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Plane crashes into building in New York on 10/11
October 11, 2006 12:07 PM   Subscribe


 
BBC News
posted by Mwongozi at 12:09 PM on October 11, 2006


I await the collaspe of the interwebs under the strain of frantic 9/11 style clicking.
posted by Artw at 12:10 PM on October 11, 2006


Sounds like a simple helicopter crash.

.
posted by caddis at 12:13 PM on October 11, 2006


Well I guess you had a 50/50 shot at either being reamed as a gigantic ass or being a hero for posting about the next end of the world first. Not bad odds.
posted by spicynuts at 12:15 PM on October 11, 2006


Please delete my post if it is, in fact, worthless newsfilter. I just read that three buildings were on fire, and, well, you know.
posted by craniac at 12:15 PM on October 11, 2006


Maybe if we get some scientists in there before it collapses, we can figure out how a fire like this can melt steel.
posted by shownomercy at 12:16 PM on October 11, 2006


Well, hopefully it's an accident. But I can't deny the pit-of-my-stomach fear reaction when I just overheard one co-worker mention it to another.
posted by jonmc at 12:16 PM on October 11, 2006


Yeesh, what the republicans won't do to steal another election.
posted by crunchland at 12:17 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]


I know the connections are obvious: a plane, NYC, a building, but really, A U.S. official told Reuters there was no reason to believe the incident was terrorism-related. Are we going to get this kind of disclaimer about everything now?

'A car crashed into a building. Terrorists not involved'

'Cat stuck in tree. No terror link suspected.'

Are we really that frightened as a people that any time there is some sort of disaster, aircraft related or otherwise, we are going to immediately assume it was terrorists and have to be consoled later that is was just fate or bad luck?

Becuase if so, we are pussies.
posted by quin at 12:17 PM on October 11, 2006 [2 favorites]


Video from the scene showed at least three buildings apartments in the high-rise engulfed in flames.CNN
posted by sequential at 12:18 PM on October 11, 2006


10/11, never forget.
posted by klangklangston at 12:18 PM on October 11, 2006


I'm watching the Yahoo/ABC News 300kbps LIVE VIDEO stream of what is apparently a white-out blizzard.
posted by smackfu at 12:18 PM on October 11, 2006


October surprise!
posted by thirteenkiller at 12:18 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]


This cannot fail to remind us all of the brave Americans who perished in the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire.
posted by sonofsamiam at 12:19 PM on October 11, 2006


"Witnesses told the Associated Press news agency the crash caused a loud noise..."
posted by smackfu at 12:19 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]


On post: that was not directed at you in any way jonmc.
posted by quin at 12:19 PM on October 11, 2006


Crash make loud noise? How?
posted by Mister_A at 12:20 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]




???

!!!
posted by prostyle at 12:20 PM on October 11, 2006


i'm in yr pipes laggin yr pr0n
posted by loquacious at 12:20 PM on October 11, 2006 [2 favorites]


Are we going to get this kind of disclaimer about everything now?

Yes. The terrorists are attacking us by hanging themselves -- we can never be too careful.
posted by aaronetc at 12:21 PM on October 11, 2006


Maybe if we get some scientists in there before it collapses, we can figure out how a fire like this can melt steel.

LOL.

(But seriously, probably any fuel can cause a fire hot enough to melt steel, if you it has enough oxygen)
posted by delmoi at 12:22 PM on October 11, 2006


Is it just me or are helicopters the must dangerous fucking vehicles ever invented? It seemed like Helicopter crashes were the number one cause of U.S. casualties in Afghanistan for the first couple years, for example.
posted by delmoi at 12:23 PM on October 11, 2006


Is there anything of note near the location?

OMG, they're coming for John Jay Park!!!!
posted by aaronetc at 12:23 PM on October 11, 2006


must most. Excuse me.
posted by delmoi at 12:24 PM on October 11, 2006


Is there anything of note near the location?
Some tennis courts. ...wait, tennis courts? No, you bastards! Let's roll!
posted by owenkun at 12:24 PM on October 11, 2006


Name: keswick, damn.
Homepage URL: http...
Location: NorCal (NY sucks)
Latitude/Longitude: 39.72907665, -121.838706


No, YOU suck.

Newsfilter, OK. No need to panick, OK.

Would you act the same if a plane hit your NorCal, you shithead?
posted by carmina at 12:24 PM on October 11, 2006 [2 favorites]


Quin- Read the comments above. No one is 'assuming' anything yet. But it's not every day aircraft crash into buildings in NYC. Could be an accident. Could be terrorism. We'll see.

Plus, what reason do we have to believe that an unnamed "U.S. official" is providing accurate information?
posted by dudeman at 12:24 PM on October 11, 2006


I grieve for the heroic socialites and candy-bar-fortune heiresses who may have been killed or inconvenienced.
posted by Mister_A at 12:24 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]


CNN can't decide if it was a helicopter or airplane.
posted by ColdChef at 12:25 PM on October 11, 2006


Relax, people, it's all just a promotion for 30 Rock. Tina Fey will stop at nothing. NOTHING.
posted by bondcliff at 12:25 PM on October 11, 2006


The building hit is actually this one. (Google Maps)
posted by Mwongozi at 12:26 PM on October 11, 2006


Mister_A, not all the wealthy people who live on the UES are heiresses and socialites. Asshole.

And these punks are a month late. And what's with the number '11'?
posted by nixerman at 12:28 PM on October 11, 2006


Plane/helicopter??? Isn't that an autogyro??
posted by djrock3k at 12:29 PM on October 11, 2006 [2 favorites]


This looks similar to the 1945 incident when a plane crashed into the Empire State Building. That was due to pilot error and poor visibility. I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened today.
posted by jonp72 at 12:29 PM on October 11, 2006


Photos starting to appear on flickr.
posted by vacapinta at 12:29 PM on October 11, 2006


double
posted by mazola at 12:29 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]


Now I know that evil fucker Bill Clinton had something to do with this. Damn lib'ruls

</foxnews>
posted by eyeballkid at 12:29 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]


Nixerman, I think we agree on this though: Anyone who has died in New York or elsewhere recently is certainly a hero, unless they are Iraqi.
posted by Mister_A at 12:30 PM on October 11, 2006


carmina: the NY sucks thing is a reaction against New Yorkers who think NYC is the center of the universe. I know it's a lot of fun to get hysterical, but give me a break, you crazed shrew.
posted by keswick at 12:30 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]


Would you act the same if a plane hit your NorCal, you shithead?

I had my Norcal removed. It was expensive, but worth it.
posted by Kwantsar at 12:31 PM on October 11, 2006


CNN reporting that NORAD is scrambling jets to patrol major American cities.
posted by ColdChef at 12:33 PM on October 11, 2006


CNN's link to video is kind of unusual. "Watch the orange flames ravage the apartment"

I am watching. The flames are indeed orange. I can only assume they are ravaging.
posted by Brainy at 12:35 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]


Isn't this like the second or third plane to go down in the NYC area SINCE nine_eleven?
posted by ernie at 12:35 PM on October 11, 2006


More terra up in this piece...
posted by Mister_A at 12:36 PM on October 11, 2006


Remarkable the level of assholery in this thread. People likely died. This is really, really shitty.
posted by fet at 12:36 PM on October 11, 2006


"Crash make loud noise? How?"

Usually by yelling, but sometimes I fart.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:36 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]


Live RealVideo from the BBC
posted by Mwongozi at 12:36 PM on October 11, 2006


Is there anything of note near the location?

New York Presbyterian's campus - which includes the Cornell Medical College, where I work - is within a three block radius. Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center and Rockefeller University are another block down.

The scene is sort of surreal. Everyone has been out on the sidewalks, just sort of looking up and wondering what the hell happened. (You can't see the fire from the street side, only the smoke.) Lots of people with cameras and cameraphones (myself included), lots of people on cell phones (circuits are jammed). Big convoys of police, fire, ambulance, city emergency response, etc.

The smoke is unavoidable and I can't get the smell out of my nostrils.

Just in case anyone wanted to know. Everyone can feel free to return to sniping about where the center of the universe is.
posted by Remy at 12:37 PM on October 11, 2006


10/11, never forget.
I'm staying in bed on the 11th of November.
posted by TheDonF at 12:39 PM on October 11, 2006


fet: do yourself a favor and never visit the Something Awful forums, k?
posted by keswick at 12:39 PM on October 11, 2006


Apparently people are trapped
posted by thirteenkiller at 12:40 PM on October 11, 2006


As unfortunate as it is, this should serve to demonstrate that you can indeed use a $50,000+ vehicle, months of training and licensing combined with the willingness to sacrifice your own life in order to get a result you'd otherwise have to use two gallons of gasoline and a match to achieve.

However I'm instead sure we'll hear this is a good reason to add even more moronic restrictions onto general aviation.
posted by phearlez at 12:40 PM on October 11, 2006


If anyone's first thought is "terrorists!" and not "small aircraft, bad weather, poor visibility," I think it's safe to say that the WTC attack was an unmitigated success.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:40 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]


The address of the building is 524 E. 72nd Street — a 50-story condominium tower built in 1986 and located nearby Sotheby's Auction House. It has 183 apartments, many of which sell for more than $1 million.
posted by thirteenkiller at 12:40 PM on October 11, 2006


Seconding the "lots of smoke" thing. I work at Sloan-Kettering, and outside, a lot of folks are just sorta standing around, staring up. It smells bad.
posted by Greg Nog at 12:42 PM on October 11, 2006


That’s some bad pilot.
*goes back to reading my pet goat*
posted by Smedleyman at 12:42 PM on October 11, 2006 [2 favorites]


If anyone's first thought is "terrorists!" and not "small aircraft, bad weather, poor visibility," I think it's safe to say that the WTC attack was an unmitigated success.

Um, more like that involuntary back-of-your-mind what if? which can't be easily dismissed with a 'can't happen here," since, well, it did.
posted by jonmc at 12:43 PM on October 11, 2006


I grieve for the heroic socialites and candy-bar-fortune heiresses who may have been killed or inconvenienced.
posted by Mister_A at 12:24 PM PST on October 11 [+] [!]


Uh... bad taste, man. Seriously
posted by Stauf at 12:44 PM on October 11, 2006


Everyone has been out on the sidewalks, just sort of looking up and wondering what the hell happened.

Brilliant.
posted by spicynuts at 12:44 PM on October 11, 2006


I am a crazed shrew because a plane/helicopter hit a building near my neighborhood where my kids live? Huh? Man, you are a bigot, alright. Mister_A, I am not a socialite or a candy-bar-heiress, either. And far from an Iraqi hater.

There are probably people hurt in there. Do you care about that? yuck!
posted by carmina at 12:45 PM on October 11, 2006


If anyone's first thought is "terrorists!" and not "small aircraft, bad weather, poor visibility," I think it's safe to say that the WTC attack was an unmitigated success.

The purpose of the attack was go goad the US into a war with all of Islam, uniting the region into a new caliphate, and toppling the secular governments. Seems to have been on track to succeed for a while.

I'm sure it was an accident, anyway.
posted by delmoi at 12:45 PM on October 11, 2006


Better we should react like this to whispers of "terror"?
posted by Mister_A at 12:46 PM on October 11, 2006


If anyone's first thought is "terrorists!" and not "small aircraft, bad weather, poor visibility,"...

It doesn't help that Yahoo's one line headline was "Plane crashes into Manhattan building." (Now changed to "Small aircraft hits Manhattan building.")
posted by smackfu at 12:46 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]


I live in the landing path for Bradley International aiport, which happens to have an ANG base that regularly flies some of its aircraft, notably the A-10s. Within minutes of my last comment, I heard a chopper in the air. Unusual, but not unheard of. While outside trying to visually identify the craft - it is unusual enough that I'd want to see it - I saw a commercial airliner flying the wrong direction in the landing path. Since then, all landing traffic that normally goes right over head seems to be following an entirely different route. I can hear the engines, but not from the directions I have been hearing over the past 8 years.

Sure enough, NORAD has scrambled fighters and I suspect there's some redirection of traffic going on.
posted by sequential at 12:46 PM on October 11, 2006


question for pilots: how does a small aircraft go off-course so badly?
posted by docpops at 12:49 PM on October 11, 2006


I've been listening to the sirens for a good hour now.
craptastic.

I've always like York Ave, though.
pretty.

also, I hope the apts weren't occupied, and damage is confined to material goods only.
posted by Busithoth at 12:50 PM on October 11, 2006


Cui bono?

(Someone had to ask.)
posted by sour cream at 12:52 PM on October 11, 2006


Although two people are reported dead, at this early stage it appears neither is Bono
posted by thirteenkiller at 12:54 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]


An accident? Before WTC, the only NYC plane-skyscraper collision was in the 1940s. Out-of-towners may think this kind of wacky thing happens every day in the big city. But it doesn't. For that reason alone, the incident is worthy of note.
posted by Faze at 12:54 PM on October 11, 2006


Better we should react like this to whispers of "terror"?

No, but not acting like an utter prick would be a good idea as well.
posted by jonmc at 12:54 PM on October 11, 2006


The visibility was fine when I went out for lunch around east 23rd street. There's definitely an electricity running through the office I work at.
posted by Skygazer at 12:55 PM on October 11, 2006


Even though this is apparently not a terrorist attack, the local responses and comments are about 300x more useful than whatever CNN is putting up (is it a helicopter? is it a plane?). So the responses, (aside from the moronic, hateful snarkiness) really are the best of the web, in that limited sense. Regardless, if the information in this thread is a meaningless digression from the stated purpose of mefi, please kill the thread.

Then we can get back to those elephant posts.
posted by craniac at 12:56 PM on October 11, 2006


Better we should react like this to whispers of "terror"?
posted by Mister_A at 12:46 PM PST on October 11 [+] [!]


False dichotomy.
posted by Stauf at 12:56 PM on October 11, 2006


at this early stage it appears neither is Bono

more bad news :(
posted by sonofsamiam at 12:56 PM on October 11, 2006


how does a small aircraft go off-course so badly?

if something goes wrong with the engines or something else ... it's not like one gets to pull over on the side of the road, right?

it's certainly unfortunate
posted by pyramid termite at 12:57 PM on October 11, 2006


uncleozzy: "If anyone's first thought is "terrorists!" and not "small aircraft, bad weather, poor visibility," I think it's safe to say that the WTC attack was an unmitigated success."

Those hateful bastards. Pity us, the poor people who must live in this post-apocalyptic nightmare-world where airplanes crashing into buildings are associated with a particularly spectacular case of an airplane crashing into a building. Since this is what the terrorists wanted-- to advertise how adept they are at crashing airplanes into buildings, and to remind us of it forever-- they have clearly won.

The phrase "...then the terrorists have already won" might have some use in some kind of context somewhere, but by using it here, you're helping to completely empty it of meaning.
posted by koeselitz at 12:57 PM on October 11, 2006


How is two people dying in an airplane crash more worthy of a FPP than two people dying in a car crash?
posted by keswick at 12:58 PM on October 11, 2006


As for off course, its probably due to the inclement weather which likely caused a barometer drop that threw off his altimeter, as I'm hearing. But I'm guessing he may have been an idiot, flying anywhere under 1K feet anywhere within miles of Manhattan.

I just got back from my daily run up/down the Hudson, and saw a few F-16s over the city. I've only seen that a few times before, and it is fucking freaky.
posted by allkindsoftime at 12:58 PM on October 11, 2006


I'm glad that non-New Yorkers have reached the place where you can all act like assholes and make jokes about this and make fun of people who get alarmed by planes flying into buildings. That's good for the national healing.

However, I can assure you that this shit still isn't very funny here in New York. There is definitely a big chill in the air around here, and I'm over 70 blocks away.

Even if it isn't terrorism-related, the fact that it is still even possible for this to happen is scary.
posted by ChasFile at 1:01 PM on October 11, 2006


This typo at CNN certainly doesn't clarify things. The front page currently reads "Planes crashes into N.Y. building."

Planes? I guess the copyeditor had some sort of 9/11 freudian slip.
posted by SassHat at 1:01 PM on October 11, 2006


Seriously--could this be the long anticipated October Surprise?
posted by saulgoodman at 1:02 PM on October 11, 2006


I have to say, I've been watching CNN since the FPP on this report came up, and the CNN coverage is remarkably non-hysterical.

I'm sure this will change in the coming days as we get into analyzing the response and "what this means" and so on, but they have done a good job of sticking to the facts. Just wanted to say that, because everyone rips into the media when they do something wrong, I think they've handled this well so far.
posted by Brian James at 1:02 PM on October 11, 2006


keswick...when's the last time an airplane hit a building in Manhattan (the United States, even) and there *wasn't* some kind of FPP about it?
posted by allkindsoftime at 1:02 PM on October 11, 2006


Skygazer, have you looked outside lately?
posted by dame at 1:03 PM on October 11, 2006


if something goes wrong with the engines or something else ... it's not like one gets to pull over on the side of the road, right?


Sure, but would one not be better off trying to ditch into the water as opposed to flying through the middle of a city?
posted by docpops at 1:03 PM on October 11, 2006


Has anyone written 10.11.06 and turned it upside down?

Anyway, this is all strange, my girlfriend lives just couple blocks away (avenue blocks at least). Everything is fine, but a little unsettling.
posted by kingfisher, his musclebound cat at 1:03 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]


One of my friends in the area said she saw a piece of something in a tree that looked like a wing, so I'm guessing its a plane of some sort.
posted by allkindsoftime at 1:04 PM on October 11, 2006


And these punks are a month late. And what's with the number '11'?

11 is the new 13.
posted by Tube at 1:04 PM on October 11, 2006


I still notice when I happen to see an airliner flying over Manhattan. I guess that's what happens when you: watch thousands of your fellow human beings die in the blink of an eye; live with the resulting sights and smells for months; hear military aircraft patrolling over your home day and night; have the military deployed in your city with automatic weapons; see people everywhere openly weeping whenever a firetruck drove past; subjcted to bomb-sniffing dogs and metal detectors to get into work as well as a million other, smaller aftereffects like intermittant or nonexistant phone/television/internet signal for weeks.

I am in no way afraid and fairly sure this was an accident, and I'm not trying to be melodramatic, but these (as well as many others unmentioned here) were real and really traumatic events for an entire metropolitan area which continue to reverberate today, and not just another of GWB's catch phrases ("The terraists have won," etc). Assholes taking this opportunity for sniping at NYers who might overreact or feel the slightest bit of fear should really go find another thread to, well, be assholes in.

Not to mention at least one person is dead...
posted by nevercalm at 1:04 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]


How is two people dying in an airplane crash more worthy of a FPP than two people dying in a car crash?

If that car happened to be flying through the air hundreds of feet above ground when it happened to crash into the side of an apartment building and then fall crashing to the ground on top of freaked out people in a city where people are constantly freaked out and waiting/expecting/worrying/freaking out about another "attack" (of any sort, terrorist, accidental, anything) because they're all still half shell-shocked from a prior incident, then, yeah, maybe that post about 2 people dying in a car crash would be FPP worthy, too.

I'm in Delaware right now - I was about to drive back into NYC today but I'm glad I didn't because I'd be suffering the most nightmarish panic attacks.
posted by SmileyChewtrain at 1:04 PM on October 11, 2006


I am a crazed shrew because a plane/helicopter hit a building near my neighborhood where my kids live? Huh? Man, you are a bigot, alright. Mister_A, I am not a socialite or a candy-bar-heiress, either. And far from an Iraqi hater.

There are probably people hurt in there. Do you care about that? yuck!


Let me ask you something; do you react like this when it's someone else's kids in someone else's city/state/country?

It's not a lack of caring any more than the average new yorker cares about the same incident elsewhere. People only react to what happens to or near them (as you're displaying now).
posted by dflemingdotorg at 1:05 PM on October 11, 2006


uncleozzy : If anyone's first thought is "terrorists!" and not "small aircraft, bad weather, poor visibility," I think it's safe to say that the WTC attack was an unmitigated success.

Exactly. The problem with qualifying every disaster with "it wasn't terrorist related" just demonstrates that the terrorists are, in fact, winning.

I mean that with no hyperbole. Every time we equate a disaster with terrorist activity (even in denying they are connected), the terrorists are succeeding. Because, their job, by definition is to terrorize. If every bad thing that happens might have been related to the terrorists, then they have effectively become the boogie man.

We need to stop being so damn afraid of everything and move on with our lives.
posted by quin at 1:05 PM on October 11, 2006


keswick, you can argue that this isn't FPP-worthy all you want, but please be so disingenuous as to pretend that an aircraft crashing into a building in a major city is as uneventful as a car accident.
posted by Stauf at 1:06 PM on October 11, 2006


I'm sure this will change in the coming days as we get into analyzing the response and "what this means" and so on,

what could it "mean"? ... airplanes, if handled poorly, or defective in some way, crash into things and bad things happen

so, what else could this "mean"?
posted by pyramid termite at 1:07 PM on October 11, 2006


But I'm guessing he may have been an idiot, flying anywhere under 1K feet anywhere within miles of Manhattan.

There is (was, at least, been awhile since I've flown it) a sight-rules corridor running up and down the Hudson River that small general aviation aircraft, often taking off from Westchester Airport, could use for Manhattan sight seeing. You were basically allowed to fly wherever you wanted within that corridor without filing a flight plan, without being in contact with aircraft control, without even having your transponder on, provided you stayed beneath 1,100 feet, where the corridor ended.

So anyway, being under 1K feet was basically a requirement if you fly anywhere within miles of Manhattan. Especially if you didn't wnat to collide with a jetliner.
posted by ChasFile at 1:07 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]


Metatalk.
posted by nixerman at 1:08 PM on October 11, 2006


Has anyone written 10.11.06 and turned it upside down?

kingfisher, that is just way clever. Thanks. Just sayin'
posted by hal9k at 1:09 PM on October 11, 2006


kingfisher, his musclebound cat : Has anyone written 10.11.06 and turned it upside down?

That is freakin' awesome. You just blew the minds of several of my co-workers.

I salute you!
posted by quin at 1:10 PM on October 11, 2006


Even if it isn't terrorism-related, the fact that it is still even possible for this to happen is scary.

Why is that scary? I watch the small planes and helicopters go up and down the westside all day long from my office in Hoboken. On any given day there is always a chance that one of them may have mechanical failures, pilot error, pilot heart attack, collision, ANYTHING. Last year two helicopters crashed into the east river. Also a news helicopter crash landed on a roof top in Brooklyn. It's ALWAYS possible for an accident like this to happen and the fact that there are tall buildings around to my mind doesn't make it any scarier than all the people that get killed on Queens Blvd or the LIE every weekend.
posted by spicynuts at 1:11 PM on October 11, 2006


It's not a false dichotomy - dichotomy indicates that I presented it as an either/or situation, which I did not. This is not a dichotomy of any sort. There's a broad spectrum of possible responses to this sort of thing, and my response is to say, "stop being ridiculous".

Since 9/11/01, everyone in uniform or who dies at the hand of a terrorist is a hero; every muslim is a terrorist; anything funky with planes is 9/11 all over again. We've become the United States of 9/11 and it's fricking ridiculous, not to mention dangerous.
posted by Mister_A at 1:12 PM on October 11, 2006


One story on MSNBC says the plane turned sharply into the building. Reminds me a bit of what happened in Tampa a few years ago.
posted by caddis at 1:12 PM on October 11, 2006



posted by snofoam at 1:12 PM on October 11, 2006


quin writes "The problem with qualifying every disaster with 'it wasn't terrorist related' just demonstrates that the terrorists are, in fact, winning."

Well, I don't know about "every disaster", but a plane flying into the side of a building in Manhattan? Seems like this might be the appropriate circumstance for this particular qualification....
posted by mr_roboto at 1:12 PM on October 11, 2006


Has anyone written 10.11.06 and turned it upside down?

I don't get it. :(
posted by thirteenkiller at 1:13 PM on October 11, 2006


Awww shit. This means we have to invade Iran now.
posted by zorro astor at 1:13 PM on October 11, 2006


quin: "Exactly. The problem with qualifying every disaster with "it wasn't terrorist related" just demonstrates that the terrorists are, in fact, winning."

Nobody's been fearful freaked out in this thread. Unless 'winning' means 'associating themselves historically with a particular attack,' then you're dead wrong. In the same way, nobody'd be 'winning' if there was an explosion in a bus on the Gaza Strip and the authorities said that it 'wasn't terrorist-related;' it makes sense to make a logical connection there, and it's good that they say something so that nobody leaps to conclusions.

Jesus, calm down. Nobody's giving aid and comfort to scoundrels just by wondering what it's natural to wonder.
posted by koeselitz at 1:13 PM on October 11, 2006


Also, all the hysterical New Yorkers aren't the only ones. Some of have taken the defense of refusing to be scared.
posted by dame at 1:13 PM on October 11, 2006


I have a good friend who lives a block away from this. I agree that some New Yorkers have a bad attitude in thinking that they live in the centre of the universe, but still people died here folks.
posted by ob at 1:14 PM on October 11, 2006


Sure, but would one not be better off trying to ditch into the water as opposed to flying through the middle of a city?

Perhaps the pilot was incapacitated. Or maybe some nut just crashed into his ex-wife's apartment. Or the engine quit and the pilot didn't do The Right Thing and stalled the plane while trying to turn towards a landing spot. That's a pretty common occurance.

It's pretty tough to just go "off course" and crash into a building, though it could happen.

I was under the impression small planes wern't allowed to fly over the city since 9/11.
posted by bondcliff at 1:14 PM on October 11, 2006


Oh I get it.
posted by thirteenkiller at 1:14 PM on October 11, 2006


Has anyone written 10.11.06 and turned it upside down?

What the hell happened on 90/11/01 ?
posted by ernie at 1:15 PM on October 11, 2006


This is about 20 blocks from my office. Here are two photos I took on my cameraphone shortly after the crash. The little specks in the sky are helicopters that were apparently dispatched to check out the scene. There are still several helicopters around the area now.

A few people in my office heard it, but thought it was thunder. I didn't hear anything, or if I did I ignored it as normal city noise.

Not surprisingly, there has been a big spike in siren activity over the last hour.
posted by brain_drain at 1:15 PM on October 11, 2006


Kingfisher, little bit tinfoil hat, isn't it? Especially since it's 90.11.01
posted by craven_morhead at 1:16 PM on October 11, 2006


Even if it isn't terrorism-related, the fact that it is still even possible for this to happen is scary.

Why is that scary?


I know. The rational part of me says "there are lots of aircraft that need to and should fly at low altitudes around Manhattan." The rational part says "it was bound to happen again sooner or later."

But alot of the people around here are pretty scared, and fear is pretty contagious. And bear in mind I poseted that like 5 minutes after I heard and also said that in reaction to people who were being assholes.

So ok, I take that back.
posted by ChasFile at 1:18 PM on October 11, 2006


CNN's headline: "Plane hits N.Y. high-rise; sparks death, fear, fire"
posted by tpl1212 at 1:19 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]


I just got back from my daily run up/down the Hudson, and saw a few F-16s over the city. I've only seen that a few times before, and it is fucking freaky.
posted by allkindsoftime at 3:58 PM EST on October 11 [+] [!]



Well it depends on the context. I'm a huge geek when it comes to fighter planes. Usually I'm thrilled. There were three times I was distinctly unthrilled. First was 9/11 of course, with F-15's wheeling across the sky, the buildings gone and burning and every churchbell in Brooklyn ringing. Second time was the July 4th of 2002, just before the Macy's fireworks when an F-117 Stealth fighter flew low and menacing up the East River (that is a scary ass oppressive totaltarian mofo of a plane), third time was when Bush gave his speech at the RNC for 2004. The very minute he began speaking, two F-16's went over low and loud and fast and there was no question what they were saying to New York. (I think it was an F.U. to all the protests going on...but maybe not)


Skygazer, have you looked outside lately?
posted by dame at 4:03 PM EST on October 11 [+] [!]


Nope. Going out for a smoke now. Getting stuffy in here.
posted by Skygazer at 1:21 PM on October 11, 2006


There is (was, at least, been awhile since I've flown it) a sight-rules corridor running up and down the Hudson River that small general aviation aircraft, often taking off from Westchester Airport, could use for Manhattan sight seeing. You were basically allowed to fly wherever you wanted within that corridor without filing a flight plan, without being in contact with aircraft control, without even having your transponder on, provided you stayed beneath 1,100 feet, where the corridor ended.

This is really interesting, ChasFile, thanks. At least it provides a possible answer to that initial "well, if it's not a helicopter, what was it doing up there?" feeling...
posted by lampoil at 1:22 PM on October 11, 2006


It's not a false dichotomy - dichotomy indicates that I presented it as an either/or situation, which I did not.

Yes you did. Either that or you certainly did a poor job of conveying otherwise, huh? You're previous response:

Better we should react like this to whispers of "terror"?
posted by Mister_A at 12:46 PM PST on October 11 [+] [!]


And you're telling me that doesn't present a false dichotomy by implying that if we don't act like however your saying we should be acting that we may as well be stamped eachother to death. Seriously, why bring that up such a ridiculously extreme reaction and say "oh better we act like this then"?

Seriously, how about just not acting like an asshole when you don't have to. Pretty simple, huh? See it's really easy. You can start by not insulting or making light of potential casualties.
posted by Stauf at 1:22 PM on October 11, 2006


It's not a false dichotomy - dichotomy indicates that I presented it as an either/or situation, which I did not.

Yes you did. Either that or you certainly did a poor job of conveying otherwise, huh? You're previous response:

Better we should react like this to whispers of "terror"?
posted by Mister_A at 12:46 PM PST on October 11 [+] [!]


And you're telling me that doesn't present a false dichotomy by implying that if we don't act like however your saying we should be acting that we may as well be stamped eachother to death. Seriously, why bring that up such a ridiculously extreme reaction and say "oh better we act like this then"?

Seriously, how about just not acting like an asshole when you don't have to. Pretty simple, huh? See it's really easy. You can start by not insulting or making light of potential casualties.
posted by Stauf at 1:22 PM on October 11, 2006


Oops, sorry for the double.
posted by Stauf at 1:23 PM on October 11, 2006


BBC News:
"The New York Fire Department said the aircraft struck the 20th floor of a building on East 72nd Street and York Avenue - identified as the Belaire, a prestigious 50-storey residential tower."
posted by reklaw at 1:23 PM on October 11, 2006


Ok, So I live and work a block away

First off, to all of you cheering the destruction of rich socialites, this neighborhood is predominantly Cornell Med, New York Presbyterian, Sloan Kettering and Rockefeller.

So thanks for your compassion assholes

Second, scene on the ground is pretty calm. They just sent us home but seems like there's not going to be much fallout
posted by slapshot57 at 1:24 PM on October 11, 2006


Listen to operations on the FDNY Manhattan fire frequency here.
posted by mlis at 1:25 PM on October 11, 2006


Cribbing from Gothamist:

Alex Wallace, who is a VP at NBC News and happened to be dropping off her child in the area, had originally thought it was a helicopter because of the piece of aircraft that fell. She described to WNBC that it looked like the plane made a turn and seemed to make a nosedive into the side of the building. WNBC's Tim Minton mentioned a witness who said it seemed like a plane had been doing "tricks" in the air.

A total of four people have been confirmed dead - two people from the plane, two people from the building. Additionally, the aircraft was a Cirrus 20, which supposedly has a parachute for emergencies. (When we thought that type of plane sounded familiar, it was because the owner of Kartell died in a Cirrus SR20 last month.)
posted by Remy at 1:28 PM on October 11, 2006


But it does happen. Shortly after 9/11 there was a GA flight that smacked into a building in the Tampa, FL area. There's a lot of GA planes in the air, some accidents are inevitable. Even my dad's little two-seater homebuild has an autopilot, so it's not impossible for someone to set it and not pay attention for a million different reasons.

What the average little GA plane doesn't have that a commercial aviation flight DOES is a dozen different systems designed to scream bloody murder about proximity to other objects. Making this kind of thing more possible, though the nature of GA makes it less likely.
posted by phearlez at 1:28 PM on October 11, 2006


What is this doing to private flights out of nyc?
posted by geoff. at 1:29 PM on October 11, 2006


it's not a lack of caring any more than the average new yorker cares about the same incident elsewhere. People only react to what happens to or near them (as you're displaying now).
posted by dflemingdotorg at 4:05 PM EST on October 11 [+] [!]


My reaction was towards those who are mocking NYers. If that happened elsewhere and somebody was an asshat, I would react the same. I evoked my personal situation to show that real people like all of you live in NY. The average NYer is a fine person. Visit sometime. It will help you get over it, already.
posted by carmina at 1:30 PM on October 11, 2006


slapshot57: Which of the buildings do you work in that sent home early?

(I work in the IT department for WMC.)
posted by Remy at 1:31 PM on October 11, 2006


live news feed on cbsnews.com just reported that there were no major injuries in the apartment and that no one on the ground was hurt
posted by pyramid termite at 1:32 PM on October 11, 2006


Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the plane that hit the building in Tampa intentionally piloted into it by a teenager? Not an 'accident' exactly.
posted by fet at 1:32 PM on October 11, 2006


Next up - 11/11!
posted by CynicalKnight at 1:34 PM on October 11, 2006


fearfilter
posted by shakespeherian at 1:34 PM on October 11, 2006


MetaFilter: death, fear, fire
posted by sveskemus at 1:36 PM on October 11, 2006


When do we get some real facts about this, is what I'm wondering? Why hasn't anyone yet been able to say who the plane belonged to, who it was chartered to, who piloted it, who gave it clearance, etc. It seems to me that basic information like that should be immediately forthcoming, in light of all the flight control and general air space security improvements since 9/11. There have been plenty of improvements in those areas, right?
posted by saulgoodman at 1:38 PM on October 11, 2006


yankee pitcher corey lidle (sp?) is the registered owner of the plane??
posted by pyramid termite at 1:38 PM on October 11, 2006


(cbsnews.com has live news feed from channel 2 in nyc)
posted by pyramid termite at 1:40 PM on October 11, 2006


I didn't get any meaning out of it, just thought it was peculiarly close. And yeah it's 90, but I am not going to be here 2060.
posted by kingfisher, his musclebound cat at 1:40 PM on October 11, 2006


fet, yeah, according to wikipedia, it was ruled most likely a suicide; though a note was supposedly found that showed that the teenager supported OBL.
posted by Stauf at 1:41 PM on October 11, 2006


>10/11, never forget.

I'm staying in bed on the 11th of November.

Isn't it the Fifth of November we're supposed to remember?
posted by Neiltupper at 1:45 PM on October 11, 2006


yankee pitcher corey lidle (sp?) is the registered owner of the plane??

CNN is indeed reporting that the plane is registered to Cory Lidle.
posted by ericb at 1:49 PM on October 11, 2006


CNN is confirming that it's Yankee pitcher Corey Liddle's plane and he was the pilot.
posted by ramix at 1:50 PM on October 11, 2006


saul - the short answer is, the rules are different for GA. Once takeoff clearance is given - which happens at the departing airport and to the best of my knowledge there's no central databasing that goes on for that stuff, certainly not instant - it's possible for a craft to follow a route where they never have to check in with anyone.

As far as 'security improvements,' GA is plenty secure in every important way. A hostile individual has way more capacity and options for lower cost, training and oversight if they use an automobile. Being able to get the kind of answers you're talking about have nothing to do with security and everything to do with accountability. Which may be important but it doesn't prevent people from getting dead.
posted by phearlez at 1:51 PM on October 11, 2006


Remember, remember, the 'leventh of November,
October surprises and plots.
I know of no reason
Not voting this season
Should ever be forgot.
posted by quite unimportant at 1:52 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]


AP just confirmed that a member of the Yankees' organization was one of the 4 people killed in the crash. Plane was registered to Cory Lidle but I guess they can't release the names of who died in the crash just yet.
posted by allkindsoftime at 1:54 PM on October 11, 2006


Lots of links, photos and updates on gothamist.com
posted by Ragma at 1:55 PM on October 11, 2006


NYTimes is reporting Cory Lidle was killed.
posted by nevercalm at 1:56 PM on October 11, 2006


yup--and CNN says he was alone on the plane. Too weird. Suicide?
posted by amberglow at 1:57 PM on October 11, 2006


Or maybe Steinbrenner is picking off Joe Torre supporters one by one?
posted by nevercalm at 1:59 PM on October 11, 2006


A pro baseball player did this? Talk about bizzare. Probably just a mistake, but maybe we'll never know.
posted by delmoi at 2:00 PM on October 11, 2006


indeed
posted by ob at 2:00 PM on October 11, 2006


Good photos here
posted by Ragma at 2:01 PM on October 11, 2006


yeah i just heard that they found Corey Lidle's passport on the street.
posted by teishu at 2:02 PM on October 11, 2006


OK, that's just fucking weird.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 2:03 PM on October 11, 2006


"His passport was found on the street." (from ob's link)

Why does the passport always survive?
posted by dame at 2:03 PM on October 11, 2006


Hunh. My husband works right around the corner and our first though was "real estate bargain!" But we're Mets fans.
posted by DenOfSizer at 2:03 PM on October 11, 2006


Anyone know Lidle's flying skill level?
posted by bob sarabia at 2:04 PM on October 11, 2006


Cirrus SR20
posted by Ragma at 2:04 PM on October 11, 2006


Classy comment, from that gawker link:

"Lidle, really? Maybe he can hit the broad side of a building after all..."
posted by nevercalm at 2:05 PM on October 11, 2006


For those wondering how such a thing can happen, here's a report from 2004 detailing an accident resulting from monoxide poisoning.

The post-accident examination of the engine and airframe revealed multiple cracks in the muffler as a result of undetected oxidation and normal thermal degradation. This allowed exhaust gases direct access to cabin air through the heater system. Toxicological testing of the pilot and passenger revealed carbon monoxide levels of 45% and 46%. Autopsies determined that both men were incapacitated by carbon monoxide and drowned when the plane hit the water.

Given the manifestation of CO poisoning it's just as likely that a pilot could make poor choices and be marginally conscious enough to make jerky last-minute corrections if s/he is in the drowsy stage before passing out. Since the gas is odorless and colorless they might not realize it is happening.

Or they were drunk - seems like almost half of the accident reports on GA News cite alcohol as a factor. Or any number of other things.
posted by phearlez at 2:05 PM on October 11, 2006


Witnesses said he banked sharply and then did a steep dive, which sounds to me like he stalled it. Probably a JFK Jr. type of situation... too much money, not enough experience for the plane he owned. I can't wait until more rich guys own VLJs.

And yes, I'm speculating and it's too early to know, but that's what I'll put my money on.
posted by bondcliff at 2:06 PM on October 11, 2006


Why does the passport always survive?

I guess that's just one of life's little ironies. Like If you look like your passport photo you're too sick to travel...
posted by ob at 2:08 PM on October 11, 2006


So F-16s have been dispatched after the crash, huh? Not exactly a confidence-inspiring response.

Seems apparent that this was an accident, but if it wasn't, it would not have been prevented. What kind of damage would a light aircraft packed with explosives do?

sleep tight! =)
posted by LordSludge at 2:08 PM on October 11, 2006


FAA Registry
Name Inquiry Results

CORY FULTON LIDLE

Address
Street 7824 SUGAR PINE BLVD
City LAKELAND State FLORIDA
County POLK Zip Code 33810-1383
Country UNITED STATES


Medical

Medical Class : Third Medical Date: 11/2005



CertIficates
1 of 1


DOI : 02/09/2006
CertIficate: PRIVATE PILOT
Rating(s):

PRIVATE PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
posted by phearlez at 2:09 PM on October 11, 2006


NBC just said that they were not confirming that corey lidle was dead.
posted by trishthedish at 2:09 PM on October 11, 2006


Wow, way too fucking weird.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 2:10 PM on October 11, 2006




He supposedly had only flown for seven months. I live/work 10 blocks away and heard nothing until numerous rescue vehicles and helicopters arrived.

What's bizarre to me is that they allow planes to fly over the city at those altitudes all. Apparently, they are allowed at that level because the heliport has copters taking off all the time-- but I don't see why small planes should be buzzing our city at all, period.
posted by Maias at 2:10 PM on October 11, 2006


Whoops, sorry - the above is from the FAA site at https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/default.asp

Sure looks like he couldn't possibly have a lot of hours if he was certified just before the season started....
posted by phearlez at 2:12 PM on October 11, 2006


September 8 New York Times article on Cory Lidle and his plane.

Quote:
...Lidle, acquired from the Philadelphia Phillies on July 30, said his plane was safe.

“The whole plane has a parachute on it,” Lidle said. “Ninety-nine percent of pilots that go up never have engine failure, and the 1 percent that do usually land it. But if you’re up in the air and something goes wrong, you pull that parachute, and the whole plane goes down slowly.”
posted by dudeman at 2:15 PM on October 11, 2006


but I don't see why small planes should be buzzing our city at all

A truck buzzing around your city can do a hell of a lot more damage.

The useful load of a small plane is only a few hundred pounds. Add a 200 lb pilot and full fuel tanks and you can't "pack" the plane with explosives. A Ryder truck can hold how many tons?

Yes, if someone sets their mind to it they can do damage with a small plane. The same can be said about just about anything else.
posted by bondcliff at 2:16 PM on October 11, 2006


Posted this on MeTa too, but it's on topic, believe it or not....


NY Times is reporting that Lidle died in the crash.
posted by Mister_A at 2:17 PM on October 11, 2006


Seems apparent that this was an accident, but if it wasn't, it would not have been prevented. What kind of damage would a light aircraft packed with explosives do?

A lot less than my $1000 Ford E-250 truck packed with explosives would do. Which I can put things in and out of in the privacy of my garage (well, I could if it wasn't too tall for my garage...) rather than at the GA airport with all the nosy retirees milling about. Which I got licensed to drive with a lot less time in training and without a medical certificate. Which I can get into and drive away in without going through a specialized clearance over the radio.

If you wanted to cause human damage in NYC you'd be way better off with a rigged van in Times Square on Friday night than with a plane.

For that matter, from the small video I have seen you could have done that amount of damage by going up to that floor in the elevator with a few gallons of gasoline and dumping it out and lighting it up.

SMALL.
PLANES.
ARE.
NOT.
A.
CREDIBLE.
THREAT.
posted by phearlez at 2:18 PM on October 11, 2006


There is (was, at least, been awhile since I've flown it) a sight-rules corridor running up and down the Hudson River that small general aviation aircraft, often taking off from Westchester Airport, could use for Manhattan sight seeing.

This is true--I flew up it about a year ago with my father (small-plane pilot based at Westchester). The route is beautiful. That said, this apartment building is located near the East River, not the Hudson. I think it sounds like a JFK Jr. thing, too, though the weather wasn't too bad when the crash apparently happened. It's possible that the pilot of this plane came out of a low cloud and got confused, though.
posted by CiaoMela at 2:18 PM on October 11, 2006


From the posted thread below the linked photos page:

Not to bring the party down, but from a NYT Sept 06 article about Lidle's plane:

"A player-pilot is still a sensitive topic for the Yankees, whose captain, Thurman Munson, was killed in the crash of a plane he was flying in 1979. Lidle, acquired from the Philadelphia Phillies on July 30, said his plane was safe.

"'The whole plane has a parachute on it,' Lidle said. "Ninety-nine percent of pilots that go up never have engine failure, and the 1 percent that do usually land it. But if you're up in the air and something goes wrong, you pull that parachute, and the whole plane goes down slowly."

posted by docpops at 2:20 PM on October 11, 2006


more info from espn.com.

and:

.
posted by felix betachat at 2:24 PM on October 11, 2006


It's perfectly plausible he was in legal airpsace (the corridor is just over the water) until moments before the crash, which could have been caused by the aforementioned CO poisoning, or a broken flight control. On the other hand, if he was "buzzing" over the island, that is certainly not legal.

The VFR corridor runs up the East river but is blocked by Laguardia's airspace at the north end of Roosevelt Island (adjacent to Manhattan's '80s). I sure hope they don't close the corridor as a result.
posted by maniabug at 2:24 PM on October 11, 2006


SMALL.
PLANES.
ARE.
NOT.
A.
CREDIBLE.
THREAT.


UNLESS
YOU
LIVE
ON
THE
40th
FLOOR
OF
THE
BELAIRE
BUILDING
IN
MANHATTAN
posted by mattbucher at 2:25 PM on October 11, 2006


Man, that article where he talks about how safe his plane is and his instructor saying he was a natural pilot - what a fucking downer.

Bloomberg is addressing the media now.

RIP
posted by bob sarabia at 2:28 PM on October 11, 2006


yankee pitcher corey lidle (sp?) is the registered owner of the plane??

Now we have a FPP!
posted by mazola at 2:28 PM on October 11, 2006


There might have been enough altitude to use the Cirrus' parachute system, but not really if it was a stall/spin. The manufacturer claims to have demonstrated deployment in less than 400 feet from straight-and-level flight, but deployment in a 1-turn spin requires a minimum of 920 feet.
posted by maniabug at 2:28 PM on October 11, 2006


Someone should make a post about this, Mazola.
posted by Mister_A at 2:32 PM on October 11, 2006


10/11/6 is 9/11/01 upside down!
posted by delmoi at 2:32 PM on October 11, 2006 [3 favorites]


mattbucher - well, since the claim is that nobody who wasn't on the plane was injured you could argue even with that.
posted by phearlez at 2:32 PM on October 11, 2006


Welcome to the thread, delmoi.
posted by nevercalm at 2:34 PM on October 11, 2006


Why is a stupid baseball story worthy of a FPP?

/ducks
posted by Mister_A at 2:36 PM on October 11, 2006


Mattbucher, Mayor Bloomie just reported the inhabitants are fine. They had combined several apartments to make just one big one, so perhaps they hadn't even noticed.
posted by DenOfSizer at 2:36 PM on October 11, 2006


Corey Lidle is dead in a plane crash.

What a weird career this guy had, he was branded a scab because he played as a replacement player during the baseball strike (most of the replacements never reached the big leagues - which some players still hold against him and he is one of only a handful of major leaguers not in the players union), journeyed around the big leagues for a while as a borderline talent yet seemed to pitch well since joining the Yankees. I personally though he was going to get a big contract somewhere next year based on a few good weeks in high profile New York..

Sad for his family, I wonder what the reaction in the baseball community will be because he is kind of a black sheep.
posted by Deep Dish at 2:49 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]


So it is not a threat unless you die. Thanks for clearing it up!
posted by mattbucher at 2:52 PM on October 11, 2006


Classy comment, from that gawker link:

"Lidle, really? Maybe he can hit the broad side of a building after all..."


God forgive me, I just cracked up reading that. Sorry, sorry, I know. So wrong.
posted by jokeefe at 2:57 PM on October 11, 2006


10/11/6 is 9/11/01 upside down!

Once as tragedy, second time as farce...
posted by jokeefe at 2:58 PM on October 11, 2006


Man, Lidle must have taken the Tigers loss hard. (Still, go Tiges!)
posted by klangklangston at 3:02 PM on October 11, 2006


coming next on FoxNews: Allah's designated hitter
posted by matteo at 3:02 PM on October 11, 2006


channel 4 (WNBC) is claiming engine failure.
posted by StrasbourgSecaucus at 3:07 PM on October 11, 2006


10/11/6 is 9/11/01 upside down!

Oh man, you are going to get screwed by the Y2.01K bug.
posted by turaho at 3:14 PM on October 11, 2006


From the BBC story:
"The plane was owned by New York Yankees baseball pitcher Cory Lidle. US media reports say he was piloting the plane at the time and died in the crash.
(...)
"The FBI says there is no indication that the crash is terrorism-related.

"A White House spokesman said they were not ruling out any theory."

And keeping their fingers crossed very, very tightly that Lidle converted to Islam and left a stary-eyed video pledging support to Bin Ladin an hour before taking off, no doubt.
posted by Hogshead at 3:15 PM on October 11, 2006


My friend was right across the street when it happened, on the rood of an adjacent building. She said it happened so quickly that even though they had seen it with their own eyes, she and her friends could barely recall what had happened exactly.
posted by cell divide at 3:22 PM on October 11, 2006


"The only thing Cory Lidle wants to do is fly around in his airplane and gamble."

- Arthur Rhodes, champion of the proletariat
posted by mrgrimm at 3:27 PM on October 11, 2006


Terrorists don't kill people, celebrities do!
posted by Artw at 3:31 PM on October 11, 2006


The terrorists Tigers have already won.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 3:51 PM on October 11, 2006


200 !
posted by sgt.serenity at 4:05 PM on October 11, 2006



posted by phaedon at 4:11 PM on October 11, 2006


Not, of course, to imply anything fishy on the part of Bushco but, just yesterday. those idiots were up past their butt cracks in alligators, with more piling on and certain doom just around the corner. Then 9/11 is eerily replicated on 10/11 and they publish the indictment for treason (not done since WWII ) of a notorious “American Taliban”... on the same day?

Carl Rove must be praying to the right God... because it looks like his prayers were answered.
posted by Huplescat at 4:53 PM on October 11, 2006


Carl Rove must be praying to the right God... because it looks like his prayers were answered.

Do you honestly think this accident can eclipse the current climate: North Korea testing nuclear weapons during the Bush administration (i.e. all Clinton's fault) , the "drip-drip-drip" of the Foley scandal (i.e. all Cinton's fault), the reporting of 655,000 Iraqi war deaths, the April NIE report and the revelations by Bob Woodward's "State of Denial?" Hardly, Karl Rove's "October Surprise."
posted by ericb at 5:01 PM on October 11, 2006


Micro-terrorism. It's the future.
posted by cytherea at 5:36 PM on October 11, 2006


I'm staying in bed on the 11th of November.

Sure, in 2010 I think you mean.

This thead makes baby jesus laugh.
posted by oxford blue at 5:39 PM on October 11, 2006


Trivia(l) question: Wasn't this the building where Charlie Sheen's Wall Street character had a penthouse? ISTR it's right in that area and this building was brand new when the movie was made.

When he looked out on the city and said, "What am I?", I was the only one in the theater who laughed out loud.
posted by dhartung at 5:42 PM on October 11, 2006


Even if it isn't terrorism-related, the fact that it is still even possible for this to happen is scary.

You are hoping for a world covered in bubble-wrap, then?

I guess that's what happens when you: watch thousands of your fellow human beings die in the blink of an eye; live with the resulting sights and smells for months; hear military aircraft patrolling over your home day and night; have the military deployed in your city with automatic weapons…

Good to know you’re getting out of the U.S. on occasion.

Seriously, to those few attempting to justify their overreactions with “have some respect – people died!” well expect a bit of taking-the-piss filter when you decide to upgrade every minor accident into a major emotional catastrophe. Have some perspective. Remember (early on!) when Katrina was being called “our tsunami”? If your house burns to the ground with all your stuff in it, it is a tragedy, but calling it your Hiroshima isn’t going to elicit much sympathy, sorry. And if every time you hear a plane overhead you duck, well, that’s human, but considering the state of the rest of the world – some of which your country helped to put into such a fearful state – maybe a little growing up is appropriate. Even living in England for the past several decades you’d be used to the idea that sometimes, somewhere, things go boom and there’s not a whole lot you can do about it.
posted by dreamsign at 6:23 PM on October 11, 2006


Next up on FOXNews, a retrospective of Cory Lidle (D. - NY). He, too, hated our freedoms!!!








posted by ericb at 6:36 PM on October 11, 2006 [1 favorite]


Oh dreamsign, go shit in your hat. You don't know a single thing about me or my feelings about 911. I was simply saying that due to events on that day many in NYC react to seemingly mundane things that others in NoCal might not think about. Notice, you ass, that I did not say anything about Katrina/New Orleans, tsunamis/Indonesia, Hiroshima or IRA bombings in England. In fact, I made no comparisons with world events at all, major or minor. But nice job on writing fuck all in actual response to what's printed right above where you were typing.
posted by nevercalm at 6:37 PM on October 11, 2006


Philip Greenspun (remember him?) wrote a review of the Cirrus in 2005. [via Fark, your source for hard news]

Cirrus SR20 (and a bit about the SR22):

"In terms of avoiding an accident, one problem with the Cirrus is its unforgiving handling compared to other basic four-seaters. The plane is harder to keep level with rudders in a stall than a Cessna or Diamond; if in a deep uncoordinated stall, the Cirrus wants to drop a wing and go into a spin. "

This evokes Bruce Tognazini's analysis of John Denver's fatal crash.
posted by mecran01 at 7:59 PM on October 11, 2006


Nevercalm – appropriate moniker. Did it sound like all of that was directed at you? (way to adopt it and then note it doesn’t apply) I noted that the tendency to react to similarities with traumatic events is only human, after all. The tendency to turn it all into US-centric melodrama, however, is where I say “grow up” and get a little perspective. Aside from those who experienced 9/11 directly, you’re responsible for your own neuroses. The never-leave-home proportion of the U.S. is the very definition of “sheltered”. The English, as one example, had to deal with the threat of random violence for a long time.

You want this thread to stick to conversation appropriate to this event? Then talk to all the terrorist-heads here. GYOSG.
posted by dreamsign at 8:14 PM on October 11, 2006


This thread is not funny, but I'm calling everyone around me a "crazed shrew" from now on. I think I had an aneurysm from that one.
posted by exlotuseater at 8:17 PM on October 11, 2006


The never-leave-home proportion of the U.S. is the very definition of “sheltered”. The English, as one example, had to deal with the threat of random violence for a long time.

*snorts diet-7up all over keyboard*

never been to detroit, have you? ... this is funny ... a canadian lecturing us citizens over how dangerous england is and how "sheltered" we are
posted by pyramid termite at 8:33 PM on October 11, 2006


never been to detroit, have you?

Disingenuous. The subject is, apparently, terrorism. You’re right – we should be talking about highway deaths, workplace accidents, alcohol and tobacco-related diseases, etc, as they all cause more deaths than terrorism, those don’t fit the culture of fear talking points, do they?

a canadian lecturing us citizens over how dangerous england is and how "sheltered" we are

Oh dude, we dream we were powerful enough to topple democracies, support despots and then cry righteous tears when payback comes, I assure you.
posted by dreamsign at 9:30 PM on October 11, 2006


Randomly:

>Is it just me or are helicopters the must dangerous fucking vehicles ever invented?


I played in a band with a guy who was an expert on helicopter tech and he said, quite definitively, yes. Per mile travelled they are the most dangerous form of transport.

I know it's nothing to do with the story, but, you know.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 9:42 PM on October 11, 2006


The subject is, apparently, terrorism.

no, the subject is "ny yankee flies airplane into building"

Oh dude, we dream we were powerful enough to topple democracies

you weren't even powerful enough to keep the expos

but i forget that it's somehow necessary to talk about all the sins of the us whenever something happens and americans die from it ... it's probably all the insight and purpose you can find in today's world ...

you have my pity
posted by pyramid termite at 9:51 PM on October 11, 2006


kingfisher, his musclebound cat : Has anyone written 10.11.06 and turned it upside down?

That is freakin' awesome. You just blew the minds of several of my co-workers.


Wow, they must've had really small minds..
posted by c13 at 10:20 PM on October 11, 2006


no, the subject is "ny yankee flies airplane into building"

that’s kinda my point, thanks

you weren't even powerful enough to keep the expos

Meh. We want the Jets back.

but i forget that it's somehow necessary to talk about all the sins of the us whenever something happens and americans die from it

Riiiiight. Because it’s not connected. They hate your freedom, I forgot. (unless you mean every asshat who steers a car off a road – are we posting all accident threads now, or just the ones that play upon your overwrought fears?)

you have my pity

Too bad you can’t have my peace of mind.
posted by dreamsign at 10:29 PM on October 11, 2006


Look, bring on the potshots if you like. By all means, tell me how not afraid you are, in prose, in poetry, write a sonnet if you like. That's great. Do anything but not actually fixate on this accident like it's more than it is. Just realize that there's a wider world out there having experiences that make your fear seem just a bit hysterical. Get some perspective, man.
posted by dreamsign at 10:36 PM on October 11, 2006


my fear of what? ... do look through this thread and tell me where it is that i expressed fear

and while you're at it, tell me where you expressed anything but smug superiority, irrelevant snarkery and hipster "i'm too COOL to be concerned about other people's worries" blathering ... mixed with the usual thoughtless political wankery

i have perspective ... and in that perspective you're pretty much a nonentity for what you've said ... also, in that perspective, it's just a thread that doesn't interest you on a mere website and you could try ignoring it instead of being obsessive/compulsive about how much you have to express your disdain for it and the people who have posted comments about it

but i guess that wouldn't boost your ego enough, would it?

good night, grumpy
posted by pyramid termite at 11:20 PM on October 11, 2006




i'm too COOL to be concerned about other people's worries

It's "cool" to put local suffering on a par with suffering elsewhere? Oh snap.

good night, grumpy

Night, sweetheart.
posted by dreamsign at 1:45 AM on October 12, 2006


In tangentially related news:

Well-armed Latino mob delays ambush of midwestern entertainment contingent.
posted by Mister_A at 5:08 AM on October 12, 2006


AmbroseChapel writes "I played in a band with a guy who was an expert on helicopter tech and he said, quite definitively, yes. Per mile travelled they are the most dangerous form of transport."

Per mile travelled sure, per hour though the shuttle has helicopters beat six ways from Sunday. Plus one of the reasons for the accidents is much helicopter use is in dangerous situations, search and rescue for example.
posted by Mitheral at 7:04 AM on October 12, 2006




More Yankees aviation news.
posted by horsewithnoname at 5:08 PM on October 13, 2006


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