Comments on: Rumsfeld quits

Rumsfeld quits

ernie — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:00:23 -0800

Newsfilter: RUMMY QUITS!! Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld resigns.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:02:28 -0800

Well, that's natural. He probably wants to devote more time to his true calling, modern interpretive dance.

By: A189Nut

A189Nut — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:02:39 -0800

By: armage

armage — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:03:54 -0800

Right now the President's having his press conference; let's see if he says anything about this.

By: R. Mutt

R. Mutt — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:04:59 -0800

Whipsmart beat you by 8 minutes.

By: meehawl

meehawl — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:05:11 -0800

Mission Accomplished.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:05:12 -0800

Wait! It might just be another rumor.

By: brevator

brevator — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:05:22 -0800

damn, spent to much time on the clever title.

By: ColdChef

ColdChef — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:05:49 -0800

Which old witch?

By: rolypolyman

rolypolyman — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:06:03 -0800

This is too much good news for one day... can't we spread it out a little?

By: fire&wings

fire&wings — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:06:35 -0800

w00t

By: Sirius

Sirius — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:06:36 -0800

Robert Gates

By: armage

armage — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:07:16 -0800

Yep, Bush confirmed it -- Rumsfeld is gone.

By: gsteff

gsteff — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:07:30 -0800

The SOB is still getting subpoenaed. He's not getting out of it that easy.

By: rough ashlar

rough ashlar — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:08:06 -0800

But why will changing the captain on the Titanic effect the coal fire in the hold and the iceburg which has ripped a hole in the side of the ship?

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:08:12 -0800

Bush is like a 5-year-old who didn't get the bicycle he was whining for--it's sad. If they had only done this 2 months ago, they might not have lost yesterday--and just the other day, Bush was saying Rummy was staying till the end of his term.

By: rand

rand — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:08:41 -0800

Just when I thought the day couldn't get any better... If anymore good news comes out, I think my head is going to explode.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:08:55 -0800

he's actually spitting the words out during this press conf.

By: keswick

keswick — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:08:56 -0800

Christmas came early this year!

By: InfidelZombie

InfidelZombie — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:09:18 -0800

Am I happy that Rumsfeld is gone? Goodness gracious, yes!

By: drezdn

drezdn — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:09:39 -0800

So Rumsfeld is getting a medal of honor then?

By: jca

jca — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:09:54 -0800

So the third time (attempting to resign) is the charm?

By: ZenMasterThis

ZenMasterThis — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:10:44 -0800

You go to war with the Secretary of Defense you have, notwith the Secretary of Defense you wish you had.

By: pax digita

pax digita — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:10:54 -0800

Huh. On Google News search, still seeing "Democrats' win alone won't drive Rumsfeld out" and "Rumsfeld Has No Plans to Step Down, Despite Democrat Gains" -- WaPo and Faux News respectively. But...'tis a consummation devoutly to be wish'd.

By: words1

words1 — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:10:54 -0800

Andy Borowitz is psychic: In the wee hours of the morning after American voters swept his party from power, President George W. Bush made an extraordinary appearance on national television to ask the national electorate for a "do-over." Millions of viewers were tuned into televised Election Night coverage when Mr. Bush, using the nation's Emergency Broadcasting System, interrupted those telecasts to make a direct appeal to the American people. Looking unshaven and unsteady, and occasionally slurring his words, the president implored the American people to invalidate the results of last night's election and vote again. "I grew up with the great tradition of do-overs on the golf courses of Greenwich, Connecticut," Mr. Bush told the American people. "And what's good for golf is good for democracy." Mr. Bush said that if the American people would grant him a do-over, he would gladly fire Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, referring to his longtime Cabinet member as "that loser."

By: killy willy

killy willy — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:11:36 -0800

!?!

By: aacheson

aacheson — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:11:53 -0800

YEAH! This is the icing on the cake on one of the best days I've had in, like, oh.... TWELVE YEARS! BYE BYE "good job Rummy!" FUCKING A! YEAH! He's talking about how he came in six years ago and wanted to "changed the tone"-and disappointed he hasn't changed it more. YOU'RE THE problem. Launching a new era of cooperation. JERK. Yeah, now you have to cooperate because the house isn't your laptop anymore.

By: found missing

found missing — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:13:24 -0800

Shouldn't Bush really be the one to resign?

By: R. Mutt

R. Mutt — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:14:21 -0800

Mr President sounds ticked. Heh.

By: aacheson

aacheson — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:14:55 -0800

Ha, he just said that when he said last week that Rumsfeld isn't going anywhere, he was planning on doing it but didn't want to inject a huge change in before the election. That it didn't have anything to do with the election. RIGHT. He's so full of shit. He's so scared...he keeps flip flopping all over the place.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:15:25 -0800

He doesn't know how to cooperate--it's his way or the highway--that's why he's pissed he was forced to do this (and forced by the GOP far more than by Dems). He can only work with people who agree with him.

By: mosk

mosk — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:16:37 -0800

Resignation? He should be falling on his fucking sword.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:16:38 -0800

Today he truly is a lameduck, and he knows it.

By: aacheson

aacheson — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:16:48 -0800

Err... lapDOG, not laptop.

By: melt away

melt away — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:16:53 -0800

Does this mean I can stop reading State of Denial?

By: OmieWise

OmieWise — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:17:04 -0800

Well, this is good, but we're still in the middle of a horrible war, with no good exit strategy.

By: killy willy

killy willy — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:17:07 -0800

Bush is now dancing around during his press conference, saying the election wasn't about Iraq, but about ethics. oh, the crushing irony.

By: tula

tula — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:17:11 -0800

These dominoes can keep falling as far as I'm concerned.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:18:24 -0800

Bush wasn't too thrilled about the 'investigations' question.

By: dead_

dead_ — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:18:31 -0800

Nice.

By: These Premises Are Alarmed

These Premises Are Alarmed — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:18:45 -0800

Why would Bush resign? He just won two years ago. And do we really want President Cheney? It irritates me that this is drawn as a referendum on W, wasn't that what happened in 2004? And he won. Anyway. Even if the *reason* he just gave on TV for not admitting that Rummy was on his way out makes sense -- when he gave it, he gave a "are you buying this?" look. What a liar.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:19:05 -0800

I can't believe he's actually trying to explain away his lies all during the campaign about keeping Rummy. After corruption and ethics were cited by most people in exit polls as the top reason they voted!

By: dazed_one

dazed_one — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:19:24 -0800

America, fuck yeah.

By: ernie

ernie — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:19:35 -0800

Wierd it made it, and all I got was an error on submit, I even started commenting in on brevator's post Please save the MeTa and whining please, its a special goddam occasion and I realize that otherwise these sorts of Newsfilter one links (esp to MSNBC) are toxic to Mefi in high doses. FWIW brevator had a nice title: "na-na, na-na na-na, hey hey hey..."

By: hal9k

hal9k — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:19:41 -0800

I read that Cheney was hunting quail again yesterday. I figured this little problem was going to be taken care of quietly down by the river.

By: jsavimbi

jsavimbi — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:19:54 -0800

Karl Rove managed to put the blame on Rummy. Someone hire that guy.

By: Ironmouth

Ironmouth — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:20:27 -0800

God Bless the United States of America. Democracy works. It is often quite slow, but comes to the right decision after error.

By: George_Spiggott

George_Spiggott — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:20:39 -0800

I wonder how many pardons Bush will issue in the next two years.

By: mkultra

mkultra — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:20:46 -0800

As much as I'm glad to see that fucking douchebag out... what a pussy. He was all big and huffy puffy about his critics when the GOP held both houses of Congress, but he's running with his tail between his legs at the first sign of having to actually answer his critics.

By: boo_radley

boo_radley — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:20:56 -0800

Is there a video feed for the Presidential press conference?

By: These Premises Are Alarmed

These Premises Are Alarmed — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:21:04 -0800

I'd love to see a visual representation of the number of times "lame duck" appears near "Bush" starting about a month ago... When does he "officially" get that moniker? Or does it depend on the results of the Senate?

By: trigby

trigby — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:21:51 -0800

Honestly this amazing news is great, but I still cannot believe that they didn't steal the election. I mean I really can't believe it. Buh-bye Rummy. Thanks for the great war strategy, asshole.

By: action man bow-tie

action man bow-tie — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:22:43 -0800

I hate to break it to you, but they're just going to find someone else to replace him.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:22:58 -0800

he must have repeated "work together" 100 times already--but he doesn't know how.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:23:32 -0800

Jesus. Judging from this presser Bush is going to be back on the sauce by the end of the year.

By: quin

quin — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:23:40 -0800

So this is the October surprise eh? Hmm, let's see if Rove's clever ploy will have any effect on the election... Wait. What?

By: leftcoastbob

leftcoastbob — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:23:58 -0800

Bush is now dancing around during his press conference, saying the election wasn't about Iraq, but about ethics. oh, the crushing irony. posted by killy willy Yeah--yours, George!

By: doctor_negative

doctor_negative — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:24:42 -0800

So we're losing one neocon robot to be replaced by another (if you cut off their heads, two grow back in its place). Is that really a win? Who will replace Gates at the CIA?

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:25:11 -0800

I still cannot believe that they didn't steal the election. I mean I really can't believe it. Watch VA, and MT--they're not done yet.

By: jmd82

jmd82 — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:25:17 -0800

...and just the other day, Bush was saying Rummy was staying till the end of his term. Just to be clear, I thought Bush said Rumsfield could stay in office- not that he wouldn't leave his position under any circumstance. ie, Bush wouldn't fire him when such action was speculated.

By: Afroblanco

Afroblanco — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:26:12 -0800

He probably wants to devote more time to his true calling, modern interpretive dance You mean poetry, right?

By: matthewr

matthewr — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:26:24 -0800

There's a live feed on the BBC site, boo_radley.

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:26:33 -0800

Rummy: Cut-and-run, motherfucker, cut-and-run! I say, stop-loss the POS for another tour. On the front lines. We can strap him to a humvee and use his withered, leathery carcass for armor. Support our troops!

By: Schlimmbesserung

Schlimmbesserung — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:26:38 -0800

Mwahaha. "Where's the Rum gone?"

By: Skygazer

Skygazer — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:27:39 -0800

This is too much good news for one day... can't we spread it out a little? posted by rolypolyman at 1:06 PM EST on November 8 It would have to be that way. Nothing but a stiff resistance for a long time and then complete capitulation. It's like the GOP/Neocon Berlin wall is coming down. (Now I'd like to know where I can go to piss on it.)

By: bob sarabia

bob sarabia — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:27:53 -0800

*does a touchdown dance*

By: gwildar

gwildar — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:27:57 -0800

Accepting responsibility for Klendathu, Sky Marshal Rumsfeld resigns. His successor, Sky Marshal Tehat Maru, outlines her new strategy. To fight the bug, we must understand the bug. We can ill afford another Klendathu.

By: squalor

squalor — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:28:25 -0800

Up next....

By: spicynuts

spicynuts — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:28:53 -0800

but he's running with his tail between his legs at the first sign of having to actually answer his critics. I haven't seen the news conference but I'm pretty confident this was not a voluntary resignation, know what I mean? This was probably a 'I am going to allow you to resign' thing. Which is not running with your tail between your legs. I'm sure Rummy would much still be in charge.

By: Benny Andajetz

Benny Andajetz — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:28:58 -0800

Who'd a thunk it? /smacks forehead/ Couldn't have seen this coming. I'm listening to Shrubya right now, and he sounds like a petulant little boy who's had his hand slapped. It's incredible to me that he thinks anyone will buy his revisionist retelling of what's been happening. He really thinks the public is composed of dolts. Somebody get him a mirror, please. That said, great news. Hopefully the snowball has just started rolling.

By: spicynuts

spicynuts — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:29:03 -0800

Or did you mean Bush?

By: boo_radley

boo_radley — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:29:05 -0800

matthewr: thanks. I can't get the msnbc one to play in firefox.

By: chillmost

chillmost — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:29:52 -0800

It's like Christmas came early. Is this democracy in action?

By: TheWash

TheWash — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:29:56 -0800

Juicy Iran-Contra info on the new guy here....

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:30:13 -0800

Nov.1: President Bush said Wednesday he wants Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Vice President Dick Cheney to remain with him until the end of his presidency, extending a job guarantee to two of the most-vilified members of his administration. "Both those men are doing fantastic jobs and I strongly support them," Bush said in an interview with The Associated Press and others. ...

By: malaprohibita

malaprohibita — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:30:17 -0800

No kidding? This is awesome!!!

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:31:16 -0800

also from there: He refused to say whether he could work effectively with House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi or Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid if Democrats won either the House or Senate, or both.

By: damn dirty ape

damn dirty ape — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:32:08 -0800

Rove fired Rummy although I dont think he'll make a very good scapegoat. The war is all about Bush and Cheney now.

By: slapshot57

slapshot57 — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:32:27 -0800

ahahahahahahaha

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:32:48 -0800

I say we pressure fill him to the brim with democracy and diabetic candies and drop him from a B-52 over Tehran. Show those Army weenies how you win a war... Good fucking riddance.

By: Wulfgar!

Wulfgar! — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:32:53 -0800

Amberglow, Montana has been called for Tester.

By: ericb

ericb — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:33:09 -0800

Just as he finished his prepared statement Bush opened his leather folder in which Karl Rove had scribbled in big, block letters -- "Fresh Perspective." Okay, George, how many more times can you drop that phrase in your non-answers to the reporters' questions?

By: rkent

rkent — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:33:52 -0800

Ha! Bush on Rove, explaining why the latter has out-performed in their book reading contest: "I was obviously working harder on the campaign than he was." At least he hasn't lost his sense of humor.

By: yonation

yonation — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:33:52 -0800

i can't believe he asked the terrorists "not to rejoice" at the win of the democrats. fucking shameless

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:34:12 -0800

Holy shit on a pita- did Bush just dis Rove?

By: ernie

ernie — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:34:23 -0800

So only Macaca Goldstein's fate determines the Senate! (yeah, I know, other thread, deal with it)

By: matteo

matteo — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:34:43 -0800

a friend txt'd me: "Rumsfeld out, Gates in" and I thought, Jesus Christ, the LAPD guy? But it's not Daryl, thankfully

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:34:55 -0800

squalor, that comes only if Rove can't save VA for them.

By: armage

armage — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:35:29 -0800

Here's an interesting interview by Frontline with Robert Gates regarding the 1991 Gulf War. Also, he was investigated but not indicted during Iran/Contra and involved in the US backing of Saddam in the 1980s, FWIW.

By: ericb

ericb — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:36:46 -0800

Who will replace Gates at the CIA? Gates is ex-CIA. he's currently the president of Texas A&M University.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:37:35 -0800

Amberglow, Montana has been called for Tester. Has Burns conceded yet? I heard no. Did MT officially certify it? Bush is over and over saying it was a close election, but 04 he said he got a "mandate" (the only mandates he had were with Gannon/Guckert, Foley, Haggard, Crist, Schrock, and Mehlman, etc)

By: stopgap

stopgap — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:37:59 -0800

Ic. Democratic. How long are Republicans going to stick to their annoying verbal construction, using "Democrat" as an adjective? It's driving me up the flippin' wall listening to Bush (more than usual).

By: ...possums

...possums — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:38:11 -0800

Holy cow. Come to my house. I'm making tiki drinks for the entire nation!

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:39:15 -0800

armage, so Gates is just a Rummy clone then?

By: fenriq

fenriq — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:40:00 -0800

And America weeps the loss of a great warrior. /sarcasm

By: mazola

mazola — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:40:06 -0800

Gadzooks that press conference is something to behold.

By: fourcheesemac

fourcheesemac — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:40:19 -0800

Happy day. I'm glad they were stubborn about it. I think the Military Times editorials tipped the final balance in the election. Now, subpoenas all around. Let's have a hanging.

By: xthlc

xthlc — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:40:27 -0800

Interesting armage, I hadn't heard much about Gates' backing of Saddam. Then again, there's that famous screencap of Rumsfeld with Mr. Handsome, so maybe that's just what all the kool kids were doing back then.

By: pax digita

pax digita — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:40:42 -0800

I'm predicting this thread is over 500 posts before I watch NewsHour on PBS.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:41:17 -0800

Bush just said Americans didn't understand taxes and security??? too funny

By: nims

nims — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:42:06 -0800

The october surprise, finally.

By: rough ashlar

rough ashlar — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:42:29 -0800

*looks around for the members of the blue who were dissing the idea of the editortial in the army times existing, or such having an effect* *checks under table* Nope, no mea culpas there. *checks under monitor* Nope, none there Wonder where they are? Where are these brave people who were asking for thread deletion because the post was rumor?

By: ericb

ericb — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:43:39 -0800

How long are Republicans going to stick to their annoying verbal construction, using "Democrat" as an adjective? It's a conscious use on their part. They liken it to using the word "liberal" as an aspersion.

By: dances_with_sneetches

dances_with_sneetches — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:44:13 -0800

That's what I was thinking nims. Not very good timing. If Bush had done this in summer with some appropriately mushy excuse, he would have prevented the Democratic landslide.

By: matthewr

matthewr — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:44:37 -0800

Who was the British dude asking a question?

By: Thorzdad

Thorzdad — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:44:53 -0800

Man...the guy is fucking embarrassing to listen to. He's the fucking President, not Hank down at the feed-and-grain store. Could he just once sound like a leader?

By: killy willy

killy willy — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:45:04 -0800

is it just me, or does Bush sound like Larry the Cable Guy during this press conference? "Git stuff done." "Git 'er done." gah.

By: gsteff

gsteff — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:47:18 -0800

And now, Dennis Hassert.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:47:55 -0800

Gates is connected with Bush 1 and Baker--that's it.

By: boo_radley

boo_radley — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:48:09 -0800

That's one sullen, angry executive. Also, the BBC's coverage is so much better than CNN's.

By: ursus_comiter

ursus_comiter — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:48:36 -0800

Oh boy, this means that we have confirmation hearings to look forward to doesn't it?

By: killy willy

killy willy — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:49:41 -0800

jinx, Thorzdad!

By: stopgap

stopgap — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:50:03 -0800

ericb: Oh I know it's conscious. But seriously, are they still going to be saying it in 10 years? 20? 50? It makes me want to punch someone in the face. Which perhaps is their goal.

By: orange swan

orange swan — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:50:17 -0800

[does happy, supportive Canadian dance]

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:50:50 -0800

MT is not official--CNN only just this second projected Tester as winner.

By: etoile

etoile — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:50:51 -0800

Is it wrong that the thought "OMG SQUEE" jumped into my head when I saw this?

By: msali

msali — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:51:39 -0800

i can't believe he asked the terrorists "not to rejoice" at the win of the democrats. fucking shameless posted by yonation at 1:33 PM EST on November 8 You know, I was actually starting to feel sorry for the president until he said that.

By: jmd82

jmd82 — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:52:32 -0800

amberglow: thanks for the links. I still see it as Bush saying, "I won't directly fire them." moreso than anything else. Of course, he may very well have been forced to step down so Bush could save some face. It really makes perfect sense if you think about it: To directly fire Rumsfeld is to admit the war was a total failure (yes, many already think it is, but this is about how Bush perceives the war). However, by issuing a statement that he won't fire Rumsfeld, it offer leeway to forcing his stepping-down and Bush has something to fall back on and say, "Of cooooooooooourse I didn't force him to step down!" If anything, the timing of Bush's statement and Rumsfeld's stepping down makes it look like this was all planned behind closed doors. rough: I still thought it was a lame post regardless. Happy now?

By: dydecker

dydecker — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:52:42 -0800

God Bless the United States of America. Democracy works. It is often quite slow, but comes to the right decision after error. But will your country hold these people accountable?

By: aacheson

aacheson — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:53:10 -0800

I totally agree, Thorzdad. He's so embarassing to listen to. He sounds like an undereducated hick, plus like a little kid throwing a tantrum. Didja hear how fast he started talking when he was in a tight spot? He sounds like he just crawled out from under a rock in Texas. I love to watch him squirm, though. tee hee.

By: mazola

mazola — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:54:36 -0800

It's funny how much more intelligent and thoughtful Bush's statements seem when read by a BBC anchor. Bush needs to learn a British accent, quick.

By: JJ86

JJ86 — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:56:10 -0800

Wow. . . . . . . This is an amazing day. I feel so happy at this moment to see the Bush administration take such a quick and heavy nosedive into the cesspool it created.

By: rbf1138

rbf1138 — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:56:19 -0800

Rumsfeld, out!

By: darkstar

darkstar — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:56:42 -0800

1. Bush said, clearly and definitively, last week that Rummy would stay. He said in the presser today that he knew then that he was considering removing Rummy, but intentionally mislead the reporters so as to not introduce the issue into the election. Hence, the President is admitting to having lied to effect the elections, yes? 2. Bush says that now that the elections are over he's prepared to be bipartisan and wants to meet with Pelosi and work with her. Well, of course he does. The Dems control the house and may control the Senate. Bush HAS to be bipartisan if he wants to get ANYTHING done. Better question: why wasn't he prepared to be bipartisan and meet with Pelosi when she was in the minority party? Clearly, he has no interest in being bipartisan when he isn't forced to be. Bush said in his presser that he values Democrats and will work with them. But in his campaign stops, he regularly castigated Dems in the most strident terms - including as favoring the terrorists - for their positions. So now, when the Dems win control of Congress, he's all smiles and sunshine? Well, good luck with that. Quack!

By: Danf

Danf — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:57:40 -0800

It seems that BBC require RealPlayer for its video feeds. *sigh*

By: peeedro

peeedro — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:58:14 -0800

Didja hear how fast he started talking when he was in a tight spot? I haven't heard him talk so fast in a long time. He also did not give his usual studdering, pausing, meandering delivery. I think he's being medicated with something to improve his concentration and lucidity. Or he got a really good night's sleep last night.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:58:37 -0800

You know what's really stupid about this decision of Bush's? It removed a buffer for Bush--now that Rummy's gone, Bush gets the blame more directly for Iraq (as it should be).

By: MythMaker

MythMaker — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:59:59 -0800

Yay!!!!!!!!!!!

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:01:17 -0800

The only people in the country this move is going to convince is our lame media, i bet--there's no "change the course" until Baker forces it.

By: psmealey

psmealey — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:03:39 -0800

What are the legalities here? Are they trying to sneak a new boy in there that the lame duck GOP congress can confirm? Is that the motivation here? Or, will they have to wait to confirm him until after Jan 1?

By: Sticherbeast

Sticherbeast — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:03:49 -0800

Haw.

By: Saucy Intruder

Saucy Intruder — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:05:27 -0800

Goodnight, funnyman.

By: konolia

konolia — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:07:35 -0800

Even I am glad Rumsfeld is gone. A day late and a dollar short, but still.

By: mazola

mazola — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:08:06 -0800

Clearly, he has no interest in being bipartisan when he isn't forced to be Don't you remember? The Decider is also the Uniter. Sheesh!

By: Skygazer

Skygazer — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:10:20 -0800

"When I came to Washington I had hoped to change the tone of this town" ---GWB Press conference. Uh...yeah right, cos you see he's the reasonable one who want s to find commonality and "work together" for the good of all. instead of being one of the most divisive and destructive political figures in this nations history. Christ the spinning shit never ends. *BARF*

By: rough ashlar

rough ashlar — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:11:17 -0800

rough: I still thought it was a lame post regardless. Happy now? posted by jmd82 at 10:52 AM PST Happy? Naw. The post may blow, but the discussion is where its at. The happiness will come when the next time the 'its sucks' briggade gets beaten with the yardstick of their past analysis. Thanks for asking, however.

By: qvantamon

qvantamon — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:12:52 -0800

The terrorists have already won

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:13:11 -0800

This is Baker's first move? (i think it is--Bush doesn't listen to the people, nor to Congress) Bush must be totally humiliated that the family fixer had to step in again.

By: boo_radley

boo_radley — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:16:19 -0800

also what is up with CNN not acknowledging Colorado? Their crawl never showed CO last night, either.

By: quin

quin — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:17:21 -0800

Here's a thought; Now that Rumsfeld is a private citizen, one that arguably has intimate knowledge of what is currently transpiring on two separate war fronts, more specifically; one that might have knowledge of terrorist activities, can we have him seized as an enemy combatant? I bet it won't take much interrogation at all to get him to reveal all sorts of useful intelligence.

By: MrMoonPie

MrMoonPie — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:17:23 -0800

psmealey, Bush could do a recess appointment, and get a free year for his new guy.

By: GrammarMoses

GrammarMoses — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:18:40 -0800

I'd like to know that something could humiliate that smug bastard.

By: chunking express

chunking express — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:18:43 -0800

Fuck yeah! This is great.

By: HyperBlue

HyperBlue — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:19:06 -0800

What a glorious day! The hits just keep on coming.

By: maryh

maryh — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:30:08 -0800

Heavens to Betsy, here's your ass on a plate, sir! Whee! This day just gets better and better!

By: ericb

ericb — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:34:21 -0800

Bush was for Rumsfeld before he was against him.

By: kingfisher, his musclebound cat

kingfisher, his musclebound cat — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:36:02 -0800

I missed this -- is a video available anywhere? Not real player, please.

By: phirleh

phirleh — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:41:21 -0800

If only he was Frogmarched.

By: NationalKato

NationalKato — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:41:30 -0800

I just returned from lunch and had CNN's main page up on my browser, showing some election results. I hit 'Refresh' and WHAM! There was the blessed Rumsfeld news. Man, I should've bought a lottery ticket last night. Now it's time for everyone to contact their representatives and make sure they don't sleep on these positives - tell them that if there was ever a time to act, it is now. While the Bush administration is on the ropes.

By: jperkins

jperkins — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:42:31 -0800

Speaking of recess appointments, guess whose is up in January...

By: cillit bang

cillit bang — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:45:21 -0800

I like how Bush's explanation for not saying something before the election was "because I wanted to deceive the electorate", or words really not much different.

By: JWright

JWright — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:50:22 -0800

Once I put on a clean pair of pants, I began to wonder, why today? Why just hours after the election, with a few results yet to come in? There's got to be a reason. Because if Bush had done this last week, he'd have maintained control of many more seats, and probably the Senate. To do it today makes it look like a house of cards coming apart. It doesn't project control or strength or decisiveness. And it also exposes his statement of sticking by Rummy last week as a huge gaffe (at best) or a lie. I hope someone digs into this a bit. I'd love to know the inside story.

By: Skygazer

Skygazer — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:53:53 -0800

Speaking of recess appointments, guess whose is up in January... posted by jperkins at 2:42 PM EST on November 8 Damn, that is sweet. This election is going to be the gift that just keeps on giving....

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:57:28 -0800

why today? Why just hours after the election, with a few results yet to come in? It changes the storyline immediately and stops all the good Democratic stuff that would have filled today and tomorrow's news. This was historic, and now the media's all about Rummy instead of about the election victories. I do think Baker forced it tho--but that doesn't explain why today instead of next week or month--this smells of Rove changing the subject, as usual.

By: George_Spiggott

George_Spiggott — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 12:08:14 -0800

It changes the storyline immediately and stops all the good Democratic stuff that would have filled today and tomorrow's news. Other way around, I think: by announcing it amid the storm of election coverage they help reduce people's attention to it and the amount of embarrassment it causes them. They needed a big story to lose this one in.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 12:16:34 -0800

I don't know--since it was announced at 1 there's not one election story on CNN--we're seeing Pelosi and Reid on, but only to talk about Rummy. It's also going to be every headline tomorrow, instead of us taking both houses.

By: punkrockrat

punkrockrat — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 12:17:41 -0800

Yay!

By: graymouser

graymouser — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 12:19:47 -0800

psmealy most likely nailed it: Rumsfeld resigned so his replacement would be confirmed by the lame duck Republican Senate. The Democrats probably had planned investigative hearings that would have forced a resignation anyway, and the confirmation hearings in a Democratic senate would've been much less pleasant. Still, good to hear.

By: mazola

mazola — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 12:21:20 -0800

It's also going to be every headline tomorrow, instead of us taking both houses. That is, if we take both houses. Perhaps the counting can proceed more 'productively' with everyone distracted... < /tinfoil>

By: spock

spock — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 12:26:01 -0800

Oh, they're just getting started. As soon as the recounts in Montana and Virginia confirm wins for the Democrats, Bush better start making plans for impeachment. CNN has his job approval ratings at 35%.

By: Skygazer

Skygazer — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 12:30:43 -0800

I do think Baker forced it tho--but that doesn't explain why today instead of next week or month--this smells of Rove changing the subject, as usual. posted by amberglow at 2:57 PM EST on November 8 Well the armed forces newspapers did demand his resignation on Monday, but what you posit would be in line with Rove rule # 1: Control (or frame) the public narrative at all times. Unless the GOP had pulled this out, Rummy was gone anyway, so why not use his exit to put the spotlight firmly on the White House again, show it to be nimble and responsive and "in control". Show these events to be it's drama. In a film or book whatever, you spend most of your time with the protagonist, not the antogonist. The Bush White house lost this election when the Iraq war became more of a story than the White House of George W. Bush. Anyhow, once the 2007 congress goes on the offensive, the Bush White House is going to be in a state of continual justification for actions past and present, so I think we'll see some incredibly openly sleazy moves to game the system, between now and then.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 12:36:14 -0800

yup, Skygazer....right now on tv is the 2nd Bush press thing of the day.

By: Heywood Mogroot

Heywood Mogroot — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 12:36:38 -0800

Surely this. . .

By: eyeballkid

eyeballkid — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 12:40:44 -0800

It's also going to be every headline tomorrow, instead of us taking both houses. But after that, the Dems will still have both houses.

By: Kickstart70

Kickstart70 — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 13:01:44 -0800

Why just hours after the election, with a few results yet to come in? When an animal is in a weakened state, often it's better for them to play dead. Bush, having just suffered a massive defeat, loses nothing by merging this extra loss with it. Grouped together, the election loss and Rumsfeld's resignation are less damaging than if they were separated by a period of time, in the minds of most people. IOW, it's a good PR move.

By: Kickstart70

Kickstart70 — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 13:08:58 -0800

Oh...and Time is now reporting that Hastert has quit the Repulican leadership race.

By: cenoxo

cenoxo — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 13:21:00 -0800

Rough Ashlar: But why will changing the captain on the Titanic effect the coal fire in the hold and the iceburg which has ripped a hole in the side of the ship? It ain't over 'til it's over, and the old girl's got a lot of momentum yet. Let's hope the U.S. hasn't sideswiped one iceberg only to stay the course and hit a bigger one head-on. Changing captains means that the ship is still underway.

By: muckster

muckster — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:04:29 -0800

International wird der Abschied ebenfalls nicht gerade betrauert.

By: gamera

gamera — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:10:51 -0800

Don't let the doorknob hit you in the ass!

By: randomination

randomination — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:13:03 -0800

Bush needs to learn a British accent, quick. No, he's already got a ventriloquist's dummy for that.

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:15:30 -0800

Buh..buh..but Gannett news papers controls ‘army times’ and it’s not what “the troops” really think, and, but... Yeah. Writing was on the wall.

By: fixedgear

fixedgear — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:31:29 -0800

All the DoD employees in this thread raise their hands. Just me? OK, meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

By: bardic

bardic — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:33:40 -0800

Wow. I really didn't think this was going to happen. Simple question Mr. President -- why have you fired the man who is, in your own words, the most qualified for this job? This job of killing brown people until they cough up a democracy? I'm happy to be wrong though.

By: jfuller

jfuller — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:55:34 -0800

> why have you fired the man who is, in your own words, the most qualified for this job? > This job of killing brown people until they cough up a democracy? Maybe Rumsfeld was the best, but the talent pool is deep and you got to think of the future.

By: found missing

found missing — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:55:46 -0800

Rough Ashlar: But why will changing the captain on the Titanic effect the coal fire in the hold and the iceburg which has ripped a hole in the side of the ship? A better nautical analogy: "So they took up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea: and the sea ceased from her raging." Jonah Ch1. suggested by Ted Koppel on NPR today

By: oxford blue

oxford blue — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:59:04 -0800

Le Roi est mort. Vive le Roi!

By: Effigy2000

Effigy2000 — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:01:07 -0800

So basically the Devil's resigned and he's being replaced by a lesser evil. Well hooray.

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:01:27 -0800

This news will only embiggen the terrorists' resolve. Don't misunderestimate that.

By: rough ashlar

rough ashlar — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:03:37 -0800

It seems Mr. Limbaugh is sad today. I FEEL LIBERATED... I NO LONGER HAVE TO CARRY THE WATER FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T DESERVE IT Audio at the link. Via Drudge.

By: nola

nola — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:06:04 -0800

well why shouldn't tehy be embiggend. i'm feel embiggend , lets be biggen for a change.

By: bardic

bardic — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:09:58 -0800

Yeah, I just indulged in watching some FOX News. In all sincerity, it was absolutely hilarious.

By: matimer

matimer — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:33:23 -0800

Finally Rumsfeld can go back to his true calling helping evil pharmaceutical products like NutraSweet get on the market

By: kcds

kcds — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 15:58:59 -0800

i can't believe he asked the terrorists "not to rejoice" at the win of the democrats. fucking shameless I wonder if it's ever going to either occur to that cretin that it's not just "The Democrats" that won, it's the 50 fucking percent of the voting population that won, and that by dissing "The Democrat Party" (and yes, that construction is deliberate, and yes, it pisses me off, and yes, it's meant to) he's dissing half the fucking voting populace? Some fucking uniter. That fucking retarded dry-alcoholic fucking shitheel cunt bastard. I loathe, detest and revile that man.

By: nebulawindphone

nebulawindphone — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 16:10:48 -0800

fucking shitheel cunt You know, I've got a very vivid imagination and I'm still not sure how that's supposed to work. I'm sure it'll come to me at 3 AM, though. TIA.

By: pax digita

pax digita — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 16:16:41 -0800

Welp, I was way overly optimistic on how many posts by now...

By: matteo

matteo — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 16:23:00 -0800

dry-alcoholic says who? the dry part I mean

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 16:24:50 -0800

It's true, matteo. The Bush Whitehouse is staunchly anti-vermouth.

By: ontic

ontic — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 16:31:07 -0800

Some fucking uniter. That fucking retarded dry-alcoholic fucking shitheel cunt bastard. I loathe, detest and revile that man. But kcds, tell us how you really feel. :-)

By: donnagirl

donnagirl — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:10:28 -0800

So, resigned or no, he's still coming to Kansas State University tomorrow as part of the Landon Lecture series. If you're curious as to what he could possibly say now, you can watch it live online at 11AM CST. I'll be interested to see the response he gets from the 500-ish special invited guests from nearby Ft. Riley.

By: 235w103

235w103 — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:20:20 -0800

I'm actually sort of amazed; the timing here is hilarious. Quick, start firing people until Americans like us again!

By: dglynn

dglynn — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:26:01 -0800

So, Limbaugh is sick of carrying these sorry bastards on his broad manly shoulders, is he? Imagine how the rest of us feel, you shitmitten. Plus, he just admitted he is willing to support the wrong people at the wrong time for purely partisan reasons, and accuse others of putting party before country at the same time. Transparent tool, give him some more rope.

By: caddis

caddis — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:57:10 -0800

evil pharmaceutical products like NutraSweet thank you mr. wonderful

By: bardic

bardic — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 18:00:46 -0800

The Limbaugh thing is weird. Even for him. I'm sure a lot of his listeners were confused.

By: elpapacito

elpapacito — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 18:18:56 -0800

I'm sure a lot of his listeners were confused. Yes a lot of his listeners are confused, no doubt about that. Still who's going to present Rummy the bill ?

By: rxrfrx

rxrfrx — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 18:22:59 -0800

Not Yours!

By: eddydamascene

eddydamascene — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 18:59:09 -0800

Speaking of recess appointments, guess whose is up in January... Clinton for UN ambassador!

By: rough ashlar

rough ashlar — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 19:10:20 -0800

I'm sure a lot of his listeners were confused. Ya sure they arn't already confused cats?

By: unSane

unSane — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 19:13:07 -0800

LOL results of searching this thread: Find: Dios Not found

By: clevershark

clevershark — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 19:27:54 -0800

A bad week.

By: HyperBlue

HyperBlue — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 20:05:14 -0800

Limberger Carries no more H20. Celebrate!

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 20:21:18 -0800

Mehlman is gone by next week too

By: afu

afu — Wed, 08 Nov 2006 21:36:00 -0800

This is horrible news, I'm afraid we are going to here the phrase "Secertary Liberman" quite soon, and see the control of the senate pass back to the republicans.

By: dreamsign

dreamsign — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 00:51:11 -0800

Looking for footage on Youtube, I stumbled across the McGovern question and response again. What a fucking scumbucket. Good riddance.

By: psmealey

psmealey — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 03:40:14 -0800

I'm afraid we are going to here the phrase "Secertary Liberman" quite soon, and see the control of the senate pass back to the republicans. I keep hearing this, but I think this will never happen, for the following reasons: 1. Lieberman just got re-elected to another six year term in the Senate. Why would he give that up to be SecDef on a lame duck sinking ship for two years? 2. Lieberman, delusional megalomaniac that he is, could vote with the Administration 90% of the time, but he still considers himself a Democrat. 3. As such, Lieberman has a lot of fence mending to do in the party. I kept hearing the other night how Phony Joe might be tempted to stick it to his former colleagues, but I think his reputation is very damaged right now. And despite his solid tin ear, even he knows that he's not going to get much traction by going completely over the GOP, and particularly not to join the Bush Administration, which now seems to be detested in a bi-partisan manner.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:57:47 -0800

CNN edited out the Mehlman outing

By: ericb

ericb — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 14:28:30 -0800

Mehlman to leave RNC.

By: ericb

ericb — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 14:32:24 -0800

Real Time with Bill Maher should be interesting tomorrow night:"MAHER: "Frank Rich wrote about this a couple of weeks ago. He said, yes we've heard about Mark Foley...but he said, that's just the beginning of it. A lot of the chiefs of staff, the people who really run the underpinnings of the Republican party, are gay. I don't want to mention names but I will Friday night. KING: You will Friday night? MAHER: There's a couple people everybody in Washington knows, who run the Republican party KING: You will name them? MAHER: I wouldn't be the first. I'd get sued if I was the first, but...you know, Ken Mehlman, okay there's one I think people have talked about. I don't think he's denied it when people have suggested it. He doesn't say..."

By: amberglow

amberglow — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:15:43 -0800

I just got a cease-and-desist letter from YouTube, see below, regarding my CNN footage I posted. The footage, you’ll recall, was from Larry King Live last night in which Bill Maher outed Republican Party chair Ken Mehlman as gay. It seems that CNN has suddenly decided that it no longer wants bloggers, or YouTube, posting any of its video, which is kind of surprising since I always thought we were doing a CNN a favor by constantly touting their network. Apparently I was wrong. NOTE: You can still see the entire video on Huff Post. CNN has also now edited the official transcript of Larry King Live, so that no one will ever know what really happened. ...

By: rxrfrx

rxrfrx — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:46:01 -0800

amberglow, the WorldNetDaily story linked in that Americablog post you linked is fantastic. They put quotation marks (scare quotes?) around every instance of the word GAY because it's way dumber than HOMOSEXUAL which they use without quotes. Oh man.

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:59:45 -0800

“OK, meet the new boss, same as the old boss.” posted by fixedgear Actually, exactly what I was thinking. And operationally, the same. But it’s a heavy political statement, no matter what the protests by the POTUS, et.al. I’m sorry, it’d be better with Rumsfeld?

By: homunculus

homunculus — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 17:23:19 -0800

Groups to Seek War Crimes Charges Against Rumsfeld

By: amberglow

amberglow — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 17:33:55 -0800

here's that wnd thing: RNC chairman a closet 'gay,' charges Bill Maher--HBO star plans to out other top homosexual Republicans what's really weird is that HBO is part of AOL Time Warner -- just like CNN is.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 20:17:59 -0800

Daily Show did Rummy tonight--very good (and don't miss the space camp thing after--hysterical!)

By: taosbat

taosbat — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:19:56 -0800

Charges Sought Against Rumsfeld Over Prison Abuse

By: quin

quin — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:40:23 -0800

taosbat : Charges Sought Against Rumsfeld Over Prison Abuse You know you've fucked up when Germany is accusing you of war crimes.

By: taosbat

taosbat — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:15:26 -0800

...&, Time prints it.

By: ericb

ericb — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:47:13 -0800

Andrew Sullivan -- Rumsfeld's War Crimes

"We have news of the first attempted prosecution of the defense secretary for authorizing torture. You could see this coming. At least, I did, and Bush did. The case is coherent, as I pointed out last July. Rumsfeld had better not travel abroad for a very long while; or he could be arrested. Same goes for Gonzales and the other war criminals in this administration."

By: amberglow

amberglow — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:34:58 -0800

Can you prosecute private citizens in The Hague tho? Even if they were part of an administration that committed and ordered the war crimes? Do they have subpoena power all over the Earth?

By: amberglow

amberglow — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:37:16 -0800

and as for Germany--they might say they have universal jurisdiction, but they realistically don't, i don't think.

By: quin

quin — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:58:16 -0800

amberglow : and as for Germany--they might say they have universal jurisdiction, but they realistically don't, i don't think. Wasn't Henry Kissinger prevented from traveling abroad for fears that he would be arrested for war crimes? Perhaps Rumsfeld will find himself in a similar position. Germany might not have universal jurisdiction, but I'd be willing to bet that if they find Rumsfeld guilty, and he goes on a speaking tour of europe, Interpol might be willing to cooperate in his apprehension. [Of course, I'm dreaming here, but come on, tell me that wouldn't be great?]

By: quin

quin — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:00:09 -0800

Oh wow. That was my one thousandth comment. Which makes this one thousand and one.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:05:38 -0800

but Kissinger is exactly the point--he never was prosecuted for anything, anywhere--not even here. Not being allowed to set foot in Germany is not like a warcrimes trial and conviction. and congrats--big mouth like me : >

By: quin

quin — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:37:38 -0800

Oh, I agree. I would love to see that man behind bars, but since the likelihood on that happening is pretty slim, I could be marginally consoled by the fact that he was essentially exiled from Europe. It's not much, but I like the idea that an entire continent rejected him. (This of course has me operating on the assumption that Interpol would play along and that Germany's economic partners would want to stay in her good graces.) If nothing else it would be an interesting exercise of power to see how the US would react to having one of our staunchest allies (the European Union) stand against us. I mean, if they had Rumsfeld in custody, would we invade to get him back? And how badly would that go against us? Since I really doubt anything will come of this, it's just an entertaining intellectual exercise to wonder what would happen.

By: taosbat

taosbat — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:35:23 -0800

I hope he decides to live at one of his other properties, like the one where he's neighbors with other war criminals back east. I don't know what I'd do if I crossed paths with him at the grocery store or something...I don't see how it could end well.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 20:51:49 -0800

... Somewhere, some country is going to want to arrest Donald Rumsfeld. International law practically compels it. Why not take him into custody now, here? ... I think we need an arrest warrant for him here. Law enforcement should be taking them all into custody.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 21:02:56 -0800

what an murderous piece of shit Rummy is: ... the military is ill-suited for imposing US will on violent extremists ... yet he sent over 100,000 of our troops to Iraq, knowing that we would be facing violent extremists.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 21:34:55 -0800

after Rummy, Cheney in a Box

By: owhydididoit

owhydididoit — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 21:53:23 -0800

The Jurist Contributing Editor Marjorie Cohn says he should and will be held accountable.

By: owhydididoit

owhydididoit — Fri, 10 Nov 2006 21:54:01 -0800

~~The~~ :(

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sat, 11 Nov 2006 06:49:00 -0800

How is Germany going to get him? Kidnap him? Send German cops? Will they try him in absentia?

By: taosbat

taosbat — Sat, 11 Nov 2006 08:34:17 -0800

My guess, amberglow: if the suit is successful in kicking off a criminal investigation and prosecution, they'll end up demanding Rummy's presence in court and stand pat. My hope: by that time, we will have rescinded the Military Commissions Act and our own investigations and prosecutions will be in full swing, rendering the German actions moot.

By: cenoxo

cenoxo — Sat, 11 Nov 2006 08:42:23 -0800

Bush Says Vote Didn't Change Commitment to Terror War [...or Rumsfeld's resignation.]

By: quin

quin — Sat, 11 Nov 2006 09:32:16 -0800

My guess is that they would have to try him in absentia. He strikes me as the kind of person that doesn't believe the laws of other countries apply to him. Nor do I really believe that the current administration would compel him to go (for much the same reason). The hubris he has demonstrated in the past suggests to me that this is a man who doesn't believe that anyone would dare to arrest him, and I doubt he would ever expect the European Union to take a unilateral action against him. So, in keeping with the theme of my hypothetical; he is tried and found guilty. A couple of months later he is invited to France to speak about his insights and experiences. When he lands he is taken into custody by Interpol and extradited back to Germany. The US is now placed into a position of having to decide to take action against our allies, or accept their decision; something that would, in essence, validate their claims of against us.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sat, 11 Nov 2006 18:50:14 -0800

I don't think any European country would really do it, except the country that tried him, and i don't think they would bother doing it in absentia, knowing it would be toothless.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 16:24:53 -0800

really good thing by Greenwald on the German court thing: ... There is a responsibility to assess those powers as a general principle -- not only when wielded by those whom one likes against those whom one dislikes, but to assess their potential for abuse and how they might be used by different governments towards different ends. ... If we don't like Bush grabbing and assuming "unlimited power" all over the world and stuff, how can we be for Germany claiming unlimited jurisdiction all by itself, without any connection to Germany?

By: taosbat

taosbat — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 18:24:49 -0800

Hmmm, interesting point, amberglow... So, it's either every nation for itself, any which Hobbesian way, or we agree upon a chosen seat of legal power among all nations, is it?

By: amberglow

amberglow — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 04:38:43 -0800

yup--and i say the ICC and/or UN are it--but we'd have to make membership mandatory like the UN is (maybe fold the ICC into the UN so that you can't opt out?)

By: amberglow

amberglow — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:06:49 -0800

oh, there is a German connection to Gitmo, but i don't know if he's part of their lawsuit.