systematically eliminated or weakened rules designed to enforce the separation of church and state

October 11, 2006 9:35 AM

the American God? The herders of this remote mountain village know little about America, but have learned from those who run a US-funded aid program about the American God. A Christian God. ...
posted by amberglow (32 comments total)

and from there: ...The numbers also show that the faith-based initiative overseas is almost exclusively a Christian initiative: Only two Jewish development groups and two Muslim groups of any type got any grants or contracts between fiscal 2001 and fiscal 2005, and Christians received 98.3 percent of all such funds to religious groups from fiscal 2001 to fiscal 2005. ...
posted by amberglow at 9:37 AM on October 11, 2006

Old news. In other news, mainline liberal churches in the northeast are getting the majority of the Faith Based Initiative monies, much to the annoyance of the Family Research Council. Natch that, you bushie twatted arses!
posted by parmanparman at 9:40 AM on October 11, 2006

Oh goody! This again.

Last time we talked about this, people made the argument, rejected by the Supreme Court, that this violates the Constitution. Are we going to have that discussion again?
posted by dios at 9:44 AM on October 11, 2006

Hey, this is great! All those isolated people finally hearing the word of God. Maybe they can burn all their cultural artifacts to get rid of their pagan past. That would really make God smile.
posted by SBMike at 9:44 AM on October 11, 2006

Well, I guess if the Supreme Court says so it must be true.
posted by freebird at 9:47 AM on October 11, 2006

It's not the fault of Christians that Jews and Muslims don't eat pork.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:48 AM on October 11, 2006 [3 favorites]

The other point to make is that most Christian groups are willing to go for government funding for overseas aid. Whereas the vast majority of groups helping people overseas wouldn't touch the stuff with a ten-foot pole.

Muslim orgs like Islamic Relief does wonders without ever getting gov funding, like Christian Peacemaker Teams, who were villified after going to Gaza and Iraq.

Also, Americans always overestimate how much aid we are giving overseas. The real number is something like 0.07 per cent of GDP and the majority of that goes to fund arms deals with our 'allies'. That's the real thing that should be getting outcry.
posted by parmanparman at 9:49 AM on October 11, 2006

The other point to make is that most Christian groups are willing to go for government funding for overseas aid.

SCRATCH THAT! Meant to say that it is mostly Christian groups willing to go for government funding for overseas aid.
posted by parmanparman at 9:51 AM on October 11, 2006

Now we have known that you don't need to struggle to please God.

makes me wonder what kind of religion they're teaching to these people
posted by pyramid termite at 9:54 AM on October 11, 2006

Remember when Republicans stood for smaller, less-intrusive government? Now w.r.t. Democrats it's more a matter of degree than of kind.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 10:02 AM on October 11, 2006

Perhaps third world countries need to progress to the next level of religous thought. Maybe this is helping them. They aren't at a level where secular government is a battlefield. They are pouring milk in the river.
posted by ewkpates at 10:13 AM on October 11, 2006

Perhaps third first world countries need to progress to the next level of religious thought.

What's helping these people is the roofs over their heads and the food brought by these groups. The religious message isn't helping them at all.
posted by SBMike at 10:28 AM on October 11, 2006

Remember when Republicans stood for smaller, less-intrusive government?

The fucking slime, they were just waiting to get into power to implement all their private plans. Really unforgivable.
posted by sonofsamiam at 10:38 AM on October 11, 2006

Are we then Christo-imperialists?
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:10 AM on October 11, 2006

Great post Amberglow.
Is anyone else bothered by the fact that all this money being directed to the administration's "base," is just another form of graft? Where is the big bucks grant for the good works of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster??
posted by ahimsakid at 11:11 AM on October 11, 2006

“The real number is something like 0.07 per cent of GDP and the majority of that goes to fund arms deals with our 'allies'. That's the real thing that should be getting outcry.” -posted by parmanparman

So...you’re saying God isn’t an American? What’s with all the kids named Jesus then?
posted by Smedleyman at 11:16 AM on October 11, 2006

they're mexicans
posted by matteo at 11:18 AM on October 11, 2006

"God is an American", sang David Bowie.
posted by the Real Dan at 11:37 AM on October 11, 2006

That is one godDAMN scary photo. This article dovetails really nicely w/ the current business section of the NY Times' 4-part special, too. Jesus loves a tax break. God DAMN IT!
Is anyone else bothered by the fact that all this money being directed to the administration's "base," is just another form of graft? ARGH!!!!!!! Motherfucking YES I"M FUCKING BOTHERED BY IT!
posted by DenOfSizer at 11:56 AM on October 11, 2006

Remember when Republicans stood for smaller, less-intrusive government?
posted by ZenMasterThis at 10:02 AM PST

I remember when that was claimed and alot of people believed it. But now the GOP isn't using that mantra much as its harder to believe now.
posted by rough ashlar at 12:11 PM on October 11, 2006

Last time we talked about this, people made the argument, rejected by the Supreme Court, that this violates the Constitution.

Umm, dios... A law might be "facially neutral" with respect to its constitutionality, but may be blatantly unconstitutional in how it is implemented or enforced.
posted by jonp72 at 2:26 PM on October 11, 2006

I dunno. In the short term this stuff really bothers me. But in the long term, churches are going to become more obviosly the businesses that they are and always have been. Fine. Socialism, I mean, "faith-based initiatives" are the new thing. Just get rid of their tax-exempt status so we can make this lunacy as transparent as possible.
posted by bardic at 3:08 PM on October 11, 2006

Are we going to have that discussion again?

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. -- Eccl. 1:9, KJV
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:17 PM on October 11, 2006

You know, I'm gonna go out on a limb, and this may cost me my "lefty" card, but I could care less if a group wants to feed the hungry and also wants to spread a message about "salvation" just so long as the feeding part does not require the listening part. I didn't find anything in that article that lead me to believe that the recipients of the aid were required to participate in the religious ceremonies only that they were offered in addition to the aid.

I'm for feeding hungry people. I'm also in favor of people having the right to speak freely and to freely practice whatever religion they want. So long as the aid money goes to legitimate relief efforts, I could care less if the people delivering the aid are Christians, Jews or Scientologists.
posted by Pollomacho at 6:28 PM on October 11, 2006

so long as the feeding part does not require the listening part. I didn't find anything in that article that lead me to believe that the recipients of the aid were required to participate in the religious ceremonies only that they were offered in addition to the aid.

Actually, that is in the article. And there's no oversight on whether any of these groups are requiring participation or not in the prayer and attempted conversion before giving aid or food or whatever it is.
posted by amberglow at 8:00 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]

Christians received 98.3 percent of all such funds to religious groups

"Such funds" being government monies earmarked for donation to third-world charities?

'cause if that's the case, it's little wonder they get most of the money. They likely outnumber others by 100-to-1.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:24 PM on October 11, 2006

I don't see a way around some religious groups trying to evangelize, but it should be secondary to delivering tangible aid, and participation should be entirely voluntary, and compliance with both conditions should be subject to scrutiny.
posted by owhydididoit at 10:58 PM on October 11, 2006

Considering that about a third of US foreign aid goes to Israel, this should lead to a substantial decrease in the number of practicing Jews on the planet.
posted by UbuRoivas at 11:41 PM on October 11, 2006

from Olbermann last night: ...It wasn't just discrimination against non-Christian charities. (One official who rated grant applications told Kuo, " when I saw one of those non-Christian groups in the set I was reviewing, I just stopped looking at them and gave them a zero…a lot of us did. ")
...
posted by amberglow at 5:52 AM on October 12, 2006

K, that's much worse. Welcome to Bureaucracy Theocracy.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:04 AM on October 12, 2006

You know, Republicans always claimed that more government was bad.

They're just trying to prove it, is all.
posted by Deathalicious at 10:32 AM on October 12, 2006

Pollomacho, I'm with you most of the way. Some of the better NGOs, such as World Vision and Save the Children are, I believe, faith-based, Christian organizations.

But I wonder, I really do. I remember watching the 700 club and seeing Pat Robertson flat out say that saving souls was more important than feeding people. I don't want those kind of people getting government money.
posted by Deathalicious at 10:36 AM on October 12, 2006