Well you ain't never caugh a rabbit, and you ain't no friend of mine!

January 24, 2007 9:05 AM

"For me, it's a great victory to have a big red box, the first red box in any studio feature." Move over, Todd Solondz, the previously Untitled Dakota Fanning Rape Project is headed for Sundance. This film is not yet rated.
posted by phaedon (68 comments total)

I don't understand why this is a big deal. It's a movie. She wasn't raped. There's no nudity. What is everyone so scared of? Seriously. She's an actress. She's old enough to know what rape is.

Jodie Foster turned out just fine.
posted by Bookhouse at 9:20 AM on January 24, 2007

Well, it's perfectly reasonable as a ploy to get publicity, especially in the "edgy" American indie film scene, and will surely get picked up and distributed. However, if you want pure provocation, may I suggest a little Lemon Incest?
posted by billysumday at 9:21 AM on January 24, 2007

Well, it's perfectly reasonable as a ploy to get publicity, especially in the "edgy" American indie film scene, and will surely get picked up and distributed.

In order: One, for the money. Two, for the show...
posted by hal9k at 9:23 AM on January 24, 2007

Jodie Foster turned out just fine.

Yeah, but look what happened to John Hinckley Jr.
posted by cortex at 9:23 AM on January 24, 2007

Yeah, but look what happened to John Hinckley Jr.

So, you're saying that this film might lead to someone shooting Bush?
posted by Bookhouse at 9:28 AM on January 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

Todd Solondz is arthouse's Howard Stern.

Not having seen the film, I've got nothing to say about Hounddog or Deborah Kampmeier.
posted by felix betachat at 9:29 AM on January 24, 2007

She might not catch any rabbits but she might catch a Brown Bunny with this role.
posted by spicynuts at 9:43 AM on January 24, 2007

I'm saying it might lead to someone doing too sloppy a job of it, Bookhouse. We can't have our wingnuts thinking about girls.
posted by cortex at 9:44 AM on January 24, 2007

Is it at ALL possible to have a thread on Metafilter that doesn't contain Bush-bashing?
posted by tadellin at 9:45 AM on January 24, 2007

This movie has nothing on Teeth, a horror film about Vagina Dentata.
posted by untitledalex at 9:52 AM on January 24, 2007

This is more of a generic assassination hijinx riff than Bush-bashing, really.

Anyway—I haven't seen Storytelling but for a few clips here and there, so I didn't realize there was a big red box. That's kind of fantastic, really—I was absolutely steamed at the post-production insertion of Foreground Figures in Eyes Wide Shut, back when that hit the theaters, and it's interesting to see such different tactics.

But, for Houndog—there is no box, there are no foreground figures, if I'm reading the director correctly. It was shot to spec from the getgo, not fixed after the fact to satisfy an uncompromising MPAA ratings board. The comparison is odd.
posted by cortex at 9:53 AM on January 24, 2007

Is it at ALL possible to have a thread on Metafilter that doesn't contain Bush-bashing?

What if we're just doing it to impress Dakota?

Can someone give me the gist of that Lemon Incest song above? It can't be as creepy as it seems to a non-French speaker.

can it?
posted by Bookhouse at 10:02 AM on January 24, 2007

Todd Solondz: "I don't think I was cut out to be a director."

Well, yeah.
posted by koeselitz at 10:05 AM on January 24, 2007

"So, you're saying that this film might lead to someone shooting Bush?
posted by Bookhouse at 9:28 AM PST on January 24 [+]"

Nah, they said they weren't going to show nudity, besides, Dakota's a little young.

*runs*
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 10:10 AM on January 24, 2007

But, for Houndog—there is no box, there are no foreground figures, if I'm reading the director correctly. It was shot to spec from the getgo, not fixed after the fact to satisfy an uncompromising MPAA ratings board. The comparison is odd.

Not sure why they would even worry about ratings, considering the absolute failure of pretty much every Sundance darling ever to actually make it to theatres or impress an audience made up of members of the public.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:14 AM on January 24, 2007

Blood Simple? Welcome to the Dollhouse? American Splendor?
posted by cortex at 10:18 AM on January 24, 2007

Yeah, god knows Garden State and Napoleon Dynamite did terribly at the box office and never really entered the public consciousness..........
posted by nathancaswell at 10:21 AM on January 24, 2007

Can someone give me the gist of that Lemon Incest song above?

The melody is lifted verbatim from a Chopin etude, so it's pretty lazy as far as songwriting goes. Looks like it's just a provocateur piece.
posted by kid ichorous at 10:21 AM on January 24, 2007

Business Data for
Napoleon Dynamite:

Budget
$400,000 (estimated)

Gross
$44,540,956 (USA)
posted by nathancaswell at 10:25 AM on January 24, 2007

drjimmy11: "Not sure why they would even worry about ratings, considering the absolute failure of pretty much every Sundance darling ever to actually make it to theatres or impress an audience made up of members of the public."

On the contrary, I'd say the whole point of Sundance is to enable the so-called 'independant' film industry to put a stamp of indie cred on its products, thereby helping to assure a profitable run at the box office. This has been true at least since 'Sex, Lies, and Videotape.'
posted by koeselitz at 10:27 AM on January 24, 2007

...not to mention Little Miss Sunshine (53 million for an 8 million dollar movie) and Hustle and Flow.

In fact, I'm going to go ahead and just say that that statment is wrong.
posted by nathancaswell at 10:32 AM on January 24, 2007

The Brothers McMullen did fairly well, as I recall.

Also, what koeselitz said.
posted by brundlefly at 10:33 AM on January 24, 2007

Also, thanks for posting about Teeth, untitledalex. Never heard of it, but it sounds a bit like Ginger Snaps with vaginas instead of werewolves.
posted by brundlefly at 10:35 AM on January 24, 2007

Hounddog just screened at Sundance; GreenCine has a roundup of reviews.
posted by muckster at 10:46 AM on January 24, 2007

You know, at first I was going to side with the filmmaker, and say that there was no good reason to protest this film, but then I read a comment in one article that stated "if you did this to a child in one of your home movies, you would be in jail". I think that's a valid point.
posted by tadellin at 11:01 AM on January 24, 2007

considering the absolute failure of pretty much every Sundance darling ever to actually make it to theatres

In fact, I'm going to go ahead and just say that that statment is wrong.

Agreed.

Sundance Film Festival Gears Up to Showcase the 'Next Big Thing'

Hollywood studio execs are setting up shop in the chilly streets of Park City, Utah, where a crop of aspiring stars are getting their first shot at fame.

With a track record of fostering breakout hits that include "Napoleon Dynamite," "Maria Full of Grace," "Memento" and "Reservoir Dogs," it's no surprise that competition is fierce for a spot on the Sundance screening schedule. Thousands of directors applied last fall for the event that begins today, but just a fraction earned a slot.

Not to mention "Super Size Me," etc. -- all commercial successes.
posted by ericb at 11:04 AM on January 24, 2007

Solondz is a wonderful director; I'm looking forward to this.

Bookhouse: Yeah, it's pretty creepy. She says "I love you more than anyone," he says "My flesh, my blood..." But I'm sure [Pepe Le Pew accent] eet's varry dee-con-struc-teeve! [end Pepe Le Pew accent] Incidentally, the French title, "Inceste de citron," is a pun on un zeste de citron (lemon peel).
posted by languagehat at 11:06 AM on January 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

Can someone give me the gist of that Lemon Incest song above? It can't be as creepy as it seems to a non-French speaker.

Yeah, it can. That's Serge Gainsbourg and his daughter Charlotte. Serge, always quite the provocateur,( remember "Je t'aime moi non plus", with Jane Birkin?) made this song near the end of his career, clearly intent on shocking everyone. He succeeded. It is full of very, and really quite witty French puns, and therefore almost impossible to translate. Those nice Wikipedia folk tried anyway: "The love that we will never make together is the most beautiful the most violent, the most pure, the most heady". Pretty much says it all, no?
By the way: this was not the last time Charlotte - now one of France's most famous actresses- flirted with incest: she played one of the title roles in The Cement Garden. Oh, and she sings as well: last year she made "5:55", which was, as far as I'm concerned, the best album of 2006.
posted by Siberian Mist at 11:07 AM on January 24, 2007

Lest we forget "Clerks," "In The Bedroom," "Open Water," "The Blair Witch Project," "The Motorcycle Diaries," and "Born Into Brothels" -- all of which debuted at Sundance and earned significant profits.
posted by ericb at 11:10 AM on January 24, 2007

I didn't care for her album, but I love Charlotte Gainsbourg as an actress. She played opposite Charlotte Rampling in one of the most underrated films of 2006, Dominik Moll's Lemming.
posted by muckster at 11:27 AM on January 24, 2007

considering the absolute failure of pretty much every Sundance darling ever to actually make it to theatres

Some good friends of mine just sold their little horror movie for $2 million to Magnolia Pictures. So hopefully this will be nationally distributed.
posted by NationalKato at 11:28 AM on January 24, 2007

Let's not forget how charming she was in Science of Sleep.
posted by billysumday at 11:28 AM on January 24, 2007

Oops - I mean Charlotte Gainsbourg. I mean that she was charming in Science of Sleep. Okay.
posted by billysumday at 11:29 AM on January 24, 2007

The director, Deborah Kampmeier, has made only one movie so far: Virgin, from 2003. I haven't seen it. I don't know how I feel about it, as I'm a bit tired of shock cinema.
posted by koeselitz at 11:29 AM on January 24, 2007

I don't really get the Solondz reference. His sexual content is almost always a painful nose-tweak which plays equally for cringes and laughs.

The Fanning movie seems to be a more straightforward attempt at storytelling. It seems like the only agenda it's pushing is its own.
posted by hermitosis at 11:32 AM on January 24, 2007

"if you did this to a child in one of your home movies, you would be in jail". I think that's a valid point.

If you blew up a car in your home movies, you could land in jail. And if you edit together your home movies to look like child-rape, you might get a call from the cops. One helpful defense might be to call your full-time child welfare agent to testify for you. Note that Dakota Fanning has one.

Pardon me for being blunt, but is the worry that perverts are going to masturbate to this movie? What exactly is the problem with an actress acting?
posted by Bookhouse at 11:33 AM on January 24, 2007

Was there this much controversy a decade ago when there was a similar scene in Bastard Out of Carolina?
posted by pinky at 11:33 AM on January 24, 2007

I don't really get the Solondz reference.

hermitosis, in Storytelling a character has explicit, full-frame sex. They placed a large, red box over most of the bodies for release.
posted by NationalKato at 11:38 AM on January 24, 2007

Yeah, DrJimmy, what in god's name are you talking about?!
posted by ghastlyfop at 11:39 AM on January 24, 2007

Ghastlyfop: about five years ago, in the early 2000s, a string of Sundance darlings (like Tadpole, Happy Texas) flopped. I think that's what caused the comment. But times have changed, and since then many, many movies have come out of Sundance and gone on to do very well, as many in this thread have pointed out.
posted by nathancaswell at 11:46 AM on January 24, 2007

Dakota Fanning Rape Project is a grindcore band name waiting to happen.
posted by The Straightener at 11:53 AM on January 24, 2007

Bookhouse, don't take my comment the wrong way, I am not a zealot. In fact, I am a firm believer that if you don't like a movie (or the things depicted therein), then don't go see it. I'm just saying that I believe that is a valid argument.
posted by tadellin at 11:58 AM on January 24, 2007

Thanks NationalKato.

More on that particular scene:

During the scene in this segment, which is to become the infamous sex scene, a giant red box censors our two characters. Solodnz noted during the Q&A that the MPAA had a problem with this scene for the R rating, but he had an ingenious loophole in his contract. If there was ever anything objectionable in the film, he could bleep it, for sound, or blotch it, for visuals. Apparently the studio who okayed the contract didn't actually think he'd put a large box in the middle of the screen to block out the objectionable item.
Solodnz said he took it a step further and made it red, to symbolize communist Russia, almost like an in-your-face to the ridiculous standards of the MPAA. The film premiered at the Cannes Film Festival without the red box, and I believe the European version doesn't contain it either. Solodnz said, "I always thought there'd be an American version, and a version for everywhere else." Lucky for him, the red box works for the film, because it comments on what can and can't be said in fiction, as well as makes a valid statement.

(my emphasis.)
posted by phaedon at 11:59 AM on January 24, 2007

I'm just saying that I believe that is a valid argument.

But an argument toward what? That this scene should not have been filmed? It can just be a valid argument, it has to be arguing a position.
posted by cortex at 12:05 PM on January 24, 2007

hermitosis, in Storytelling a character has explicit, full-frame sex.

Yes, NationalKato, I've seen "Storytelling" as well as the rest of Solondz's films.

Dakota Fanning is not having explicit, full-frame sex in her film. That's why I don't get the comparison.

In fact, if there was going to be a comparison, it would have to be with "Palindromes", Solondz's most recent film about a minor who becomes sexually active because she is determined to have a baby.
posted by hermitosis at 12:26 PM on January 24, 2007

For example, from the linked article:

"Exactly how I was going to film the rape scene was articulated quite specifically in the script, and her mother, her agent, and her teacher/child welfare worker were all present for the filming of the scene, which was carried out exactly as we discussed it. There was so much I had to hide [during filming]. I had to hid the fact that this girl is not naked. I had to hide the fact that there is not a boy on top of this girl having sex.
UPDATE: The movie may still be untitled. More after the jump.

One of the choices I made as a director is, I shot her face. I didn't shoot flesh against flesh, his leg touching her leg; I shot her face because I wanted to capture a soul going through this experience, not a body. The assumption that [Dakota] was violated in order to give this performance denies her talent."
posted by hermitosis at 12:31 PM on January 24, 2007

Dakota Fanning Rape Project is a grindcore band name waiting to happen.

Either that or sock puppet.
posted by brundlefly at 12:38 PM on January 24, 2007

hermitosis, I agree. From what I've read about the Fanning scene, and from what my friends at Sundance have said after seeing it, it's obvious they 'cheated' the scene to lessen Fanning's exposure to a rape 'simulation.'
posted by NationalKato at 1:03 PM on January 24, 2007

Solondz is a troll with a movie camera -- and a cheap one at that. there's no bad idea bad enough for him, he just dives in. his horrible "nigger" routine in the (stupidly) censored film was just that, it was n't even racist, it was desperate.

want to see shocking -- the kind that an actual genius gets involved in doing? watch Pasolini's Salò. Solondz is just an impotent provocateur who ran out of ideas after the third reel of his first movie -- good old Pier Paolo wouldn't have trusted him with carrying his bags.

one of Solondz's many problems is that, in his line of business, you have to use two weapons -- your reason, as pasolini himself said, and your sense of humanity. that's why, for example, Almodóvar is a master and Solondz is a troll. Almodóvar -- a master of shock tacticts himself -- is at heart a humanist. Von Stroheim, too. but then it's unfair to compare a little man to such masters. Solondz should stick to, say, cartoons -- he's ready to pick up the South Park franchise when the two guys who invented it will get tired of counting all that cash.


Dakota Fanning, instead, is one of those actors (Jack Black, for example) that I find completely unsefferable for no rational reason, and I just wish she'd go away
posted by matteo at 1:08 PM on January 24, 2007

she's unsufferable, too
posted by matteo at 1:11 PM on January 24, 2007

Tangential: the production company behind "Hound Dog" has been the subject of a pump-and-dump stock scam over the last few days, if the grainy JPEGs in my inbox are anything to go by.
posted by Hogshead at 1:12 PM on January 24, 2007

This is a weirdly written post. It took me awhile to figure out that the film that is its subject was not directed by Todd Solondz. A lot of the posters in this thread seem to be addressing the movie as if Solondz was the director.

It's not clear to me what he has to do with this at all.
posted by mr_roboto at 1:26 PM on January 24, 2007

Why are you telling people to watch Salo? There's not enough bleach in the world to scrub my gray matter clean of that one.
posted by Astro Zombie at 1:32 PM on January 24, 2007

Matteo, you forgot to add, "In my opinion" to your comment.

I don't know which quality you think Solondz is lacking, reason or humanity. I'm guessing the latter, which still makes no sense to me. How can anyone watch "Welcome to the Dollhouse" without sensing the humanity in the work? Most of the people I know who love it do so because they relate to Dawn in some way, usually because of their miserable childhood memories. And sure, for others it's a cheap easy laugh, but those people can get that anywhere. For every cheap laugh Solondz solicits, there is a more expensive one that requires the viewer to hurt a little bit. Again, something many people ruefully relate to.

Just because Solondz's sense of humanity runs toward subjects that others can only deal with by laughing at them or turning away in disgust doesn't mean that he is courting those reactions. In every one of his movies, I have experienced real heartbreak, sometimes over characters that I find otherwise completely repulsive. People are easy to shock, but turning that shock into anything more substantial takes real talent, and he's got it in spades, not to mention a brilliant eye for casting.

In my opinion, I mean.
posted by hermitosis at 1:34 PM on January 24, 2007

matteo writes Solondz is a troll with a movie camera -- and a cheap one at that.

Based on Welcome to the Dollhouse, I'd say you were flat wrong. That film "got" middle school better than any film-maker ever has.

Based on Happiness, I'd want to argue a bit.

Based on what's come after, yeah, you're pretty much spot on.

I fell really hard for a girl a few years back and decided I'd try to impress her a bit by taking her to an "edgy" film. So due to the circumstances of my viewing of "Happiness," maybe I'm hopelessly biased. Then I saw "Story-Telling" and I know I'm right.
posted by bardic at 1:36 PM on January 24, 2007

Was there this much controversy a decade ago when there was a similar scene in Bastard Out of Carolina?

Yup. Ted Turner was all upset. TNT refused to show it at first, or wouldn't show it uncensored, or something like that, if memory serves.
posted by scratch at 1:49 PM on January 24, 2007

It's not clear to me what he has to do with this at all.

because he's famous for involving child actors in films that deal with paedophilia? because the original poster mentioned him? because he has had censorship problem in the past and this Fanning film could have them, too?

the problem with this post, nobody has seen the movie, so there's nothing to discuss about that. but the post is still up, so we might as well slam our least favorite directors while we're at it.

you forgot to add, "In my opinion" to your comment

do you usually post other people's opinions instead of yours?

Based on Welcome to the Dollhouse, I'd say you were flat wrong

reading makes your eyes hurt, and gives headaches, so you're forgiven, but in my comment above I wrote "... who ran out of ideas after the third reel of his first movie". he got the first half hour right, then ran out of ideas, but momentum, and good acting, and more than a few repetitions allowed him to finish the movie pretty well. he hasn't had an idea since, just stunts.

one is of course to free to belong to Solondz's fan club. but the rest of us are free to point out why we don't.
posted by matteo at 1:57 PM on January 24, 2007

I think my post is odd in the sense that one might assume that the quote that starts it off camp from Kampmeier, Hounddog's director, and not Solondz. Hopefully that was cleared up by my judicious use of the following four words, immediately after and in this order: "Move over, Todd Solondz..."
posted by phaedon at 1:59 PM on January 24, 2007

btw, Dakota Fanning raped me when I saw "Hide and Seek." Robert Deniro joined in.
posted by bardic at 2:08 PM on January 24, 2007

*other head asplodes*
posted by cortex at 2:18 PM on January 24, 2007

maybe it's me, but back in the days that movie with Macaulay Culkin dying was more disturbing for me, maybe because I was a child and Home Alone was one of my favorites in the home video rental wishlist.
posted by darkripper at 4:01 PM on January 24, 2007

When the killer bees eat him?

That's one of the greatest scenes in cinematic history IMO.
posted by bardic at 4:02 PM on January 24, 2007

When I've seen it it was pretty scary (BTW, I was probably ten years old). It was like seeing Home Alone end with the two robbers beating the shit out of the poor kid.
It was totally unexpected and, I must admit, very well played. The first WTF? moment of my life.
posted by darkripper at 5:40 PM on January 24, 2007

Whither Anna Chlumsky?
posted by bardic at 6:09 PM on January 24, 2007

Andrew O'Hehir: "'Hounddog' should be boycotted. Not because it depicts the sexual exploitation of children but because it's a turgid, overripe mess."
posted by muckster at 6:53 PM on January 24, 2007

Couldn't they have just hired a midget?
posted by ikkyu2 at 8:53 PM on January 24, 2007

Dakota Fanning's Rape Scene: The Shooting Script [via]
posted by muckster at 9:08 PM on January 26, 2007

The red box thing didn't he just take that off the ifc i saw some movie on there with a sex scene and they rocked the box
posted by matimer at 2:31 AM on January 31, 2007