Comments on: 101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived

101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived

jonson — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:17:09 -0800

101 Most Influential People Who Never Lived is a book chronicling the most impactful (non-religious) fictional characters throughout history. While they only tease with the first 50 characters on the book's homepage, the hard hitting investigative journalists at USA Today have uncovered the entire 101 for your arguing enjoyment.

By: interrobang

interrobang — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:20:04 -0800

Jesus isn't on there? Oh, right. He's totally real, and he totally lived once.

By: xmutex

xmutex — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:21:01 -0800

Damn, I wanted to make the Jesus comment.

By: TwoWordReview

TwoWordReview — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:27:19 -0800

No Homer Simpson?

By: jonson

jonson — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:28:49 -0800

non-religious, snarkys.

By: The Card Cheat

The Card Cheat — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:31:53 -0800

They had room for J.R. Ewing, but not Charlie Brown? Good grief!

By: Flashman

Flashman — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:32:04 -0800

No Holden Caulfield?

By: evilangela

evilangela — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:34:35 -0800

Well, they had to make it a non-religious list, or they'd totally lose no matter who they had on there and who they left out.

By: The Card Cheat

The Card Cheat — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:34:36 -0800

Also, Joe Camel wuz ranked way too low. If it hadn't been for him, I would never have taken up pool.

By: vacapinta

vacapinta — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:37:30 -0800

I dont get #19. The American Cowboy never lived?

By: ibmcginty

ibmcginty — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:38:00 -0800

Buffy the Vampire Slayer in the top 50???

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:40:07 -0800

I would say the religious caveat was a good move, since that would easily be the argument that would bring any discussion of the list's merits to a standstill. Though I'm surprised people are snarking "Jesus" and not "God" when most historians believe there was in fact a Jesus, just as a prophet and not literally the son of God, wheras God is clearly existent through belief only. Only surprising omission: Uncle Sam. Seems like a hugely relevant iconic character, even moreso than Rosie (who def. belongs there)

By: Kirth Gerson

Kirth Gerson — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:42:26 -0800

The Little Engine That Could and Godzilla are people? Citizen Kane never lived? Even as Wm. Randolph Hearst? Don't wander around New Hampster saying Uncle Sam never existed. Where is Lemuel Gulliver? Winston Smith? Captain Queeg?

By: Megafly

Megafly — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:42:28 -0800

Spiderman isn't on the list, and Superman is 64 while "Siegfried" is number 7? This list was made by snobs, morons, or both.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:42:36 -0800

Yeah, ibmcginty, I just saw that one too. I think there's some rule that all Top 100 lists have to have one entry that is completely inexcusable. Unless of course you actually think Forrest Gump is actually one of the 100 greatest films ever made, in which case you should kill yourself immediately.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:45:44 -0800

Oops, Uncle Sam was on the full list. My bad.

By: Humanzee

Humanzee — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:46:43 -0800

They don't obey their own religious caveat. Prometheus, Venus, Cupid, and Pandora are all religious figures (and what's the deal with Venus & Cupid being one person?). I suppose it's only true religions that are off-limits.

By: loquacious

loquacious — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:48:21 -0800

"Big Brother" is second? As what, a role model? Many of the rest are no-brainers, but Buffy? Above Venus? Cupid? Saint Valentine? Buck Rodgers? Luke Skywalker!?! WTF? That's it. I'm so inventing a time machine and going back and killing Joss Whedon's grandparents.

By: ereshkigal45

ereshkigal45 — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:50:59 -0800

"Spiderman isn't on the list, and Superman is 64 while "Siegfried" is number 7?" The fact that the Marlboro Man is number one is a big clue that the list is based not on how well known the character is but on it's actual effect on the real world. Siegfried is a huge symbol of the national identity of Germans, and we all know what happens when Germans get hung up on national identity.

By: jonson

jonson — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:51:51 -0800

This list was made by snobs, morons, or both Snorons... Also, XQ is absolutely right, the absence of Uncle Sam is the most glaring mistake here, worse even than Buffy.

By: loquacious

loquacious — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:53:16 -0800

Uncle Sam is #61.

By: jonson

jonson — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:53:22 -0800

D'oh. On preview I missed XQ's pointing out that US is on the full list. I'm lame.

By: rogue haggis landing

rogue haggis landing — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:53:48 -0800

Godzilla, Bambi, the Ugly Duckling, HAL 9000 and the Loch Ness Monster were very influential people.

By: fixedgear

fixedgear — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:53:58 -0800

Impactful - bwahahahahahahahahaha

By: jefgodesky

jefgodesky — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:55:31 -0800

A good number of those are, if nothing else, at least somewhat based on real people—Big Brother (Stalin), King Arthur and Santa Claus all have at least some grounding in historical figures.

By: Kwantsar

Kwantsar — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:57:43 -0800

No Holden Caulfield? The authors did not want to be accused of being phony.

By: oddman

oddman — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:04:23 -0800

No d'Artagnan, Athos, Aramis, or Porthos. That's B.S. They don't even have La Liberte. That's complete and total B.S.

By: ND¢

ND¢ — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:05:04 -0800

Siegfried never actually lived?! Roy is the greatest fucking magician of all time!

By: JJ86

JJ86 — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:05:06 -0800

The Marloboro Man is #1? Please tell me this is not sequential.

By: Navelgazer

Navelgazer — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:06:01 -0800

Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but no Harry Potter St. Valentine (who by my best knowledge existed) but no Homer Simpson. And, though I simply skimmed the list, I didn't notice Frodo on there either. I'm not really a LotR freak, but I know too many of them to not think that he was influential. Whatever, though. Clearly, the list isn't going to be scientifically derived, and some redundant characters had to be left out or joined (Venus & Cupid, Kirk & Spock) and others (Buffy) had to be but in so as to pretend to be hip. We compile a similar list here and have it be every bit as valid.

By: william_boot

william_boot — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:07:45 -0800

Where's William Boot? I'm outraged!

By: tomsk

tomsk — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:09:57 -0800

Luke Skywalker makes the cut but Darth Vader doesn't? Clearly suspect. Vader's influence can be seen in much modern policy and diplomatic protocol. Anyone following Luke's example wouldn't stand a chance.

By: George_Spiggott

George_Spiggott — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:13:36 -0800

Why lump Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn together? They're dissimilar characters, and Huck alone would deserve a much higher rating whereas Tom Sawyer's lasting influence seems to be confined to fence-painting and its metaphorical cognates.

By: weapons-grade pandemonium

weapons-grade pandemonium — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:14:08 -0800

Kramer? Does it matter that the character's creator is the actor?

By: Armitage Shanks

Armitage Shanks — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:14:18 -0800

The fact that the Marlboro Man is number one is a big clue that the list is based not on how well known the character is but on it's actual effect on the real world Right, and the subtitle of the book implies the same thing: "how characters of fiction, myth, legends, television, and movies have shaped our society, changed our behavior, and set the course of history". In that case, the TV characters are just silly: 32. Archie Bunker 39. Mary Richards 44. Buffy the Vampire Slayer 50. Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock 63. J.R. Ewing 67. Kermit the Frog 86. Perry Mason Even if they were the most, oh, significant TV characters, how have any of them "shaped our society, changed our behavior, and set the course of history"? This might have been an interesting idea if they hadn't dumbed it down so much.

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:15:41 -0800

St. Nick actually existed. He wasn't a jolly man is a red suit, but he was a real person.

By: spicynuts

spicynuts — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:17:14 -0800

How about my girlfriend? She's fictional. Where does she fall on the list?

By: dontoine

dontoine — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:22:06 -0800

I immediately thought Don Q, Ahab, Odysseus--and there they were! Also surprised at no Holden.

By: goo

goo — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:23:18 -0800

Marianne and Britannia are two huuuuge omissions, if they're really talking about influence - it would be a very different world today without British imperialism and French republicanism.

By: jefgodesky

jefgodesky — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:25:05 -0800

St. Nick actually existed. He wasn't a jolly man is a red suit, but he was a real person. Yes, but Santa Claus--the jolly man in the red suit--not so much. But of the top five, three have at least some historical basis. St. Valentine (who by my best knowledge existed) A fine example of the opposite trajectory, actually. Valentine is presumed to be historical by most people, but probably wasn't. As opposed to, say, King Arthur, who's generally presumed to be entirely made up, but almost certainly has at least some historical core, regardless of how far removed that core is from the legends that eventually sprang up around it.

By: Pendragon

Pendragon — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:25:34 -0800

Hey!!!!! Don't mess with the Slayer!!!!

By: Down10

Down10 — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:29:01 -0800

How on earth they left out Bart or Homer Simpson eludes me. Is it only the stuff that the Smithsonian has acknowledged?

By: cvoid

cvoid — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:30:35 -0800

Interesting list. It does, however, seem totally biased towards the west. Not many Asian/Middle Eastern/African/Latin American figures on the list, if any. Then again, lists like this are always, how shall we say, "made up". Hence people reading it and getting their argue on.

By: Down10

Down10 — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:32:11 -0800

I think they should have left any and all Greek mythology out of it as well. There's just too many characters and they'd dominate the list.

By: nj_subgenius

nj_subgenius — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:34:31 -0800

I *do* like their having included Hans Beckert. M is one of my faves. But - The Wandering Jew at #92?? WTF?!? Mammy at #81? Who was on the selection committee?

By: Pastabagel

Pastabagel — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:38:30 -0800

But wait, Odysseus was real! or not

By: ereshkigal45

ereshkigal45 — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:39:09 -0800

I think we're all looking at the list way too literally. Most of the list consists of characters who are reflective of certain times, or movements, or social changes. Example: Mary Richards reflected the acceptance of single working women. Perry Mason brought the esoteric workings of the courtroom straight into the living room so that fifty years later we can all argue with the DA's decisions on L&O.

By: empath

empath — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:46:16 -0800

I think the primary point of the list was for them to use it as a jumping-off point for a bunch of essays about culture and history. I don't think it was meant to be authoritative.

By: Danf

Danf — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:47:35 -0800

Any list of important fictional characters that excludes him is not worth talking about.

By: robocop is bleeding

robocop is bleeding — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:54:17 -0800

Buffy is on the list because, admit it, one night you were feeling lonely, UPN was on, and the lotion was just so warm.

By: quin

quin — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:02:11 -0800

Bugs Bunny Indiana Jones Rick Blaine Det. John McClane The first zombie in Night of the Living Dead And yes, Homer Simpson. This list doesn't have them. This list is now dead to me.

By: ND¢

ND¢ — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:03:41 -0800

Buffy is on the list because, admit it, one night you were feeling lonely, UPN was on, and the lotion was just so warm. ... ceiling cat?

By: Danf

Danf — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:09:06 -0800

Buffy is on the list because, admit it, one night you were feeling lonely, UPN was on, and the lotion was just so warm. Well it started that way but then the evil Angel kept barging in and ruining the whole scenario. It sucks when, even in one's fantasies, one dies a slow, painful, humiliating death and then goes to hell forever.

By: MegoSteve

MegoSteve — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:12:38 -0800

I would hope that list isn't sequential, because Superman would be right up there at the top, and Santa would be ranked higher than the Marlboro Man.

By: Cranberry

Cranberry — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:17:07 -0800

Guys made the list - thus Elizabeth Bennett and Mr. Darcy were overlooked?

By: Benny Andajetz

Benny Andajetz — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:21:06 -0800

For some strange reason, before I looked at the list, I said to myself "Atticus Finch better have made it". He did. List is good. That is all.

By: Smart Dalek

Smart Dalek — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:27:01 -0800

Sorry, Everyman...you got screwed again.

By: taosbat

taosbat — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:27:02 -0800

Kilroy wasn't here.

By: jefbla

jefbla — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:53:08 -0800

If you're gonna make a list of the 101 most influential people who never lived, and not include Homer Simpson, then why even bother in the first place?

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:55:00 -0800

Hey man, what the fuck? I mean, where the fuck is the dude, Walter?

By: cellphone

cellphone — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:59:09 -0800

impactful is not a word

By: Phantast

Phantast — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 13:06:44 -0800

Unless you've hav Bubbie's chopped liver, you haven't lived... the list is bunk.

By: Inglesa Loquita

Inglesa Loquita — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 13:23:04 -0800

Dilbert! Hello!!?! Where is he? He's only one of the greatest political commentators and philosophers of our time, along with his egomaniacal little dog, and evil, crazed cat.

By: forrest

forrest — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 13:25:58 -0800

Considering how much modern political philosophy is based on advice given to the guy, I'd say The Prince should have been on the list.

By: cgc373

cgc373 — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 13:29:09 -0800

Phantast, um, what?

By: squidfartz

squidfartz — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 13:39:54 -0800

No Kilgore Trout? I'm going back to sleep.

By: loquacious

loquacious — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 13:45:53 -0800

Hey!!!!! Don't mess with the Slayer!!!! Your excessively enthusiastic abuse of exclaimative punctuation and overly moist fanboy/girl-ish umbrage only proves my well-made point. Primarily: that the only thing good to come out of the Buffy empire was the original movie, and that's only 'cause there was that awesomely melodramatic death scene with Pee Wee Herman. Alternately: We could indeed use a time machine to erase all evidence of Buffy and/or Joss Whedon's existence, and the only loss to human culture would be a distinct reduction in the volume of terrible and (terribly disturbing) slashfic/fanfic. As a bonus gift from humanity to itself there'd be far fewer people believing they were actually vampires or otherkin.

By: sour cream

sour cream — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 13:54:35 -0800

The ugly duckling? The little engine that could? Why not include "Weapons of Mass Destruction"?

By: feelinglistless

feelinglistless — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 13:55:13 -0800

No timelords?

By: jefgodesky

jefgodesky — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 13:56:45 -0800

Considering how much modern political philosophy is based on advice given to the guy, I'd say The Prince should have been on the list. Oh, the Prince was real.

By: Deathalicious

Deathalicious — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:01:38 -0800

As I understand it, each entry is defended by a page or two, so if you have a serious issue with the list, go down to your local Barnes & Noble/Borders/Waterstones/[insert country-specific book chain here] and flip through the book. Marlboro Man killed thousands vai cigarettes, Big Brother changed the way we think about government interference and involvement, Buffy helped thousands discover they were gay, etc (JOKE! JOKE!). I'm guessing there are relatively persuasive arguments. As with all lists, this is weighted towards personal experiences of the author: Western and modern characters get more coverage. In a thousand years, I'm guessing the 500th edition will be missing a lot of recent characters who will lose relevance as time goes one, but that many of the more long-standing characters (Odysseus, Pandora) will still be there. Oh, and my snark: Pandora should be much higher, if one considers that she embodies the negative stereotype of women as inherently harmful in action. Even if not based exclusively on this myth, for certain this belief perpetuated sexist societal structures until the present day.

By: hal9k

hal9k — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:16:04 -0800

Eddie (from Iron Maiden)

By: sotonohito

sotonohito — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:01:29 -0800

I can't help but notice that the list is exclusively European/American focused, despite the huge impact of fictional characters from other parts of the world... Emperor Jimu, for example, the mythic First Emperor of Japan, grandson of the sun goddess Amaterasu. That fictional person lead to a little thing we called the Pacific theatre of World War II. Surely he's a bit more important to the world than Archie Bunker.

By: forrest

forrest — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:10:40 -0800

the Prince was real. No, he wasn't -- at least not anymore than Citizen Kane is William Hearst or William Tell or King Arthur were real. The monarchical ruler in Machiavelli's book was modeled on Cesare Borgia, but was not actually him.

By: blacklite

blacklite — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:19:44 -0800

Buffy was the only fictional character I've ever had a properly long dream about.^{* And the show was fun. However, her being on a list like this: what?

* - She had black cherry lipstick on, and we were on a train. And may I just say, damn, damn.}

By: blacklite

blacklite — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:20:07 -0800

aww, fuck, I forgot to close my sup tag. That's what I get for trying to be clever.

By: erniepan

erniepan — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:45:41 -0800

Beowulf and Grendel? Gilgamesh and Enkidu? Br'er Rabbit? John Henry? Pecos Bill? Mike Fink? Molly Pitcher? Marianne? Charlie Brown? The Yellow Kid? The Three Stooges? Bugs Bunny? Ronald MacDonald?

By: rob511

rob511 — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:53:15 -0800

Two more omissions: 1) The entity known as Dick Cheney — nobody knows where (or if) he sleeps, he shoots friends with impunity, and his "heart" is artificially controlled. 2) mattamyn

By: pax digita

pax digita — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:25:53 -0800

Ummm, nitpick? I realize a lot of people don't believe in the divinity & related folderol of Y'shua Hannosri, but...fictitiious?

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:29:52 -0800

No Maldoror? No Ubu Roi? Merdre!

By: cholly

cholly — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:47:49 -0800

Guys made the list - thus Elizabeth Bennett and Mr. Darcy were overlooked? I was also shocked at the ommision of Emma Woodhouse.

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:49:19 -0800

Hm. No Godot, either. Pathetic.

By: jb

jb — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:55:55 -0800

There were some interesting entries, and many I agreed with, but the order of importance is so out of whack. I love Buffy, but no way in a month of Sundays is she more influential than Luke Skywalker, let alone Helen of Troy. the show just isn't old enough. Pure influence should be measured by age, tempered by lastingness. 20th cen things are fresher, but have influenced less people because they've been around less time.

By: dobbs

dobbs — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:17:19 -0800

Where am I? :(

By: quin

quin — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:23:15 -0800

loquacious : Alternately: We could indeed use a time machine to erase all evidence of Buffy and/or Joss Whedon's existence, and the only loss to human culture would be a distinct reduction in the volume of terrible and (terribly disturbing) slashfic/fanfic... On the other hand, if eliminated Joss Whedon's existence, we would also eliminate Firefly, an act which would constitute a crime against the full sum of humanity. And yes, Pee Wee's death scene is one of the finest moments ever captured on film. Ever.

By: taosbat

taosbat — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:37:53 -0800

Pee Wee...died? I didn't know...

By: Huplescat

Huplescat — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 17:58:20 -0800

These people are idiots. Where is The Bogeyman? And why don’t they include George Bush? He’s less a legitimate human being than the Marlboro man. Wait a minute... there’s a thing on NPR right now about a pampered pet pig.

By: Kwine

Kwine — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 19:43:23 -0800

Where is my favorite fictional entity X? And what about my second favorite Y! This list was obviously made by commie nazi pig fucking liberal conservatives, or else it would have Z! no quonsar?

By: loquacious

loquacious — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:40:03 -0800

FREE QUONSAR!!^* ^*Offer void where prohibited. Fish and pants sold separately. May mock you and everyone within earshot, mercilessly, even your grandmother. Air shipping not available on this item. Warning: May contain sharks, snarks or both. Processed in a facility that handles tree nuts. If FREE QUONSAR begins to smoke or sputter, run away and seek shelter.

By: Crabby Appleton

Crabby Appleton — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 21:30:16 -0800

Bueller? . . . Bueller?

By: I Am Not a Lobster

I Am Not a Lobster — Wed, 25 Oct 2006 21:52:37 -0800

No Ronald Reagan? The list is meaningless. Wait, what?

By: Target Practice

Target Practice — Thu, 26 Oct 2006 01:32:33 -0800

Some of these are really silly. I mean, I like To Kill a Mockingbird and all, but there's no way Atticus Finch is a more influential character than, say, Batman.

By: Katemonkey

Katemonkey — Thu, 26 Oct 2006 03:52:05 -0800

That's it. I'm so inventing a time machine and going back and killing Joss Whedon's grandparents. Not John Whedon! Life without "Opie's Ill-Gotten Gain" wouldn't just be worth livin'!

By: Adelwolf

Adelwolf — Thu, 26 Oct 2006 08:52:03 -0800

Rewind back to the "Where's Jesus?" and the whole supposed-non-religious theme, just for a second... Sure, I can understand looking at the Greek/Roman pantheons, and thinking more "not-existed" and "mythological" than religious (despite the fact that people worshipped them)... but how the hell did Lilith get on the list, then?

By: pax digita

pax digita — Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:09:24 -0800

I guess Pecos Bill, Paul Bunyan and John Henry the Steel Drivin' Man could not be reached for comment.

By: chicobangs

chicobangs — Thu, 26 Oct 2006 12:04:58 -0800

Lilith was the perfect foil for Frasier Crane. Bebe Neuwirth made that character come alive.

By: phearlez

phearlez — Thu, 26 Oct 2006 12:35:08 -0800

My initial reaction, as a Buffy fan, was "you must be kidding." However. Whether it's true or not, a lot of people claimed at the time that the show started a big rush of strong female characters and feminine empowerment in media. If items are on this list for impact to society/entertainment then perhaps that's the justification. I think you might also claim it was a precursor to a return to serial stories in television. I'm sure someone will come up with some right after I say this but I'm drawing a blank on other similarly successful shows* that consistently had full-season storylines. Now there's many shows on that follow the model but then? *that's why I'm leaving you out, B5. Sorry.

By: bobobox

bobobox — Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:41:22 -0800

Troy, NY sure thinks Uncle Sam was a real man. Not only do they think he is buried there, but they named several rollerskating rinks and auto parts stores after him*. (this last bit may not be entirely true, but it is full of truthiness, and you get the idea)

By: stargell

stargell — Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:20:47 -0800

Where is Area Man?

By: sotonohito

sotonohito — Thu, 26 Oct 2006 15:17:56 -0800

pax digita: There are many doubts as to the existance of a historical Christ, completely aside from questions of divinity. The entire birth story, for example, has to be completely fictional. Rome did not conduct census by requiring people to return to the birthplace of the man of the house, simple historic fact. The court records of Pontius Pilate have no record of a trial such as described in the Bible. Etc, etc, etc.

By: jrochest

jrochest — Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:13:21 -0800

I'm teaching Henry IV part I at the moment, so I'm prone to notice this -- where the heck's Falstaff? There are three big reasons to add this guy (no pun intended):- like Sherlock Holmes, he escaped from the original fiction, finding his way into a sequel (Henry IV part II, largely written as a vehicle for Falstaff) and an independent comedy (Merry Wives of Windsor); Shakespeare also used him to drum up interest in Henry V when he promised his audience that he would "continue the story, with Sir John in it" (this in the epilogue of 2 Henry IV). Sadly, all Sir John does in Henry V is die offstage -- he never appears. In the period, other writers used him in pastiches, parodies and sketches. Since Shakespeare's day, he's been the subject of three operas, one by Verdi, one by Salieri, and a third by Vaughn Williams; a composition by Elgar; a series of engravings by Cruikshank; a a film by Orson Welles and a slew of books. He has given his name to a brewery (despite the fact that he drank sack, not beer), a rose , a ship, a fatly phallic rocket (Mistress Quickly would blush) bars in many countries and a a font.. I rest my case.

By: jb

jb — Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:18:46 -0800

And a really yummy apple.