Do not read in case of attack

October 21, 2006 11:13 AM

Old textbooks proposed as protective shields. One political candidate's idea is to reissue outdated textbooks and place them under desks so that students can use them defensively when a shooter opens fire. They actually stop most handgun bullets, although raise the specter of a passive bystander society.
posted by Brian B. (67 comments total)

Why not issue King James Bibles for that extra divine stopping power?
posted by Krrrlson at 11:20 AM on October 21, 2006 [2 favorites]

Oh, Jesus, please tell me the other candidate is saner than this. What are the odds of a terrified kid being able to put up a thick enough book in just the right spot? How about taking the guns away from the certified insane? Yes, I know. Some of these shooters wouldn't be headed off. .But it would be a starting point. So would better school security. Maybe we can match this guy up with the one who wants to arm teachers.
posted by etaoin at 11:21 AM on October 21, 2006

I know what area of the body I would protect with that old history book!

What an idiot!
posted by HuronBob at 11:24 AM on October 21, 2006

You'd need to do what Omar does, when he gets sent to jail in the current season of The Wire -- ie, use duct tape to strap them all around your body, making an impromptu bullet proof vest.

Then, when the shooter appears, you just wrestle the gun from his hand, take out your home made shiv, stab him multiple times in the ass and then ditch the weapon and go hide out with your homeys until the guards... I mean, teachers, have taken the shooter down to the punishment block.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:28 AM on October 21, 2006 [1 favorite]

This is ridiculous. Kids today are far more likely to die from being total fatasses then from the bullets of a classmate.

Of course, school shootings make for great news copy, so that's what we're all going to worry about now.
posted by Afroblanco at 11:29 AM on October 21, 2006

although raise the specter of a passive bystander society

I always assumed "No Child Left Behind" meant students were prepared to drag a wounded classmate 20 yards under desks while teacher lays down supressing fire.
posted by eddydamascene at 11:30 AM on October 21, 2006 [38 favorites]

All the textbooks at my kids' schools are already outdated.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:32 AM on October 21, 2006

Great idea, now we need to teach our kids how to have matrix speed reflexes so they can align books with bullets.
posted by samsara at 11:32 AM on October 21, 2006

Link to a TV website with an embedded video of his "experiment"....YEE HAW !
posted by lobstah at 11:39 AM on October 21, 2006

"I always assumed "No Child Left Behind" meant students were prepared to drag a wounded classmate 20 yards under desks while teacher lays down supressing fire."

great!
posted by HuronBob at 11:40 AM on October 21, 2006

If we hadn't already been a "passive bystander" society September 11th wouldn't have happened.

We'd very much told to sit down and let things play out, that the fellow would leave if he got his money or time on camera. And no one would get hurt.

Regardless of any "specters" this may raise for some, this person is in the minority. I think Americans today are more likely than ever to take an active role when confronted with violence.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 11:49 AM on October 21, 2006

sigh
posted by blacklite at 11:50 AM on October 21, 2006

If we hadn't already been a "passive bystander" society September 11th wouldn't have happened.

Wow.
posted by smackfu at 11:52 AM on October 21, 2006

At least they aren't advocating arming all of the kids.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:53 AM on October 21, 2006

New uses for godless biology texts! They also make lovely bacon presses.
posted by maryh at 11:55 AM on October 21, 2006

Don't make fun of the guy--this might keep his fellow-whackjobs from burning books, at any rate.
posted by leftcoastbob at 11:55 AM on October 21, 2006

Now he's advocating Kevlar covers for the books.

Video of the tests here.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:57 AM on October 21, 2006

I don't think I even need to say this, but obviously a book is smaller then a body, so a shooter can just aim around the book.
posted by delmoi at 11:59 AM on October 21, 2006

Regardless of any "specters" this may raise for some, this person is in the minority. I think Americans today are more likely than ever to take an active role when confronted with violence.

An active role when confronted with a violent society means what to you?
posted by Brian B. at 12:00 PM on October 21, 2006

This is ridiculous. Kids today are far more likely to die from being total fatasses then from the bullets of a classmate.

What? Kids don't die from being fat.
posted by delmoi at 12:01 PM on October 21, 2006

Has anyone submitted this to mythbusters yet?
posted by MrLint at 12:03 PM on October 21, 2006

eddydamascene : I always assumed "No Child Left Behind" meant students were prepared to drag a wounded classmate 20 yards under desks while teacher lays down supressing fire.


Genius! The books as shields...not so much.
posted by dejah420 at 12:03 PM on October 21, 2006

The rifle bullet penetrated two books, including a calculus textbook, but the pistol bullet was stopped by a single book.


The otherwordly stupidity of the proposal itself aside, why did they feel "including a calculus textbook" was a necessary part of the sentence? And then why wasn't the second textbook named? It just seems so random..
posted by c13 at 12:06 PM on October 21, 2006

Putting Kevlar on the books is actually more absurd than putting kevlar on the kids. I mean, the amount of Kevlar is relatively the same for a much better result. Kevlar bookbags seems like a winner if the goal is to protect kids and books.
posted by Brian B. at 12:07 PM on October 21, 2006

PeterMcDermott

DUDE! I don't have HBO OnDemand. Could you at least have given me a spoiler alert?!
posted by papakwanz at 12:11 PM on October 21, 2006

OOh, ooh, I have another idea! How about collecting the fryer grease from the cafeteria into special containers that can be places in the halls of the school? The containers then can be triggered from the principal's office to dump the grease on the floors so that the shooters will slip and fall. The kids can then use their books as sleds to evacuate the building.
posted by c13 at 12:12 PM on October 21, 2006

Ahem, placeD, that is...
posted by c13 at 12:13 PM on October 21, 2006

Crozier faces incumbent Democrat Sandy Garrett in the Nov. 7 general election for state superintendent. A spokeswoman for Garrett's campaign, Kimberly Hawkins Sanders, said Garrett had no comment on Crozier's idea.

Probably for the best. Just let the idea sit out there and stink like a turd on a turkey sandwich for everyone to smell. No need to point out its inherent absurdity. Well, then again, it is in Oklahoma...
posted by papakwanz at 12:14 PM on October 21, 2006

Jebus h. monkeybutt Christ.

...is the only appropriate response to the level of this guy's dumbassery. I know. Let's remove all the guards and metal detectors around Congress and put the same protections in our schools. Then issue Congress Kevlar-coated copies of a thick book of their choice. KJ Bible for Repubs, Chomsky or Marx for Dems. Good luck, gentlemen! Better work on those reflexes!

If my kid had been killed in a shooting, I'd be wanting this guy to rot in hell.
posted by emjaybee at 12:19 PM on October 21, 2006

Actually, the more I think about it, this has to be another textbook publisher scam. They have to keep issuing "new editions" for students to buy because last year's is now being used for self-defense.

But, who knows, if this idea works, we could implement it in Iraq. Send over our old school books to the troops. Strap them to Humvees. Hell, this could streamline the whole recruitment process. As soon as you graduate from high school, just take your bookbag over to the Army recruiter's office and you're good to go!
posted by papakwanz at 12:22 PM on October 21, 2006

"...why did they feel "including a calculus textbook" was a necessary part of the sentence?"

'cause calculus is really hard.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:32 PM on October 21, 2006

dear america, when will you get rid of the problem and stop knee jerking about the result. thxbi.
posted by adamvasco at 12:34 PM on October 21, 2006 [2 favorites]

home school all the kids and save the tax money for the military. We don't need educated kids. No jobs left. oursource the kids to work the outscourced jobs. Use phone books for protection. if you live in big city, better protection. Small town? small phone book: you die
posted by Postroad at 12:47 PM on October 21, 2006

Ever had a gun pointed at you by a nut? Passive bystander's are hyperactive compared to most people looking at the business end of a loaded weapon. Tends to focus a person's attention very quickly.

Guns, like the sight of blood, provoke automatic reactions in most people. Fight or flight reactions where neither is a viable option tend to mostly produce things like emotional trauma, shock, and urine.

I know a lot of people imagine themselves thinking on their feet in a high stress situation, but evidence seems to indicate that part of your brain can't get your emergency management system to pay any attention as it sets off the physical klaxons in your body.

Soldiers, cops, and other first responders are trained and trained some more, with the hope that when they encounter something physically shocking to them they can hopefully fall back on their training, automatically, without thinking it through.

Feel free to imagine yourself as Chuck Norris, beating the bad guy with the overhead projector, just don't claim to be surprised if it turns out your immediate reaction is to quake and cry. Hell, lots of people who act as heroes are quaking, crying, and peeing themselves as they behave heroically.

Kind of the definition of heroic, actually. And they just don't show that part on TV.
posted by dglynn at 12:56 PM on October 21, 2006 [1 favorite]

Ever had a gun pointed at you by a nut? Passive bystander's are hyperactive compared to most people looking at the business end of a loaded weapon. Tends to focus a person's attention very quickly.

I officially regret using an ambiguous phrase to denote a submissive social milieu that regards its citizens as bystanders waiting to be attacked. This is the second time someone has taken the phrase to imply a reactive victim, echoing the NRA's policy of arming each citizen (which I assumed was impractical when it regards children in classrooms).
posted by Brian B. at 1:10 PM on October 21, 2006

A better idea, issue all the kids gas masks and a CS grenade. When a shooter comes in, the kids just toss their grenades and pull on their masks. The shooter is left chocking on the floor while the kids make their escape.

Obviously kids will get detention for using their grenades in non 'active-shooter-in-the-building' situations (like gym class for instance). It will also have to be forbidden to use the gas masks to make fun of how someone smells.

Other than that, this seems like a perfect idea, or at least a better idea than having someone expect a book to stop a bullet.
posted by quin at 1:11 PM on October 21, 2006

Shielding yourself against bullets must be unconstitutional. After all, guns are there for citizens to use for their own protection: ergo, anyone who attempts to protect themselves against being shot declares themselves an enemy of freedom.

Otherwise, you'd ban guns - crazy talk.
posted by Phanx at 1:14 PM on October 21, 2006

Otherwise, you'd ban guns - crazy talk.

Well, if you're ignoring the idea of bonding or insuring guns against misuse, then yes, crazy talk.
posted by Brian B. at 1:20 PM on October 21, 2006

So 'the pen is mightier than the sword' transmutes into 'the textbook is mightier than the bullet'? Methinks not.

What Adamvasco said. Go right to the root of the problem to find the solution.
posted by stumcg at 1:52 PM on October 21, 2006

At least they'd be using the books for something.
posted by drezdn at 1:59 PM on October 21, 2006

Why would old textbooks need to be kept for this purpose? Are the new ones that much thinner? Surely the frequency of school shootings isn't yet such that textbook-loss through bullet-stopping would result in an impediment to education. Why keep flammable, outdated textbooks around instead of sending them off to be recycled? This guy is obviously in the pay of the forestry industry.
posted by nowonmai at 2:23 PM on October 21, 2006

New homework for YouTube enthusiasts: Make videos where you take your daddy's gun (utilizing all proper safety precautions of course), then take your textbooks and shoot them. Make sure the camera captures impact.

Show in the video whether or not a head splatters against the far wall, or if the bullet is in fact stopped short by various kinds of textbooks. In fact there's all kinds of scientific tests that can be conducted. Are literature books better bullet deterrents than grammar books? Should a kid choose World History over U.S. Government books, when looking under his desk for an effing prayer in hell?

Try holding the textbook up to the head of a politician, then shoot at his head. See if it protects him. See if he flinches. Get all this on film. Call Johnny Knoxville. Be sure to somehow work in the mentos and diet coke thing, cuz that's always good entertainment on YouTube.

How about we just insist parents shell out bucks for bullet proof vests? Make that a mandatory item for all student scholastic uniforms? Make them wear helmets and IR goggles while you're at it.

Old News is Good News Department: A school in Arizona went digital last year: no textbooks. Now that's sensible, but if this catches on, what will the backpack industry do? I predict massive layoffs.
posted by ZachsMind at 2:43 PM on October 21, 2006

just in case anyone takes me seriously and dies from shooting textbooks with guns, THAT WAS A FUCKING JOKE you moron. Joe Rogan's crappy warning message at the start of Fear Factor applies.
posted by ZachsMind at 2:44 PM on October 21, 2006

If all the kids had guns they could just take shooters or hostage takers out themselves.

So the problem is really one of there not being enough guns in schools.
posted by nyxxxx at 2:58 PM on October 21, 2006

If all the kids had guns they could just take shooters or hostage takers out themselves.

So the problem is really one of there not being enough guns in schools.

Damn teacher's union. If we could just give guns to all the fetuses too, there would be no talk of abortion.
posted by Brian B. at 3:08 PM on October 21, 2006 [1 favorite]

"So the problem is really one of there not being enough guns in schools."

Never fear, nyxxxx. They're working on it.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:17 PM on October 21, 2006

If we could just give guns to all the fetuses too, there would be no talk of abortion.

Lol.
posted by callmejay at 3:50 PM on October 21, 2006

They actually stop most handgun bullets, although raise the specter of a passive bystander society.

Twelve pine boards will not stop a .223 round.
posted by three blind mice at 3:52 PM on October 21, 2006

three blind mice, I'm guessing that a book has different properties if others find that it stops some bullets, but the sheetrock experiment in your link reminds us all about the extreme danger to others when shooting guns indoors (with the exception of shotguns perhaps).
posted by Brian B. at 4:08 PM on October 21, 2006

.223 is not a hand gun round. It is the same bullet that is in the M-16. It's typically designates as a 5.56mm, but it's the exact same thing as a .223.

Despite being so small, they are very high velocity and have a lot of kinetic energy. As three blind mice's link will attest, it's powerful enough to punch through a bunch of pieces of wood. It would vaporize a book.
posted by quin at 4:30 PM on October 21, 2006

For anyone who wants to know, here are some tables that show the relative power of different calibers of ammunition.

By way of example, a common 9mm round will travel at 1500 feet per second and hit with 440 foot pounds of force. Your average .223 is going to be moving at 3200 fps and have about 1174 pounds of force.

That is going to pass through a book like it wasn't even there.
posted by quin at 4:44 PM on October 21, 2006

Pine is an extremely soft wood. With a small amount of practice, you can drive a nail through a thick pine board with a single hammer hit.

A stack of paper is probably more dense than most boards. Not only that, but paper is made of wood pulp, glue, and sometimes clay (if the pages are magazine-glossy). A school book proably behaves more like a stack of fresh high-quality MDF than any board.

That having been said, adding metal detectors and prohibiting knives and guns from school clasrooms is a far better solution (but probably, no pun intended, overkill).
posted by b1tr0t at 4:49 PM on October 21, 2006

So the problem is really one of there not being enough guns in schools.

from yesteryear's 'duck and cover' to the modern 'duck and cover fire'
posted by troybob at 5:28 PM on October 21, 2006

Clearly we need steel then, a freestanding small V-shaped shield under the desk for passive deployment, maximizing deflection and side protection, made of 1/8 inch plate in the school shop (5lbs/sq.ft.) that could be used to rush the assailant and dent his forehead and then decapitate him (a practiced drill perhaps). The chances of a shooter ramping up his selection of guns based on prior knowledge of the useless calculus books is too great to risk.
posted by Brian B. at 5:31 PM on October 21, 2006

That gas masks in the classroom idea is pretty good actually. Reminds me of Battle Royale somehow.
posted by stinkycheese at 5:40 PM on October 21, 2006

What about an aluminum baseball bat that students can use to hit the bullets back at the shooter?
posted by papakwanz at 6:16 PM on October 21, 2006

Since it may not be clear from the FPP I'd like to point out that this is the republican candidate in the race.
You know, the party that wll protect us from the wolves.
posted by 2sheets at 6:40 PM on October 21, 2006

So is the democrat candidate not suggesting anything for children's protection against domestic terrorism? Those damned democrats!

...oh. Wait! I'm a democrat!
posted by ZachsMind at 6:53 PM on October 21, 2006

Lightsabers are the only workable solution.
posted by Hicksu at 8:05 PM on October 21, 2006

At first I thought Crozier proposed piling up old books like sandbags around each kid's desk, sort of like a WWII machine gun emplacement, which would be bizarro but maybe possibly kinda effective, since it would provide extra thickness and the kid could just dive under the desk and cower there. But the actual idea is just ... where's that batshitinsane tag?

I think Crozier should personally demonstrate the effectiveness of his proposal in a staged school shootout with live ammunition.
posted by Quietgal at 8:19 PM on October 21, 2006

Does this remind anyone else of the 1950's when school children were encourage to hide under their desks in the event of a nuclear attack? I think I remember a post about that concept a few years ago. I can't find it in my inebriated state, but hey I manage a tiki bar in the virgin islands.
posted by OntologicalPuppy at 8:43 PM on October 21, 2006

I have a better idea. Issue the children expired copies of the Chicago Yellow Pages. Then instruct the kids to hurl the old phone books at anybody attempting to disrupt the classroom. It's good physical fitness, encourages recycling, and will take out the roving hooligan at the same time!

That's assuming that the little turkeys could even lift the darn thing.
posted by drstein at 9:01 PM on October 21, 2006

It's interesting how they want kids to use specially issued old textbooks. Is funding so low now that they don't want to risk damage to newer textbooks in the event of a school shooting? Or are the new textbooks, printed on recycled paper, less likely to stop bullets from an AK47....
posted by romanb at 1:12 AM on October 22, 2006

papakwanz: sorry dude -- I live in a country that's completely free of The Wire, so I have to get my fix from Bittorrent.

I just assumed that episode had already screened.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 3:09 AM on October 22, 2006

As long as we're talking Battle Royale, why not fit every pupil with an exploding collar? As soon as someone draws a gun, all the teacher has to do is enter the 5-digit identity code and *boom* no more gunman! The books could still come in handy, though, to prevent spattering blood and bone shards from harming innocent civilians. It's so safe, I can't imagine why anyone hasn't thought of that sooner!
posted by PontifexPrimus at 3:13 AM on October 22, 2006

God save me from the idiots you put on my side.
posted by Smedleyman at 5:48 PM on October 22, 2006

This has to be one of the most stupid ideas ever. How could anyone propose anything so utterly foolish? Then I remembered...

This idea came from a guy "edumacated" by the US educational system.
posted by mooncrow at 7:33 PM on October 22, 2006