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September 28, 2006 2:06 PM   RSS feed for this thread Subscribe

Congressman accused of sending 'sick' emails to 16 year old boy -- ""Maybe it is just me being paranoid, but seriously. This freaked me out."
posted by ericb (476 comments total) 9 users marked this as a favorite

Congressional Pages are the new altar boys!
posted by sourwookie at 2:09 PM on September 28, 2006


I don't know about 'sick', but it -could- be the start of a grooming campaign.
posted by Kickstart70 at 2:10 PM on September 28, 2006


54 y.o. Congressman Mark Foley, co-chairman of the Missing and Exploited Children Caucus has a MySpace page.
posted by ericb at 2:12 PM on September 28, 2006


"Sick"? For grammarians, perhaps. Innocuous and slightly vacuous, perhaps. It's not like the Congressman was all "ASL & DO YUO LIEK CANDIE FROM MY VAN".
posted by boo_radley at 2:12 PM on September 28, 2006


Congressmen don't use bookmarks, 'cause they like their pages bent over.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 2:13 PM on September 28, 2006 [5 favorites]


I'm more upset at his apparent illiteracy.
posted by sonofsamiam at 2:14 PM on September 28, 2006 [1 favorite]


'Sick' is the term the boy used to describe the e-mail exchange with Congressman Foley.
"In another Foley writes, 'how are you weathering the hurricane…are you safe…send me an email pic of you as well…'

The page forwarded that e-mail to a congressional staffer saying it was 'sick sick sick sick sick.'"
And, yes, we can expect to be seeing/hearing highly-charged political activity next week as folks from Congress return to their home districts/states to campaign for the mid-term elections.
posted by ericb at 2:16 PM on September 28, 2006


Lets just outlaw men hugging. I think that would be best. And why are boxers half naked? That's sick. And get this, in the hall just now a guy said, "hi" and smiled at me. Fucking pervert.
posted by Ragma at 2:19 PM on September 28, 2006


I met this congressman 12 years ago. I was renting a room in a frat house (ugh) and I was introduced to him because he was in town and decided to visit his old frat. The frat brother who hooked me up with the room told me in secret that Foley was gay. And a few years ago, when I mentioned this on my blog because of the gay rumors surrounding him back then, I ended up being mentioned in a south Florida newspaper as a result.

That's my Mark Foley story. I'm guessing repression of sexual urges is a bitch.
posted by grubi at 2:19 PM on September 28, 2006


Yeah, I read that, ericb. I'm dismissing the lad's assertion.
posted by boo_radley at 2:19 PM on September 28, 2006


I'm more upset at his apparent illiteracy.

Gawker at first thought the e-mails were fake due to "semi-literate blogger claims." They've retracted, since they have been proven to be genuine and from the Congressman."We Fucked Up.
Mistakes were made.

Not skeptical enough about Jim Jeffords.
Too skeptical about Representative Mark “Perv” Foley.

The emails are real, as we learned about ten minutes after posting them. And now they’re gonna blow the fuck up!

We will make an effort, in the future, to not be skeptical about funny/creepy shit, and to not care about boring old people shit."
posted by ericb at 2:21 PM on September 28, 2006


i call smear job ... come on, in these times you've got to get better dirt than that if you want to bury a politician
posted by pyramid termite at 2:23 PM on September 28, 2006


in these times you've got to get better dirt

Macaca...n****r.
posted by ericb at 2:24 PM on September 28, 2006


He checked on the page's safety, offered him a birthday gift, and asked for a photo? WHAT A MONSTER
posted by brain_drain at 2:25 PM on September 28, 2006 [1 favorite]


And, yes, we can expect to be seeing/hearing highly-charged political activity next week as folks from Congress return to their home districts/states to campaign for the mid-term elections.

Absolutamente. And as gratifying as it may be to see Foley hoisted on his petard, the vicious smear games of Election 2006 will be a double-edged sword, as much for Democrats and Republicans.

come on, in these times you've got to get better dirt than that if you want to bury a politician

Since when? Certainly not in Florida.
posted by blucevalo at 2:28 PM on September 28, 2006


I'm a Dem and I think that this is really shitty without any other evidence. Whether it's a calculated smear remains to be seen, but the only thing I see that's wrong in those emails is the overuse of ellipses and lack of capitalization...

Well, it might be a little weird that a congressman would be that friendly to a teenager, but the people that are screaming, "OMFG, KIDDY DIDDLER!" are overreacting at this point. The label of child molester is a life-ruiner, and it's not one you should be throwing around too lightly.
posted by MegoSteve at 2:30 PM on September 28, 2006


I'm really not getting this one. It looks like we might be dealing with an insanely homophobic 16-year-old boy here. Which isn't too unusual, I suppose.
posted by mr_roboto at 2:33 PM on September 28, 2006


"What happened was I gave certain people Thank-you cards, you know? I gave Foley one because he was a really nice guy to me and all. Then he asked me for my e-mail on the back of his. So I was like 'sure' because of course I had no suspicions."

Also, read the e-mails particularly regarding another male page 'Will.'
posted by ericb at 2:36 PM on September 28, 2006


will be a double-edged sword, as much for Democrats and Republicans

Exactly. It's too bad that politics of the past 20-years has involved such tactics, but I guess they've always been employed. I'm sure there are some incredible examples in U.S. elections of the 18th. and 19th. centuries, as well.
posted by ericb at 2:38 PM on September 28, 2006


I'm sure I'll be hearing a lot more about this on the news than the suspension of habeas corpus and the legalization of torture.
posted by sonofsamiam at 2:40 PM on September 28, 2006


'Habeas corpus' -- what's that? Is it related to e-coli and the tainted spinach?
posted by ericb at 2:42 PM on September 28, 2006


Well, it might be a little weird that a congressman would be that friendly to a teenager, but the people that are screaming, "OMFG, KIDDY DIDDLER!" are overreacting at this point.

I agree here. At worst, the letters by themselves are socially inappropriate. I wouldn't go so far as to call them "sick." Then again, I don't know the context either.
posted by jonp72 at 2:44 PM on September 28, 2006


#1 - gay /= child abuser.
#2 - maybe he likes kids? I like kids. I enjoy working with them, it’s probably the best thing I’ve had the opportunity to do. It’s great watching them achieve and grow as people.
I don’t have an opinion on the summer nudist camp (not my thing, but I don’t know much about how healthy or harmful it is or isn’t or whatever). But the Adam Walsh Child Safety and Protection Act wasn’t a bad thing (given, of course, that the criteria for being on the national sex offender registry database isn’t frivolous).
posted by Smedleyman at 2:46 PM on September 28, 2006


Perhaps the Congressman and Golan Cipel should become pen pals...or whatever. They're both self-loathing weasels who are lying about being gay.
posted by bim at 2:47 PM on September 28, 2006


'Habeas corpus' -- what's that? Is it related to e-coli and the tainted spinach?

No, it's the latest "Saw" sequel.
posted by blucevalo at 2:47 PM on September 28, 2006


"sick sick sick sick sick.'"

You know, like skateboarding tricks. "Dude, that fakey nosegrind was SICK!"

(No fire. All smoke.)
posted by klangklangston at 2:47 PM on September 28, 2006


Regarding context -- it appears that the boy (16 y.o. at the time; now 18 y.o.)" was asked by the Congressman for his e-mail address as he was leaving to go back to Florida for school. "...the exchange began within weeks after the page finished his program on Capitol Hill." It seems that the boy was taken aback on the very personal nature of the e-mails from a Congressman with whom he had little contact. He interpreted the familiar tone and the questions themselves as being odd. He got different advice from friends as to how he was reacting to the e-mails. He then reached out to full-time staffers in the congressional office of Foley to get their read on the matter.
posted by ericb at 2:51 PM on September 28, 2006


Since Nancy Grace will not be able to join us in this thread I will post in her place.

He's guilty! He's a pedophile!! Kill him!! KILL HIM NOW!!!

Thank you.
posted by MikeMc at 2:52 PM on September 28, 2006 [2 favorites]


#1 - gay /= child abuser. #2 - maybe he likes kids?

Exactly. Say Uncle.
posted by ericb at 2:53 PM on September 28, 2006


"Do you like gladiator movies, Joey?"
posted by JackFlash at 2:54 PM on September 28, 2006 [1 favorite]


"Dude, that fakey nosegrind was SICK!"

Foley axegrind?
posted by solid-one-love at 2:55 PM on September 28, 2006


he's such a nice guy...acts much older than his age...and he's in really great shape
posted by snofoam at 2:55 PM on September 28, 2006


To me it seems like a gay congressman kinda liked a couple of cute teenage boys, wanted to talk to them a little, but didn't really cross much of a huge line. God, I remember being a teenage girl -- I remember it being very common, albeit minorly creepy, for straight 50-year-old men to "chat me up" a bit (and sometimes a lot, certainly worse than this). Sure, it's a bit off, and he should knock it off. But it doesn't freak me out or make me hope he gets drummed out of office on account of this.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 2:56 PM on September 28, 2006


Yeah this is a bit ridiculous. I guess it was a little weird to ask for a pic, but the rest of the stuff? Is it really inappropriate for a congressman to be friends with a 16 year old boy now? What a fucked up world we live in if an adult can't even be friendly with a sixteen year old without being thought of as a pervert.

Also, here's another question. Is it inappropriate for an adult man to be "flirtatious" with a sixteen year old girl? If so: why? In a lot of places, 16 is the age of consent. I'm not talking about sleeping with them; I'm just talking about being 'flirty'. It seems over the top.

Furthermore there is a huge difference between being attracted to a sixteen year old (of any gender) and being attracted to like an eight year old. Having sex with a sixteen year old might be bad, but I would hardly call it "perverted".

Of course, the rules are quite different if you're running for office.
posted by delmoi at 2:57 PM on September 28, 2006


Is it inappropriate for an adult man to be "flirtatious" with a sixteen year old girl?

Yes, it's inappropriate. No, it shouldn't result in charges or accusations of pervert or child molester. That being said, I've recently watched a few French films (dubbed or subtitled, my French is horrile) on IFC and a recurring theme appears to be "man in his 40s-50s seduces teenage (15-17 year old) girl", and what's surprising is that people in the movies are responding with "That's kinda gross, but whatever floats your boat".

All that being said, I have a daughter and 5 acres worth of space for the shallow graves of men who come on to her before she's a legal adult.
posted by Kickstart70 at 3:05 PM on September 28, 2006


Is it also possible that the teenage boys who would work in a GOP congressman's office are more right-wing than the norm? If so, would they be more likely to interpret a socially awkward congressman as making a homosexual pass at them?
posted by jonp72 at 3:05 PM on September 28, 2006


As much as I like to kick Republicans I don't see anything so "sick sick sick" about these emails. I don't even care if Foley was leading up to asking the dude if he wants his thingie fellated. He was 16 years old, not exactly a baby, and it's not like Foley had him at knifepoint or anything.

In just a few months now this "child in need of protection" will be old enough to vote and join the military; when Foley first emailed him he was already over the Age of Consent in quite a few states.

Part of me thinks the "outrage" wouldn't be there is Foley was a Democrat and/or if the "victim" was female, and part of me thinks most Americans are just mindlessly silly.

And yes, on preview, I am a slow typist; please excuse me for not disagreeing with everybody again.
posted by davy at 3:08 PM on September 28, 2006


Co-chairman of the Missing and Exploited Children Caucus

Not suspicious at all. Call me a crazy nut here, but I think that everytime a child feels threatened by the contents of E-mail sent by an adult, we should take notice.

Furthermore there is a huge difference between being attracted to a sixteen year old (of any gender) and being attracted to like an eight year old. Having sex with a sixteen year old might be bad

Except for this minor worked for Foley and any recommendation would have been dependent upon the Congressman. We are told in the article that they ask for photos to remember the face for recommendations.

Of course maybe that's not bad, but I seem to remember articles of impeachment regarding a similar situation with an intern.

Check the home computer.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:08 PM on September 28, 2006


He was just taking care of some HR duties:
Foley's office says it is their policy to keep pictures of former interns and anyone who may ask for a recommendation on file so they can remember them.
Isn't it always the congressperson who makes sure they've got photos of former interns?
posted by kirkaracha at 3:09 PM on September 28, 2006


jonp72: in my experience as a 16 year old boy, any adult male who even glanced at me was a potential pervert. If they asked me what I wanted for my birthday or for a picture of me, I'd be avoiding them from then on.
posted by Kickstart70 at 3:09 PM on September 28, 2006


this minor worked for Foley and any recommendation would have been dependent upon the Congressman

Actually, not in this case. According to the first link, the kid didn't work for Foley.

He was just taking care of some HR duties: ... Isn't it always the congressperson who makes sure they've got photos of former interns?

Hee, good one.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 3:13 PM on September 28, 2006


jonp72 has a point. But then too even Republican senators have a right to be gay and/or pederasts.

As for Ironmouth, does the term Witch-hunt mean anything to you? What about homophobia?
posted by davy at 3:15 PM on September 28, 2006


Hmmmm . . . if he didn't work for Foley then why did his staff say this:

Foley's office says it is their policy to keep pictures of former interns and anyone who may ask for a recommendation on file so they can remember them.

Really? If he's not your intern, why do you want his picture?

There's got to be more here. Why is he getting the picture for the recommendation off his personal aol account?

Why does everyone over 50 use AOL almost exclusively?
posted by Ironmouth at 3:16 PM on September 28, 2006


All that being said, I have a daughter and 5 acres worth of space for the shallow graves of men who come on to her before she's a legal adult.

But after she's 18, she can date all the 50 year olds she wants and you're not going to have a problem? I mean maybe there's nothing you can do about it but seriously doubt you would just magically be OK with it on her 18th birthday.

The point is, why pick 18 as an arbitrary age when this all becomes "ok"? I mean in most states sixteen is legal.

jonp72: in my experience as a 16 year old boy, any adult male who even glanced at me was a potential pervert. If they asked me what I wanted for my birthday or for a picture of me, I'd be avoiding them from then on.

And by "pervert" you mean "gay" right?
posted by delmoi at 3:17 PM on September 28, 2006


"[E]verytime a child feels threatened by the contents of E-mail sent by an adult, we should take notice."

Do we strangle him or burn him alive?
posted by davy at 3:18 PM on September 28, 2006


When a child feels threatened by an adult in a sexual way, I think we need to take notice. Hell, when anyone feels threatened by another person, I think its important that they have the right to complain and have their concerns heard.

That's not a witch hunt, that's good sense.

pederasty, even with boys, isn't associated with homosexuality. That's an old carnard used to go after gay people.

Note also the kid complained to Foley's office first. Its not like he's going after him for points.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:19 PM on September 28, 2006


in my experience as a 16 year old boy, any adult male who even glanced at me was a potential pervert

You would not have liked being a 16-year-old girl, then, I can guarantee you. Adult male attention was pretty much par for the course, as I recall, and something my friends and I negotiated as part of being teenage girls.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 3:19 PM on September 28, 2006


Of course maybe that's not bad, but I seem to remember articles of impeachment regarding a similar situation with an intern.

The impeachment was for perjury about a consensual relationship between two adults.
posted by delmoi at 3:19 PM on September 28, 2006


Davy,

I haven't called for anything other than an investigation. I think that's what the complainant wants as well. Its perfectly possible that nothing was wrong. That doesn't mean we shouldn't look.

If this was just a regular guy running a car dealership in Florida, how would you feel about it? I'd feel the same way.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:21 PM on September 28, 2006


he's such a nice guy...acts much older than his age...and he's in really great shape

Yeah, that was the only line that read as a bit iffy. (Not that I think flirting with 16 year old boys is really iffy in and of itself. Just a bit bloody stupid if you're a congressman.)
posted by jack_mo at 3:21 PM on September 28, 2006


Tempest, meet teapot.
posted by wsg at 3:21 PM on September 28, 2006


When a child feels threatened by an adult in a sexual way, I think we need to take notice.

Since when is a 16 year old a "child". They a minor but not a child.

You would not have liked being a 16-year-old girl, then, I can guarantee you. Adult male attention was pretty much par for the course, as I recall

Exactly, this is all about different standards for gay people and straight people.
posted by delmoi at 3:23 PM on September 28, 2006 [1 favorite]


"The e-mails were sent from Foley's personal AOL account, and the exchange began within weeks after the page finished his program on Capitol Hill."

"The young man in question did not work or intern for Foley's office."

Yeah -- why would a congressman be asking for a picture for 'the files' and from a boy who didn't even work with the congressman?
posted by ericb at 3:26 PM on September 28, 2006


I haven't called for anything other than an investigation. I think that's what the complainant wants as well. Its perfectly possible that nothing was wrong. That doesn't mean we shouldn't look.

Investigation into what? To see if he really is a pervert? How do you propose doing that? With some kind of pervertometer?

If this was just a regular guy running a car dealership in Florida, how would you feel about it? I'd feel the same way.
posted by delmoi at 3:27 PM on September 28, 2006


delmoi: "But after she's 18, she can date all the 50 year olds she wants and you're not going to have a problem? I mean maybe there's nothing you can do about it but seriously doubt you would just magically be OK with it on her 18th birthday. The point is, why pick 18 as an arbitrary age when this all becomes "ok"? I mean in most states sixteen is legal."

Well, for one thing, I'm Canadian, so legality in the U.S. doesn't matter, but even so it's been 14 for a very long time in Canada and just recently upped to 16, I believe.

But the point is, if I haven't done my job by the time that she reaches AOM, I'm not going to be able to do any better when she's a legal adult. Whether I'm OK with it doesn't matter. I'm not raising a child to be the mental clone of myself (feminine version), I'm raising a child to be the kind of adult I'd like to have in the world; and the kind of adult I want to have in the world can think for himself or herself.
posted by Kickstart70 at 3:27 PM on September 28, 2006


Exactly, this is all about different standards for gay people and straight people.

You better bow out of this thread before you get your ass handed to you, IMO, because you are talking bullshit.
posted by Kickstart70 at 3:29 PM on September 28, 2006


I am a young straight male living in NYC, and it's pretty common for old queens to hit on me, in a more or less creepy way. This doesn't even cross the line. (One time a cab driver pinched my nipple and asked me to come home with him). Since Foley is gay, it is natural that there be some sexual tension between him and another attractive male who wants something from him. Believe it or not, that's the case for older men and young women too. There is nothing improper about it, since he never did anything harrassing.
posted by nasreddin at 3:30 PM on September 28, 2006


It certainly could be a ‘flirty’ situation. I myself don’t do that. But I know people who do flirt but would never cross that line. As an adult I have talked to some youger kids to try to make some contact and get the sense that I was still in touch And made an idiot of myself. Although I did get into a nifty conversation (while in my suit, badge, crewcut, etc0 with a cashier and his assorted friends who had come to visit him (dressed in trad. punk attire) about Black Flag, the Misfits and the whole second wave of punk which made me feel young again. But for the most part in those encounters you come off looking like a dork or a pervert even with good intentions. I can only imagine ‘flirty’ types screw up similarly only more so. I think kids are smart enough to spot the dangerous ones though, typically. But this kind of overreaction I can only imagine would be harmful in relationships with adults. When I train younger adults and kids I’m *gasp* touching them, stretching them out, etc. At some level that requires a kind of trust and relationship that could be threatened by overreaction.
Was this particular thing appropriate? I don’t think so. But I’m pretty straitlaced. I don’t know that this is a teacher/coach - student relationship. Really, I don’t know WTF this is. Pretty alien to me. But then I kiss male members of my family on the lips. Pretty odd to folks outside our culture as well.
posted by Smedleyman at 3:30 PM on September 28, 2006


But the point is, if I haven't done my job by the time that she reaches AOM

Please. Most 18 year olds aren't very "mature" no matter how you slice it. People continue to mature most of their lives. I also doubt that an 18 year old is going to be much more mature then a 17 year old.
posted by delmoi at 3:33 PM on September 28, 2006


Investigation into what? To see if he really is a pervert? How do you propose doing that? With some kind of pervertometer?

No, but maybe a Gaydar would work.
posted by Big_B at 3:37 PM on September 28, 2006


Hey delmoi: raise your own kids. And when mine reaches AOM, you can seek her out and see if she qualifies for your mature-meter.
posted by Kickstart70 at 3:38 PM on September 28, 2006


“Investigation into what? To see if he really is a pervert? How do you propose doing that? With some kind of pervertometer?”

“I think you're some kind of deviated prevert. I think General Ripper found out about your preversion, and that you were organizing some kind of mutiny of preverts.” - Colonel "Bat" Guano
posted by Smedleyman at 3:41 PM on September 28, 2006


"in my experience as a 16 year old boy, any adult male who even glanced at me was a potential pervert. If they asked me what I wanted for my birthday or for a picture of me, I'd be avoiding them from then on."

Jeez, project much?

As for why he was asking for a photo— even though the kid didn't work for him, it's totally possible that Foley thought he did. Clueless is not yet a crime.
posted by klangklangston at 3:46 PM on September 28, 2006


klangklangston: I'm not projecting anything. I'm explaining what it was like for me at age 16, in response to someone else's wondering about how 16 year old boys think.
posted by Kickstart70 at 3:49 PM on September 28, 2006


Well, I was a 16 year old boy once as well, and honestly it never even occurred to me that any adult man would be attracted to me.
posted by delmoi at 3:52 PM on September 28, 2006


delmoi: That's great for you. You are not everybody.
posted by Kickstart70 at 3:56 PM on September 28, 2006


As another once-16-year-old boy, uh... Delmoi's feelings are a lot more common. If someone asked when my birthday was, I'd think "Free shit!"
posted by klangklangston at 4:10 PM on September 28, 2006


"pederasty, even with boys, isn't associated with homosexuality."

The very first sentence of the already-cited Wikipedia article clearly says "The term pederasty or paederasty embraces a wide range of erotic practices between adult males and adolescent boys." The wording of the dictionary definition differs slightly, rendered by www.answers.com as "[a] man who has sexual relations, especially anal intercourse, with a boy" (etc.). Look it up yourself, even. Maybe you're thinking of pedophilia, which many (including me) hold to be a totally different thing? (By the way, I myself occasionally practice pedantry [Q.E.D.], a more satisfyingly sedentary hobby.)

I agree that "pederasty" and "homosexuality" (or even "faggotry") are not synonymous, and I think NAMBLA activist David Thorstad may have overstated the case a smidgen [warning: last link might be NSFW], but still, "pederasty" is associated with "homosexuality". (Those with the guts to click on the clearly "unsafe" link WWW.NAMBLA.ORG can read them make their case themselves; nobody's paying me here.)

As for Ironmouth's question "If this was just a regular guy running a car dealership in Florida", I'd feel the same way -- except that, because I don't kneejerkingly prejudge car dealers as "Fascist Monsters" like I do Republican Senators, I'd be less likely to feel slightly queasy seeming to defend a car dealer against a witch hunt. So what exactly was your point?

By the way, when I was 16 older men used to come on to me all the time, even 3 or 4 who didn't set off my gaydar at all and seemed damn awkward so I believed them when they said things like "I've never done this before." Now that I'm old, ugly, fat and poor I think I should have blackmailed a politician or two when I had the chance, eh? (Of course if there are any rich middle-aged Republican Senators reading this who ache to be blackmailed by an ugly old commie troll my email addy's in my Profile.)
posted by davy at 4:15 PM on September 28, 2006


This is clearly a Rorschach test.

That said, if an old guy who wasn't a relative or a teacher or a close (family) friend asked me for a photo and what I wanted for my birthday, at age 16 or 17, I'd be creeped out too.
posted by orthogonality at 4:18 PM on September 28, 2006


klangklangston: fair enough. I guess those feelings aren't as common as I though they were, though they were certainly existed in me and all of my friends at that age. FWIW, I was raised in a very homophobic (and racist and otherwise bigotted) small town society.
posted by Kickstart70 at 4:19 PM on September 28, 2006


When I was 12 (a long time ago) a guy who I now guess was in his fifties befriended me.
I was fatherless and poor. I liked the attention being shown to me.
His next step was, "what would you like for your birthday?"
In time he made his move. Fortunately what he suggested was, to me, so repugnant ? repulsive ? whichever, that my reaction must have frightened him. He never showed up again.
Back then I had no clue about gay or child sexual abuse. And this was within twelve miles of broadway & 42nd.
And I was pretty street smart. Or so I thought.
Just sayin.
posted by notreally at 4:25 PM on September 28, 2006


So from the sound of it, this Congresscritter and this kid had never met. The Congresscritter is being friendly via email, and the kid thinks that somehow he, out of all the thousands of people that talk to the critter on a regular basis, is Somehow Special and worthy of a come-on? Without ever having met?

Sounds like a kid with serious Center of the Universe problems to me.

And I say this as someone who absolutely despises the Republicans. I figured this was a dirty trick they were pulling on a Democrat. I'm biased enough that, when I found out it was a Republican target, I didn't think it was a deliberate hatchet job by the Dems, but ... well, maybe they're nasty enough to do it. I dunno.

In any case, R or D, this is foolish and should never have hit the mainstream media.
posted by Malor at 4:29 PM on September 28, 2006


54 y.o. Congressman Mark Foley, co-chairman of the Missing and Exploited Children Caucus has a MySpace page.

Hey, he's friends with Tom too!
posted by cortex at 4:35 PM on September 28, 2006


So from the sound of it, this Congresscritter and this kid had never met

The boy didn't work for the congressman, but had met him. It seems he stopped by Foley's office to give him a thank-you card upon leaving the congressional page program...and that's when the congressman asked him to write-down his e-mail address on the back of the card. How much prior contact -- in person, via congressional e-mail, etc. -- is unknown, if any at all.
"What happened was I gave certain people Thank-you cards, you know? I gave Foley one because he was a really nice guy to me and all. Then he asked me for my e-mail on the back of his. So I was like 'sure' because of course I had no suspicions."

posted by ericb at 4:39 PM on September 28, 2006


Sounds like a kid with serious Center of the Universe problems to me.

I think he was a bit perplexed about the tone and the things that transpired in their e-mail exchange. He was confused as to why a congressman (for whom he didn't work) was so interested in him and candid in their online conversation. When you read the entire e-mail exchange between the boy and the congressional staffer to whom he turned you see that he was seeking understanding from friends (some thought it was creepy; others not) and from folks with whom he used to work.

His reactions are par for the course of a 16 year-old.
posted by ericb at 4:44 PM on September 28, 2006


wonder if there would have been the same reaction (or lack) if Foley had been a women?
posted by edgeways at 4:46 PM on September 28, 2006


If the kid wanted to initiate an investigation he should have told the police or a teacher, etc. or his parents could have come forward. Etc.
Did he do that? No, he alerted capitol hill staffers.
Now, I’m with Kickstart70, someone touches my kid and that person won’t be seen anymore. But if there is anything questionable going on well before that point, I’d want the police involved. I’d rather spare my kid the grief in the first place.
So, why didn’t that happen here?
Ah, yes. He’s not some car dealer. He’s political.
posted by Smedleyman at 4:46 PM on September 28, 2006


Also -- from the August 30, 2005 [11:12PM] e-mail the boy writes to the congressional staffer:
"Yes. I have his [Foley's] personal e-mail
This leads me to believe that the staffer wanted to confirm that the boy was communicating with Foley by way of personal e-mail. Hence, I suspect the Foley staffer found it unorthodox for the congressman to be communicating with the kid via his AOL e-mail and not his official congressional e-mail.
posted by ericb at 4:51 PM on September 28, 2006


Did he do that? No, he alerted capitol hill staffers.

He was 16 years old and turned to the people for whom he worked, seeking understanding. BTW -- this started two-years ago and is only coming out now. It's possible the kid is behind the leak, but more likely that someone in D.C. (a disgruntled former Foley staffer, a hacked e-mail accunt, etc.) is behind this dirty tactic.
posted by ericb at 4:53 PM on September 28, 2006


Part of me thinks the "outrage" wouldn't be there is Foley was a Democrat

Har har har. The difference is, if Foley had been a Democrat, Rove's minions would be sending out the press releases themselves and Rush Limbaugh would be using this to hammer same-sex marriage.
posted by digaman at 4:59 PM on September 28, 2006


If the kid wanted to initiate an investigation he should have told the police or a teacher, etc. or his parents could have come forward. Etc.

Nowhere in the e-mail trail is there any indication that the boy wanted an investigation, lobbed charges or even meant for this all to be made public.

It appears that he only sought advice from his friends -- in Florida and former coworkers in DC -- as to whether or not he was being "paranoid" in his assessment of the situation. As far as we can tell he never even raised the issue with his parents.

The staffers may have felt akward about the situation and did nothing more than counsel the boy. Now -- two-years later -- someone is exposing the e-mail exchange using it as a political trick.
posted by ericb at 5:00 PM on September 28, 2006


Congressmen don't use bookmarks, 'cause they like their pages bent over.

I just noticed that. Lol.

klangklangston: fair enough. I guess those feelings aren't as common as I though they were, though they were certainly existed in me and all of my friends at that age. FWIW, I was raised in a very homophobic (and racist and otherwise bigotted) small town society.

I think in the 1980s and before there was a lot of sort of informational programs aimed at kids so that they would be "afraid of strangers". This was done as a sort of way to 'harden' kids against being abducted. I certainly remember reading that sort of literature when I was a kid. Don't talk to strangers; don't get in their vans, etc. I don't think that many people worried about that at all in the past, but I don't really know. So I think there was a sort of change in that time period. I think people are way over paranoid though, especially since childhood abductions are pretty rare.

Anyway, from my perspective that was all about protecting kids which I did not consider myself at all once I was older then 14. I considered myself a teenager.

By the way, there were openly gay kids at my high school, more lesbians but there were a few gay kids and they even had a gay/lesbian/alliance club.

Do you think it would be 'perverted' for an older gay guy to hit on an out of the closet 16 year old gay kid?

A gay dude hitting on a 16 year old boy without knowing their orientation is probably pretty rude an inappropriate, but I certainly wouldn't consider it 'perverted' or 'dangerous' anymore then it would be if they hit on an 18 year old boy.
posted by delmoi at 5:00 PM on September 28, 2006


"Guess who? Sorry to leave you so many messages. Just lonely here. Thinkin' about the muscly-armed paperboy. Wishin' he'd come by and bring me some good news."

the above quote was meant only as an injoke and in no way reflects the actual way I feel about this matter which is: "meh"
posted by hoborg at 5:03 PM on September 28, 2006


wonder if there would have been the same reaction (or lack) if Foley had been a women?

Depends on if she had been hot.
posted by delmoi at 5:03 PM on September 28, 2006


The first e-mail sent from Foley to the boy was on July 29, 2005:
"do i have the right email

Mark Foley"
The boy get's "freaked out" around August 31, 2005 -- the day when he sent this e-mail to the staffer:
"Ok. I am forwarding them [presumably the e-mails from Foley] now.

Maybe it is just me being paranoid, but seriously, this freaked me out.

But do tell me what you think about it all. I have one friend thinking I am being paranoid and the other saying she thinks it is wierd [sic] that he even asked me for my e-mail, much more what he said."
And "...I still haven't e-mailed him back, and I don't think I will for a while, if ever. What do you think about it all???
posted by ericb at 5:23 PM on September 28, 2006


BTW -- this started two-years ago and is only coming out now.

My mistake -- last year.
posted by ericb at 5:24 PM on September 28, 2006


Heh. In my country, 16 year old boys are fair game.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 5:36 PM on September 28, 2006


the "collecting interns photos" excuse would be much more plausible if: (a) one of the congressman's aides had sent the request (b) the request was sent from an official .gov e-mail address... not a personal AOL account
posted by pruner at 5:53 PM on September 28, 2006


"Nowhere in the e-mail trail is there any indication that the boy wanted an investigation, lobbed charges or even meant for this all to be made public."

It wasn't my intention to condemn the kid's actions. And I agree it's probably political dirty pool (which is why, y'know, I alluded to that). But I think it speaks volumes as to how 'creeped out' he was that he didn't go to the police. He had a 'WTF' moment which he handled however he handled and apparently didn't feel threatened enough to tell mom or dad or the cops. A weird and uncool encounter, but not threatening.
Ok, meanwhile Foley gets lynched by it because he's maybe gay. Well that sucks.
posted by Smedleyman at 6:00 PM on September 28, 2006


I think he was very puzzled by the congressman asking for a picture and what he wanted as a birthday present. Thinking more about the situation, it seems that the kid hardly knew the congressman who was the one to initiate what turned out to be a one-month e-mail exchange. He found it strange that a congressman was taking interest in him. If you think about it...it is strange and awkward, isn't it?

When Senator Kerry or Congressman Mike Capuano start sending me e-mails asking me what I want for my birthday and requesting a picture of me, I'll likely get a bit freaked out -- even as an adult.
posted by ericb at 6:11 PM on September 28, 2006


Meh...

Much ado about nothing. Even if Foley did want to fuck the boy, there's nothing overt in the emails about it. I think the kid's just a homophobe.
posted by MythMaker at 6:16 PM on September 28, 2006


Ok, meanwhile Foley gets lynched by it because he's maybe gay. Well that sucks.

I'm not sure the "gay" angle is the only angle here. There's also the issue of a person in a position of power seeking to form a relationship with this boy. I wonder what the boy's parents think about this. And let's change the gender. What would any parent think of a congressman communicating with their 16-year daughter, seeking her picture and offering to buy her a birthday present?
posted by ericb at 6:17 PM on September 28, 2006


i've been hearing for years that Congressman Mark Foley is gay, but it's supposed to be a secret.
posted by brandz at 6:41 PM on September 28, 2006


What's with Florida's Republican politicians? As a fifty year old type person - sixteen year olds just don't interest me outside my role as a parent or relative. So...this is weird.
posted by trii at 6:56 PM on September 28, 2006


wonder if there would have been the same reaction (or lack) if Foley had been a women?

Like, multiple women? Now that would have been kinky.

Look, women often just seem less threatening than men, for statistically good reasons. It's not OK to get hyperbolic about things and say stuff like "All men are rapists!" Hell, I even think men get shafted on car insurance. But it's OK to sometimes acknowledge differences in behavior and perception between genders. Of course the reaction might well have been more muted if Foley had been a woman.

Unless it'd been Hillary.
posted by namespan at 6:56 PM on September 28, 2006


I had men hit on me (more like flirting I suppose) when I was 16. As long as they did not harass me, I had no problem. I am not gay.

Wait. What's the problem again?

For once, I agree with delmoi.

Exactly, this is all about different standards for gay people and straight people.

Yep. Reminds me of how my friends responded in junior high when we saw two men kissing for the first time. OH MY GOD!! SICK SICK SICK SICK SICK!

Thank goodness for PDF Download, btw.

What would any parent think of a congressman communicating with their 16-year daughter, seeking her picture and offering to buy her a birthday present?

If she worked as a congressional page for him, I'd likely think little of it (depending on the gift (and what kind of picture), of course). I would sure as hell look into the relationship, also of course.
posted by mrgrimm at 6:59 PM on September 28, 2006


"What would any parent think of a congressman communicating with their 16-year daughter, seeking her picture and offering to buy her a birthday present?"

"What a good catch for you dear! Be sure to get lots of jewelry and don't sign any papers that our lawyers haven't vetted."
posted by davy at 7:00 PM on September 28, 2006


As a fifty year old type person - sixteen year olds just don't interest me outside my role as a parent or relative.

Well, I believe that children are the future. Teach them well and let them lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess inside. Give them a sense of pride, to make it easier. Let the children's laughter remind us how it used to be.
posted by mrgrimm at 7:05 PM on September 28, 2006 [1 favorite]


If she worked as a congressional page for him, I'd likely think little of it

What if she didn't work for him -- as this boy didn't work for Foley?
posted by ericb at 7:08 PM on September 28, 2006


davy -- you owe me a new monitor!
posted by ericb at 7:09 PM on September 28, 2006


Rep. Foley's Opponent Calls for an Investigation into Allegations of Inappropriate E-mails with Former Page
posted by ericb at 7:17 PM on September 28, 2006


"The boy served as a page to a Louisiana congressman last year and came to know Foley, 52. He sent the [Florida] congressman a thank-you note when his term as a page ended. After the boy returned to his home in Louisiana, Foley used his personal email account to correspond with the teen.

In the exchange, Foley asked the boy about weathering Hurricane Katrina and wrote, 'send me an email pic of you.' In another email, Foley told the boy he was on a break from Congress and was in Florida. He asked the boy 'how old are you now?'

The boy forwarded excerpts from the emails to congressional staffers and said, 'Maybe it is just me being paranoid, but seriously. This freaked me out.'

The boy, who is not being identified because of his age, told the St. Petersburg Times in an interview last November, when the Times first learned of the emails, that he cut off correspondence with Foley.

'I thought it was very inappropriate, the boy told the Times. 'After the one about the picture, I decided to stop emailing him back.'

But the boy said he was not seeking publicity. 'I don’t want to get involved in any big thing,' he said.

The emails have been circulating since they were posted on an anonymous blog on Sunday. An ABC News Web site posted an item about them Thursday afternoon and was the first to report that the Mahoney campaign was calling for an investigation.

ABC News reported that Foley’s office said he routinely asked interns and job applicants for photographs. But when the Times asked Foley about the emails nearly a year ago, he did not mention that practice.

He said he was merely trying to be friendly and did not mean to make the boy uncomfortable.

Foley has had email exchanges with at least one other former page who told the Times he was surprised to get an email from a congressman."

[St. Petersburg Times | September 28, 2006]
posted by ericb at 7:24 PM on September 28, 2006


Foley has had email exchanges with at least one other former page who told the Times he was surprised to get an email from a congressman.

Ironmouth: There's got to be more here.

I agree.
posted by ericb at 7:26 PM on September 28, 2006


May 2003: Rep. Mark Foley denounces gay rumors:

During the conference call, Foley refused to say if he was gay or straight. "People can draw whatever conclusions they want to," he told the Associated Press. "There are certain things we shouldn't discuss in public. Some people may think that's old-fashioned, but I firmly believe it's a good rule to live by."

And there are still folks who think it's possible he's *not* gay? Would a straight politician in the USA ever give the above answer? Riiiight.

The five-term West Palm Beach congressman has been under fire since a story ran in a south Florida news weekly that suggested Foley's sexuality has been an open secret for years.

In the May 8 edition of the New Times Broward-Palm Beach, columnist Bob Norman criticized mainstream media outlets for ignoring Foley's sexuality, while at the same time pointing out his pro-gay voting record.


There really is a double standard here that allows closeted Republicans to be hypocrites while using gay rights as a club. Those days are o-v-e-r.

davy: Part of me thinks the "outrage" wouldn't be there is Foley was a Democrat

Ok, so if a Democrat long rumored to be queer got caught sending the exact same emails to a page out of his office, with the page's "sick sick sick" reaction the same, are you seriously saying the Republican noise machine wouldn't be all over the story like flies on shit? What planet are you on?
posted by mediareport at 7:33 PM on September 28, 2006


*(the using gay rights as a club isn't directed at Foley specifically)
posted by mediareport at 7:35 PM on September 28, 2006


Some younger members may not recall that Congress had a major sex scandal with its pages 23 years ago. Well, two Congressmen. It led to certain reforms of the program. There was also a problem about a decade ago involving alcohol (and sex?) partying amongst pages.

A little before that I had looked into becoming a page, but my Congressman had people with better GPAs etc. than mine so it never went anywhere.

My take on these is "weird and socially inappropriate". For example, when I corresponded with my Congressman I got a formal letter in return roughly "How nice to hear from you! I remember your parents well, and say hello to your mother for me. As it happens ..." etc. There was one paragraph that was like that and the rest was a boilerplate letter from a Congressional office, probably put together by a staffer.

Even in this case, with the working relationship, I'd expect something much more along the lines of "How is your education at XXXX Academy going? What colleges are you considering? I would be happy to write a recommendation." Yes, even on AOL e-mail.

Birthday and picture, though? WTF? Either this is his grooming game or he's sublimating something and has no idea how to get a real conversation going. Basically has no idea what his boundaries are.

Anyway, it's a dirty trick only in timing. These e-mails have by report been circulating around Washington for a while; the Congressman surely heard via his office grapevine and has known it was only a matter of time. His reaction, and whehter this shakes any other rotten apples out of the tree, will be telling.

But you've got to be mighty stupid to be playing with fire like this. Especially when you make protecting children from predators one of your major planks.

And as for age of consent, most jurisdictions have a clause limiting the age of the other person, at most usually 10 years age difference, until they're of full majority. You'd have to be a mighty young first-term Congressman to fit into that one. Florida's law, for example, says:

(1) A person 24 years of age or older who engages in sexual activity with a person 16 or 17 years of age commits a felony of the second degree
posted by dhartung at 7:37 PM on September 28, 2006


Sorry I wasn't clear enough, mediareport; actually I meant the "outrage" HERE, on Metafilter, with its noisily partisan pseudo-liberal Democratic coterie. My take on Metafilter is that were Foley a Democrat the majority would be cussing out the "evil Republican smear campaign."

And sorry about the monitor Eb, but I can't be responsible for failing to anticipate that your sense of humor would be as puerile as my own. At least you can't hear me say "Bitch set me up!" in my "Joan Rivers" voice. And oh, to show how erudite I am, "It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife."

And dhartung, in Florida how often are 24 year olds cavorting with 17 year olds actually prosecuted, and what in FL is a "felony of the second degree"? Are we talking drawing and quartering or 30 days in county jail? (Not that I care personally; the age of consent for both sexes here in KY is 16, but I'm aging so badly that all I'd want is a neck rub and some stimulating intellectual conversation -- which pretty much rules out most people under 30.)
posted by davy at 9:54 PM on September 28, 2006


If the kid wanted to initiate an investigation he should have told the police or a teacher, etc. or his parents could have come forward. Etc.

Yeah, right. I can tell you how well that would go over.

"Hello? 9-1-1-? I want to report a suspicious person. He asked me personal stuff like my age and then he all but threatened to send a birthday card or something. He wanted a picture of me and everything. He is sick, sick, sick! Do something!"

Unless there's something else, this doesn't exactly rise to the level of police or investigations. What the hell do you think there is to investigate?
posted by leftcoastbob at 10:24 PM on September 28, 2006


This is a total fucking non-issue. Who gives a shit whether or not some half-literate Congressman has a crush on a page? "Hey looky here: a powerful filthy old man who could shoot you in cold blood and get away with it wants to bone somebody; this is way less pressing than the implosion of democracy."
posted by Optimus Chyme at 10:40 PM on September 28, 2006


Look, is this bad from a political standpoint? Obviously, it was inappropriate and he shouldn't have done it if he was worried about being re-elected.

But an "investigation"? What would that even entail? How would it be done? What exactly are you proposing should be done?
posted by delmoi at 1:22 AM on September 29, 2006


Jonp72:

Is it also possible that the teenage boys who would work in a GOP congressman's office are more right-wing than the norm? If so, would they be more likely to interpret a socially awkward congressman as making a homosexual pass at them?

Well, it may well be true that the more right-wing a person is, the less likely they are to be tolerant or accepting of homosexual behaviour – but I don’t think there’s any reason to think they’re necessarily more likely to misread friendliness as something more.

dhartung:

Either this is his grooming game or he's sublimating something and has no idea how to get a real conversation going.

So – according to these two options, either way, Foley had sexual interests in the boy. But I don’t see how we can safely dismiss a third, apparently perfectly legitimate option: He was genuinely trying to be affable and was, even if naively, showing an innocent interest in the boy and his life.
posted by ed\26h at 6:07 AM on September 29, 2006


IM IN UR CONGRESS EMAILING UR TEENAGE BOYZ

Frankly this whole story seems a little silly.
posted by clevershark at 7:12 AM on September 29, 2006


While there are ambivalencies here, the root issue for me is that Foley represents the potential for reaping the whirlwind. He is not only a member of the party that crusades to curtail rights and torture people, but the party that beds down with the paranoid, repressed religious right. He -- in a leading way within his party -- panders to the sex panic in the US shamelessly with righteous efforts to brand perverts in the pubic square. And his party has made hatred of gays (and other practitioners of alternative sexualities) a standard appeal the party uses iin elections on every level to whip up mob sentiment -- most especially in the last presidential election, in which the GOP machine in several states engineered anti-gay-marriage bills onto the ballot in order to draw out a reliable GOP constituency: homophobes and haters.

Yes, America confuses its classes of perverstions. But who has helped this along -- mixing up legitimate despisal of child molesters with heinous hatred for homosexuals -- more so than Republicans of Foley's ilk?

Watch that thing when you throw it, assholes. You live in a glass house and it's a boomerang stone.
posted by fourcheesemac at 7:23 AM on September 29, 2006


And I will bet money the kid in question is a republican, his parents are republican contributors, and this was revealed to the press via a chain of republicans of the sanctified sort.

This is not a media-initiated hit job, and it didn't start with the Dems either. I guarantee it.
posted by fourcheesemac at 7:25 AM on September 29, 2006


Whatever its source or motivation, it's basically .
posted by davy at 8:52 AM on September 29, 2006


But an "investigation"? What would that even entail? How would it be done?

Florida Rep's Emails to Male Page Raise Eyebrows
"Florida Republican Congressman Mark Foley exchanged personal emails with a 16-year-old former male page for a month, asking how old the young man was, if he wanted a photo, and requesting a photo.

Reports of the emails have rocked the House, bringing back memories of a scandal involving two members of Congress who had sex with two Congressional pages in the 1980s.

While Foley denied doing anything improper, sources say the Capitol Hill Police department is now looking into the Congressman's behavior.

In 1983, the House censured Illinois Republican Congressman Phil Crane and Garry Studds (D-Mass) after both admitted having sex with pages. Crane's lover was female while Studds' was male. Crane, who cried on the floor of the House and asked his colleagues to forgive him, lost his re-election campaign the following year.

Studds, however, refused to admit any guilt and became the first member of the House to openly admit his homosexuality while saying he did nothing wrong. He served several more terms before retring."

posted by ericb at 9:00 AM on September 29, 2006


"Trisha Biggers Peterson, a Gainesville mental health counselor and consultant to businesses on sexual harassment issues, called the e-mails 'troubling.'

'What's most troubling to me is it's a peer letter. It's not an appropriate letter for a 52-year-old and a 16-year-old,' said Biggers Peterson. 'They're not age mates at all in any shape or form.' [source]

"...there are strict rules about contacts between members of Congress and the teenage pages who serve as their messengers. [source]

"According to sources familiar with the e-mails, the page - who lives in Monroe, La. - forwarded copies of Foley's e-mails to Danielle Savoy, a former scheduler for U.S. Rep. Rodney Alexander, a Republican from Monroe. Savoy could not be reached for comment and Alexander's office did not return phone calls.

No official complaints about the e-mails have been filed with congressional authorities, according to Salley Collins, a spokeswoman for the House Committee on Administration, which oversees the House Clerk's Office, which runs the congressional page program. Pages serve as runners carrying messages and other items between congressional offices and elsewhere in the Capitol.

...The only contact Foley had with the teen, [Foley spokesman Jason] Kello said, was during a speech Foley gave to a group of House pages and when the boy was running errands for House members, including Foley.

In a online diary the page kept, he wrote about his experience as a congressional page several times and talked about meeting a number of politicians, but never mentioned Foley. The teenager also describes himself as a Republican who wants to be president." [source]
posted by ericb at 9:08 AM on September 29, 2006


According to sources familiar with the e-mails, the page - who lives in Monroe, La. - forwarded copies of Foley's e-mails to Danielle Savoy, a former scheduler for U.S. Rep. Rodney Alexander, a Republican from Monroe.

So -- it appears that the boy sought advice from someone in the office in which he worked and not someone in Foley's.
posted by ericb at 9:12 AM on September 29, 2006


"Especially when you make protecting children from predators one of your major planks."

It was obviously research. He was seeing how at-risk this kid was for being totally chickenhawked.

"But an "investigation"? What would that even entail? How would it be done? What exactly are you proposing should be done?"

Easy. We put electrodes on his cock and show him pictures from the Abercrombie and Fitch catalog. If he gets a stiffy, he's guilty.
posted by klangklangston at 9:12 AM on September 29, 2006


What do the electrodes do?
posted by sonofsamiam at 9:14 AM on September 29, 2006


What don't they do?
posted by klangklangston at 9:42 AM on September 29, 2006


"If there was no stiffy, the prosecution is iffy!"
posted by cortex at 10:42 AM on September 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


If you were trying to hit on a 16 year-old boy, would you really use the line "what do you want for your birthday?" If Foley is trying to get laid, he sucks at it.
posted by mullacc at 11:19 AM on September 29, 2006


“If you think about it...it is strange and awkward, isn't it?”

Yep.
...you wouldn’t happen to have a full body shot you could send me do you?

‘What would any parent think of a congressman communicating with their 16-year daughter, seeking her picture and offering to buy her a birthday present?” - posted by ericb

I don’t know that it was an offer to buy a birthday present so much as a ‘what kind of stuff do you like’ question. But it certainly could be that too.
But (the above quote) is exactly my point. His parents think nothing of it apparently. Whether that’s because he didn’t tell them or whatever. I would have called the police. Wouldn’t have even thought twice about it. I’d want a record of pre-existing contact established so if anything did happen I’d know who’s ass to fry.
(which speaks to leftcoastbob ‘s comment: “What the hell do you think there is to investigate?” - that’s exactly why the police are there. My taxes don’t go to them to sit on their asses and eat donuts).

But again - didn’t happen here. So, kinda weird both ways. And indeed - inappropriate. But again - most people with a lot of wealth and/or in positions of power are fairly divorced from reality to start with. Doesn’t cut the guy any slack, just recognizing the calls for an investigation weren’t initiated by the kid or his parents but from the political sphere which is inbred to begin with.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:36 AM on September 29, 2006


He's going to resign, according to AP.
posted by CunningLinguist at 11:57 AM on September 29, 2006


I think that this sort of criticism and discussion is entirely legitimate. Foley is a public representative of a political party that is going out of its way to try and outlaw same-sex marriage, while sending bumblingly flirtatious emails to a 16 year old boy. If Foley were a Democrat, I think this would all be less of an issue, because the Democrats have not propogated a virulently anti-gay agenda. The Repugnicans have. This episode exposes Foley as a hypocrite, that's all. And in politics, such public shaming is legitimate.
posted by Azaadistani at 11:59 AM on September 29, 2006


If the page were a 16 year old girl who didn't even work in his office, who would be defending a 50-year-old congressman sending her private emails asking for her picture?
posted by CunningLinguist at 12:02 PM on September 29, 2006


He's not running for reelection--CNN just said--good.
posted by amberglow at 12:03 PM on September 29, 2006


His parents think nothing of it apparently.

No one knows what they think, since the boy has not been identified publicly and the parents appear to have not spoken out or been interviewed.
posted by ericb at 12:06 PM on September 29, 2006


Well, the election is now so buh bye Mark. Maybe now he can relax and get out of the closet.
posted by CunningLinguist at 12:06 PM on September 29, 2006


I suspect that the boy kept the exchange from them and they are just now learning about it. Who knows?
posted by ericb at 12:11 PM on September 29, 2006


*from them his parents*
posted by ericb at 12:12 PM on September 29, 2006


REPORT: Rep. Mark Foley Will Not Run For Reelection, Fears More Emails Exist.
posted by ericb at 12:13 PM on September 29, 2006


Oh -- there were sexually explicit AOL instant messages from Foley to the boy and others.

Foley To Resign Over Sexually Explicit Messages to Minors
posted by ericb at 12:15 PM on September 29, 2006


Holy shit -- "Hours earlier, ABC News had read excerpts of instant messages provided by former pages who said the congressman, under the AOL Instant Messenger screen name Maf54, made repeated references to sexual organs and acts."

Nice -- and Foley is co-chairman of the Missing and Exploited Children Caucus.

Sick. I need to take a shower.
posted by ericb at 12:16 PM on September 29, 2006


Oh -- there were sexually explicit AOL instant messages from Foley to the boy and others.

I misread the report. It never mentions that the boy in question received IMs from Foley. It is other congressional pages who did.

It looks like the boy's instinct was right. He felt something seemed strange about Foley's intentions.
posted by ericb at 12:22 PM on September 29, 2006


Looks like AOL will be receing a subpoena for access to Maf54' account.
posted by ericb at 12:22 PM on September 29, 2006


About to hit the wires that Foley is considering resigning. I think he's about to go.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:26 PM on September 29, 2006


Yup. He's toast. He just resigned.
posted by bim at 12:29 PM on September 29, 2006


Ironmouth, were did you get that?
posted by now i'm piste at 12:30 PM on September 29, 2006


"Foley, 52, had been considered a shoo-in for re-election..."

Folks in the Florida Deocratic caucus are dancing in the aisles.
posted by ericb at 12:31 PM on September 29, 2006


Wow, what a sicko. Hypocrisy at its absolute worst-- he was the co-chairman of the Missing and Exploited Children Caucus.
posted by cell divide at 12:31 PM on September 29, 2006


Why do pedophiles always have creepy bug eyes?


posted by thefreek at 12:39 PM on September 29, 2006


Foley Retiring, Plans to Devote More Time to MySpace.
posted by ericb at 12:42 PM on September 29, 2006




Caption?
posted by ericb at 12:45 PM on September 29, 2006


Seems the conversation has shifted to the other thread.
posted by ericb at 1:06 PM on September 29, 2006


Caption?

"Sure, son, I'd be happy to coach your little league team!"
posted by bim at 1:09 PM on September 29, 2006


Since the other thread has been closed, I'll repost my comment here:
Foley sponsored a bunch of relevant legislation.

posted by MrMoonPie at 2:35 PM on September 29, 2006


amberglow in the closed thread: "There must be really really sick or filthy stuff that's not being released or reported on--otherwise he would have tried to stay."

On "Hardball" just moments ago an NBC News analyst and a Washington Post reporter made a similar point. They said the typical pattern in congressional scandals has been "deny, deny, deny, wait it out, wait it out, evidence is revealed, apologize." That's what Gerry Studs did in his page scandal -- and he went on to get reelected two more times.

The fact that Foley resigned immediately leads them to believe that there's some really damaging evidence out there -- and Foley knows it.
posted by ericb at 2:41 PM on September 29, 2006


I suspect AOL will receive a subpoena for Foley's account -- and the Capitol Police and/or FBI will subpoena his home and office computers.
posted by ericb at 2:42 PM on September 29, 2006


From ABC News:
"Congressman Mark Foley, Republican from Florida, resigned today just hours after ABC News questioned him about a series of sexually explicit instant messages involving current and former underage male Congressional pages. Foley used the login name Maf54.
Maf54: Do I make you a little horny ?
Teen: A little.
Maf54: Cool.
Foley was the Chairman of the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children and has long crusaded for tough laws against those who use the Internet for sexual exploitation of children.
"

Methinks we'll be seeing more AOL IM transcripts coming out in the press.
posted by ericb at 2:46 PM on September 29, 2006


Note that this IM exchange is not with the boy in question, but with one of the "minors" who handed the transcripts over to ABC News yesterday:
"Hours earlier, ABC News had read excerpts of instant messages provided by former male pages who said the congressman, under the AOL Instant Messenger screen name Maf54, made repeated references to sexual organs and acts."

posted by ericb at 2:49 PM on September 29, 2006


*gloats*

The reason that Republicans think all homosexuals are secret pederasts is that that's the only kind they've ever met.
posted by dhartung at 2:49 PM on September 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


It's called ephebophilia or hebephilia.
posted by cookie-k at 2:55 PM on September 29, 2006


“No one knows what they think, since the boy has not been identified publicly and the parents appear to have not spoken out or been interviewed.” - posted by ericb

Yes. That’s. Right. Which. Is. Why. I. Said. That. And then. I said “Whether that’s because he didn’t tell them or whatever.”
WHATEVER
Function: adjective
1 a : any...that : all...that b : no matter what
2 : of any kind at all -- used after the substantive it modifies with any or with an expressed or implied negative
Whether he told them or not or whatever.

Then. I said: “I would have called the police.”
Meaning had he told them, before the fact, my actions, as a parent, had I known, would have been to call the police. This is predicated on the concept of parenthood and me being an average parent concerned with the welfare of my child. And the impetus of knowing and the matter not being of substance enough to the kid to tell his parents as opposed to someone clubbing him on the head, dragging him into a van and molesting him, which I think he might inform his parents of.

Are you not reading the comment fully or intentionally trying to argue with me over minutiae that would otherwise be baseless? I’m not trying to be acrimonious, but clearly you’re not getting what I’m saying. Perhaps I’m not expressing the point well, but I don’t know how to make that much clearer or plainer.

“The fact that Foley resigned immediately leads them to believe that there's some really damaging evidence out there -- and Foley knows it.” -posted by ericb

Indeed.
Re: IM exchange.
Well there ya go. He is indeed short eyes. Moot point.

posted by Smedleyman at 3:07 PM on September 29, 2006


Are you not reading the comment fully or intentionally trying to argue with me over minutiae that would otherwise be baseless?

Neither. I misinterpreted you original post.
posted by ericb at 3:14 PM on September 29, 2006


Do I make you a little horny?
posted by MegoSteve at 3:30 PM on September 29, 2006


"The language gets much more graphic, too graphic to be broadcast, and at one point the congressman appears to be describing Internet sex.

Federal authorities say such messages could result in Foley's prosecution, under some of the same laws he helped to enact.

'Adds up to soliciting underage children for sex,' said Brad Garrett, a former FBI agent and now an ABC News consultant. 'And what it amounts to is serious both state and federal violations that could potentially get you a number of years.'"
posted by ericb at 3:34 PM on September 29, 2006


meta
posted by sgt.serenity at 3:35 PM on September 29, 2006


And this points out the issue of power:

"One former page tells ABC News that his class was warned about Foley by people involved in the program.

Other pages told ABC News they were hesitant to report Foley because of his power in Congress."
posted by ericb at 3:37 PM on September 29, 2006


He can't much plead ignorance, as he wrote most of the laws himself!
posted by delmoi at 3:45 PM on September 29, 2006


"A dead girl or a live boy"

Congratulations, Mr. Foley, you just hit jackpot no. 2!
posted by Skeptic at 3:55 PM on September 29, 2006


Wow...not to be newsfilterish, but the amount of followup facts here in this thread almost make it worth a MetaTalk post to draw people back to the discussion.
posted by Kickstart70 at 4:10 PM on September 29, 2006


So, just for kicks, I googled Foley, and found an address, one that is, conveniently, on my way home from work. So I dropped by just now; it's the yellow house. There were a few reporters out and about, but nothing too entertaining.
posted by MrMoonPie at 4:16 PM on September 29, 2006


I wonder if his searches are on that AOL list that was released a few weeks ago.
posted by Kickstart70 at 4:25 PM on September 29, 2006


Maf54: Do I make