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Quel horreur...
October 20, 2006 5:12 PM   Subscribe

The French do some things well and, well, some things not so well. (see)
posted by pwedza (23 comments total)

 
pajamasmedia.com? Christ.

In typical conservative fashion, the article doesn't even explain what the dispute was about, was someone sued for calming that a video was fake? The video was widely described as fake? By who? The same lunatics who thought every single photo taken in Lebanon was fake? They have as much credibility as those who claim the moon landing or 9/11 was fake because the pictures don't "look right".
posted by delmoi at 5:23 PM on October 20, 2006


I mean it's amazing, these people just make up 'details' they don't think our right for every single piece of evidence that doesn't fit their world view. It would be pretty embarrassing if I was a conservative or neocon.
posted by delmoi at 5:25 PM on October 20, 2006


It's true unless Israel said it. Then it must be a lie.
posted by Krrrlson at 5:29 PM on October 20, 2006


Indeed - I would like to read a reasonably clear and objective account of that case. A google news search turned up this New Republic article asserting the video was a fake, but nothing really about the French litigation.
posted by exogenous at 5:30 PM on October 20, 2006


Yes, delmoi, the second link assumes the reader knows what the trial was about. It seems that this is the fault of the OP in selecting the article, not the 'conservatism' of the source. Talk about rejecting things out of hand that don't fit your worldview...
posted by Urban Hermit at 5:31 PM on October 20, 2006


Here.
posted by Urban Hermit at 5:35 PM on October 20, 2006


Because no Palestinian kid has been killed by the IDF EVAR.
posted by bardic at 6:07 PM on October 20, 2006


Ah, yes, the horror of zero population growth. In other words, if the population is not increasing, it's doom and gloom time. Because, you know, there can never be too many people.

The terrorists real estate agents have won.
posted by maxwelton at 6:09 PM on October 20, 2006


I think it's more about bankrupting social welfare programs... i.e., if more people are retired than are working, then many social assistance programs would be fucked.
posted by synaesthetichaze at 6:12 PM on October 20, 2006


Sorry, I thought people knew about this case.

Yes Urban Hermit, the second post assumes the reader knows what the trial is about, but I am most definately not rejecting things that don't fit my world view.

This is the Best Account (which I should have posted originally)

And six years of very detailed info. Some in French

The first link is not ironic. I truly admire the possibilities French society gives to families. It is difficult for Americans to imagine not having to calculate the cost of having children. A burden largely avoided in France. (many advantages: women can even have full retirement . paternity leave for the father after the birth of a child, no paying for school EVER - unless the family should choose a private school) You get my point.
A different conception of freedom.

But on the other hand, the state-owned France2 crushing dissent in the highest French court. Ouch...
posted by pwedza at 6:29 PM on October 20, 2006


pwedza, my "rejecting out of hand" remark was aimed not at you, but at delmoi - for knee-jerk hostility to the story just because it came from pajamasmedia. Sorry for the confusion.
posted by Urban Hermit at 6:36 PM on October 20, 2006


Of course I would reject as non-informative (having no truth value) information provided by a company who's founding members continually deny reality.
posted by delmoi at 6:43 PM on October 20, 2006


Of course I would reject... information provided by a company who's founding members continually deny reality refuse to share my partisan view.

I suppose evaluating their arguments on the merits is too much work?
posted by Urban Hermit at 7:03 PM on October 20, 2006


Jesus FHC. Lemme just add to the white noise that is the amalgamation of whatever the f*ck this comment thread is supposed to be talking about.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 10:59 PM on October 20, 2006


Muhamad Al Duras was not killed is a cogent video argument.

The "best account" link is problematic, as it seems to assume that the hoax they see is proven. It's sort of funny that they don't see that they have to come up with strong evidence to prove the hoax, but they're perfectly content with circumstantial evidence and -- here's the kicker -- assuming that because in their minds it is a proven hoax, that France 2 was somehow in on it, because nobody could not have seen the hoax. They also couch their position in millenial terms -- she says that the trial is about "preventing the next genocide of the Jews", which is ridiculous.
posted by dhartung at 11:07 PM on October 20, 2006


pwedza, my "rejecting out of hand" remark was aimed not at you, but at delmoi - for knee-jerk hostility to the story just because it came from pajamasmedia. Sorry for the confusion.
posted by Urban Hermit at 3:36 AM CET on October 21


I guess this comes under the aegis, "even a stopped clock gives the right time twice-a-day."
posted by gsb at 11:21 PM on October 20, 2006


Wow! A discussion about the French and their sometime lack of good judgement: and not a single Jerry Lewis joke. I'm proud of you, Metafilter!
posted by Strawman at 11:42 PM on October 20, 2006


But on the other hand, the state-owned France2 crushing dissent in the highest French court. Ouch...

Next time, learn about the difference between state-owned/controlled media and Public Broadcasting before the stereotypical "omg oppressive commies" knee-jerk.
posted by uncle harold at 2:38 AM on October 21, 2006


a link to a story on pro-family government policy and a link to a alternate-reality Pajamas Media story bashing the French? and the point is?

see, the Freedom Fries thing is so passé, man, time to wake up and smell the blood. and bash the French all you want, they're not the ones running Guantanamo -- for all their Gitanes-smoking and beret-wearing weirdness, they're not a nation of torturers. so the smugness of the post is a bit out of place at this point

even little Joshua Goldberg is more careful, these days
posted by matteo at 4:51 AM on October 21, 2006


Who is Joshua Goldberg?
posted by Kwantsar at 5:33 AM on October 21, 2006


AKA Jabba the Hack.
posted by homunculus at 9:54 AM on October 21, 2006


But on the other hand, the state-owned France2 crushing dissent in the highest French court. Ouch...

Crushing dissent? The WaPo article talks about a symbolic 1€ in damages. That hardly counts as crushing dissent.

Fact is, French libel legislation is quite harsh. Because of this, French media (France2 included) generally know better than to publish damaging allegations without good factual backing. Karsenty apparently did just that, was sued and found guilty. Tough. But it's interesting to note that although this could work both ways, nobody tried to sue Frence 2 for libel...Maybe Karsenty hadn't such a good case after all?

As a rule, European countries are more circumspect regarding freedom of speech than the US. The best example of it are the stringent laws in France and Germany against Holocaust denial. Is that a good thing? We could spend years argueing about that...
posted by Skeptic at 10:07 AM on October 21, 2006


they're not a nation of torturers

No, they're a nation of murderers.
posted by Krrrlson at 10:18 AM on October 21, 2006


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