Let's hear it for scouse tony
December 1, 2006 8:00 AM Subscribe
Here's a 26' docco on the Wigan Casino. Although the dancing in the short linked to is good, the real thing was crazier and faster and sweatier and more exciting....
I think this is all the footage of the Casino that exists.
posted by unSane at 8:43 AM on December 1, 2006
I think this is all the footage of the Casino that exists.
posted by unSane at 8:43 AM on December 1, 2006
That is top draw!! I'm gonna have to pull out the stops this weekend, and get my dancing shoes on.
posted by the_epicurean at 9:06 AM on December 1, 2006
posted by the_epicurean at 9:06 AM on December 1, 2006
Thanks. I think this is the first time I actually "get" what Northern Soul was about. It had zero impact in America, obviously. But even when I lived in the UK, I didn't really understand what the point was -- or why Brits seem so obsessed with 1970s soul.
posted by dw at 9:11 AM on December 1, 2006
posted by dw at 9:11 AM on December 1, 2006
Every Saturday night between 1973 and 1976, you could find me sitting on the balcony at Mr. M's. Then on Sunday, it was off to either the Cats Whiskers in Burnley or The Ritz in Manchester for the Sunday All-Dayers.
First time I ever went to Wigan, we were waiting outside in the queue, and a van drew up outside. The back doors popped open, and two guys started to sell the contents of a pharmacy that they'd just burgled.
Of course, the Casino didn't open until midnight, and closed at 8.00am, and the all-dayers would start at midday the following day, and go on until whenever the last bus back to Liverpool was, and so the only thing that was going to stop you from attending one of these soul marathons was the absence of good quality amphetamines, which were actually becoming fairly scarce by the early 70's.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 9:18 AM on December 1, 2006
First time I ever went to Wigan, we were waiting outside in the queue, and a van drew up outside. The back doors popped open, and two guys started to sell the contents of a pharmacy that they'd just burgled.
Of course, the Casino didn't open until midnight, and closed at 8.00am, and the all-dayers would start at midday the following day, and go on until whenever the last bus back to Liverpool was, and so the only thing that was going to stop you from attending one of these soul marathons was the absence of good quality amphetamines, which were actually becoming fairly scarce by the early 70's.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 9:18 AM on December 1, 2006
The chapter on Northern Soul in Last Night A DJ Saved My Life was incredibly helpful. A lot of the music doesn't really hit me like it should, but I am amazed that what amounted to a premature rave scene developed like it did.
posted by beaucoupkevin at 9:20 AM on December 1, 2006
posted by beaucoupkevin at 9:20 AM on December 1, 2006
"It had zero impact in America, obviously."
Well, except as Motown and Soul. But since I started working with a Detroit vinyl store, I've got this stuff coming out of my ears (and I love it).
posted by klangklangston at 9:26 AM on December 1, 2006
Well, except as Motown and Soul. But since I started working with a Detroit vinyl store, I've got this stuff coming out of my ears (and I love it).
posted by klangklangston at 9:26 AM on December 1, 2006
Can anybody identify any of the songs in the This England documentary?
I noticed:
Turning My Heartbeat Up -- The MVP's
What -- Judy Street
Rosemary What Happened -- Richard 'Popcorn' Wylie
but I'm sure there were a couple I recognized and couldn't remember.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 9:39 AM on December 1, 2006
I noticed:
Turning My Heartbeat Up -- The MVP's
What -- Judy Street
Rosemary What Happened -- Richard 'Popcorn' Wylie
but I'm sure there were a couple I recognized and couldn't remember.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 9:39 AM on December 1, 2006
I am amazed that what amounted to a premature rave scene developed like it did.
You know that some of the Northern Soul DJ's brought us House, I suppose? People like Mike Pickering started to play it at the Hacienda, and IIRC, it was Neil Rushton who first brought people like Derrick May and Kevin Saunderson to the UK.
I first heard Music in The State in Liverpool in 1987, and the DJ who was playing it there was a guy called Mike Knowler from Southport who I knew from fifteen years previously when we both used to go to Wigan.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 9:46 AM on December 1, 2006
You know that some of the Northern Soul DJ's brought us House, I suppose? People like Mike Pickering started to play it at the Hacienda, and IIRC, it was Neil Rushton who first brought people like Derrick May and Kevin Saunderson to the UK.
I first heard Music in The State in Liverpool in 1987, and the DJ who was playing it there was a guy called Mike Knowler from Southport who I knew from fifteen years previously when we both used to go to Wigan.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 9:46 AM on December 1, 2006
ya know, there was another Northern Soul from Wigan. It's a hard album to listen to on it's own unless you're really emotionally distraught [with the exceptions of On Your Own and History], but it's fascinating listening to it as the bridge between the Verve's early shoegaze / dream pop sound and the pop ballads that would bring them fame and break the band up.
Ya know, if you're in to that kinda stuff... I'm not, ya know... I just read it somewhere.
posted by trinarian at 9:47 AM on December 1, 2006
Ya know, if you're in to that kinda stuff... I'm not, ya know... I just read it somewhere.
posted by trinarian at 9:47 AM on December 1, 2006
Wow, look at all these soulies on MeFi! Hey, if anyone on here from Seattle is interested in this music scene, we do a great Northern Soul night the second saturday of each month at the Lo-Fi. It's called the Emerald City Soul Club, next one is Dec. 9th, and the link to our page is here!
posted by modernist1 at 10:53 AM on December 1, 2006
posted by modernist1 at 10:53 AM on December 1, 2006
Well, except as Motown and Soul.
Huh? Motown predates Northern Soul.
posted by dw at 11:09 AM on December 1, 2006
Huh? Motown predates Northern Soul.
posted by dw at 11:09 AM on December 1, 2006
Yeah, exactly. Northern Soul was a bunch of Motown and soul hits (and rarities) that found their way into Northern England jukeboxes. The vast majority of the music was American and had already made its impact in America. So mentioning that the Northern Soul scene didn't translate to the states is like saying that the UK never quite got Regis Philbin's Who Wants To Be A Millionaire.
posted by klangklangston at 11:45 AM on December 1, 2006
posted by klangklangston at 11:45 AM on December 1, 2006
Yeah, did I forget to say that it was awesome? Because it is.
posted by klangklangston at 11:54 AM on December 1, 2006
posted by klangklangston at 11:54 AM on December 1, 2006
Northern Soul was a bunch of Motown and soul hits (and rarities) that found their way into Northern England jukeboxes. The vast majority of the music was American and had already made its impact in America.
Hits? Northern Soul was (is) most certainly not about "hits". And it involved a lot more than just the music itself, anyway. It really was a British thing even though it was largely based on American music.
posted by modernist1 at 12:03 PM on December 1, 2006
Hits? Northern Soul was (is) most certainly not about "hits". And it involved a lot more than just the music itself, anyway. It really was a British thing even though it was largely based on American music.
posted by modernist1 at 12:03 PM on December 1, 2006
That's what makes the "zero impact" part odd. Other musical movements based on American music have been adapted and made their own, and then that new version get exported back to the US. You're seeing some of that now with Lady Sovereign starting to get some traction in the US.
"Northern Soul," though, remained a curiously British idea and movement, almost parochial. Maybe it wasn't that they were creating new music as much as playing music that had already been created. Maybe there just wasn't anything to export.
posted by dw at 1:21 PM on December 1, 2006
"Northern Soul," though, remained a curiously British idea and movement, almost parochial. Maybe it wasn't that they were creating new music as much as playing music that had already been created. Maybe there just wasn't anything to export.
posted by dw at 1:21 PM on December 1, 2006
Northern Soul had no effect on America?
How come on any given week in San Francisco I have the option of going to any number of "northern soul" nights? I'd say its one of the cities largest growing sub-cultures. Everybody seems to be into soul these days. Weird too that the songs that weren't considered hits (but that were popular on the original northern soul scene) have become played out in their own way...
Not the same thing surely but the music is the same isn't it?
By the way, the awesome instrumental track in the middle of the movie is "The Joker" by the Milestones.
posted by tokyo drifter at 2:28 PM on December 1, 2006
How come on any given week in San Francisco I have the option of going to any number of "northern soul" nights? I'd say its one of the cities largest growing sub-cultures. Everybody seems to be into soul these days. Weird too that the songs that weren't considered hits (but that were popular on the original northern soul scene) have become played out in their own way...
Not the same thing surely but the music is the same isn't it?
By the way, the awesome instrumental track in the middle of the movie is "The Joker" by the Milestones.
posted by tokyo drifter at 2:28 PM on December 1, 2006
Tokyo Drifter -- You seriously have any number of Northern soul nights in SF every weekend? I know of one monthly night in Oakland but I can't think of any others, though I remember some from years ago. What are the Northern soul clubs in the Bay Area right now?
posted by modernist1 at 5:32 PM on December 1, 2006
posted by modernist1 at 5:32 PM on December 1, 2006
Nice little movie, but the editing during the dance sequences lost it for me. Fred Astaire figured this out back in the '30s: When somebody's dancing, don't cut away. (Unless the dancer's crap, of course.)
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 8:19 PM on December 1, 2006
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 8:19 PM on December 1, 2006
they cut away in the dancing because the dancers couldn't consistently nail the moves
contrast with the documentary
the most exciting moves in NS dancing always seemed to me to be the incredible spins, rather than the handsprings etc, just because they seem so unique to the genre
NS dancing is all about speed. The drug.
posted by unSane at 9:16 PM on December 1, 2006
contrast with the documentary
the most exciting moves in NS dancing always seemed to me to be the incredible spins, rather than the handsprings etc, just because they seem so unique to the genre
NS dancing is all about speed. The drug.
posted by unSane at 9:16 PM on December 1, 2006
Modernist1, well every week not necessarily every weekend.
Some of it goes on during the week.
Lets see, you have the Messaround on mondays at Annies Social Club, you have 1964 at Edinburgh Castle on the 2nd and 4th wednesday of every month, you have Saturday Night Soul Night at the Elbo Room (first saturday of every month), you have Oldies night on fridays at the Knockout every other friday (and also on the last sunday of every month at the attic), you have Nightbeat at Annies on the 3rd saturday of every month, Hip City Soul at the Mile High Club in Oakland (which you might have been thinking of), also the Casanova's got two soul nights that happen on sundays (bit fuzzy on the exact timing of it though)...there's options. Plus there's the one-offs, the scooter rallys (though this is not so often admittedly), mod leaning nights, and hipster nights posing as soul nights. It's all the same people and they all more or less get their records from the same places...but i'll be honest and say that I played most of my cards with the first list.
If live music is more your taste, Harold Ray still plays in the city all the time and I think the guy from the Inciters (or someone who sounds like him) has cut some songs with Lord Loves a Working Man. Also, thought I would mention it too (with a name like modernist1 I can only assume) theres a really great soul jazz hammond b-3 combo that plays around town nowadays called the Nick Rossi set...not new but they just released a new album and have been playing a lot.
I think a strange thing is that because the scene is made up of a diverse crowd of people, people take it away with them. You can go to some night where they play dance punk or rap or whatever and then some guy will slip in a Gladys Knight or Edwin Starr into the track list. I don't really like those kinds of nights but its a strange social phenomenon seems to be happening regardless...you have people talking about northern soul (though I think a bunch of them just assume northern refers to the mason-dixon) that you would never assume to be into it and at least they are trying.
Also you have the problem that the dance floors are so crowded and tiny, you are going to have a problem trying to do anything seriously acrobatic (you'd probably knock someone in the face or something).
And also, as I said earlier, tastes change, so don't expect to hear any Tobi Legend...
posted by tokyo drifter at 11:47 PM on December 1, 2006
Some of it goes on during the week.
Lets see, you have the Messaround on mondays at Annies Social Club, you have 1964 at Edinburgh Castle on the 2nd and 4th wednesday of every month, you have Saturday Night Soul Night at the Elbo Room (first saturday of every month), you have Oldies night on fridays at the Knockout every other friday (and also on the last sunday of every month at the attic), you have Nightbeat at Annies on the 3rd saturday of every month, Hip City Soul at the Mile High Club in Oakland (which you might have been thinking of), also the Casanova's got two soul nights that happen on sundays (bit fuzzy on the exact timing of it though)...there's options. Plus there's the one-offs, the scooter rallys (though this is not so often admittedly), mod leaning nights, and hipster nights posing as soul nights. It's all the same people and they all more or less get their records from the same places...but i'll be honest and say that I played most of my cards with the first list.
If live music is more your taste, Harold Ray still plays in the city all the time and I think the guy from the Inciters (or someone who sounds like him) has cut some songs with Lord Loves a Working Man. Also, thought I would mention it too (with a name like modernist1 I can only assume) theres a really great soul jazz hammond b-3 combo that plays around town nowadays called the Nick Rossi set...not new but they just released a new album and have been playing a lot.
I think a strange thing is that because the scene is made up of a diverse crowd of people, people take it away with them. You can go to some night where they play dance punk or rap or whatever and then some guy will slip in a Gladys Knight or Edwin Starr into the track list. I don't really like those kinds of nights but its a strange social phenomenon seems to be happening regardless...you have people talking about northern soul (though I think a bunch of them just assume northern refers to the mason-dixon) that you would never assume to be into it and at least they are trying.
Also you have the problem that the dance floors are so crowded and tiny, you are going to have a problem trying to do anything seriously acrobatic (you'd probably knock someone in the face or something).
And also, as I said earlier, tastes change, so don't expect to hear any Tobi Legend...
posted by tokyo drifter at 11:47 PM on December 1, 2006
This was fascinating. Was the emphasis in the documentary on a socialist critique of British working class entertainment and labor conditions an explicit part of the Northern Soul experience? And the huge flaired trousers, what's up with that?
I'll do The Google, but if there's a Greil Marcus out there for this culture, I'd appreciate a link.
posted by Haruspex at 8:41 AM on December 2, 2006
I'll do The Google, but if there's a Greil Marcus out there for this culture, I'd appreciate a link.
posted by Haruspex at 8:41 AM on December 2, 2006
Too Darn Soulful by David Nowell is a good primer.
posted by the cuban at 9:51 AM on December 2, 2006
posted by the cuban at 9:51 AM on December 2, 2006
Tokyo - Thanks for the thorough response! Wow, Nick Rossi is still around? I remember them from...must be close to 10 years ago!
posted by modernist1 at 12:44 PM on December 5, 2006
posted by modernist1 at 12:44 PM on December 5, 2006
That's what makes the "zero impact" part odd. Other musical movements based on American music have been adapted and made their own, and then that new version get exported back to the US.
The influence of Northern Soul is a bit more subtle than the usual transatlantic give and take - the outcome of the Blackpool Mecca controversy was Hi-NRG, SAW productions were just Northern Soul with a Linn and shit vocalists, most dancey pop in the 80s was Northern Soul influenced (thanks to Ian Levine), &c.
You're seeing some of that now with Lady Sovereign starting to get some traction in the US.
Is she actually starting to do well in the US now? Hope so - nice girl, though a wee bit nuts (I did the warm up slot for her on a tour a couple of years ago).
posted by jack_mo at 3:10 AM on December 6, 2006
The influence of Northern Soul is a bit more subtle than the usual transatlantic give and take - the outcome of the Blackpool Mecca controversy was Hi-NRG, SAW productions were just Northern Soul with a Linn and shit vocalists, most dancey pop in the 80s was Northern Soul influenced (thanks to Ian Levine), &c.
You're seeing some of that now with Lady Sovereign starting to get some traction in the US.
Is she actually starting to do well in the US now? Hope so - nice girl, though a wee bit nuts (I did the warm up slot for her on a tour a couple of years ago).
posted by jack_mo at 3:10 AM on December 6, 2006
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posted by unSane at 8:34 AM on December 1, 2006