Comments on: Where's the Love?

Where's the Love?

aiq — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:03:16 -0800

will be determined in court it seems. Procol Harum's Gary Booker and Keith Reid, credited composers, are sued by organist Matthew Fischer. Lennon loved it. Perhaps you want to sing or play it?

By: jonmc

jonmc — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:09:37 -0800

*skips light fandango, does cartwheels cross the floor*

By: WolfDaddy

WolfDaddy — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:17:20 -0800

I love Annie Lennox's cover of this song. But then in my opinion, she could cover the phone book and I'd listen to it.

By: Faint of Butt

Faint of Butt — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:19:24 -0800

*calls out for more, regardless of how seasick jonmc may feel* Gods, I love that organ solo.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:24:45 -0800

Maybe Bach can be dug out of his grave as a material witness.

By: George_Spiggott

George_Spiggott — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:34:41 -0800

My favorite reference to it is the bit with the cathedral pipe organ in The Commitments. As for the merits of the case, well, if you start crediting co-authorship to instrumentalists on the basis of the riffs, arrangements and original phrasing they brought to the performance, you're gonna owe a shitload of back royalties to a shitload of band members and sessionists.

By: Faint of Butt

Faint of Butt — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:49:14 -0800

My favorite reference to it is the bit with the cathedral pipe organ in The Commitments. What a great scene. "We skipped the light fantastic..." "Skipped the light fandango!" "Fandango..."

By: jokeefe

jokeefe — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:50:30 -0800

Blazecock Pileon has it exactly. It's a wholesale lift from Air on a G string. And jonmc, try to control the one liner that, should you read this thread, is just dying to be said.

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:59:08 -0800

Along with Bach, I’d go with Chaucer.

By: yhbc

yhbc — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:59:50 -0800

There are three songs my wife has forbidden me to ever play; this one, Free Bird, and the Animals' version of The House of the Rising Sun. I plan on leaving sealed instructions in my Will that all three be played at my funeral.

By: owenkun

owenkun — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:02:59 -0800

[whiny elitist]"Whiter Shade of Pale? I liked it back when it was called Air in G."[/whiny elitist] On preview, damnit, beaten to the punch.

By: cortex

cortex — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:21:37 -0800

Well, it's not wholesale. Clear homage, but that's all. I heard Whiter Shade of Pale at some point in my early childhood and it must have left an impression, because years later, when I was perhaps 10 or 12, it came on in the car and I was incredibly struck by it as familiar and lovely. I remember making my family hush up and turn up the radio, which was, at the time, odd for me. Later, I found out what it was, and one day decided to buy a copy of the album on vinyl. I didn't listen to it very often, though—there was still some of that magic and mystery tied to this song that I'd been vaguely hoping to hear for all those years. It's a very nice song, and something about that recording is just stupendous, though I know I can't remove the weird emotional attachment from my perception of it. However, the too-fast fade at the very end is just a monstrous thing to do to such an otherwise great recording. I keep telling myself I'll cover it one of these days, and I keep not doing it.

By: Smart Dalek

Smart Dalek — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:24:16 -0800

Tom Albinoni's Adaigo was way cooler.

By: StickyCarpet

StickyCarpet — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:25:35 -0800

I've been ketting a kick out of this version. You'd think, if you were going to record a well known song, especially if English was your second language, that you would get a copy of the readily available lyrics, instead of transcribing them they way they sound to you, wouldn't you?

By: pyramid termite

pyramid termite — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:32:08 -0800

it only took him 39 years to figure out he co-wrote the song? Maybe Bach can be dug out of his grave as a material witness. ah, they tried that ... there was a time when he had many, many children because his organ didn't have any stops ... now, alas, there's not even enough there to fill a g-string ... you can't get a handel on it ... if it was the olympics, you wouldn't even win the brahms with it they'll just have to de-liszt him ...

By: jonmc

jonmc — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:40:32 -0800

It's a wholesale lift from Air on a G string. mmmm, g-string air....

By: ob

ob — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:41:56 -0800

StickyCarpet thanks for that stunning version. I like the line when he says: "And although my ass were open, They were open." Cryptic and porny -who could ask for more?

By: ob

ob — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:45:04 -0800

I meant sings. He sings the song funnily enough...

By: The Bellman

The Bellman — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:46:36 -0800

Wait, wait, who used Bach's hair for a g-string? [/Shickele]

By: Ironmouth

Ironmouth — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:47:24 -0800

I always wondered who is the writer of the song. In my band, I usually write the chords and the lyrics and sing it. But the bass and drum parts are written by my bandmates. Who wrote the song?

By: jonp72

jonp72 — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:01:57 -0800

This interview with Matthew Fisher on a Procol Harum fan site appears to undercut his own case: Interviewer: Can you remember the first time you have listened at AWSoP? In what form was the song? Only the singing melody? and how came the idea to continue the organ melody through the song? Matthew Fisher: I first heard it at one of the early rehearsals when I first joined the band. It was more or less like the record (if you switch out the organ). I just sat in and started playing the ideas that came to me. [Emphasis added.] Fisher basically admits that the song was already composed and close to its final form before he joined Procol Harum. At most, he added a few keyboard riffs derived from public domain compositions by Bach, including Air on a G String, Mass in B Minor, and Sleepers Awake.

By: ericb

ericb — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:09:40 -0800

Wait, wait, who used Bach's hair for a g-string? [/Shickele] Ah, memories of P.D.Q. Bach!

By: pax digita

pax digita — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:17:24 -0800

I think the bass line in "Whiter" does the same thingy as in the Bach air -- William Gibson used a phrase describing the technique as the title of a chapter of one of his novels; Idoru maybe? I don't have the novel handy. But our MSM (minister of sacred music), who's been playing Bach and other classical music since he was a boy (and he's well up in his 60s now), gave me a long detailed, musicological explanation I wish I could transcribe of why the organ line in "Whiter" is similar but not really the same as the continuo lines Bach often wrote. Wish I could add more detail than that other than to say he had me pretty well convinced it wasn't a wholesale lift. "My Sweet Lord"/"He's So Fine," anyone?

By: jrossi4r

jrossi4r — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:19:34 -0800

This is one of those songs that I love but refuse to own because I like the happy surprise of hearing it on the radio.

By: pax digita

pax digita — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:25:56 -0800

Tom Albinoni's Adaigo was way cooler. My favorite is when Victor Borge made a reference in passing to "Tony Vivaldi And His All-Girl Orchestra."

By: davejay

davejay — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:40:20 -0800

I always wondered who is the writer of the song. In my band, I usually write the chords and the lyrics and sing it. But the bass and drum parts are written by my bandmates. Who wrote the song? You. The bass and drum parts are part of the arrangement, but not part of the melody. Arguably their contribution, while important, is to the performance of the song, not the song itself -- if someone decided to cover your song, they would certainly use the same lyrics, chords and basic melody, but the bass and drum parts would be different, if not absent altogether (an "unplugged" version, say.) Even if a bass or drum part, as originally played, is part of the song's "signature" sound, that doesn't get you a writer credit -- production and arrangement credits can be doled out in that case. At the same time, if you write a song and a singer makes changes to the melody as they perform, they're not the writer of the song, either. It is the basic melody, chods and lyrics that make up a song.

By: snofoam

snofoam — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:48:01 -0800

Metafilter: cryptic and porny -who could ask for more?

By: JBennett

JBennett — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:53:14 -0800

I've always loved this song. A lot of the power of WSoP is due to the incredible production. A certain portion of the genius behind this track is due to the incredible Leslie speaker.

By: JBennett

JBennett — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:54:12 -0800

I've always loved this song. A lot of the power of WSoP is due to the incredible production. A certain portion of the genius behind this track is due to the amazing Leslie speaker.

By: JBennett

JBennett — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:54:51 -0800

I've always loved this song. A lot of the power of WSoP is due to the incredible production. A certain portion of the genius behind this track is due to the amazing Leslie speaker.

By: cortex

cortex — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:58:43 -0800

LESLIE SPEAKERS ARE AWESOME

By: JBennett

JBennett — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:01:30 -0800

Ummm… oops. Those first two can be deleted. Sorry everyone, I ruined the thread. •

By: dhartung

dhartung — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:10:59 -0800

This song represents -- I must be honest -- the borderline after which I begin to detest prog. I know I'm not alone.

By: dobbs

dobbs — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:15:20 -0800

Perhaps you want to sing or play it? If there is an option to erase it from my brain and never have to hear it again... I'll take it!

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:19:56 -0800

(1) I'd really listened to the words until just now. What an infernally silly song. Fun. (2) I have to admit that, until just now, I'd never really understood that they were skipping the light fandango, as in walking trippingly, rather than skipping the light fandango, as in opting out of it. "No thanks, waiter, we'll skip the light fandango tonight and just move on to the cartwheels across the floor." Which would've made the song sillier, so I'm sad that I was wrong.

By: drezdn

drezdn — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:33:03 -0800

By: dobbs

dobbs — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:35:49 -0800

Fisher basically admits that the song was already composed and close to its final form before he joined Procol Harum. At most, he added a few keyboard riffs derived from public domain compositions by Bach, including Air on a G String, Mass in B Minor, and Sleepers Awake. I think Fisher's point is that to many people's ears (my own included), the song is nothing without the organ and that were it not for the organ the song would not have been the hit it was. Nor would it indear people as much as it does. Or drive people like me batshit insane from having to hear it while shopping for groceries. I completely agree with him.

By: dobbs

dobbs — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:47:10 -0800

erm... endear.

By: Afroblanco

Afroblanco — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:53:40 -0800

What a beautiful song. Back in college, when I used to do such things, I made a mix CD that was supposed to describe the events in a person's life. The "death and afterlife sequence" was WSOP followed by Santo and Johnny's Sleepwalk. As far as authorship credits, I'm willing to accept that Procol Harum cribbed it from somebody, considering that they never made anything particularly worthwhile prior to or following WSOP.

By: JBennett

JBennett — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:08:28 -0800

Afroblanco, that's not the issue at all. This battle for authorship is happening among band members. Also, PH might note have had another song as great as WSoP, but they certainly had a knack for long catchy inspired numbers.

By: Julie

Julie — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:35:47 -0800

Loved how the song oozed through this fabulous bummer by Martin Scorsese.

By: Jimbob

Jimbob — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:04:55 -0800

Ironmouth: I always wondered who is the writer of the song. In my band, I usually write the chords and the lyrics and sing it. But the bass and drum parts are written by my bandmates. Who wrote the song? Davejay: You. I've had a band break up over this very issue. The singer insisted that he was the writer of the songs, with me as well because I wrote some of the guitar parts. The rest of us inisisted that the bass player and drummer deserved equal credit, if only to keep things simple and fair. It seems stupid to declare that, say, percussion instruments don't count as "writing music". If you can notate it, it's "written music". (It was completely besides the point that we weren't selling our music to anyone or making any money off it. It was the principle of the thing.) And it seems it's often the best way to keep people happy. U2, for instance, has followed this practice from day one. "Lyrics by Paul Hewson, Music by U2". Split four ways. I don't see them fighting about things.

By: Jimbob

Jimbob — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:07:40 -0800

(By which I mean to say, I can't understand saying "this set of instruments and elements of musical composition count as songs, these don't". Percussion ensembles, experimental musicians, might be surprised to hear that their music materialized out of thin air and none of them were involved in "writing" it.)

By: StickyCarpet

StickyCarpet — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:10:46 -0800

Always thought it was cool the way Keith Reid, the lyricist, was a fully fledged band member, with his picture on the album covers, his own fans and groupies, etc.

By: Huplescat

Huplescat — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:29:24 -0800

I have to kick in with WolfDaddy. Annie Lennox’s cover is fantastic...“Medusa”. Chuckles’ Janis post yesterday made think of Aretha, Annie and Gillian Welch

By: jam_pony

jam_pony — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:26:15 -0800

As far as authorship credits, I'm willing to accept that Procol Harum cribbed it from somebody, considering that they never made anything particularly worthwhile prior to or following WSOP. -- Afroblanco at 10:53 PM "Conquistador"! Off topic: In the liner notes, Robin Trower is credited as guitarist on the track, but I can't hear a guitar anywhere in the mix at all.

By: pyramid termite

pyramid termite — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:18:55 -0800

And it seems it's often the best way to keep people happy. here's the real reason for this ... the royalties that a band gets as performers don't amount to crap unless you're selling millions of units ... the royalties that the songwriters get tend to be more substantial - in fact, if the song keeps getting played on the radio, the money keeps piling up ... so, mr songwriter is raking in the dough 10 years later and mr bass player and mr drummer aren't making a dime a lot of bands don't like this ... and a lot of songwriters, even those who don't have to, like bob seger, have figured out that if you want a band to stick around and help you with your career, you give them a cut ... it might not be on the record label, but it's part of the contract, that the bass player and drummer get a cut ... it keeps them happy and makes them more interested in contribuiting and sticking around back in the 60s, it wasn't done that way ... and when people figured out where the real money was and who it was going to, all of a sudden, everybody wanted to write songs ... i think it's really lame that matthew fisher has waited so long to make a claim ... and the claim itself is pretty dubious ... he's applying contemporary band business methods to what was done in the 60s ... unless he can show that the published music has his organ invention as part of the composition, he's s o l ... Robin Trower is credited as guitarist on the track, but I can't hear a guitar anywhere in the mix at all. according to allmusic.com, it was ray royer on guitar on "whiter shade" ... and it's there, just covered up by the snare and the piano, as he's basically playing on the downbeats and no place else ... (different drummer, too)

By: LarryC

LarryC — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:28:44 -0800

There are a half-dozen PC songs that very nearly redeem that whole art-school, over-produced, super-indulgent strain of some 70s British rock.

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:40:02 -0800

pyramid termite: "according to allmusic.com, it was ray royer on guitar on "whiter shade" ..." Maybe on "Whiter Shade," but not on "Conquistador," which is what he was talking about.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:01:18 -0800

I'm willing to accept that Procol Harum cribbed it from somebody, considering that they never made anything particularly worthwhile prior to or following WSOP. "Conquistador" "A Salty Dog" and Trower did some good dtuff on his own like 'Bridge Of Sighs.'

By: krinklyfig

krinklyfig — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:06:33 -0800

There are a half-dozen PC songs ... What does that mean? I seriously can't figure out what PC stands for ... There was a time I really liked the super-indulgent prog rock of the '70s, mostly for the bravado and musicianship. It's not as appealing now, but I still love hearing Bill Bruford and Chris Squire play together.

By: pyramid termite

pyramid termite — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:12:13 -0800

Maybe on "Whiter Shade," but not on "Conquistador," which is what he was talking about. i assumed it was "whiter shade" because the guitar on "conquistador" is pretty up there in the mix

By: jam_pony

jam_pony — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:35:38 -0800

I meant on WSOP. I will listen again :)

By: tehloki

tehloki — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:37:22 -0800

I hate Annie Lennox's cover of this song. But then in my opinion, if she was on the cover of the phone book I'd read it. fixed

By: anotherpanacea

anotherpanacea — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:42:40 -0800

YouTube Annie Lennox cover

By: notmtwain

notmtwain — Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:51:48 -0800

The sheet music is a little more recognizable and playable in this version from musicnotes.com.

By: tehloki

tehloki — Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:30:03 -0800

Oh god, the YouTube link reminded me of just how annoying Lennox's version is. It doesn't matter how good her voice is; she's singing over top of a fucking MIDI file or something.

By: wobh

wobh — Tue, 14 Nov 2006 02:38:31 -0800

It's hard for me to remember this song without conflating it with "Don't Dream It's Over" by Crowded House. Sometimes, life is hell.

By: jonp72

jonp72 — Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:25:40 -0800

This song was played at my uncle's funeral. As a general life lesson, having a song played at your funeral that may occassionally pop up on oldies radio will cause your relatives to think of you whenever they hear the song. Yes, but I thought it was in really poor taste when A Whiter Shade of Pale was playing on the Muzak during the memorial service and viewing for extremely pale-skinned Irish grandmother. Fortunately, nobody was as adept at playing Name That Tune with the Muzak as I was.

By: MetalDog

MetalDog — Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:08:53 -0800

I never heard the Annie Lennox version before. Does anyone else find a female cover of this song a little incongruous, given the story the lyrics convey? Maybe its just me.

By: nj_subgenius

nj_subgenius — Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:39:27 -0800

Defining moment in 1967!