плохо!
November 28, 2006 6:36 PM Subscribe
The skyline of St. Petersburg, Russia will be radically altered for the first time in 300 years. "Gazprom City, a proposed complex of stylish modern buildings that evoke, among other things, a gas-fueled flame, a strand of DNA and a lady’s high-heeled shoe, would sit on a historic site on the Neva River." Though the designs are truly something to behold, many who live in the historic city aren't having it.
That link doesn't point out that it's the fourth building from the left. In black and white. And it's tetris.
posted by SmileyChewtrain at 6:53 PM on November 28, 2006
posted by SmileyChewtrain at 6:53 PM on November 28, 2006
Actually, I kind of agree with them. They should look to the west-ish to see how things are done. I have to say I'm pleased with the urge to keep things short in Helsinki, and Tallinn for one has its old stuff clearly separated from the new, so they can get away with taller buildings while not destroying their old town.
Doesn't mean there aren't ugly short buildings though...
I kind of wonder if a large part of the outcry is that architects just disagree with the look. Maybe if they tried building something that is more integrated with the feel of the city, it wouldn't be as bad (although, it seems to be a height issue too.)
posted by taursir at 6:54 PM on November 28, 2006
Doesn't mean there aren't ugly short buildings though...
I kind of wonder if a large part of the outcry is that architects just disagree with the look. Maybe if they tried building something that is more integrated with the feel of the city, it wouldn't be as bad (although, it seems to be a height issue too.)
posted by taursir at 6:54 PM on November 28, 2006
Isn't there a small problem, what with St. Petersburg being built on what basically used to be marshlands?
posted by clevershark at 6:58 PM on November 28, 2006
posted by clevershark at 6:58 PM on November 28, 2006
Don't worry St. Petersburgers, if the corruption doesn't put these plans on indefinite suspension, the construction will be so shoddy that they'll have to tear them down in a few years anyway!
posted by Pollomacho at 6:59 PM on November 28, 2006
posted by Pollomacho at 6:59 PM on November 28, 2006
Of course one had to assume there would be a Liebeskind design somewhere in there. They do know that if it's chosen it'll end up years behind schedule and looking nothing like the original drawings, yeah?
posted by clevershark at 7:00 PM on November 28, 2006
posted by clevershark at 7:00 PM on November 28, 2006
Hmm.. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about Herzog...
posted by Jeff_Larson at 7:17 PM on November 28, 2006
posted by Jeff_Larson at 7:17 PM on November 28, 2006
The Liebskind design actually impressed me for being refreshingly non-phallic.
posted by gsteff at 7:23 PM on November 28, 2006
posted by gsteff at 7:23 PM on November 28, 2006
It is nice-looking, but if nothing else was learned from the "Freedom Tower" debacle it's that Liebskind just doesn't know how to design skyscrapers.
His idea for topping his original FT design was to basically put an unstructured glass box on top of the real building, with no reinforcements at all.
posted by clevershark at 7:26 PM on November 28, 2006
His idea for topping his original FT design was to basically put an unstructured glass box on top of the real building, with no reinforcements at all.
posted by clevershark at 7:26 PM on November 28, 2006
The Liebskind looks incredibly impractical. It looks like a shoe, and that's neat for a bit. But surely there is a better way to practice innovative architecture and simultaneously make good use of the space.
posted by subtle-t at 7:30 PM on November 28, 2006
posted by subtle-t at 7:30 PM on November 28, 2006
Is there a way to view the gazprom-city.info link in the main article in English?
posted by flarbuse at 7:53 PM on November 28, 2006
posted by flarbuse at 7:53 PM on November 28, 2006
Isn't there a small problem, what with St. Petersburg being built on what basically used to be marshlands?
They put the foundation on bedrock. Or whatever else there is under the marshlands.
I don't object to any of these designs per se, and I think it should be up to the St. Petersburgers to say what happens (probably it's decided by corruption, though).
I can imagine several ways that a skyscraper design, even one of the presented ones, could be modified to be more in keeping with old St. Petersburg (say, goldenrod and flax coloration), but I don't think you can get around it being bigger.
I love the idea of preserving the old, but I also believe in historic preservation through adaptive reuse. That basically means finding an economically viable way to keep a building (or a group of buildings) from being demolished. In terms of a city, the same thing applies. If St. Petersburg had planned a separate district for modern development that would be one thing. That's probably not possible at this point.
Liebskind just doesn't know how to design skyscrapers.
He only did the concept. Childs did the design.
His idea for topping his original FT design was to basically put an unstructured glass box on top of the real building, with no reinforcements at all.
His concept was for a mast enclosed by glass. We build masts that tall all the time. In any case, there was never any engineering work done on that concept. It was by far a better-looking building than is now under construction.
posted by dhartung at 7:56 PM on November 28, 2006
They put the foundation on bedrock. Or whatever else there is under the marshlands.
I don't object to any of these designs per se, and I think it should be up to the St. Petersburgers to say what happens (probably it's decided by corruption, though).
I can imagine several ways that a skyscraper design, even one of the presented ones, could be modified to be more in keeping with old St. Petersburg (say, goldenrod and flax coloration), but I don't think you can get around it being bigger.
I love the idea of preserving the old, but I also believe in historic preservation through adaptive reuse. That basically means finding an economically viable way to keep a building (or a group of buildings) from being demolished. In terms of a city, the same thing applies. If St. Petersburg had planned a separate district for modern development that would be one thing. That's probably not possible at this point.
Liebskind just doesn't know how to design skyscrapers.
He only did the concept. Childs did the design.
His idea for topping his original FT design was to basically put an unstructured glass box on top of the real building, with no reinforcements at all.
His concept was for a mast enclosed by glass. We build masts that tall all the time. In any case, there was never any engineering work done on that concept. It was by far a better-looking building than is now under construction.
posted by dhartung at 7:56 PM on November 28, 2006
For anyone interested in where this lies with respect to the rest of the city, here is a view from google maps. From what I understand from the article, it will be across the Neva River from the Smolny Cathedral. That would place it to the right of the river in this picture, north of where that channel/tributary rejoins.
Incidentally, looking around St. Petersburg a little has fascinated me. If I lived closer, I'd be trying to schedule a trip there.
posted by pinespree at 8:26 PM on November 28, 2006
Incidentally, looking around St. Petersburg a little has fascinated me. If I lived closer, I'd be trying to schedule a trip there.
posted by pinespree at 8:26 PM on November 28, 2006
This just stinks of "homeowners' association" to me.
posted by tehloki at 8:58 PM on November 28, 2006
posted by tehloki at 8:58 PM on November 28, 2006
Most of these designs are cruelly ridiculous at best, and absurd showboating at worst. Why do architects - sorry, starchitects - feel the need to continually reinvent the wheel? That doesn't mean we need to stick with doric columns and buildings that crudely ape traditional vernacular, but for God's sake, that area underneath the shoe building is just going to be a cold, blasted waste where the living will envy the dead.
posted by deafmute at 9:00 PM on November 28, 2006 [2 favorites]
posted by deafmute at 9:00 PM on November 28, 2006 [2 favorites]
Incidentally, looking around St. Petersburg a little has fascinated me. If I lived closer, I'd be trying to schedule a trip there.
It's gorgeous, super-interesting, and not the madness that is Moscow or other places in Russia. When I return to Russia I will be returning there. You should go there if at all possible.
...
This building sucks, but I agree that the problems will be from shoddy construction - not from marshlands. Fargo, ND is a "City on Stilts" - and things there are just fine. You just put down pylons until you hit stone or China, and then build on that.
posted by fake at 9:04 PM on November 28, 2006
It's gorgeous, super-interesting, and not the madness that is Moscow or other places in Russia. When I return to Russia I will be returning there. You should go there if at all possible.
...
This building sucks, but I agree that the problems will be from shoddy construction - not from marshlands. Fargo, ND is a "City on Stilts" - and things there are just fine. You just put down pylons until you hit stone or China, and then build on that.
posted by fake at 9:04 PM on November 28, 2006
Well THAT will sure change the look of the place.
I went to school in (what was then) Leningrad for a short time.
I happened to be staying in one of the taller hotels, and I'll always remember that it looked like this vast expanse of five story buildings.
I'll remember that, and also that when they ask you, "Do you want a drink?", they meant a whole bottle of vodka for yourself.
posted by Relay at 9:42 PM on November 28, 2006
I went to school in (what was then) Leningrad for a short time.
I happened to be staying in one of the taller hotels, and I'll always remember that it looked like this vast expanse of five story buildings.
I'll remember that, and also that when they ask you, "Do you want a drink?", they meant a whole bottle of vodka for yourself.
posted by Relay at 9:42 PM on November 28, 2006
a cold, blasted waste where the living will envy the dead
This thread is about St. Pete's, I think you are referring to Moscow, deafmute.
posted by Meatbomb at 10:34 PM on November 28, 2006
This thread is about St. Pete's, I think you are referring to Moscow, deafmute.
posted by Meatbomb at 10:34 PM on November 28, 2006
I want to have sex with a couple of those building designs. But I bet the St Petersburgians would disapprove of that as well.
posted by fenriq at 11:03 PM on November 28, 2006
posted by fenriq at 11:03 PM on November 28, 2006
Nobody has mentioned how terrifying it is that this place is called Gazprom city? Gazprom is just about the shadiest entity (I don't think it even deserves to be called a corporation) in the world at the moment. It's a state-run oil company with its own newspapers and TV channels, backed by Putin and the implicit assistance of the KGB.
They're like a living game of Illuminati.
posted by hoverboards don't work on water at 2:53 AM on November 29, 2006
They're like a living game of Illuminati.
posted by hoverboards don't work on water at 2:53 AM on November 29, 2006
In any case, there was never any engineering work done on that concept. It was by far a better-looking building than is now under construction.
That's the point though -- the design that was sold wasn't workable, and that's why it looks very different in implementation. All Liebeskind wanted to do is have something that was 1776 feet tall because of the symbolic value of that number, without worrying if it could even be done in real life.
posted by clevershark at 4:51 AM on November 29, 2006
That's the point though -- the design that was sold wasn't workable, and that's why it looks very different in implementation. All Liebeskind wanted to do is have something that was 1776 feet tall because of the symbolic value of that number, without worrying if it could even be done in real life.
posted by clevershark at 4:51 AM on November 29, 2006
Christ. I try not to hate capitalism, because I realize how necessary it is, but this kind of thing makes it hard.
That the city’s zoning laws forbid anything in that area higher than 48 meters, or 157 feet, appears to be no obstacle... Gazprom officials said they would have the law changed.
Fuck you, Gazprom, and fuck you, corrupt Russian officials sucking the dick of Gazprom, and fuck you, thuggish President Putin, and my condolences, ordinary Russians who have to survive it all.
I think it should be up to the St. Petersburgers to say what happens
Hahahahaha! (That was a joke, right?)
posted by languagehat at 5:07 AM on November 29, 2006
That the city’s zoning laws forbid anything in that area higher than 48 meters, or 157 feet, appears to be no obstacle... Gazprom officials said they would have the law changed.
Fuck you, Gazprom, and fuck you, corrupt Russian officials sucking the dick of Gazprom, and fuck you, thuggish President Putin, and my condolences, ordinary Russians who have to survive it all.
I think it should be up to the St. Petersburgers to say what happens
Hahahahaha! (That was a joke, right?)
posted by languagehat at 5:07 AM on November 29, 2006
Christ. I try not to hate capitalism, because I realize how necessary it is, but this kind of thing makes it hard.
Feel free to hate unconstrained capitalism.
posted by Atreides at 8:45 AM on November 29, 2006
Feel free to hate unconstrained capitalism.
posted by Atreides at 8:45 AM on November 29, 2006
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posted by SmileyChewtrain at 6:52 PM on November 28, 2006