourn for these kids, and anyone else senselessly murdered, but when the story reaches these levels, it's not about the victims, but about national fears and other things that they symbolize. So while I'm sincerely saddened by his untimely death, I wouldn't wish for him to have his face plastered over everything for the next two months. It's not necessary.
posted by Navelgazer at 10:20 AM on August 31, 2006


Does Ohio have the death penalty?

I wouldn't lose any sleep over these 2 being sent on to wherever.

And that's another bang-up job done by some state/local child and family services agency.
posted by bim at 10:21 AM on August 31, 2006


and then I would leave them to rot.

...thus proving you are psychotic.

You know what I think when I read cases like this? In Washington State where I live there are a whole bunch of them.
I think the foster care system is broken. It needs to be fixed.

We need to stop bickering over every goddamned dime. Stop building sport stadiums and underwriting millionaires and HELP THE FUCKING PEOPLE WHO NEED IT.

We need to do anything we can to save the next three year old from torture. Stop this fucked up cycle of torturing our children and breeding more psychotics like that tadellin guy above.

We need to put three year olds into the arms of people who will love and care for them.

I think: I should resist the urge for wanting to put a bullet in the head of any sick fuck that does this to children because that is energy wasted and energy that corrupts the heart.

Then my heart breaks a little more knowing what a daunting task that is.
posted by tkchrist at 10:25 AM on August 31, 2006



"InVoluntary manslaughter"

I will admit to not knowing the various details of the law, but how does the word murder not fit into the charges? I believe if I get drunk and then by driving I end up killing someone - that is also involuntary manslaughter.

But (torture) binding and wrapping up an infant is mental anguish of unbelievable proportions which resulted in a death, presumably a slow death.

Put them in the general population of a maximum security prison, for a long, long time (life...)

Re: the comments about depleted uranium.
Nicely done and dead on.
posted by fluffycreature at 10:37 AM on August 31, 2006


.
posted by amberglow at 10:57 AM on August 31, 2006


Knowing OJ killed his wife hardly took the drama out of that terrible saga.

no, Karr killed OJ's wife, didn't you read?

seriously now, I agree that sometimes it's not 100% about the whodunit, but in OJ's case it was much more complex for exceptional reasons -- first and foremost that great American taboo, race

and then, also because of the incredulity that a nice, gracious, articulate (at least for ex football player standards) celebrity like Simpson could kill two people (one of them the mother of his kids) with such Jeffrey Dahmer-like savagery. the OJ circus worked because people liked the circus -- the shameless judge, the dumb DAs, the racist cops, all under the LA sun (had the cirucs taken place in NYC it wouldn't have worked as well for TV, because people there have jobs, but LA's media for a year and a half was just coverage of OJtown)

but as I said, it was all about race. because sadly all the ink and TV hours wasted on OJ boil down to a simple fact -- a jury of dark-skinned people gave the LAPD a little payback for Rodney King (the attack itself and the not-guilty Simi Valley verdict) and a million other acts of racism. simple -- and sad -- as that.

Jonbenet lacks all of these factors. the actual technicalities -- was it the father, the mother, both of them, who covered whose ass -- are frankly deeply uninteresting, when compared to another murder lacking the whodunit element like the OJ one .
posted by matteo at 11:03 AM on August 31, 2006


It was the brother.
posted by bardic at 11:07 AM on August 31, 2006


Mom and Dad covered for him though.
posted by bardic at 11:07 AM on August 31, 2006


Got any evidence for that?
posted by Pastabagel at 11:08 AM on August 31, 2006


No, but I'm doing as well as the Boulder PD and DA so far. And haven't received a penny.
posted by bardic at 11:12 AM on August 31, 2006


Pencil me in for the brother too.
posted by bim at 11:16 AM on August 31, 2006


(Actually, I'm doing better in the eyes of tax-payers in CO. I didn't fly a dude who explicitly didn't make a confession ("I was there when she died") business class from Bangkok (and I've flown to Bangkok. That was at least a 1,000$ ticket, plus the tickets for rest of the Bloodhound Gang to go over and back)).
posted by bardic at 11:22 AM on August 31, 2006


Not be cold-hearted in the wake of something horrible like the murder of a child, but really, no such murder should be national news.
posted by notswedish


I believe the opposite. I believe that events like this should be made so rare that it when it does happen, the American public is horrified and outraged instead of complacent and bored.
posted by leftcoastbob at 11:30 AM on August 31, 2006


Wow, leftcoastbob, how do you propose that?

Humans always have and always will do horrible things to each other, unfortunately.
posted by agregoli at 11:35 AM on August 31, 2006


first and foremost that great American taboo, race

I'd say wealth and celebrity were pretty big factors, too.
posted by jonmc at 11:42 AM on August 31, 2006


first and foremost that great American taboo, race

I'd say wealth and celebrity were pretty big factors, too.


OJ was different because OJ was famous before the murders. And very well liked generally. It was like someone we personally knew was suddenly being charged with murder.

Most famous murderers become that way as a result of their crimes, a phenomena Mr. Karr is apparently attracted to.
posted by scheptech at 12:05 PM on August 31, 2006


no, Karr killed OJ's wife

after he drugged her, raped her, and ate her underpants.
posted by quonsar at 12:05 PM on August 31, 2006


and he did all that from, like, Georgia
posted by matteo at 12:08 PM on August 31, 2006


the actual technicalities -- was it the father, the mother, both of them, who covered whose ass -- are frankly deeply uninteresting, when compared to another murder lacking the whodunit element like the OJ one .

Millions of Americans disagree.
posted by mattbucher at 12:17 PM on August 31, 2006


I will admit to not knowing the various details of the law, but how does the word murder not fit into the charges? I believe if I get drunk and then by driving I end up killing someone - that is also involuntary manslaughter.

According to Ohio criminal law, murder requires intent to kill or the death of a person as part of committing a first or second degree felony. I'm assuming that the prosecution doesn't want to risk acquital by taking the burden of proving intent to kill, and instead is going for the rather easy case of endangerment resulting in the death of a child.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 12:18 PM on August 31, 2006


Millions of Americans disagree.

And millions of Americans are never wrong.
posted by dobbs at 12:29 PM on August 31, 2006


no, Karr killed OJ's wife
It was the brother.

etc.

In all of these cases, I think it was Bob.
posted by mazola at 1:41 PM on August 31, 2006


The charges will be upgraded to murder later, according to the prosecutor. The manslaughter arrest was just to get them in custody.

We need to stop bickering over every goddamned dime. Stop building sport stadiums and underwriting millionaires and HELP THE FUCKING PEOPLE WHO NEED IT.

tkchrist, I agree. Two tragedies in this area recently - Marcus' murder, and the plane crash in Lexington, have a link. Marcus was placed with these monsters by a "faith-based" placement agency - in my liberal interpretation, that's a private scheme doing a cut-rate job at something a fully-funded state agency could do better. And in Lexington? One air traffic controller in the tower instead of the recommended two.

Cutting back, costing lives. In the meantime, there's plenty of money for the war and tax cuts for the wealthy.

Marcus was developmentally delayed and had autistic behavior patterns. There are no services for the Marcuses of the world, trust me. But somebody, somewhere, should have been paid enough to care. Otherwise, what the hell kind of society do we have?
posted by tizzie at 1:47 PM on August 31, 2006


I blame the internet.
posted by Smedleyman at 2:01 PM on August 31, 2006


.
posted by TrolleyOffTheTracks at 2:16 PM on August 31, 2006


Wow, leftcoastbob, how do you propose that?

Humans always have and always will do horrible things to each other, unfortunately.
posted by agregoli


You know--the usual liberal drivel. Education is a start. A living wage. Spend less money killing Iraqis and more money at home.

If we give up our dream of making this a better, peaceful society, then we have nothing left.

Snark away at me if you need to.
posted by leftcoastbob at 2:20 PM on August 31, 2006


However, unlike the case you are citing here, there are several things that make JonBenet's case unique:

Also:

4. The manner in which the Ramseys lived, and raised their doll-child JonBenet, was definitely peculiar, perhaps grotesque. People wonder, if she hadn't been killed, what kind of adult that kid would have become.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 4:02 PM on August 31, 2006


People wonder, if she hadn't been killed, what kind of adult that kid would have become.

Yeah, and people also make a connection between the kiddy beauty pageant 'lifestyle' and increased risk of exposure to pedophiles. They have an emotional reaction thinking it just doesn't look right, and part of their fascination is gathering all the little factual details to back that original emotion-driven assessment up.
posted by scheptech at 4:54 PM on August 31, 2006


.
posted by owhydididoit at 6:14 PM on August 31, 2006


:-(
posted by WaterSprite at 7:14 PM on August 31, 2006


Who decides what's worthy of national attention? What child's suffering should be dissected by the media and the bystanders? What parent's mourning should be interrupted by prying and speculation?
posted by Dreama at 7:23 PM on August 31, 2006


Snark away at me if you need to.

Nah, you're far too boring.
posted by agregoli at 7:29 PM on August 31, 2006


I will admit to not knowing the various details of the law, but how does the word murder not fit into the charges? I believe if I get drunk and then by driving I end up killing someone - that is also involuntary manslaughter.

It varies from state to state. In some states simply getting into a car drunk is defined by statute as a sort of intent. There's also "second degree" murder which would be like non pre-meditated.
posted by delmoi at 7:56 PM on August 31, 2006


I'm sorry, but I think that a lot of problems like this could be solved by making birth control of all kinds VERY VERY accessible. If I could change one thing, that's what it would be.
posted by TochterAusElysium at 9:14 PM on August 31, 2006


We all remember Jon Benet and Elizabeth Smart. But what happens to the memory of a murdered girl like Abeer Qassim Hamza al-Janabi?
posted by homunculus at 9:14 PM on August 31, 2006


homunculus, my latest I'd-get-killed-if-I-actually-yelled-this-out-loud-here snark is "How many Arab girls were raped to death so you could cart your fat ass around in that ugly SUV?"
posted by davy at 9:49 PM on August 31, 2006



posted by damn dirty ape at 11:41 PM on August 31, 2006


tadellin writes "How on earth could anyone find any reason to allow these people to continue their existence??"

We're better than these sociopaths.

TochterAusElysium writes "I'm sorry, but I think that a lot of problems like this could be solved by making birth control of all kinds VERY VERY accessible. If I could change one thing, that's what it would be."

Mandatory reversible sterilization for both sexes at 10 years, renewed after each successful birth. There would be a lot fewer unwanted kids if it was a desicion that required two trips to the doctors office.
posted by Mitheral at 11:47 AM on September 1, 2006


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